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Aug 24, 2008 11:04 AM GMT
I had an MRI done due to having some low back pain; which has since gone away. I found out that I have some slight degeneration in my spine. There is apparently some lose of fluid around the discs. Anyhow, my doctor told me to stop doing squats. My instinct tells me that I don't want to "baby" my back and just let it continue to degenerate. I feel like I should try to keep my abs and low back muscles as strong as possible and keep doing squats and deadifts etc. - just very carefully. Then again, I'm not the one licensed to practice medicine.
Anyhow, has anyone else had low back pain and been told to stop squatting? Did you get a second opinion and if so what were you told?
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Aug 24, 2008 11:20 PM GMT
That would really suck if you couldn't do them anymore. I would suggest getting another opinion. I would try to find a sports related physician or someone who appreciates how much you workout. I have never heard of someone not being able to squat because of lower back degeneration. But I suggest not to disregard your physician until you can have another qualified individual who can back up what you suspect is possible.
Although I love/hate squats if I were in your case and I did have several opinions that dissuaded me from doing them I would make the leg press my new best friend. Maybe you can also wear one of those belts to help isolate your back. I haven't worn one when I finally learned how to do all of this the right way. But for people with structural issues, maybe it's necessary. And perhaps it can keep you in the gym.
Let us know how it goes.
Good luck.
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Aug 25, 2008 12:14 AM GMT
Go to see a Chiropractor. The back is kind of their thing.
If you can, go see a chiropractor that deals with athletes, and has been doing so for many years.
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Aug 25, 2008 2:53 AM GMT
I think chiropractors are great but they may be contra-indicated for a person with Sashaman's concern. Spinal degeneration is not something that can be corrected with physical adjustments. In fact, and I'm no expert, I would think that it may be dangerous.
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Aug 25, 2008 3:18 AM GMT
You may think it is appropriate not to "baby" it, but I have some friends who have horrible back problems and it really isn't anything to mess with, otherwise you could be in for some very serious and expensive back surgery that will not only curtail your squats but a lot of other activities as well. Get another opinion, but don't think that this isn't a very serious issue.
I am not a physician, but again I do have friends who have gone through hell with their backs.
Good luck!
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Aug 25, 2008 3:34 AM GMT
DON'T MESS WITH YOUR BACK!!!
I haven't done squats for just over a year now. I've had back problems for years due to a number of sports injuries over the years. Last year, after soreness in the back, I went to the doc and she told me to stop with deads and squats. I did. I've had no problems with my back since then and my legs have even gotten bigger.
I do single leg squats and single leg king deads to work around both. I also cycle through sissy squats and a number of other leg positions without weights during my workout. I haven't had a problem with my back since then (knock on wood) and my legs definitely haven't suffered.
With that said, I'm not a power lifter. I'm not training for size. But then if you have back issues, you should probably stay away from power lifting anyway.
And, if you do go to a chiropractor, make sure that they do x-rays (at least) before they touch you. If they don't tell you that they need to do this first, leave.
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Aug 25, 2008 4:01 AM GMT
I'm not going to give medical advice or even take a stand on second/third/forth opinions or which type of doc you should see.
I'll just offer my own personal experience...
I've suffered from back issues since I was 20. That's 28 years now. I have arthritis in my spine and some genetic abnormalities in both my disks and vertebrae that combine to create mechanical and structural "challenges."
I've seen just about every kind of doctor out there, with many difference instances of each kind, some of whom are the absolute tops of their specialties. I've tried all sorts of things. I've had a dozen or more CT, Xray, and MRI scans. And where am I now? For the last two years, I'd say my back has been the best it's ever been since I was 19. I give most of the credit to a very sharp Chiropractor -- she's the 8th or 9th Chiro I've tried over the years. So after finally nailing it, with her help after working on it for 26 years, here's my advice for you and anyone with serious back issues (by serious, I mean disk, vertebral, nervous, or structural issues, not just "sore back muscles"):
1) It's all about your core strength and flexibility. Sacrifice everything for core strength and flexibility. Spend all your time researching and understanding the muscles and structure of your core, and how to develop strength and flexibility. Note I'm always saying strength AND flexibility. With just one or the other, you lose. Only with both do you succeed. With core strength and flexibility, everything else is possible. It is the foundation. Without it you lose. I won't tell you exactly what this means. There's millions of words out there on the net for you to find. Many on this site -- which is a great place to start.
2) Don't go under the knife. Ever. The procedures today are still as medieval as they have been for 50 years.
3) Get over the "cult of the squat." I was a member of the cult. I loved the squat. But it is just too risky a move, and it will ALWAYS find your weak point and fuck you. It is simply a matter of time. Yes it is a great exercise. But for people with serious back issues, the risks are not worth the benefits. And regardless of what the cult says, there are plenty of ways you can achieve strength and mass in your legs without this exercise. Lunges, sissy squats, and presses all can be fine substitutes and there are plenty of variations of each. This site is a great resource for non-squat legwork.
Good luck.
K
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Aug 25, 2008 9:48 AM GMT
Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll stop doing squats until I get the clearance from another medical professional. Could probably benefit from incorporating more unilateral movements like lunges anyhow.
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Aug 25, 2008 5:01 PM GMT
I'm all about NOT doing squats anymore. I tweaked my lower back doing them months ago, and it's still giving me problems.
I'm not a big fan of chiro's, but even mine told me to NOT do them as they put severe amounts of pressure on your spine/joints/back. What he DID say I could do instead of barbell squats were smith rack squats. The difference is that your legs are supporting the weight instead of all of it falling on your back. It forces your body to rely more on leg/core strength and helps to reduce the pressure on your spine.
But there are plenty of exercises you can do to build your legs that don't include squats.
As the others have said, DON'T F*CK WITH YOUR BACK. You'll regret it the rest of your life.
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Oct 12, 2009 5:44 PM GMT
MuchMoreThanMuscle said
Although I love/hate squats if I were in your case and I did have several opinions that dissuaded me from doing them I would make the leg press my new best friend. Stay away from leg presses. They are a prime cause of back injuries. Do yourself a favor and read Stuart McGill's books on back rehabilitation and training. In any case, nearly everyone has disc degeneration, including most of the young guys you see squatting at the gym. It doesn't mean anything. |
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Oct 12, 2009 6:26 PM GMT
Most Doctors don't have a clue. If you are practising good form and it is not causing you pain then do squats. Everyone over the age of 30 starts to degenerate (& in some cases earlier), it's often a normal finding on MRI/X-rays, it does not necessarily mean you should avoid certain exercises.
With degernerative changes like arthritis the best thing you can do is exercise, but pace yourself. You will build strong muscles which means less stiffness & stress on your joints. However if squats are causing you pain, try different exercises.
People get so scared of back pain, they end up avoiding certain movements or activites because they are scared it will "go", but it's a vicious circle, as the back just becomes stiffer & weaker with increased pain.......
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Oct 12, 2009 6:29 PM GMT
viveutvivas saidMuchMoreThanMuscle said
Stay away from leg presses. They are a prime cause of back injuries.
I have to disagree. Leg press is a great exercise. Like any exercise it WON'T cause you pain providing it's done correctly. |
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Oct 12, 2009 6:40 PM GMT
>.<
I just realized this thread is more than 1 year old.
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Oct 12, 2009 6:49 PM GMT
ha, so it is........
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Oct 12, 2009 6:50 PM GMT
Diffident_Sunshine said>.<
I just realized this thread is more than 1 year old.
Yes it is. Maybe if sashaman sees this topic back up, he will let us all know what finally happened. I just know that I think there is a difference between getting a second opinion and searching for a doctor to tell you what you want to hear. |
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Oct 12, 2009 7:16 PM GMT
necromancer wooooo
Actually in my experience (nearly 20 years of back issues) most general doctors donīt know much about the back and their solution is "donīt do anything", ibroprufen or referral. In some cases that is the correct advice, no doubt, but in many cases it is not.
If anyone is in doubt they should go and see a physiotherapist or a back specialist. Surgeons will suggest surgery. They would. I started pilates because of my back and the difference is stunning. Iguana got it with the balance between flexibility and strength: that`s pilates.
(This post was brought to you by Future Pilates Teachers Looking for Clients LTD)
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Oct 12, 2009 7:21 PM GMT
I second the pilates comment. I have suffered back pain for the last 15 years. Until I started pilates. In addition to the relief of back pain, I have noted an overall difference in my body and the way I carry myself.
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Oct 12, 2009 7:28 PM GMT
Lostboy saidnecromancer wooooo
their solution is "donīt do anything", ibroprufen or referral. In some cases that is the correct advice,
(This post was brought to you by Future Pilates Teachers Looking for Clients LTD) Doing nothing is the worse thing you can do for back pain......even in the acute stages it's vital to do some form of exercise, however little...... |
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Oct 12, 2009 7:39 PM GMT
Most doctors know absolutely nothing about lifting, good lifting technique, nutrition or pretty much anything fitness related. They are great for acute injuries (axe in the forehead stuff) but often ignorant of "how to be fit."
Unless your doctor is also a very serious athlete or trains athletes, I would ignore that advice or seek out a really top tier athletic coach to work with.
I had major back pain for 15 years from martial arts injuries and saw all sorts of doctors who recommended rest or surgery or medication. The only thing that made it better was training with a good knowledgeable coach and lifting heavy weights (eventually, once past the early stage progressions.)
Wish you luck. Would love to get an update on your progress (since this is an old post.)
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Oct 12, 2009 7:46 PM GMT
What about yoga? I thought yoga cured back pain and gave you the erections of a 17-year-old.
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Oct 12, 2009 8:00 PM GMT
I'm beginning yoga today.
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Oct 12, 2009 8:04 PM GMT
I'm not a Doctor, but I am a healthcare professional.
the only thing doing squats is going to do is put more strain on your back.
if you're already running and 90%, you're not going to get any better. Degeneration is Degeneration. You may be able to see a chiropractor and feel less of the effects, but putting more strain on your back is probably a bad idea.
More plyometric based things like pilates or yoga are probably going to be more suited for you now. You'll be able to strengthen the muscles without the extra pressure pushing down on your intervertebral discs, which is what's going to make things worse. (Hell you may even relieve the pressure with yoga.)
but if you're really worried about it, why are you asking us? We're not doctors, and we're not chiropractors. Go see one, and see what he says.
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Oct 12, 2009 8:12 PM GMT
why is this an issue if you're not a professional weight lifter?
the first thing i did was look at your pictures expecting competition photos or something... in my opinion... squats? there's nothing to miss, thank your doctor and find something healthier for you.
doctor says no... OK, thank him. Find one of the thousands of alternatives you have to choose from that are less eye-popping and back breaking. You will find a doctor who says its ok, if you seek it out.. its ultimately up to you and what you deduct is good for you.
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Oct 12, 2009 8:14 PM GMT
Funkapottomous saidI'm not a Doctor, but I am a healthcare professional.
the only thing doing squats is going to do is put more strain on your back.
if you're already running and 90%, you're not going to get any better. Degeneration is Degeneration. You may be able to see a chiropractor and feel less of the effects, but putting more strain on your back is probably a bad idea.
More plyometric based things like pilates or yoga are probably going to be more suited for you now. You'll be able to strengthen the muscles without the extra pressure pushing down on your intervertebral discs, which is what's going to make things worse. (Hell you may even relieve the pressure with yoga.)
but if you're really worried about it, why are you asking us? We're not doctors, and we're not chiropractors. Go see one, and see what he says. I'm sure the OP has been to see the doctor. After all the thread is over 1 year old |
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Oct 12, 2009 8:43 PM GMT
gym_dude saidLostboy saidnecromancer wooooo
their solution is "donīt do anything", ibroprufen or referral. In some cases that is the correct advice,
(This post was brought to you by Future Pilates Teachers Looking for Clients LTD)
Doing nothing is the worse thing you can do for back pain......even in the acute stages it's vital to do some form of exercise, however little...... when itīs actually acute (a flare up) you often literally canīt move. I do agree though that as soon as you can you should start some form of movement. |
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Oct 12, 2009 9:15 PM GMT
My low back bugs the dickens out of me from time to time. For me, I've found ab work brings relief. I have also found that legs presses are great for popping my low back in, and provide relief. Flat bench dumbbells pop my upper back in. I'd never let them cut on my back. I strengthen core and do heavy leg presses and everything fixes itself right up. I also do hamstrings. For me, it's about balance which seems to fix everything.
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Oct 12, 2009 10:30 PM GMT
i hate squats and never do them anymore.
They put a strain on my upper vertebrae. The pressure on the neck is not something that feels right to me.
Maybe it's the way i'm built .
There are so many other ways to develop legs.
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Oct 12, 2009 10:39 PM GMT
Sure, get another opinion, but don't do any squats until that time!  |
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Oct 12, 2009 10:52 PM GMT
you could always try and switch things up... front squats engage ur abs more so theres less strain on the back and might just be what ur lookin for... but as a 20 year old virtually pain free i should just shut my mouth  |
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Oct 13, 2009 3:27 AM GMT
Blondizgd saidFunkapottomous saidI'm not a Doctor, but I am a healthcare professional.
the only thing doing squats is going to do is put more strain on your back.
if you're already running and 90%, you're not going to get any better. Degeneration is Degeneration. You may be able to see a chiropractor and feel less of the effects, but putting more strain on your back is probably a bad idea.
More plyometric based things like pilates or yoga are probably going to be more suited for you now. You'll be able to strengthen the muscles without the extra pressure pushing down on your intervertebral discs, which is what's going to make things worse. (Hell you may even relieve the pressure with yoga.)
but if you're really worried about it, why are you asking us? We're not doctors, and we're not chiropractors. Go see one, and see what he says.
I'm sure the OP has been to see the doctor. After all the thread is over 1 year old yeah. Didn't see that. Was trying to be helpful. Big deal. You wanna fight about it?  |
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Oct 13, 2009 3:34 AM GMT
Do dumbbell squats instead of 'barbell across the upper back squats'. Leg Extensions. Back Extensions, Supermans, Planks and Bridges to keep the mid to lower back and core muscles strong. See there-now you have alternate exercises that will still keep you strong without putting your back at risk.
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Oct 13, 2009 3:34 AM GMT
Why is this back after a year n two months   |
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Oct 13, 2009 6:35 AM GMT
I see so many people with back pain and they all think that they shouldn't be moving/exercises!!! They don't reailse that inactivity exacerbates there pain!!!........
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Oct 13, 2009 8:21 AM GMT
gym_dude saidI see so many people with back pain and they all think that they shouldn't be moving/exercises!!! They don't reailse that inactivity exacerbates there pain!!!........ Correct: all i was talking about was the first part of a flare up when you CANĻT move. After that gentle movement is the best thing. |
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Oct 13, 2009 3:35 PM GMT
Its very easy to do squats wrong and when you do them wrong/and sometimes to often it can have serious complications on body parts, especially the spine. I'm not a doctor, chiropractor or anything... but wouldn't one assume because you've already got degradation of cartilage around your spinal bone (vertebrae) that it is highly likely that it will continue and that continuing to do exercise would only act as a catalyst for further degradation?
As tempting as it is to have nice abs, etc you really have to think of things for the long term... like there's no point doing them now if you aren't going to be able to do them or possibly even other things. If I was in the same situation as you but wanted to keep exercising I'd just focus on a different muscle group like my arms ... most exercises associated with them require you to keep an almost straight back when doing them right? so that could potentially be a good thing for you as you have little stress on your back and you get to keep exercising and have something to show off (your arms).
But I'm just assuming, I don't know if thats all right... thats just what I think.
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Oct 13, 2009 3:42 PM GMT
Well it's going to degenerate further anyway, as long as your lifting correctly and exercising consistenly it won't hurt and can only be good for you.
Everyone has degeneration but not everyone has pain which is interesting. It's all down to beliefs & lifestyle if you ask me.....
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Oct 13, 2009 4:02 PM GMT
I like this thread. Raises an important question. Why do squats anyways? If it's soo easy to hurt yourself and in the most important fragile places too, is it worth it? The argument "Well you're not doing it right" is weak, considering it's a little subjective about what's right and what's wrong when it comes to wieght-lifting, and what if it hurts even if you're doing it right?
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Oct 13, 2009 4:29 PM GMT
I had back issues for years due to one leg being shorter after a serious skiing accident. I didn't do squats or deadlifts, thinking they would aggravate my problem. I started stretching 5X a week about 20 years ago. I resisted at first, thinking it would take too much time, but I only stretch about 10 minutes a day. I introduced squats and deadlifts 8 years ago, and have not had back issues in that time. We are all individuals, and have different results from activities, but stretching has worked for me!
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Oct 13, 2009 11:51 PM GMT
track_boi saidyou could always try and switch things up... front squats engage ur abs more so theres less strain on the back and might just be what ur lookin for... but as a 20 year old virtually pain free i should just shut my mouth I like front squats. Easier on my low back and seem to pump my quads up more. |
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Oct 14, 2009 12:14 AM GMT
I didn't read all of the posts prior to mine. I think it is important to have a strong core, abdominal, and lower back muscles to prevent injuries if you're vulnerable to them.
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Oct 14, 2009 12:58 AM GMT
Sashaman - I was squatting like wild, then it got me. One day I popped a disc - had the MRI, severe degenerative disc disease. I had epidurals, went to PT, Chiropractic.. had facet joint injections. I put it off, but had to have a spinal fusion of my L2-L3-L4-and L5. At the time I was living in Pittsburgh and had one of the best spinal surgeons do the work. That was in 2003. I continued to suffer from pain - normally after a long plane flight - lifting my suitcase. I lost some weight - and definitely need to lose more - was introduced to this awesome physical therapist in Ft. lauderdale, Fiona - and she worked me back into shape. I do a lot of core and a lot of back. No squats though. I have gotten cocky once in a while and do leg presses... then it takes 3 days to get out fo pain and walk again. Follow your boduies natural cues. Good luck!
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Oct 14, 2009 1:28 AM GMT
Being 6'0" I have a hard time doing squats most tall people do, it took me f-ing up my back to realize that. So if the doctor says NO SQUATS then I would take his advice. Try other leg exercises like one leg lunges with dumbbells or step up with dumbbells. Its easy on the back and your quads, hamstrings, and glutes will all have symmetry.
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Oct 14, 2009 2:07 AM GMT
Wow!! Without squats your ass will get saggy!!!!
Girl no!!
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Oct 14, 2009 2:16 AM GMT
squats are bad for some many reasons....knees.....back.....neck.....
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