The Myth of the Masculine Gay Man

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    Sep 07, 2012 2:50 AM GMT
    I accidentally found this article just now. It sums up what I was trying to say in another thread about masculinity in gay men. Thought you guys might find it interesting to discuss. http://www.altdaily.com/blogs/news-blogs/opinion-blogs/the-myth-of-the-masculine-gay-man.html
  • LJay

    Posts: 11612

    Sep 07, 2012 4:08 AM GMT
    My first reading makes me think it needs some editing.
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    Sep 07, 2012 4:28 AM GMT
    I disagree. I think it's true on many levels and also based off of my analysis of others. The theories behind the assertions seem to be valid enough on different points. Being "a man" is not a 2012 invention. The wheel has not been reinvented, just modified and changed over the years and centuries. The same misogynistic attitudes that are held about women are held against men-- depending on the generation, I suppose. I can't say the ideas are fully supported in Bieber's generation but I know they are increasingly more than true with Generation Y and before.
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    Sep 07, 2012 4:36 AM GMT
    What a poorly written article. Sounds like something I would think up on the fly because I had an assignment due the next day.


    It's like a Monet. Looks good from afar, but it's a big ol mess when you really get a good look at it.....
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    Sep 07, 2012 4:38 AM GMT
    Looks like I will be donating my pesetas elsewhere.
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    Sep 07, 2012 4:42 AM GMT
    Cranky_No_More said
    jmusmc85 said
    It's like a Monet. Looks good from afar, but it's a big ol mess when you really get a good look at it.....

    Oooh, just when you thought he's only an idiot, turns out he's an art critic too.


    tumblr_lr4u54uD2D1qavfsa.png
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    Sep 07, 2012 4:59 AM GMT
    Cranky_No_More said
    ParadiseLost saidI disagree. I think it's true on many levels and also based off of my analysis of others. The theories behind the assertions seem to be valid enough on different points. Being "a man" is not a 2012 invention. The wheel has not been reinvented, just modified and changed over the years and centuries. The same misogynistic attitudes that are held about women are held against men-- depending on the generation, I suppose. I can't say the ideas are fully supported in Bieber's generation but I know they are increasingly more than true with Generation Y and before.

    No, the part that's stupid is that 'masculine' men have a harder time coming out? Seriously?
    And how about that claim that it's the 'masculine' homos who make the straight boys nervous?

    Stupid through and through.


    "The reason that homosexual men who don’t fall into the common “girly-man” stereotype do not come out is because of an intense fear of being excommunicated from their social group. Suddenly, once ‘out,’ they are no longer a man. They aren’t a girl, either, or the subcategory of womanhood where we like to put our gay men."

    I think what the author -may- have been trying to say is people are who have always been masculine and have never been as anything else may fear that rejection because the group that they are surrounded by expect them to be 'masculine, strong, dominant' which is exactly antithetical to the traditionally held belief of what a gay man is supposed to be-- a bottom-loving drag queen who portrays himself in weak and effeminate sort of way. To these people, the ideologies are a raging contradiction. "How can you be gay AND masculine!? Impossible!"

    In your defense, I'd say that this is not so much of an issue in certain Westernized societies but then again, the article was written nearly 3 years ago. There have been some obvious changes made advancing a more progress and tolerant approach of gay men and what their identities are like.

    I don't know about the claim how "masculine homos that make straight men nervous."

    "Modern society has evolved to such a hyper-socialized, hyper-labeling place. We find safety in the blacks and whites of life. The gray areas–the natural domain of the masculine gay men–scares us. And it’s just this oppressive influence, this gravitational pull to the edges–that does make it so difficult for a person to come out, especially if the person is popular. Imagine what kind of ridicule the high school quarterback would suffer if everyone knew that he was gay. What would he do if all of his friends ostracized him? It’s not like he can be expected to go hang out with the fairies in the drama club. And it’s not as if they’d want him anyway."

    I think this fear is a bit dated and may not apply as much in 2012 America; however, what I gather from this excerpt seems to portray these intolerant and homophobic men fearful of the masculine variant. No longer can they point fingers and demonize the camp ass goblin as the only form of homosexuality. They see (in their eyes) a new contender to challenge contemporary views of what a homosexual is in the eyes of heterosexual; this man who is muscular, masculine, dominant and needs not rely on effeminate behavior to convey himself. This is/was terrifying to these homophobic men because it makes them wonder "Well, I've known Dude A all my life and he always acted like such a Jock. If he's gay... does that mean I am too?"

    As I've said before once, We Fear what we Hate and we Hate what we Fear.

    The article explains no one wants to be ostracized and it's in our nature to want to be wanted, to be included. We're social mammals and as such we want to be accepted. Homosexuals were (and still are in some ways) seen in a negative light by society but especially by homophobic men. It's as stigmatizing as HIV to these fellows.

    The author contends "being a flaming queer" is easier probably because it's what heterosexuals normally assume homosexuals to act like-- vibrantly flamboyant men who hoot their junk in gay parades and become an eyesore, clothing wise. He concludes with: "And it is much easier to acquiesce to the inequality of the world that you live in than it is to chuck it all away."

    Because it is. It's absolutely true. People DO find it easier to simply conform and accept the cards they are dealt by society.

    Also, what's the deal with the donation thing? icon_neutral.gif It's not for the writer. It's for the company, Alt Daily.
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    Sep 07, 2012 5:07 AM GMT
    Fear is fear bro. Nobody wants to be rejected.
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    Sep 07, 2012 5:22 AM GMT
    lol Scruff is getting no love in this thread.
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    Sep 07, 2012 5:25 AM GMT
    Scruffy got served

    sci-fi-fantasy-harry-potter-snape-got-se
  • whytehot

    Posts: 1165

    Sep 07, 2012 5:28 AM GMT
    the guy in the article has a pretty gay face, and a pretty tight tanktop
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    Sep 07, 2012 5:29 AM GMT
    Cash -1

    ScruffyBICTH- 0

    You should just leave...

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    Sep 07, 2012 5:30 AM GMT
    Scruffypup saidI accidentally found this article just now. It sums up what I was trying to say in another thread about masculinity in gay men. Thought you guys might find it interesting to discuss. http://www.altdaily.com/blogs/news-blogs/opinion-blogs/the-myth-of-the-masculine-gay-man.html


    Interesting.

    For all of your posturing, prosthelytizing, posing and dirty-overall-wearing attempts at tradiditional Masculine legitimacy -- you continually FAIL.

    The article is dim-witted, common, poorly-stated and without merit.

    you TRY too hard scruffy -- and it shows again.

    you can eat bricks and pound your dick 40 times a day to prove your Masculinity if you want.

    BUT - 'YOU" - are still genuflecting and appologizing. And hoping it will be OK that you like Dick.

    It ain't your clothes...

    or the way you speak...
    or the music you listen to...that makes you a Man or Masculine.

    It is the way You approach the world.

    It is about the way You treat the MEN and Women You love.


    Sorry scruffy... but once AGAIN, yer coming across like a whiney little bitch.

    And an appologetic one at that.





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    Sep 07, 2012 5:50 AM GMT
    I LOVE YOU
    CASH!!!
    XOXOXO

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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 07, 2012 5:54 AM GMT
    How does one accidentally find an article?
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    Sep 07, 2012 5:56 AM GMT
    nicodegallo saidLooks like I will be donating my pesetas elsewhere.


    What's a pesetas?
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    Sep 07, 2012 5:57 AM GMT
    GigoloAssassin said
    nicodegallo saidLooks like I will be donating my pesetas elsewhere.


    What's a pesetas?


    Spain's former currency and perhaps future currency, lol.
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    Sep 07, 2012 6:00 AM GMT
    nicodegallo said
    GigoloAssassin said
    nicodegallo saidLooks like I will be donating my pesetas elsewhere.


    What's a pesetas?


    Spain's former currency and perhaps future currency, lol.


    I thought it was some dish. I'm hungry now. icon_smile.gif
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    Sep 07, 2012 6:01 AM GMT
    xrichx saidHow does one accidentally find an article?


    Maybe while she was at the Planned Parenthood waiting room?
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    Sep 07, 2012 6:03 AM GMT
    jmusmc85 said
    xrichx saidHow does one accidentally find an article?


    Maybe while SHE was at the Planned Parenthood waiting room?


    icon_lol.gif!
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    Sep 07, 2012 6:42 AM GMT
    Scruffypup saidI accidentally found this article just now. It sums up what I was trying to say in another thread about masculinity in gay men. Thought you guys might find it interesting to discuss. http://www.altdaily.com/blogs/news-blogs/opinion-blogs/the-myth-of-the-masculine-gay-man.html


    painful to read and you know he has a faggy pinched voice to boot.
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    Sep 07, 2012 6:43 AM GMT
    GigoloAssassin said
    nicodegallo said
    GigoloAssassin said
    nicodegallo saidLooks like I will be donating my pesetas elsewhere.


    What's a pesetas?


    Spain's former currency and perhaps future currency, lol.


    I thought it was some dish. I'm hungry now. icon_smile.gif


    mmmmm.......dish..
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    Sep 07, 2012 7:22 AM GMT
    what other thread is scruff talking about?
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    Sep 07, 2012 7:57 AM GMT
    I think most of this article speaks the truth of about 15 to 20 years ago, and even at that, it is overly generalized, because there have been so called, "masuline" men out of the closet for as long as I have been alive.

    There is one line that is particularly suspect.

    "To admit that gay men can be manly men–and not some effeminate subspecies–makes all men ask themselves, Could it be me next?"

    I do not think that a straight man confronted with this problem would have this reaction unless they already had some fantasies about homosexual contact and then would they be really "straight".

    Also, this guy has a view about the societal view of women that is held by only a small minority of men and women today.

    Like so many other gay men, he has not woken up to the fact that the majority of gay men are "masculine" and many of them have already come out.
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    Sep 07, 2012 8:51 AM GMT
    Believe it or not, some guys actually go through what this article talks about. There's a 'straight trap' that some masculine gay guys fall into. They meet new guy friends and they don't know quite yet if they are ready to 'come out' to them. Then they hear these new straight friends make a few comments about gay people, and the fear suddenly surfaces of how to tell them... time passes and you realize that shit, everyone thinks I'm straight now and it would be super awkward to come out. Shit. You tell yourself that you'll do it 'when the time is right', but you end up being their wingman at the bars and playing paintball on the weekends. Shit. You're in a 'straight trap'.

    The last guy I dated was a little feminine and very out/proud. My masculinity really bothered him. I wish I was like him, though. I wish I was feminine so I wouldn't ever fall into the trap and I wouldn't always have to have 'the talk' and worry about people running away from me. I grew up in a small town, so I know people I care about will run. Okay, rant over. I just woke up, so that's my excuse.