...once you look at the internal numbers...they suggest Ryan has done enormous damage to the ticket.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 29, 2012 11:38 PM GMT
    "...a set of polls, conducted by Quinnipiac, assessing the state of the race in Ohio and Florida. The top-line numbers were jaw-dropping enough: Obama’s lead in Ohio grew from six to ten over the last month, and from three to nine in Florida. (It’s better to focus on the change here than the magnitude, which is highly sensitive to polling methodology.) But once you look at the internal numbers, they’re even less kind to Romney. More to the point, they suggest Ryan has done enormous damage to the ticket.

    ...

    Interestingly, the early post-Ryan polling actually showed the GOP ticket gaining ground on Medicare, if only by disingenuously accusing Obama of cutting $716 billion from the program to pay for healthcare reform. (Ryan had proposed identical cuts, except in his case they would have been refunded to the wealthy as tax cuts.) But that that was before the Democrats joined the fight. Since then, the Dems have relentlessly attacked the Ryan plan, both at their convention and on the campaign trail, and the numbers have followed suit. It’s hard to believe Obama would have had the success he’s had here without Ryan himself on the ticket.

    So, yes, the “47 percent” is a big deal. But the likely upshot is to prevent Romney from getting up off the mat, not to knock him down in the first place. It’s Ryan who deserves credit for that. "

    http://www.tnr.com/blog/107829/47-was-bad-romney-ryan-has-been-deadly#
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Sep 30, 2012 3:20 PM GMT
    I wish more analysis could be done about the Congressional TEA Party Republics. TEA Party approval is down to about 25% and it would be refreshing to see the T.P. flushed out, along with Paul Ryan.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Sep 30, 2012 3:31 PM GMT
    Suffice to say that Romney/Ryan have their work cut out for them, and it's a tall order for sure, to effectively explain the 47% comment, cut through the rhetoric, and lay out a plan to the American people that is easy to understand and, most importantly, that makes sense and is believable. A great deal is riding on the 4 debates (3 Presidential, 1 Vice Presidential). Anyone who thinks Obama has this thing locked up already going into the debates does so at their own peril. These races can, and have in the past, turned on a dime. I will agree, however, that one major gaffe by Romney in any of the debates could spell disaster. However, the Democrats and media will likely define "Gaffe" differently than the voters do. It should also be noted that most Americans, with the debates beginning, are only just now really starting to pay attention.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Sep 30, 2012 3:37 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidSuffice to say that Romney/Ryan have their work cut out for them, and it's a tall order for sure, to effectively explain the 47% comment, cut through the rhetoric, and lay out a plan to the American people that is easy to understand and, most importantly, that makes sense and is believable.


    That's the problem. Mitt Romney, the flip-flopper, doesn't even believe himself. This was always just an ambition for him. And it could also be too impossible to explain because a lot of the Republican message is based on myth. Americans just aren't buying it. If it were the other way around, Ryan/Romney, they would be losing just as badly, which is the gist of this story Caslon shared.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Sep 30, 2012 3:40 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidA great deal is riding on the 4 debates (3 Presidential, 1 Vice Presidential). Anyone who thinks Obama has this thing locked up already going into the debates does so at their own peril. These races can, and have in the past, turned on a dime. I will agree, however, that one major gaffe by Romney in any of the debates could spell disaster.


    I don't think anything is a lock, but Obama owns the political trend and Romney cannot beat that. Only Obama can beat himself at this point.
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Sep 30, 2012 4:08 PM GMT
    romney has instinctively made all the wrong moves throughout this this election cycle and his last attempt in 08, if the way he's run his campaign is any indication of the "clear decisive leadership" he'd bring to the presidency...no thanks

    he managed to pick the only guy who hurts him in FL (with all seniors actually) doesn't help him in OH, and now it looks like Ryan isn't even helping in WI. brilliant executive decision.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Sep 30, 2012 4:53 PM GMT
    thadjock saidromney has instinctively made all the wrong moves throughout this this election cycle

    he managed to pick the only guy who hurts him in FL (with all seniors actually) doesn't help him in OH, and now it looks like Ryan isn't even helping in WI. brilliant executive decision.



    I will agree with you 100% that Romney has seemingly run an ineffective campaign, with blunders that were, to say the very least, unnecessary. That said, should he win this election those blunders will look meaningless. As for the Ryan choice for V.P., and whether or not this helped or hurt, right now it's all kind of a matter of opinion. We won't really know for sure until election night. If Romney/Ryan pull this out, of course, it will look like a brilliant choice.
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    Sep 30, 2012 5:36 PM GMT
    I dont think these campaigns are going to be so vulnerable to gaffes in the debates. R&R have really painted themselves into a serious corner. No little mis-sighs or looking at a wristwatch or little quip is going to undo the serious positions taken publicly and privately by R&R.

    I've read that Romney is memorizing little zingers for the debates. Sounds dangerous....may be taken as too superficial and high-schoolish. But more to the point, zingers arent going to address the perceptions people have already formed from R&R's statements and speeches.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1980

    Sep 30, 2012 6:28 PM GMT
    I was baffled when Romney chose Ryan, because it seemed so astonishingly stupid at the time. Ryan's ideas on the budget and phasing out Medicare are radical in the worst way. Politically speaking, Ryan is toxic waste. Romney was already a very weak candidate, but he really doomed his chances when he picked Ryan.
    The good news is that the nation is finally focusing on the real Tea Party agenda of gutting social programs to pay for tax cuts for millionaires, and the nation is saying F*CK YOU.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Sep 30, 2012 6:35 PM GMT
    Caslon21000 said
    I've read that Romney is memorizing little zingers for the debates. Sounds dangerous....may be taken as too superficial and high-schoolish.



    You can bet that Obama will be delivering a few ZINGERS of his own
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Sep 30, 2012 7:55 PM GMT
    Ryan has already abandonded ship:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/26/paul-ryan-ad-house-seat_n_1915696.html

    if this isnt' a sign of trouble i'm not sure what is.......even your own VP pick thinks he needs a backup plan.

    maybe Ryan should call Sarah Palin and get her entertainment lawyer's number. She went rogue on McCain b4 the election too.....

    republicans must be fans of roman tragedy.
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    Oct 01, 2012 2:14 AM GMT
    jprichva said
    bostonsam said
    I'm sure the extreme leftists members of my Democratic party on here will be trotting that one out soon.....

    Not sure which country's "Democratic Party" you belong to. You certainly aren't a member of the one here in the United States.




    BostonSam/Southbeach has been wasting a lot of his time lately posting here.
    He's not fooling anyone - but he's certainly entertaining.
    icon_lol.gif
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    Oct 01, 2012 2:32 AM GMT
    Considering the facts of what Ryan's budget plan would do - it's not surprising that the Ryan pick has been so damaging to Romney's chances.

    http://m.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/07/964060/-CBO-Seniors-would-pay-most-of-their-income-for-healthcare-under-Ryan-Medicare-plan

    The one voting block that Romney held a strong lead with was older voters.
    But now the Ryan plan to end Medicare and replace it with a stingy voucher plan has driven older voters away from the Romney/Ryan ticket.

    Picking Ryan was an epically stupid decision.
    I was having dinner with friends when I got a text about Ryan getting the VP nod.
    We ordered a bottle of champagne and we toasted to the stupidity of Mitt.

    Actually the Ryan pick has been even worse for Romney than I expected.
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    Oct 01, 2012 2:43 AM GMT
    bostonsam said
    RickRick91 saidConsidering the facts of what Ryan's budget plan would do - it's not surprising that the Ryan pick has been so damaging to Romney's chances.

    [url]http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/representative-ryan-proposes-medicare-plan-under-which-seniors-would-pay-most-of-their-income-for-health-care?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+beat_the_press+%28Beat+the+Press%29[/url]

    The one voting block that Romney held a strong lead with was older voters.
    But now the Ryan plan to end Medicare and replace it with a stingy voucher plan has driven older voters away from the Romney/Ryan ticket.

    Picking Ryan was an epically stupid decision.
    I was having dinner with friends when I got a text about Ryan getting the VP nod.
    We ordered a bottle of champagne and we toasted to the stupidity of Mitt.

    Actually the Ryan pick has been even worse for Romney than I expected.


    I really have no opinion either way. But in your expert opinion, who would have been an "epically" smart decision?




    Romney didn't even need to make a smart pick, Southbeach.
    Any of the other contenders would've been fine.
    Even someone boring like Pawlenty.

    But picking someone who drives away older voters and who hands the Democrats a huge advantage on the Medicare issue was a disaster.
    It shows extremely poor judgment.
    It's just plain dumb.

    Romney has offended too many voting blocks to be able to win.
    It all stems from the fact that he started out with the insane idea of writing off 47% of the country.


  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Oct 01, 2012 2:50 AM GMT
    bostonsam said
    I really have no opinion either way. But in your expert opinion, who would have been an "epically" smart decision?


    Bill Clinton. icon_wink.gif
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    Oct 01, 2012 3:00 AM GMT
    bostonsam said
    RickRick91 said
    bostonsam said
    RickRick91 saidConsidering the facts of what Ryan's budget plan would do - it's not surprising that the Ryan pick has been so damaging to Romney's chances.

    [url]http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/representative-ryan-proposes-medicare-plan-under-which-seniors-would-pay-most-of-their-income-for-health-care?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+beat_the_press+%28Beat+the+Press%29[/url]

    The one voting block that Romney held a strong lead with was older voters.
    But now the Ryan plan to end Medicare and replace it with a stingy voucher plan has driven older voters away from the Romney/Ryan ticket.

    Picking Ryan was an epically stupid decision.
    I was having dinner with friends when I got a text about Ryan getting the VP nod.
    We ordered a bottle of champagne and we toasted to the stupidity of Mitt.

    Actually the Ryan pick has been even worse for Romney than I expected.


    I really have no opinion either way. But in your expert opinion, who would have been an "epically" smart decision?




    Romney didn't even need to make a smart pick, Southbeach.
    Any of the other contenders would've been fine.
    Even someone boring like Pawlenty.

    But picking someone who drives away older voters and who hands the Democrats a huge advantage on the Medicare issue was a disaster.
    It shows extremely poor judgment.
    It's just plain dumb.

    Romney has offended too many voting blocks to be able to win.
    It all stems from the fact that he started out with the insane idea of writing off 47% of the country.




    I do wonder though if no matter who Romney picked, you and the half dozen other extreme leftists on here would be signing the same tune.

    As for the south beach thing, I give up. There's no way I can persuade delusional people that I am not some figment of their imagination, so just keep it up if it keeps you "settled."




    LOL - not so much.
    FYI - none of the other VP contenders proposed ending Medicare and replacing it with a skimpy voucher plan that would force seniors to pay thousands more for their health care costs.
    Only Paul Ryan.

    And you call the progressives who post here on RJ "extreme leftists" - and claim to be a Democrat?
    And you expect people to believe that?

    You're delusional, Southbeach.
    icon_lol.gif
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    Oct 01, 2012 3:00 AM GMT
    bostonsam saidAs for the south beach thing, I give up. There's no way I can persuade delusional people that I am not some figment of their imagination, so just keep it up if it keeps you "settled."

    Very easy to put it to rest so you put it behind you and just post as the person you claim to be. Verify yourself. Post the pic with the 'RealJock 123' sign. One way that is quite difficult to fake is to post a video saying your profile name. I and many others did and posted a video in a thread. You could end this controversy very quickly.
  • DR2K

    Posts: 346

    Oct 01, 2012 3:03 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidSuffice to say that Romney/Ryan have their work cut out for them, and it's a tall order for sure, to effectively explain the 47% comment, cut through the rhetoric, and lay out a plan to the American people that is easy to understand and, most importantly, that makes sense and is believable. A great deal is riding on the 4 debates (3 Presidential, 1 Vice Presidential). Anyone who thinks Obama has this thing locked up already going into the debates does so at their own peril. These races can, and have in the past, turned on a dime. I will agree, however, that one major gaffe by Romney in any of the debates could spell disaster. However, the Democrats and media will likely define "Gaffe" differently than the voters do. It should also be noted that most Americans, with the debates beginning, are only just now really starting to pay attention.


    How you you lie on stage when your opponent will fact check the shit out of you? This will be the most one sided debate in the history of politics.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Oct 01, 2012 3:09 AM GMT
    Ryan's BIG mistake was thinking he could lie to the voters about Social Security and Medicare.

    He tries to reassure voters by saying, "Oh, the voucher plan is just for people 55 or under."

    WELL, PEOPLE 55 OR UNDER DON'T WANT A WORTHLESS COUPON FOR HEALTHCARE, EITHER.

    And, Romney's BIG mistake was knowing about Ryan's voucher plan, AND PICKING HIM, ANYWAY.

    6olis5.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 01, 2012 3:38 AM GMT
    Webster666 saidRyan's BIG mistake was thinking he could lie to the voters about Social Security and Medicare.

    He tries to reassure voters by saying, "Oh, the voucher plan is just for people 55 or under."

    WELL, PEOPLE 55 OR UNDER DON'T WANT A WORTHLESS COUPON FOR HEALTHCARE, EITHER.

    And, Romney's BIG mistake was knowing about Ryan's voucher plan, AND PICKING HIM, ANYWAY.

    6olis5.jpg





    Maybe Mitt thought that picking Ryan wouldn't hurt him because the folks who depend on SS and Medicare are part of the 47% who were never going to vote for Mittens anyway.

    But Mitt's strategy for trying to win this election was flawed from the start.
    His disdain for half the country caused him to write off too many voters.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 01, 2012 5:55 PM GMT
    bostonsam said
    Iceblink said
    bostonsam saidAs for the south beach thing, I give up. There's no way I can persuade delusional people that I am not some figment of their imagination, so just keep it up if it keeps you "settled."

    Very easy to put it to rest so you put it behind you and just post as the person you claim to be. Verify yourself. Post the pic with the 'RealJock 123' sign. One way that is quite difficult to fake is to post a video saying your profile name. I and many others did and posted a video in a thread. You could end this controversy very quickly.


    Short memory, huh? I'm not doing ANYTHING to please you extreme leftists.

    Yeah, it's not that you won't prove you are this person, it's that you can't.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 01, 2012 9:25 PM GMT
    Iceblink said
    bostonsam said
    Iceblink said
    bostonsam saidAs for the south beach thing, I give up. There's no way I can persuade delusional people that I am not some figment of their imagination, so just keep it up if it keeps you "settled."

    Very easy to put it to rest so you put it behind you and just post as the person you claim to be. Verify yourself. Post the pic with the 'RealJock 123' sign. One way that is quite difficult to fake is to post a video saying your profile name. I and many others did and posted a video in a thread. You could end this controversy very quickly.


    Short memory, huh? I'm not doing ANYTHING to please you extreme leftists.

    Yeah, it's not that you won't prove you are this person, it's that you can't.




    Of course not.
    BostonSam is Southbeach.

    And SB (as BostonSam) is using the same lame tactic he used as SB of trying to claim that he's a Democrat and that he's not a Repub partisan - even though he posts nothing but anti-Obama and anti-Dem talking points.

    Instead of repeatedly using the words "liberal hens" - SB (as BostonSam) is using the words "radical leftists' over and over again.

    Same old SB tricks.
    Same old BS.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 02, 2012 1:34 AM GMT
    RickRick91 said
    jprichva said
    bostonsam said
    I'm sure the extreme leftists members of my Democratic party on here will be trotting that one out soon.....

    Not sure which country's "Democratic Party" you belong to. You certainly aren't a member of the one here in the United States.




    BostonSam/Southbeach has been wasting a lot of his time lately posting here.
    He's not fooling anyone - but he's certainly entertaining.
    icon_lol.gif



    Thank you for calling this...person...out! So, tired of the transparent Fox "News" rhetoric from his ridiculous posts...icon_rolleyes.gif

    Also agree that Ryan was a phenomenally stupid choice...I think they thought since they keep trying to cram the GOP up every women's uterus like a tampon, they'd pick an attractive wrapper...fortunately, he's as substantial as a wrapper...