A Park Of Counted Sorrows

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    Sep 24, 2012 3:52 PM GMT

    We thought this topic inappropriate for the main forum of all things gay, so have started it here.

    This weekend, we had the pleasure of hosting and mentoring our 18 year old nephew. We hadn't seen Dan for 2 years and he's now a man. He has a great girlfriend. He's in University.

    While talking to him he started peppering us about our relationship, and something interesting came up. Our park of counted sorrows.

    Bill and I, for the first 9 years, often drove to a park at night (Memorial Park South) at 41st & Chester, for those that know Vancouver. We'd sit in the truck, relaxing in each others' presence, and talk of any and all hurts we'd ever experienced, what we learned from them, and talked about each of our daily experiences. We were bleshing, blending and meshing at the same time, lol.
    We'd offer each other insights to give each other a boost and to help each other navigate though our emotional seas.

    So here is our park in spirit, which we'd like to share with you. Have a seat. icon_wink.gif

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    Sep 24, 2012 4:05 PM GMT

    Neediness and clingy.

    This was a sorrow that was also a private joke.
    What we discovered gave us a small powerful surge of excitement, like any whaddaya know discovery can do, when you discover what others have been feeding you is off the mark.

    Both of us had a history of being labelled needy by some, yet by others that 'neediness' was a slice of heaven that made them feel cherished and well loved.

    At one time or another, before we met, we'd crashed on some pretty awful reefs, feeling needy and in a state of yearning that we'd been taught was wrong.

    However, after meeting, we found out that our past needinesses were triggered by those that liked the needing, but somehow had learned an odd habit of pulling back in order to maintain that needing, and as one guy told me, "If I need you the way you need me, you'll get sated and won't need me anymore."

    So then, we discovered that they were, in all their cool aloofness and self contained bravado, really the needy ones.


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    Sep 24, 2012 4:14 PM GMT

    Falling in love too fast.

    This was an interesting one as well. We met on a Saturday and by the following Tuesday were admitting to each other that little old word. Or rather, those little three words.

    Some of our bosses and coworkers (all straight) were completely thrilled. Our late arrivals at work after staying up talking in bed til 4am were not only tolerated, but thought sweet, and these people directly expressed being happy for us, and encouraged us.

    Our gay circles, though, were an entirely different matter. We were met with a few raised eyebrows, a few were angry, a few scoffed, a few gave us pitying looks and called us clingy, needy, codependent and a host of interesting ills.

    It took us by surprise, and inevitably we began shifting our presence towards those that supported rather than denigrated this huge adventure we were on.

    This sorrow was the sorrow of not being understood and being ostracized.

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    Sep 26, 2012 8:07 PM GMT
    Tokens and trophies.

    Sitting one night in the dark, holding hands, we were watching shooting stars.
    Bill spoke of his past relationship and the still raw edges of it. As I listened I felt a deep twang, like a subterranean bell, of recognition.

    Both of us had been trophies.
    Tokens of what someone else wanted in a relationship, so they held each of us captive with dangled carrots of intimacy and kept us yearning for reciprocated need.
    Why? Because they didn't love us. They wanted us because of what each of us represented. We had all the right qualities and looks, but for them there was no spark. We were, in some odd way, status symbols.

    Our feelings were the snares by which we were kept.

    I said to Bill, grinning, "We were just something cool, 'ta haaaave'. "
    We both burst out laughing, realizing that we would never do this to each other, that having been through that awful trip, we were deeply appreciative of how much relationships require nurturing, and that this nurturing had to come from a true place of love and not coercive manoeuvring with the intent of possession.
    On later visits we were to talk about another discovery, that some wanted to have a trophy couple for friends. They didn't love us, but what we stood for.

    PS Apologies for being so slow at getting these out, but we are now both recently retired (kinda young I know but we worked hard for it) and as we approach our 23rd anniversary of meeting in November '89, we're revisiting the most powerful moments in our past together, much like finding a box of cherished mementos and fishing them out one by one.









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    Sep 27, 2012 4:40 AM GMT
    Under ...Falling in love too fast..you said..

    "Our gay circles, though, were an entirely different matter. We were met with a few raised eyebrows, a few were angry, a few scoffed, a few gave us pitying looks and called us clingy, needy, codependent and a host of interesting ills.

    It took us by surprise, and inevitably we began shifting our presence towards those that supported rather than denigrated this huge adventure we were on.

    This sorrow was the sorrow of not being understood and being ostracized."
    ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
    Are you implying ..the negativity you faced from you gay circle of friends actually strenghtened your relationship with your partner..??

    ..Did you end up eliminating friends because of their judgemental stances?

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    Sep 27, 2012 4:53 AM GMT
    No, that didn't strengthen it; it was already there.

    No, we didn't eliminate them , really it was a matter of them eliminating us, lol.
    We just didn't fit. One night celebrating seven years we were at a club in Vancouver. A guy asked us to an after hours racy party.

    *looks up sex in dictionary under c* Yes there would probably be cex. Er, sex.

    We declined, saying it was our 7 year anniv.

    ..he asked if something was wrong with this really concerned expression.

    icon_lol.gif

    And yes, we know it's just some people. icon_wink.gif


    You're so sweet for asking.

    -Doug
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    Sep 27, 2012 5:24 AM GMT
    ...I am always interested in the Journey of Doug and Bill..I think you have used every aspect of your relationship and your lives to enlighten others..

    ..Forgive me for getting a tad defensive when i hear some of your "Friends" were being obnoxious and judgemental..!
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    Sep 27, 2012 1:28 PM GMT
    Anocxu said...I am always interested in the Journey of Doug and Bill..I think you have used every aspect of your relationship and your lives to enlighten others..

    ..Forgive me for getting a tad defensive when i hear some of your "Friends" were being obnoxious and judgemental..!


    icon_redface.gif

    You know, we had some of that here when we joined. lol, unicorns they called us.
    There were times when we eliminated people from our lives. A relationship has enough challenges without others poking at you with sticks of their doubt and in some cases, sticks with little wedges on the end so they can get you apart in order to get a chance with one or the other of us.

    There are a lot of monogamous couples here. In the search function for the US only there are over 3,000. You just don't see them posting here putting themselves in the public eye. In some cases there's good reasons for that. icon_wink.gif
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    Sep 27, 2012 9:55 PM GMT
    I lost a close friend after meeting my second BF..He really pushed my buttons... One of those peeps that are cool with you as long as you are on the same "Ship of misery" but as soon as you get off at the next port..
    ooohh..he could hardly contain his jealousy!!
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    Sep 27, 2012 10:11 PM GMT
    Anocxu saidI lost a close friend after meeting my second BF..He really pushed my buttons... One of those peeps that are cool with you as long as you are on the same "Ship of misery" but as soon as you get off at the next port..
    ooohh..he could hardly contain his jealousy!!


    It's really too bad..

    Intimacy often develops better without an audience. icon_wink.gif



  • Kriss

    Posts: 690

    Oct 01, 2012 1:52 AM GMT
    This is really sad and hope inspiring at the same time being young and recently discovering more to myself without my actual family full backing me life is rough. I know I'm not ready for a relationship probably financially and emotionally but we have those dark nights where we lay there and think where is my life going? Will I even find someone or at the end of my time will I simply be alone? I hope even if I do end up alone I can be loving and caring to those that matter to me. Seriously and if I do find the person to share my joys and misery with it ends with happy days. Randomly clicked on this and usually I try not to reveal too much about personal things online but this really got me thinking maybe their is something down the road. So thank both of you for sharing this.
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    Oct 01, 2012 2:47 AM GMT

    Krisle1 said, "Will I even find someone..."

    I think so. icon_wink.gif Hey if average us can...icon_wink.gif

    warmly,

    -Doug