Gay Junior College Football Player Booted from Team for "Distraction" (2015 UPDATE: Back in news for all the wrong reasons)

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    Sep 12, 2012 12:44 PM GMT
    (EDIT: Skip to last page, to see where Jamie is now... or at least, to see someone's legit concern as to where he is now.)


    Are you ready for a crapstorm?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/junior-college-linebacker-says-dismissed-because-sexual-orientation-005857698--ncaaf.html

    Graham 'Dr. Saturday' Watson (Yahoo! Sports)Jamie Kuntz started to tear up when he was told that he had been dismissed from the North Dakota State College of Science football team on Sept. 3; in the freshman linebacker's mind, he had done nothing wrong.

    But two days earlier, Kuntz's coach, Chuck Parsons, had pulled him off the team bus and asked him about a "distraction" that had occurred in the press box during the Wildcats blowout loss to Snow College during the Mile High Shootout in Pueblo, Colo.

    By the end of the day on Sept. 3, Kuntz was packing up his locker and he believes it's because of his sexual orientation.

    Kuntz, 18, had been injured much of fall camp and had only practiced a couple days prior to the trip. So, the coaching staff asked him to film the game from the press box. While in the press box, Kuntz invited his 65-year-old boyfriend (DAYUMM'S EDIT icon_eek.gif Not that there's anything wrong with that! Age of consent is 18 is N.D., so he can now go after whatever gender of cougar he desires), who lives in Colorado, to join him to watch the game. During the second half of the 63-17 blowout, Kuntz took a minute away from the camera to kiss his boyfriend. The kiss was caught by some of Kuntz's teammates and word started to spread.

    (snip)

    "He pulls me off the bus to talk to me and he said, 'What was going on in the press box?'" Kuntz told Yahoo! Sports. "So I was like, 'What are you talking about? I don't know what you're talking about.' I was playing stupid. And he goes, 'People said that you were distracting them the whole game.'

    "At that point I kind of knew, but when he said the whole game, I felt like he was trying to put the loss on me. When you guys lose by 40 points, there's no way a distraction like that is going to throw a whole team off in the second half. So, when he said that, I was like, 'Oh nothing, it was just my grandpa up there with me.'"

    Kuntz eventually came clean with his coach when the team got back to Wahpeton, N.D., and apologized for lying. He said he expected a punishment, but didn't think he would be dismissed.

    "I asked him if I could get a suspension or any extra conditioning because I thought it was a little rash for him to be kicking me off for this," Kuntz said. "And he said, 'Um, no. We just decided it's too big of a distraction.' So, I didn't want to bring [the kiss] up. You're not going to tell the truth anyway. I don't know if he's homophobic. I can't tell in his heart, but what happened, in my experience, I was getting cheated.

    "To be honest, I thought he was going to kind of leave the door open for it to be my decision, what I wanted to do. But he said I was too big of a distraction to have on the team still, so I just grabbed my stuff and left."

    Parsons gave Kuntz a letter outlining the reasons for his dismissal and cited the school's player's manual. In the letter, he wrote: "Your actions on the evening of 9/1/2012, while representing NDSCS and the NDSCS football program, reflected poorly on the program. Your decisions and conduct on the night in question clearly fall into the "Conduct deemed detrimental to the team" category. Your actions/conduct during the game was a distraction to your teammates who were looking to the press box as the game was being played. This decision was arrived at solely on the basis of your conduct during the football game and because you chose not to be truthful with me when I confronted you about whom else was in the box with you. Any conduct by any member of the program that would cause such a distraction during a game would warrant the same consequences."

    Kuntz, who is from Dickinson, N.D., acknowledged that the kiss was more than a "peck" but said it wasn't a "hardcore makeout session."

    "I still had to film the game," he said.

    And Kuntz had a good reason for initially lying. His sexuality was still largely a secret. With the exception of a couple close friends, Kuntz hadn't told anyone he was gay, not even his mother. He said even if he had wanted to discuss his sexuality with the NDSCS football team, he never felt comfortable doing so because of jokes and comments his teammates made about homosexuals in the past. But what was worse, Kuntz said, is that he was forced to tell his mother about his sexuality because he didn't want to lie about why he had left school.

    "It was awful," Kuntz said of coming out that way. "Especially being a football player and trying to make a name for myself. It was one of those things where I wanted to do it on my own time, not when all this happened."

    Attempts to reach Parsons were unsuccessful. Instead, the school maintained in a statement that Kuntz, who was celebrated by the school when he chose NDSCS (a junior college that plays in the Midwest Football Conference) despite a scholarship to play fullback at North Dakota State, was dismissed for a violation of team rules and nothing else. The school also offered to honor Kuntz's scholarship, but Kuntz declined.

    (snip)

    The football team rules state that lying to coaches is a dismissible offense.
    Still, Kuntz said he believes he was dismissed because of his sexual orientation. He claimed players on the team had committed infractions such as underage drinking and fighting, which he considered more egregious offenses, and were not dismissed.

    "To be honest, I would have rather had coach Parsons just say, don't do this again," Kuntz told Yahoo! Sports. "[Say], when we go on road trips, you can't be in contact with anyone other than your family. I mean, there's things he could have done that I would have rather had done. Now that it's happened, I'm embracing it, but I'd rather be on that team working really hard toward a bigger school."

    Kuntz also said he didn't think his boyfriend's age had anything to do with it and that if he had been seen kissing an older woman, "it would have been one of those things where I would have been congratulated on it."

    Kuntz said he thought about bringing legal action against NDSCS, but wasn't sure how to go about it. Now, he's just worried about what the story and the dismissal might do to his football future. He applied to the NCAA
    Clearinghouse and said he's going to reach out to a few FBS schools(DAYUMM'S EDIT: FBS = the big-dog college football programs, formerly called "Division I") about becoming a preferred walk-on. (snip)

    "Usually the players at D-I schools are from bigger cities and they're open to more things," Kuntz said.

    "I think [being gay] might draw some schools away from me, obviously, but some schools might be interested. Whatever school I go to, people are all going to be following my story and it's going to bring a lot of things — positive and negative — but there's at least one D-I school out there that's willing to take a chance."
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    Sep 12, 2012 12:51 PM GMT
    dayumm said...
    "He pulls me off the bus to talk to me and he said, 'What was going on in the press box?'" Kuntz told Yahoo! Sports. "So I was like, 'What are you talking about? I don't know what you're talking about.' I was playing stupid. And he goes, 'People said that you were distracting them the whole game.'

    ...So, when he said that, I was like, 'Oh nothing, it was just my grandpa up there with me.'"

    ...


    tumblr_lq2plfcAJV1qht847.gif
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    Sep 12, 2012 12:53 PM GMT
    On the dismissal, I'll be the bad guy here and say I'm mostly with the coach on this. It's his right to dismiss players who lie to him, especially those who lie about fraternizing with unauthorized adults while on football duty.

    When I say, "unauthorized," it's not about the coach authorizing who his players love, it's about knowing whether the stranger is a media member with credentials to be in the press box alongside his player. Is it a media guy? A boyfriend? A sports agent that might get the team in hot water if he's caught talking to his players?

    Sorry, kid, but you can't be up in the press box while on-duty in a road game smooching somebody on the lips, then, when asked about it, say it was just your "grandpa." That wasn't even fair to Mr. Cougar who drove out to see you. Any legal pursuits would be fruitless and I think Kuntz is realizing that.

    The "distraction" stuff is bullpucky, though, as far as the other players go. They might get trounced a bit less if their focus is with the play on the field and not on the foreplay in the media room.

    Yet it doesn't help that the young man clearly had his mind not only on his manfriend during the game, but "bigger schools" in "bigger cities" when he hasn't even played a down yet with the JC school he's supposed to be representing. Part of the article I snipped out has him rattling off names of major schools he thinks should let him walk on. In my opinion, nobody seems more "distracted" here than Kuntz himself.

    Kuntz' expectations about the reactions and reprimands he should have received from his coach are overreaching and short-sighted. "[Say], when we go on road trips, you can't be in contact with anyone other than your family," he suggests. Well, isn't your self-stated "grandpa" your family???

    Especially in this new post-DADT age, maybe it's time we stop using our cloaked sexuality, which the author asserts is "a good reason," as an excuse for lying, at least to people in positions of authority? At the risk of giving his teammates and/or coaching staff too much credit, I suspect his smooching someone thrice his age, as a newly-consenting adult, set off a few freak-out-o-meters much more than the gender of his romantic interest. If Kuntz was going to stay an LB on the DL, his concocted ploy failed, and he should have simply owned up to it rather than try to cover it up with a tall tale.
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    Sep 12, 2012 1:01 PM GMT
    METAMORPH said
    dayumm said...
    "He pulls me off the bus to talk to me and he said, 'What was going on in the press box?'" Kuntz told Yahoo! Sports. "So I was like, 'What are you talking about? I don't know what you're talking about.' I was playing stupid. And he goes, 'People said that you were distracting them the whole game.'

    ...So, when he said that, I was like, 'Oh nothing, it was just my grandpa up there with me.'"

    ...


    tumblr_lq2plfcAJV1qht847.gif


    lol Exactly! The young man was literally "playing stupid." "I was sucking face with my granpa for a minute... yeah, that should clear things right up!"
  • ThatSwimmerGu...

    Posts: 3755

    Sep 12, 2012 1:08 PM GMT
    Ok in a few words a 65 year old and an 18 year old is like no... No no! Weird . Wrong. Gross.
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    Sep 12, 2012 1:31 PM GMT
    The dismissal could have been due to his sexual orientation, but the issue got blurred and the coach may have gotten the legitimate reason he needed when the player lied. There's also an ick factor here with the 65-year-old. While not illegal, that's an uncomfortable image that won't win this player many supporters in that very conservative community.

    Wahpeton is a place I know well, from my 11 years in North Dakota. It's on the southeast border with Minnesota, farmland all around, a very small town of about 7,000. I used to visit the campus regularly, a 2-year college that's no bigger than many high schools, enrollment around 3,000. It's really little more than a technical school.

    The school should indeed have celebrated when this guy chose them over NDSU in Fargo, a full university with enrollment of 14,000. There is absolutely nothing to do in Wahpeton, except drive an hour north to Fargo. Oh, and wait for the annual Spring floods from the Red River, which usually interrupt classes for a week. No wonder he was kissing his "grandfather" - you would, too, in that gawd-forsaken place.
  • O5vx

    Posts: 3154

    Sep 12, 2012 1:37 PM GMT
    NormalGuy93 saidOk in a few words a 65 year old and an 18 year old is like no... No no! Weird . Wrong. Gross.


    LAMO! This was what was my mind the whole time.
  • O5vx

    Posts: 3154

    Sep 12, 2012 1:41 PM GMT
    ART_DECO saidThe dismissal could have been due to his sexual orientation, but the issue got blurred and the coach may have gotten the legitimate reason he needed when the player lied. There's also an ick factor here with the 65-year-old. While not illegal, that's an uncomfortable image that won't win this player many supporters in that very conservative community.

    Wahpeton is a place I know well, from my 11 years in North Dakota. It's on the southeast border with Minnesota, farmland all around, a very small town of about 7,000. I used to visit the campus regularly, a 2-year college that's no bigger than many high schools, enrollment around 3,000. It's really little more than a technical school.

    The school should indeed have celebrated when this guy chose them over NDSU in Fargo, a full university with enrollment of 14,000. There is absolutely nothing to do in Wahpeton, except drive an hour north to Fargo. Oh, and wait for the annual Spring floods from the Red River, which usually interrupt classes for a week. No wonder he was kissing his "grandfather" - you would, too, in that gawd-forsaken place.


    Mahan. My grandparents is long gone, hahahaha
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    Sep 12, 2012 1:47 PM GMT
    Yeh and people get all weird and judgmental when there's even just 10 years' difference in age in a previous thread
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    Sep 12, 2012 1:58 PM GMT
    What an unfortunate last name for a gay man.
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    Sep 12, 2012 2:06 PM GMT
    For me, it depends on what "took a minute to kiss his boyfriend" means. Did he just lean over and give him a little peck or did they start sucking face?

    If it was just a peck, I see no problem. I can easily imagine a straight guy leaning over and giving his girlfriend a kiss. And nobody would say anything.

    But if even a straight couple started sucking face, I wouldn't be surprised if people around them would be distracted.

    Now the age difference could be the real distraction here. An 18 yo kissing a 65 yo might have blown the socks off of everybody. But should it have? Sure it is unusual in our culture. But does that make it wrong? Gay relationships used to be off the charts not too long ago.

    The lie to the coach is BS and of no consequence. It didn't cause the distraction. If there hadn't been a buzz going on the coach wouldn't have asked in the first place.

    I think the whole thing is cuz the team had its collective ass handed to it on a plate, evidently.
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    Sep 12, 2012 2:07 PM GMT
    Assoicated Press' version of the same story (includes pics of Kuntz for what it's worth):

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gay-nd-football-player-says-221046333--spt.html

    APKuntz doesn't believe he was dismissed just for lying.

    ''I know if it was a girl in the press box, or even an older woman, nothing would have happened,'' he said. ''If it was an older woman, I would have probably been congratulated for it from my teammates.''


    No, Kuntz. I don't care if that was Meryl Streep up there with you. Your teammates' first reaction about Mrs. Robinson would not be high-fives. Stop that foolish line of thinking. Stop it, right now.

    APKuntz said he told his mother that he was gay at the same time he told her he was kicked off the team.

    ''I'm struggling with it,'' said Rita Kuntz, choking back tears. ''I love Jamie and I'm proud of him, but I know what the school did was wrong.''

    Rita Kuntz said she has accepted that her son is gay, but she believes he was taken advantage of by his boyfriend, who is more than three times her son's age.

    Jamie Kuntz said he met the man online more than a year ago. Kuntz said the man, whom he would not identify, lives in Colorado and the two have met there a few times in recent months.


    "Met the man online more than a year ago" means (a) he was in contact with the grizzled gentleman in question while BELOW the age of consent in the state where he lived. (let the NAMBLA pearl-clutching begin!) and (b) they probably did not meet online while striking up conversations in Denver Broncos chatrooms or sharing baking recipes. More likely, Kuntz did the old "I can pass for 18!" and clicked "yes" on a dating/adult site.

    I was dealing with an unrelated case on another site, involving an adult male who had sex with an underage teen that pretended to be 18 online but allegedly fessed up right before they had sex (short story: the 'twink' acquires HIV, adult goes to jail and gets his face and stories of his professed -- and videotaped -- serial twink-f*cking without condoms in the paper, where he was then recognized by members of the online website he also fooled around in).

    I am displaying my utter ignorance here, but my question is this: if we're trying to say it's okay to be GLBT in our tween/teenage years, in this digital age where kids have access to almost everything, what are the online avenues for these kids to communicate with others their age, in ways that don't immediately devolve into p0rn and hookups? Is there no recourse for them, other than to lie about their age on sites like RealJock and A4A and Grindr?

    If I'm 14, know I am straight, and go online to chat, there are certainly child-friendly places to go to chat with others. If I'm 14, know I am bisexual, and go online, where do I go that is NOT an adult-oriented site to find others like me? Because it's the stories of these kids and dumb adults making dumb decisions after connecting online that is persistently putting consenting GLBT adults in a bad light.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Sep 12, 2012 2:11 PM GMT
    So much wrong here I don't know where to start. Suffice to say that inviting the 65 year old BF into the press box while he filmed the game was probably not the best idea. The nearly 50 year age difference is another matter altogether. icon_eek.gif
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    Sep 12, 2012 2:12 PM GMT
    dayumm saidAssoicated Press' version of the same story (includes pics of Kuntz for what it's worth):

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gay-nd-football-player-says-221046333--spt.html

    APKuntz doesn't believe he was dismissed just for lying.

    ''I know if it was a girl in the press box, or even an older woman, nothing would have happened,'' he said. ''If it was an older woman, I would have probably been congratulated for it from my teammates.''


    No, Kuntz. I don't care if that was Meryl Streep up there with you. Your teammates' first reaction about Mrs. Robinson would not be high-fives. Stop that foolish line of thinking. Stop it, right now.

    t.


    I disagree. I know a lot of straight guys in their 20s and all fantasize about bagging a "cougar". I suspect on this he is right. If he had some cheerleader or MILF up there, he would have been envied. Betty White, which seems more his taste, maybe not.
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    Sep 12, 2012 2:12 PM GMT
    Could his smile be any gayer? ... Not that that's a bad thing. Just saying.
  • bad_wolf

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    Sep 12, 2012 2:17 PM GMT
    Considering the circumstances by opinion about this case is no different from my general belief: Any distraction this poses is a shortcoming on the part of others. Age and orientation is irrelevant, if they're kicking up a fuss about it, it's no ones fault but their and their small minded ways. Their problem, making it our problem - shame is, he was probably a good player and an asset to the team.
    Not much will change that but personally, apologise for nothing.

    Admittedly on the topic of discretion if Jamie was; then an invite and a peck were counterproductive.
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    Sep 12, 2012 2:33 PM GMT
    Dallasfan824 said
    dayumm saidAssoicated Press' version of the same story (includes pics of Kuntz for what it's worth):

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gay-nd-football-player-says-221046333--spt.html

    APKuntz doesn't believe he was dismissed just for lying.

    ''I know if it was a girl in the press box, or even an older woman, nothing would have happened,'' he said. ''If it was an older woman, I would have probably been congratulated for it from my teammates.''


    No, Kuntz. I don't care if that was Meryl Streep up there with you. Your teammates' first reaction about Mrs. Robinson would not be high-fives. Stop that foolish line of thinking. Stop it, right now.

    t.


    I disagree. I know a lot of straight guys in their 20s and all fantasize about bagging a "cougar". I suspect on this he is right. If he had some cheerleader or MILF up there, he would have been envied. Betty White, which seems more his taste, maybe not.


    I understand what you're saying, and I only disagree that "congratulations!" would have been the initial, prevailing, consensus reaction. That reaction would come from some, but not until after the reaction of "WTF?!?" especially if it's not just a MILF but a GILF. If this was a "cheerleader" versus "drum major" issue, he'd have a better argument, but from the coach's standpoint, you're still not in the media room to be fooling around with anybody, not matter how hot (cold?) they are.

    Either way, Kuntz's "everybody else would get away with it" is adolescent thinking. If he thinks he should be able to brag about his "bagging" relationship with his teammates, he should have demonstrated it by coming clean from the beginning with them and his coach.
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    Sep 12, 2012 2:43 PM GMT
    Caslon20000 saidCould his smile be any gayer? ... Not that that's a bad thing. Just saying.


    I know it's wrong to say, but my 'dar immediately went wooooooooooooooooooooo! icon_smile.gif
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    Sep 12, 2012 2:53 PM GMT
    them sugar daddies..
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    Sep 12, 2012 2:57 PM GMT
    bad_wolf saidConsidering the circumstances by opinion about this case is no different from my general belief: Any distraction this poses is a shortcoming on others part. Age and orientation is irrelevant, if they're kicking up a fuss about it it's no fault other their own and their small minded ways. There problem, making it our problem - shame is he was probably a good player an asset to the team.
    Not much will change that but personally, apologies for nothing.

    Admittedly on the topic of discretion if Jamie was, an invite and a peck were counterproductive.


    I'm with you on that "distraction" thing, and it should be re-emphasized that their relationship, if it was sexual, became completely legal once the kid turned 18. Unfortunately for Jamie, he pre-supposed his teammates' reactions in deciding to bring Mr. Magoo up into the press box with him to sneak a kiss, then pre-supposed his coach's reaction when he decided to lie about it first. ("You're not going to tell the truth anyway," he later said about why he thinks he was released. Way to trust your coach!)

    How it could've gone better for Jamie:

    * Meet your manfriend AFTER the game, give 'em a smooch.
    * Whoever sees it and asks about it, tell 'em: 'that's my new boyfriend, we met online and it's his first time meeting me in person.'
    * Deal with whatever reactions, if any, come your way. Whatever the reactions are, expulsion from the team cannot be among them.
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    Sep 12, 2012 3:06 PM GMT
    shortstuffs saidthem sugar daddies..

    Well now maybe the geriatric sugar daddy will compensate Jamie for having contributed to ruining his football college career. What a predator that guy must be.

    He was hitting on the kid online when he was just 17? And then he doesn't have the common sense restraint to stay out of the press box, and to kiss the kid in front of others?
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    Sep 12, 2012 3:14 PM GMT
    shortstuffs saidthem sugar daddies..


    icon_lol.gif
  • jmanorlando

    Posts: 205

    Sep 12, 2012 3:21 PM GMT
    First, if you are part of a team you do the job your assigned. His was to film the game and not bring a girlfriend or boyfriend along.

    Did this guy do what was asked? Maybe since he filmed the game.
    Did he create a distraction? Yes
    Was that 65 year authorized to be in the pressbox? Unknown
    Did he lie to his Coach? Yes
    Can you trust this player? No, he lies.

    What 18 yr. old has a 65 year old bf, umm this is creepy and makes you wonder what spell this guy has or should I say cash.

    imho - This student is using his "Gay Card" as an excuse and needs to take responsibility for himself.

    I would kick him off the team as well for improper conduct.
  • bischero

    Posts: 847

    Sep 12, 2012 3:22 PM GMT
    65 and 18...

    icon_eek.gif

    No. Just no.
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    Sep 12, 2012 3:23 PM GMT
    Sorry but a 65 year old man should have known better and had more self control than by going in a press box and making out with an 18 year old while he is performing a job, especially in light of the kid not being out. And even though the kid is legal you are fooling yourself if visions of a Jerry Sandusky type situation didn't run through the coach's mind. By Kuntz's words it really does sound more than a peck on the lips. A simple kiss wouldn't warrant anyone saying they got 'carried away.'

    And sorry...no players would be high fiving him if it'd been a 65 year old woman. That's well beyond cougar years.