Support the right to have an abortion... for any reason?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 15, 2012 1:25 PM GMT
    Do you support the right for a woman to have an abortion simply because she doesn't like the sex of the developing fetus?

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2012/09/sex_selection_in_babies_through_pgd_americans_are_paying_to_have_daughters_rather_than_sons_.html

    Simpson was inseminated with the slower sperm that same day. Fifteen weeks later, she asked a colleague at the hospital to sneak in an after-hours ultrasound. The results felt like a brick landing on her stomach: another boy.
    “I lay in bed and cried for weeks,” said Simpson, now 36, whose name has been changed to protect her privacy. She took a job in the operating room so she would no longer have to work with women who were giving birth to girls.
    Simpson and her husband talked about getting an abortion....


    The woman in the article did not end up having an abortion but the topic got me thinking. When it comes to abortions I always think of a teenager or rape victim or some woman in a position where she cannot support a child. But what about woman who just don't like the babies sex, or find it may have a chance of having a crippling deformity, or who knows in the future doctors may be able to judge how smart your future child will be....

    Is there a line to be drawn?

  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Sep 15, 2012 1:56 PM GMT
    ATC84 saidDo you support the right for a woman to have an abortion simply because she doesn't like the sex of the developing fetus?

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2012/09/sex_selection_in_babies_through_pgd_americans_are_paying_to_have_daughters_rather_than_sons_.html

    Simpson was inseminated with the slower sperm that same day. Fifteen weeks later, she asked a colleague at the hospital to sneak in an after-hours ultrasound. The results felt like a brick landing on her stomach: another boy.
    “I lay in bed and cried for weeks,” said Simpson, now 36, whose name has been changed to protect her privacy. She took a job in the operating room so she would no longer have to work with women who were giving birth to girls.
    Simpson and her husband talked about getting an abortion....


    The woman in the article did not end up having an abortion but the topic got me thinking. When it comes to abortions I always think of a teenager or rape victim or some woman in a position where she cannot support a child. But what about woman who just don't like the babies sex, or find it may have a chance of having a crippling deformity, or who knows in the future doctors may be able to judge how smart your future child will be....

    Is there a line to be drawn?



    There absolutely is a line to be drawn. I do not support abortion unless in cases of incest, rape, or health of the mother.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 15, 2012 2:09 PM GMT
    ATC84 saidDo you support the right for a woman to have an abortion simply because she doesn't like the sex of the developing fetus?

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2012/09/sex_selection_in_babies_through_pgd_americans_are_paying_to_have_daughters_rather_than_sons_.html

    Simpson was inseminated with the slower sperm that same day. Fifteen weeks later, she asked a colleague at the hospital to sneak in an after-hours ultrasound. The results felt like a brick landing on her stomach: another boy.
    “I lay in bed and cried for weeks,” said Simpson, now 36, whose name has been changed to protect her privacy. She took a job in the operating room so she would no longer have to work with women who were giving birth to girls.
    Simpson and her husband talked about getting an abortion....


    The woman in the article did not end up having an abortion but the topic got me thinking. When it comes to abortions I always think of a teenager or rape victim or some woman in a position where she cannot support a child. But what about woman who just don't like the babies sex, or find it may have a chance of having a crippling deformity, or who knows in the future doctors may be able to judge how smart your future child will be....

    Is there a line to be drawn?



    Would you rather her raise a child she doesnt want?
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Sep 15, 2012 2:14 PM GMT
    catfish5 said
    Would you rather her raise a child she doesnt want?


    Of course not. One would hope that she would grow to want it. However, there are other answers besides abortion. The life of the child cannot be completely discounted. Suffice to say that this is a difficult subject with passionate opinions on both sides. This will likely be argued until the end of time. It's a moral dilemma.
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    Sep 15, 2012 2:26 PM GMT
    catfish5 said
    ATC84 saidDo you support the right for a woman to have an abortion simply because she doesn't like the sex of the developing fetus?

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2012/09/sex_selection_in_babies_through_pgd_americans_are_paying_to_have_daughters_rather_than_sons_.html

    Simpson was inseminated with the slower sperm that same day. Fifteen weeks later, she asked a colleague at the hospital to sneak in an after-hours ultrasound. The results felt like a brick landing on her stomach: another boy.
    “I lay in bed and cried for weeks,” said Simpson, now 36, whose name has been changed to protect her privacy. She took a job in the operating room so she would no longer have to work with women who were giving birth to girls.
    Simpson and her husband talked about getting an abortion....


    The woman in the article did not end up having an abortion but the topic got me thinking. When it comes to abortions I always think of a teenager or rape victim or some woman in a position where she cannot support a child. But what about woman who just don't like the babies sex, or find it may have a chance of having a crippling deformity, or who knows in the future doctors may be able to judge how smart your future child will be....

    Is there a line to be drawn?



    Would you rather her raise a child she doesnt want?


    I know a woman who desperately wanted a girl, but gave up after three boys. She loves her children, and now has a granddaughter to love as well.
    At the worst, there is always adoption if you can't be bothered to love an infant that grew inside your own body.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Sep 15, 2012 2:30 PM GMT
    An abortion is an abortion, no matter what the circumstances of the conception or the reasons a woman wants to have one.
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    Sep 15, 2012 2:42 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    catfish5 said
    Would you rather her raise a child she doesnt want?


    Of course not. One would hope that she would grow to want it. However, there are other answers besides abortion. The life of the child cannot be completely discounted. Suffice to say that this is a difficult subject with passionate opinions on both sides. This will likely be argued until the end of time. It's a moral dilemma.


    Let me give u a reality check. The woman is obviously concerned about appearances. She wants a perfect little family including a girl. She will have this child (no way in hell is the child going up for adoption) and the child will grow up with insurmountable mental and verbal and possibly physical abuse. If i was the child, i wouldnt want that life. Abortion is legal. There is no crime in aborting an unwanted fetus. In this case of sex selection, i dont see an issue. To believe she will grow to love the child, is naive and delusional. U shouldnt be forced by big govt republicans to carry a fetus unwillingly
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Sep 15, 2012 3:28 PM GMT
    when the government imposes morality into healthcare this is what you get.

    A BIG MESS.

    The biggest check against abortion for any reason is the fact that there are few if any physicians who perform them.

    The government should stay out of healthcare , medicine and decisions between doctor and patient.

    In many states where abortion is legal there are practically no doctors that do them. This is the biggest check against abortion.

    What a waste of energy and money this whole 40 year fight has been over abortion. ITS OVER abortion is a legal procedure. Our country should stop wasting energy over reliving this debate over and over.

    Everyone has a right to a personal opinion about abortion, but it stops there. You do not have a right to force anyone to go through a pregnancy.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Sep 15, 2012 3:47 PM GMT
    catfish5 said
    Let me give u a reality check. The woman is obviously concerned about appearances. She wants a perfect little family including a girl. She will have this child (no way in hell is the child going up for adoption) and the child will grow up with insurmountable mental and verbal and possibly physical abuse.



    NEWSFLASH: The day I need a "reality check" from YOU will never come. So save your breath. So she could kill the child, but you don't think she could put it up for adoption? How do you know the child will grow up with insurmountable mental and verbal and physical abuse? Maybe she will love the child. Regardless, as I said in my first post, this is an argument that will be ongoing probably until the end of time and everyone has an opinion. It is ultimately a moral issue that will likely never be solved.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 15, 2012 3:48 PM GMT
    musclmed saidwhen the government imposes morality into healthcare this is what you get.

    A BIG MESS.

    The biggest check against abortion for any reason is the fact that there are few if any physicians who perform them.

    The government should stay out of healthcare , medicine and decisions between doctor and patient.

    In many states where abortion is legal there are practically no doctors that do them. This is the biggest check against abortion.

    What a waste of energy and money this whole 40 year fight has been over abortion. ITS OVER abortion is a legal procedure. Our country should stop wasting energy over reliving this debate over and over.

    Everyone has a right to a personal opinion about abortion, but it stops there. You do not have a right to force anyone to go through a pregnancy.


    Wow. We agree on something. Im fuckin stunned
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 15, 2012 3:51 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    catfish5 said
    Let me give u a reality check. The woman is obviously concerned about appearances. She wants a perfect little family including a girl. She will have this child (no way in hell is the child going up for adoption) and the child will grow up with insurmountable mental and verbal and possibly physical abuse.



    NEWSFLASH: The day I need a "reality check" from YOU will never come. So save your breath. So she could kill the child, but you don't think she could put it up for adoption? How do you know the child will grow up with insurmountable mental and verbal and physical abuse? Maybe she will love the child. Regardless, as I said in my first post, this is an argument that will be ongoing probably until the end of time and everyone has an opinion. It is ultimately a moral issue that will likely never be solved.


    I just gave u two relaity checks because u live in some weird alternate luxury universe. Dont get mad. Just say thank u catfish
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Sep 15, 2012 3:51 PM GMT
    musclmed said
    Everyone has a right to a personal opinion about abortion, but it stops there. You do not have a right to force anyone to go through a pregnancy.


    I do agree with you on this. I think someone can be absolutely against abortion, as I am, but understand that it is not their choice to make the decision for someone else. I feel for any woman who is faced with such a decision, as I am sure that it is something that will stay with them their entire life.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Sep 15, 2012 4:02 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    catfish5 said
    Would you rather her raise a child she doesnt want?


    Of course not. One would hope that she would grow to want it. However, there are other answers besides abortion. The life of the child cannot be completely discounted. Suffice to say that this is a difficult subject with passionate opinions on both sides. This will likely be argued until the end of time. It's a moral dilemma.


    I used to be pro life too. Then I looked into it and learned that 1/3 of women have an abortion by age 45. Do you really want the government forcing 1/3 of women to be pregnant when they don't want to be? And how would you enforce it? Would you lock pregnant women in jail cells until they give birth? Don't you think suspicion of pregnant women would abound and effect the lives of ALL women? Roe V. Wade isn't about whether YOU have a moral dilema, it's about whether men have the right to hold the gun of law to a woman's head and force her to have a baby she doesn't want.

    Millions of children around the world are going without food RIGHT NOW. Why don't feed them if you have such a big conscience? Meanwhile, go online and read the testimony of women who have had abortions. It might help you realize that you actually are clueless about what women go through.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Sep 15, 2012 4:07 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    Millions of children around the world are going without food RIGHT NOW. Why don't feed them if you have such a big conscience? Meanwhile, go online and read the testimony of women who have had abortions.



    That's a ridiculous thing to say. I suppose if you want to use that hair-brained analogy, if you're so for the killing of children, maybe you think we should just kill the ones who are suffering or who are born to parents who don't want them? Why draw the line at the unborn? (Just to be clear, I am in no way suggesting we would every do any of the above, merely making a point.)
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Sep 15, 2012 4:13 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    HottJoe said
    Millions of children around the world are going without food RIGHT NOW. Why don't feed them if you have such a big conscience? Meanwhile, go online and read the testimony of women who have had abortions.



    That's a ridiculous thing to say. I suppose if you want to use that hair-brained analogy, if you're so for the killing of children, maybe you think we should just kill the ones who are suffering or who are born to parents who don't want them? Why draw the line at the unborn? (Just to be clear, I am in no way suggesting we would every do any of the above, merely making a point.)


    My point is that if you want to help children then make the choice to help those in need. On the other hand, if you want to force women to be pregnant, then you don't have a choice. You don't get to enslave women's bodies. The end doesn't justify the means.

    Edit:
    It's telling which part of my post you cherry picked to quote. Makes me wonder if you do think you have the right to govern over women's bodies.
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    Sep 15, 2012 4:13 PM GMT
    I'm utterly pro-choice but using abortion for sex selection makes me wonder if this person is mentally stable.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Sep 15, 2012 4:14 PM GMT
    catfish5 said
    musclmed saidwhen the government imposes morality into healthcare this is what you get.

    A BIG MESS.

    The biggest check against abortion for any reason is the fact that there are few if any physicians who perform them.

    The government should stay out of healthcare , medicine and decisions between doctor and patient.

    In many states where abortion is legal there are practically no doctors that do them. This is the biggest check against abortion.

    What a waste of energy and money this whole 40 year fight has been over abortion. ITS OVER abortion is a legal procedure. Our country should stop wasting energy over reliving this debate over and over.

    Everyone has a right to a personal opinion about abortion, but it stops there. You do not have a right to force anyone to go through a pregnancy.


    Wow. We agree on something. Im fuckin stunned



    An instructive moment that applies to other situations where a more liberal political philosophy can be disastrous.

    When you give the government powers it did not have all in the name of pushing a agenda it is likely to backfire.

    Example Arizona where a law was enacted to require physicians to order a ultrasound on women having a abortion ( mind you its a good idea to have one anyway)

    The only legal basis for this law is derived from the same pro abortion crowd that has loaded the courts with precedent on forcing doctors to discuss and offer abortions.

    So I come from a philosophy of whether the Government even has the right to discuss or regulate the topic at all. Not whether if it is right or wrong.

    Morality and other causes taken on by the left end up causing more grief and problems. 2nd example is Bloomberg's ban on large soda's in NYC. There is absolutely NO reason if his ban is legal that another mayor could come along and limit the amount of meat you order at restaurant.

    In my experience liberals see things emotionally. Whether its right or wrong, the details and how it is imposed are just formalities. This is a disastrous road to take as someone else can come along in the future and just go in the opposite direction.

    Notice how easy a persons "minds change" about a topic. Do we really want our laws to blow in the wind?

    Abortion should be a legal procedure only because it is a legitimate procedure. Not because it is some feminist right , or a way to empower women.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 15, 2012 4:16 PM GMT
    I am more concerned about the real human beings who die as a result of illegal abortions (due to social and legal pressures) than I am about some foetus that does not even resemble a human being. A properly administered abortion is one of the safest procedures known to medicine. Every woman should have the right to access abortion and government has a responsibility to enable that.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Sep 15, 2012 4:20 PM GMT
    musclmed said
    catfish5 said
    musclmed saidwhen the government imposes morality into healthcare this is what you get.

    A BIG MESS.

    The biggest check against abortion for any reason is the fact that there are few if any physicians who perform them.

    The government should stay out of healthcare , medicine and decisions between doctor and patient.

    In many states where abortion is legal there are practically no doctors that do them. This is the biggest check against abortion.

    What a waste of energy and money this whole 40 year fight has been over abortion. ITS OVER abortion is a legal procedure. Our country should stop wasting energy over reliving this debate over and over.

    Everyone has a right to a personal opinion about abortion, but it stops there. You do not have a right to force anyone to go through a pregnancy.


    Wow. We agree on something. Im fuckin stunned



    An instructive moment that applies to other situations where a more liberal political philosophy can be disastrous.

    When you give the government powers it did not have all in the name of pushing a agenda it is likely to backfire.

    Example Arizona where a law was enacted to require physicians to order a ultrasound on women having a abortion ( mind you its a good idea to have one anyway)

    The only legal basis for this law is derived from the same pro abortion crowd that has loaded the courts with precedent on forcing doctors to discuss and offer abortions.

    So I come from a philosophy of not whether the Government even has the right to discuss or regulate the topic at all. Not whether if it is right or wrong.

    Morality and other causes taken on by the left end up causing more grief and problems. 2nd example is Bloomberg's ban on large soda's in NYC. There is absolutely NO reason if his ban is legal that another mayor could come along and limit the amount of meat you order at restaurant.

    In my experience liberals see things emotionally. Whether its right or wrong, the details and how it is imposed are just formalities. This is a disastrous road to take as someone else can come along in the future and just go in the opposite direction.

    Notice how easy a persons "minds change" about a topic. Do we really want our laws to blow in the wind?

    Abortion should be a legal procedure only because it is a legitimate procedure. Not because it is some feminist right , or a way to empower women.


    I agree the ban on soda goes too far. Yeah, some people might drop a few pounds, but really their diet plan should be a personal decision, or guided by a doctor. The dumbest part is that it doesn't include diet soda which is probably worse for you anyway.
  • xebec75

    Posts: 243

    Sep 15, 2012 4:26 PM GMT
    My body. Mine. In this world it is the only thing I possess. Everything else, my clothes, my house, my money, can be taken from me. When objects are stolen, we call that theft. When ownership of the body or mind is threatened that is murder, assault, or coercion; although these are also forms of theft...

    Theft. I want ownership of my body. I want to choose what medical procedures I have. I want to say yes or no to sexual acts. I want laws to protect my body from violence. I OWN this body. If I want to tattoo, poison, or kill this body, I can. It belongs to me.

    Abortion. An egg is not a chicken, and we eat both. It is an ethical question, but not ours as men to make.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Sep 15, 2012 4:30 PM GMT
    Maybe something to think about.

    Do you want to live in a society that has Government restrained ? Maybe you would have to fend for yourself but at least you have control of your life?

    OR

    do you want to live in a kingdom? Where rules are put in place by fiat?

    Look at the DNC - god/Jerusalem fiasco. Why didn't Americans march in the streets over that crap?
    You can agree or disagree over the topic, but we should not put up with sham votes.

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    Sep 15, 2012 4:42 PM GMT
    musclmed said
    Do you want to live in a society that has Government restrained ? Maybe you would have to fend for yourself but at least you have control of your life?

    OR

    do you want to live in a kingdom? Where rules are put in place by fiat?


    I think most reasonable people would (and do) choose something in between.
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    Sep 15, 2012 5:07 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidI'm utterly pro-choice but using abortion for sex selection makes me wonder if this person is mentally stable.


    I'm in the same boat. Perhaps it would be better if abortions were legal but require a doctors approval beforehand. No abortions because Princess wanted a baby girl.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 15, 2012 5:28 PM GMT
    The question really is whether you believe that you own yourself.

    If you do own yourself [and hence your body] you can't be compelled or forbidden to do what you like with it... and so you can't prohibit abortion.

    I think Abortion is one of the few cases where a Libertarian argument is actually quite persuasive.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Sep 15, 2012 5:42 PM GMT
    ATC84 said
    Christian73 saidI'm utterly pro-choice but using abortion for sex selection makes me wonder if this person is mentally stable.


    I'm in the same boat. Perhaps it would be better if abortions were legal but require a doctors approval beforehand. No abortions because Princess wanted a baby girl.


    How can you be "utterly pro choice" if you're leaving the decision to the doctor and not the woman? In answer to your question, no, doctors should not be given the authority to have final approval. How can you even begin to assume that all doctors would draw the conclusions you are preaching? What if it went the wrong way and doctors started pushing for abortions????

    It's the woman's choice. Deal with it.