Judge Orders Sex-Change Operation for Prisoner

  • metta

    Posts: 39159

    Sep 05, 2012 2:13 AM GMT

    Judge Orders Sex-Change Operation for Prisoner


    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/09/04/judge-orders-sex-change-operation-for-federal-prisoner/
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    Sep 05, 2012 5:00 AM GMT
    Yeah. It's situations like that that make me glad that it's Not My Problem. I'll just deal with trying to hook up people who owe me money with people I own money to.
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    Sep 05, 2012 5:03 AM GMT
    whew and I thought tax dollars were being wasted. this is a relief.
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    Sep 05, 2012 6:54 AM GMT
    Lois: "Peter this all seems very expensive".
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    Sep 05, 2012 9:22 AM GMT
    We had a guy in Oz who killed a number of young women, and was sent to jail, then come out as someone wanting a sex change, but was refused access to our tax to pay for it; as it should be. After all is elective surgery; nothing more than a state of mind.
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    Sep 05, 2012 10:22 AM GMT
    kapow saidwhew and I thought tax dollars were being wasted. this is a relief.


    Ha, lol

    I can't say that I agree with this since it isn't a true life or death situation, the prisoner shouldn't be a candidate for an Elective surgery. Even as a Semi-elective surgery since It will not preserve the patient's life.

    what next every prisoner who feels inadequate can get butt implants or a nose job?

    I wouldn't have a problem with this if it was independently funded, as opposed to a state Funded. There are so many people out there with little access to proper healthcare but anyone in a prison is set to be taken care of for life? It Doesn't make sense.
  • t0theheights

    Posts: 428

    Sep 05, 2012 10:34 AM GMT
    metta8 said
    Judge Orders Sex-Change Operation for Prisoner


    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/09/04/judge-orders-sex-change-operation-for-federal-prisoner/


    This prisoner got what we all deserve -- access to the healthcare they need, not because they were lucky enough to be rich and able to afford it, but simply because they were a human being, deserving of dignity and respect.

    Upset that a prisoner has a right to the healthcare they need and you don't? Then blame republicans and conservative democrats for obstructing what this entire country needs: UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE! (You know, like EVERY other first-world nation has...)
  • metta

    Posts: 39159

    Sep 05, 2012 3:31 PM GMT
    t0theheights said
    metta8 said
    Judge Orders Sex-Change Operation for Prisoner


    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/09/04/judge-orders-sex-change-operation-for-federal-prisoner/


    This prisoner got what we all deserve -- access to the healthcare they need, not because they were lucky enough to be rich and able to afford it, but simply because they were a human being, deserving of dignity and respect.

    Upset that a prisoner has a right to the healthcare they need and you don't? Then blame republicans and conservative democrats for obstructing what this entire country needs: UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE! (You know, like EVERY other first-world nation has...)


    icon_smile.gif

    +1
    This is how I feel about it. It is not like getting a face lift to get rid of a few wrinkles. Not everyone that is transgenderd needs this operation, but according to the story, this is a life threatening situation. It needs to be looked at as a case by case need.

    "Despite the hormone treatment and psychotherapy, Kosilek has attempted to castrate himself and twice tried to commit suicide, according to court documents."

    I would like to have known more about the murder and the cause. Being that so many transgendered people are abused and murdered, I would have liked to known if it was self defense. I'm not trying to make excuses....I would just have liked to understand it more fully.
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    Sep 05, 2012 4:32 PM GMT
    So what? The government of Alberta funds sex-changes.
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    Sep 05, 2012 5:18 PM GMT
    if we had universal health insurance, no one would bat an eye at this... it's the the disparity in care for someone who is a convicted felon receiving better care than a non criminal citizen that is galling. but the issue then is not the criminal, but the broken healthcare system, of which this is just one of many many symptoms.

    there's also a lack of compassion for transgendered people in general, because most people including myself cannot identify. so we don't "get it"...

    combine that with a long history of people viewing convicts as working the system, and it's an easily flammable situation, but not so much if you break it out into its core components
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    Sep 05, 2012 5:42 PM GMT
    First sex change, then the death penalty... is this really justice? A sex change for the inmate is reward, in circumstances where he's supposed to be lacking any such luxuries cause of the crimes he's committed. This doesn't make any sense and contradicts penal system. Prisoners will learn nothing being given what they want, but little deserve.
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    Sep 05, 2012 5:46 PM GMT
    Aress saidSo what? The government of Alberta funds sex-changes.


    He would have probably never have been able to afford the operation if he hadn't killed his wife and been sent to prison where it is now being paid for him out of the pocket of tax payers. That's the 'so what'.
  • FireDoor211

    Posts: 1030

    Sep 05, 2012 5:51 PM GMT
    Give me a break, how can anyone think this is reasonable? The guy has a life sentence for murdering his wife, let him rot.
  • bmw0

    Posts: 588

    Sep 05, 2012 6:14 PM GMT
    I don't understand why anyone would allow this. I'm a firm believer in a loss of rights when you commit and are convicted of a crime. It's prison, not a vacation. Sheesh.. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Sep 05, 2012 6:52 PM GMT
    See, there are people in the U.S. with a guaranteed right to healthcare- prisoners.
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    Sep 05, 2012 6:57 PM GMT
    devil's advocate:

    probably, the fact that the convict has attempted self harm repeatedly is influencing this ruling. without that factor, i imagine it would have gone the other way.

    meaning, if it's a 20k procedure, it's cheaper than to drag it out forever. and if he succeeds at suicide, that can be a whole separate legal nightmare.

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    Sep 05, 2012 7:34 PM GMT
    Egro_Nadley said

    meaning, if it's a 20k procedure, it's cheaper than to drag it out forever. and if he succeeds at suicide, that can be a whole separate legal nightmare.



    Err, if he commits suicide that's that, what legal nightmare and sued by WHO would that entail? As far as the 20k his incarceration cost is on annual average $43,000 (www.cjpc.org/doc_doc_stats.htm), so I guess it's ultimately chump change. The cheapest thing would have been to execute him instead of giving him a life sentence without the possibility of parole. If he lives another 30 years it would cost taxpayers a minimum of $1,720,000, and that's not even accounting for inflation.
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    Sep 05, 2012 7:44 PM GMT
    Oh, and while a murderer is getting a free sex change, this woman is being charged $83,000 for being stung by a scorpion.

    http://news.yahoo.com/scorpion-sting-leaves-arizona-woman-huge-bill-225717487.html
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    Sep 05, 2012 7:54 PM GMT
    bmw0 saidI don't understand why anyone would allow this. I'm a firm believer in a loss of rights when you commit and are convicted of a crime. It's prison, not a vacation. Sheesh.. icon_rolleyes.gif

    I'm with you on this one. Expensive elective surgery at taxpayers expense, additional security costs afterwards to try and protect him/her, public paid funeral expenses when it all fails. Nope, I'm all for healthcare for all but when you're convicted of a crime, you lose the glamor and you get the basic coverage (you know, the same coverage that I get because working full time for 30 years doesn't allow me to have covered elected surgeries paid for by someone else!).

    This is bullshit! Once again, society picks up the tab and then everyone bitches because taxes are going up. Seriously?
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    Sep 05, 2012 8:12 PM GMT
    Egro_Nadley saiddevil's advocate:

    probably, the fact that the convict has attempted self harm repeatedly is influencing this ruling. without that factor, i imagine it would have gone the other way.

    meaning, if it's a 20k procedure, it's cheaper than to drag it out forever. and if he succeeds at suicide, that can be a whole separate legal nightmare.

    I am all for doing the humane thing and providing the healthcare necessary to keep an incarcerated person alive, but I don't see how this operation will do that. She will not wake up from this operation and suddenly be no longer suicidal. With or without this surgery, he will need counseling to deal with the suicidal tendencies. Provide that counseling, not the surgery.

    If a person with suicidal tendencies were to walk in from the street into an emergency room and did not have the ability to pay, most hospitals would provide some sort of care to deal with the suicidal tendencies, but no hospital is going to pay for sex-change surgery for a person with gender-identity issues who is not able to pay for it.
  • metta

    Posts: 39159

    Sep 05, 2012 8:24 PM GMT
    ^
    How do you know that she has not already been provided that counseling? I don't think that you can request such a surgery without counseling. The story is incomplete. And it is from the WSJ (owned by News Corp.) so you have to consider that it is skewed to the right to begin with.
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    Sep 06, 2012 1:32 PM GMT
    Ariodante said
    Egro_Nadley said

    meaning, if it's a 20k procedure, it's cheaper than to drag it out forever. and if he succeeds at suicide, that can be a whole separate legal nightmare.



    Err, if he commits suicide that's that, what legal nightmare and sued by WHO would that entail? As far as the 20k his incarceration cost is on annual average $43,000 (www.cjpc.org/doc_doc_stats.htm), so I guess it's ultimately chump change. The cheapest thing would have been to execute him instead of giving him a life sentence without the possibility of parole. If he lives another 30 years it would cost taxpayers a minimum of $1,720,000, and that's not even accounting for inflation.


    in all fairness, i didn't research this specific instance. i'm just imagining them saying to themselves: "well, you keep trying to kill yourself in ways that fail...each time costing X amount of money.....while you might succeed, it may just be cheaper to let you have this operation since you're insisting on it since clearly you know how to work the system and may leave behind someone who would create a legal bullshit storm around "wrongful death" or "cruel and unusual""

    but i'm not a legal expert at all.... i'm just envisioning someone weighing it out financially rather than morally
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    Sep 06, 2012 1:48 PM GMT
    I have so many things I want to say on this topic but I can't because of my role at my job. Great discussion so far.
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    Sep 06, 2012 6:13 PM GMT
    metta8 said^
    How do you know that she has not already been provided that counseling? I don't think that you can request such a surgery without counseling. The story is incomplete. And it is from the WSJ (owned by News Corp.) so you have to consider that it is skewed to the right to begin with.

    I am sure she has been provided counseling. And I am sure she will continue to be provided counseling, surgery or no surgery.
  • ac416

    Posts: 273

    Sep 06, 2012 7:17 PM GMT
    The Saddest thing in the article are all the hatefull ignorant comments readers posted. The only good one is mine (AC of course) . If people want to bitch about their tax dollars then go after the billions subsidizing the oil companies and corporations . Stop bein selfish pricks and care about another human beings mental health. I don't think any of us could deal with a life of being born in the wrong body. Thank god for this judge
    - and besides, not providing proper medical care in prison just ends up costin the state more with addtional costs down the road.