You seem like a decent enough guy. That said, I do wonder why you go out of your way with the hyperbole.
My partner is a DVD addict. He used to like to have breakfast on the West side, take the subway down to WTC, walk over to J&R, and see what was new. He did that rather often.
On September 11, 2001 I was having lunch in Treviso Italy. I came back to my office to witness, in horror, what we all saw. Immediately I started trying to telephone. It was 4 a.m. when I finally got through.
Yes, I actually do remember that day, quite vividly.
I did not have family or friends who were killed on 9/11 but your suggestion that my failure to equate the President of the United States with the most heinous characters in the history of the world is simply asinine and insulting.
More than insulting me (unimportant and I don't mind - it can even be fun), that sort of hyperbole actually is insulting to the people who where unfortunate enough to have been at ground zero (or any of the various ground zeros that there were on that day).
What is the difference between your accusing me of indifference to suffering because I don't share your opinion, and some fucktard demonizing the Dixie Chicks because of their views against the war?
I happened to see the "Where the Hell is Matt" thread last night and watched the great video that goes with it. After I went to his website and read his journal. One thing that struck me to the ground was this letter that he received."On September 11th I was fortunate enough to be 7 1/2 months pregnant with my first daughter and at home for a doctor's appointment, had I not been, I would have been on the 101st floor of the first tower that was hit that morning sitting at my desk.
In the almost 8 years since that day I have lost a lot of my faith in humanity. I never returned to any job, fearing that I would make new friends only to loose them, yet again, in some horrific way, nor have I made any attempts in general everyday life to make new friends for the same reason.
After going from having too many friends to count to being able to count them on one hand in the span of a few hours, it doesn't give you a lot of hope or ambition to start over. In a nutshell, I have just been plain scared to get involved again in caring for someone for fear that they won’t be there the next day when I wake up.
Then I saw your video, Matt, and the feeling that came over me is indescribable. I wish I could put it into words, but I can't. For those 4 brief minutes I can feel myself believing that people are actually "good". it made me feel hopeful again. I thank you for giving me a shred of the innocence that I had on September 10th back, I have been needing it."
You see, I believe that comparing President Bush (whom I dislike with the urgency of dhiarrhea filled bowels riding pillion on an old Harley on a bumpy dirt road.) to "Infallible Leader" not only fails to be constructive but also tends to oversimplify the plight of people like the woman who wrote above.
Personally, I find the world too complex for your simple moral superiority to adequately explain it.
I failed to oppose the war in Iraq at the time it was started. Probably you were wiser.
The war is an immense tragedy that has destabilized the world in ways that we are yet to begin to understand. This war has and will continue to destroy countless lives.
I have my own theory as to why we are there (and it isn't germane to this discussion). However, why we are there doesn't matter any more. We are there. That is a fact.
Looking at history no one has ever successfully fought a war on that particular piece of land (I have often used the example of Trajan and Hadrian to try to illustrate this point). With that premise in mind my concerns are these:
a.) Since it is obvious that we must leave, how can we do so without further destabilizing the region, ceding the territory to Iran and chaos (as we similarly did when we left Vietnam),
b.) How do we give some kind of honor to the men & women (American and Iraqi) who served and are serving. What do we tell the families who lost their sons and daughters? (There are a number of servicemen on this site - some of them are posting from Iraq, many have returned dislocated and disoriented. At least one of us, Dancerjack (whom I adore) is considering enlisting. Sorry, I know that there are many more people who have suffered from this catastrophe, but I do care a lot about those particular men and women.)
"When talking about intended malice inflicted on a society" That is a big statement (and not a very specific one). I am going to guess that you mean that President Bush intended malice on the society of Iraq and/or on our own society.
This is where I think it is worth considering not stretching it. Yes I do (somewhat as Dante described) believe that there is a hierarchy of evil.
Evil may be (and very often is) the unintended consequence of action taken in ignorance for the perceived benefit of the nation, or the world, etc. Just as the old addage says, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
I don't really know what President Bush and his Administration thought they were doing. Neither do I believe it really matters any longer.
What I would like to see is President Bush out of office (something that is inevitable in any case) and some action taken to bring our troops home. Frankly, I haven't got a clue how that can happen (and I strongly suspect that it will not happen no matter who next occupies the Oval Office).
It is possible that people acting in good conscience can disagree and make colossal mistakes in judgement. Equally, it is possible that passion can trump temperance when shielded behind a keyboard and the abstraction of a network.
What I don't like about our little forum nook is that dissenters who are in good faith (some people I reckon are on here just to cause trouble and I leave them out) like John (who gets off on this kind of interaction, and that is different than bad faith) or Stonecoldfoxboy (who I reckon is well able to defend himself) are routinely pounced upon. Why is that necessary?
If your argument is so logical and water tight that it will float, why does it need so vociferous & hyperbolic hystrionics in order to be heard?
try telling that to people who had family and/or friends who were killed on 9/11
or maybe some of the over 100,000 people killed in Iraq
or the over a million who are still refugees living in Jordan and Syria
When talking about intended malice inflicted on a society ... are we now going to debate a hierarchy of evil?