Paul Ryan: 'It Would Take Me Too Long' To Explain Mitt Romney's Tax Plan

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    Sep 30, 2012 5:32 PM GMT
    Actually, notice Ryan starts to tell the truth, but catches himself...

    "“You haven’t given me the math,” Wallace said in one exchange.

    “I don’t have the ... It would take me too long to go through all of the math,” Ryan responded."


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/30/paul-ryan-tax-plan-mitt-romney_n_1926660.html
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    Sep 30, 2012 7:01 PM GMT
    He's already explained it. Lowers overall taxes and cuts out the loopholes.
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    Sep 30, 2012 8:26 PM GMT
    bostonsam saidThis is what really aggravates me, when I see so many of my fellow Obama-supporters...

    Fellow Obama supporters? You support Obama? Wonderful!!! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 30, 2012 9:03 PM GMT
    mocktwinkles saidHe's already explained it. Lowers overall taxes and cuts out the loopholes.



    Romney/Ryan want to cut taxes on the rich by twice as much as Bush did - and increase defense spending more than has been requested by the defense department.

    They've offered no credible specific way to offset these massive revenue losses and wasteful spending.
    Just a bunch of bullshit fantasy world nonsense about closing NON-SPECIFIED loopholes that could never offset the trillions of debt they would add.

    It's just more of the "fuzzy math" Bush economics policies that blew up the National Debt and wrecked the economy.

    NO THANKS.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Oct 01, 2012 3:38 AM GMT
    mocktwinkles saidHe's already explained it. Lowers overall taxes and cuts out the loopholes.



    But, both Romney and Ryan refuse to say WHICH loopholes.
    You can be damn sure that they won't be loopholes that are taken advantage of by the wealthy.
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    Oct 01, 2012 3:57 AM GMT
    mocktwinkles saidHe's already explained it. Lowers overall taxes and cuts out the loopholes.

    It kinda ironic that you say he's already explained cuz they refuse to explain those loopholes too.
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    Oct 01, 2012 3:57 AM GMT
    mocktwinkles saidHe's already explained it. Lowers overall taxes and cuts out the loopholes.

    It kinda ironic that you say he's already explained cuz they refuse to explain those loopholes too.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Oct 01, 2012 4:09 AM GMT
    Another point about their lack of specifics gimmick on loopholes (and more importantly deductions) is that many of these only apply to a handful of people.

    For example: There is a deduction for having a private jet. How many people have a private jet?

    Another example: How many people use a horse as a medical exemption, let alone have a horse?

    The spotlight shines brightly on the curtain of non-specifics than on the idea they purport. That is why they lose on that argument. Amateurs....
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    Oct 01, 2012 5:51 AM GMT
    Ryan just didn't want to state the truth about what he and Mitt want to do.
    Cut taxes on the rich by twice as much as Bush did - and pay for it by raising taxes on the middle class and by ending Medicare and privatizing Social Security.

    Ryan and Romney want to help the rich get richer - and they want to make the middle class foot the bill for it.
    But they certainly don't want to admit that publicly before the election.
    icon_wink.gif
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Oct 01, 2012 7:08 AM GMT
    RickRick91 said
    mocktwinkles saidHe's already explained it. Lowers overall taxes and cuts out the loopholes.



    Romney/Ryan want to cut taxes on the rich by twice as much as Bush did - and increase defense spending more than has been requested by the defense department.

    They've offered no credible specific way to offset these massive revenue losses and wasteful spending.
    Just a bunch of bullshit fantasy world nonsense about closing NON-SPECIFIED loopholes that could never offset the trillions of debt they would add.

    It's just more of the "fuzzy math" Bush economics policies that blew up the National Debt and wrecked the economy.

    NO THANKS.


    And I'm developing a schoolboy crush icon_redface.gif
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    Oct 01, 2012 11:24 AM GMT
    jprichva saidThis is really about their customary arrogance.

    "It would take too long to explain the math to you, since we'd have to start out by teaching you the multiplication tables, and also how to use your pencil. and, um, not to eat your crayons, etc."

    As I pointed out at the beginning, it is their arrogance. They don't know the math. There is no math that makes this work.
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    Oct 01, 2012 11:59 AM GMT
    Paul Ryan is a douche.
  • DalTX

    Posts: 612

    Oct 01, 2012 1:24 PM GMT
    Vulture/Voucher: Trust us, we'll fill in the details later...
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    Oct 01, 2012 1:34 PM GMT
    smartmoney saidPaul Ryan is a douche.


    Nothing like being able to successfully flush out the shitty people and clean up house!
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    Oct 01, 2012 1:47 PM GMT
    I meant he spends most of his day sucked up inside Romneys asshole and at the end of the day, all he is able to do is spew bullshit and smile like he is speaking some form of mindless gospel that only Fox News sheep seem to be able to understand.
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    Oct 01, 2012 2:05 PM GMT
    smartmoney saidI meant he spends most of his day sucked up inside Romneys asshole and at the end of the day, all he is able to do is spew bullshit and smile like he is speaking some form of mindless gospel that only Fox News sheep seem to be able to understand.


    Actually he's extremely smart and actually cares about this country, unlike many other politicians who would rather sidestep the tough issues and decision making processes in order to protect their political careers. Unless we start getting more people like Ryan in there we will end up like Greece. Keeping things "as is" and just raising taxes isn't going to solve the problems that will be coming down on us very quickly.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Oct 01, 2012 6:33 PM GMT
    mocktwinkles said
    smartmoney saidI meant he spends most of his day sucked up inside Romneys asshole and at the end of the day, all he is able to do is spew bullshit and smile like he is speaking some form of mindless gospel that only Fox News sheep seem to be able to understand.


    Actually he's extremely smart and actually cares about this country, unlike many other politicians who would rather sidestep the tough issues and decision making processes in order to protect their political careers. Unless we start getting more people like Ryan in there we will end up like Greece. Keeping things "as is" and just raising taxes isn't going to solve the problems that will be coming down on us very quickly.


    And how many blank checks did Ryan assist in writing for Bush?


    "Oh, you kidder!"
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    Oct 01, 2012 8:02 PM GMT
    mocktwinkles said
    smartmoney saidI meant he spends most of his day sucked up inside Romneys asshole and at the end of the day, all he is able to do is spew bullshit and smile like he is speaking some form of mindless gospel that only Fox News sheep seem to be able to understand.


    Actually he's extremely smart and actually cares about this country, unlike many other politicians who would rather sidestep the tough issues and decision making processes in order to protect their political careers. Unless we start getting more people like Ryan in there we will end up like Greece. Keeping things "as is" and just raising taxes isn't going to solve the problems that will be coming down on us very quickly.




    Paul Ryan is "smart"?
    If he was smart his numbers would add up.
    They DON'T.

    He "actually cares about this country"?
    Just like Mitt - Ryan only cares about a small portion of the country - the rich.
    He gives them large permanent tax cuts.
    But Ryan certainly doesn't care about seniors.
    If he cared about them he wouldn't propose ending Medicare and replacing it with a stingy voucher system that would only cover about 65% of what Medicare currently covers - forcing seniors living on a small fixed income to pay thousands more for their healthcare costs.
    And the fact that Ryan wants to end Medicare in order to pay for the huge tax cuts for the rich he advocates makes Ryan's idea to end Medicare especially offensive and immoral.

    No - Paul Ryan is neither smart nor caring.
    Quite the opposite.
    He's a bullshit artist - not a smart guy.
    And he's a cold-hearted selfish Ayn Rand devotee - he only cares about himself.
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    Oct 01, 2012 11:54 PM GMT
    mocktwinkles saidHe's already explained it. Lowers overall taxes and cuts out the loopholes.


    If it's that simple, why did he say it would take too long to go through all of the math?
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    Oct 01, 2012 11:56 PM GMT
    Funny. . . for a numbers guy who reportedly loves to get in the weeds. . . he has done everything imaginable to escape any description of details on this issue.
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    Oct 02, 2012 3:33 PM GMT
    RickRick91 said
    mocktwinkles said
    smartmoney saidI meant he spends most of his day sucked up inside Romneys asshole and at the end of the day, all he is able to do is spew bullshit and smile like he is speaking some form of mindless gospel that only Fox News sheep seem to be able to understand.


    Actually he's extremely smart and actually cares about this country, unlike many other politicians who would rather sidestep the tough issues and decision making processes in order to protect their political careers. Unless we start getting more people like Ryan in there we will end up like Greece. Keeping things "as is" and just raising taxes isn't going to solve the problems that will be coming down on us very quickly.




    Paul Ryan is "smart"?
    If he was smart his numbers would add up.
    They DON'T.

    He "actually cares about this country"?
    Just like Mitt - Ryan only cares about a small portion of the country - the rich.
    He gives them large permanent tax cuts.
    But Ryan certainly doesn't care about seniors.
    If he cared about them he wouldn't propose ending Medicare and replacing it with a stingy voucher system that would only cover about 65% of what Medicare currently covers - forcing seniors living on a small fixed income to pay thousands more for their healthcare costs.
    And the fact that Ryan wants to end Medicare in order to pay for the huge tax cuts for the rich he advocates makes Ryan's idea to end Medicare especially offensive and immoral.

    No - Paul Ryan is neither smart nor caring.
    Quite the opposite.
    He's a bullshit artist - not a smart guy.
    And he's a cold-hearted selfish Ayn Rand devotee - he only cares about himself.


    The main problem I have with Paul Ryan's plan is that it doesn't go deep enough or extreme enough, but even with his moderate plan Democrats are trying to portray him as the devil incarnate.

    Let's say that in order to fix our problems we need to slash spending and make cuts by doing Z. Paul Ryan is only proposing that we go to J rather than A (which means do nothing). So in the end, Paul Ryan's plan is STILL going to result in debt and deficits in our future. Problem is, Democrats don't even want to SOMEWHAT fix the problem, they don't want to even remotely come up with a plan or alternative except for A, which means they are essentially advocates of ENDING them. It must be wonderful living in denial and then vocally attacking the rich in order to win an election. Democrats have it much easier, because they are generally appearing to want to "give" something to people that can't always be given for a long period of time.

    Paul Ryan expressed that it would take too long to go over all the math behind his plan in one interview. That's perfectly reasonable. But only someone like you would take a reasonable comment and think that it's outrageous. Now if someone asked him to come out with some sort of treatise with ballpark figures, that would be reasonable.

    I'll tell you what's really outrageous though, knowing that Social Security and Medicare as we know them today will end if no action is taken and being satisfied with that idea. So what does that mean? that means that soon they will go insolvent, nonexistent, poof. So, do you want to get rid of them or do you want to save them? If you propose not going through with Ryan's plan and simply not touching the programs then what you really want is for them to die. You basically want seniors to not have ANYTHING in the years to come rather than something inferior but sustainable. When someone doesn't have any money and they promise their children the world, eventually the time will come when their promises have to amount to something realistic, that is what we're dealing with here. In the past liberals have promised benefits to future generations that were not sustainable for the sake of gaining votes. Now that someone is being truthful about them they are all of a sudden a "bad guy".

    Speaking of bullshit, no one over the age of 55 will be affected by the plan, so don't lie about how today's seniors will not still receive all of the benefits that they have been promised. At some point, however, there has to be a cut off. I'm willing to sacrifice my ostensible future "benefits" for the future of these programs. Are you?

    Of course, you think it's as easy as just raising taxes and all of our problems will go away.

    Here's a biased by factually cogent article:

    "For instance, President Obama has seized on the so-called Buffett Rule that calls for higher taxes for "wealthy" Americans. The nonpartisan Tax Foundation looked at this proposal, however, and found it lacking. They wrote, "Taking half of the yearly income from every person making between 1 and 10 million dollars would only decrease the nation's debt by 1%.

    Even taking every last penny from every individual making more than $10 million per year would only reduce the nation's deficit by 12% and the debt by 2%. There's simply not enough wealth in the community of the rich to erase this country's problems by waving some magic tax wand.

    Fortunately, the Senate voted down the Buffett Rule Monday night. Yet the Senate once again wasted America's time to make a political point.

    So why do liberals work so hard to create the perception that "taxing the rich" will solve our problems even though the top 10% of taxpayers already pay 70% of all federal income taxes and many low-income Americans pay no federal taxes at all? Because it's all about the politicians. Liberals believe that inflaming class envy will persuade the American people to elect Democrats over Republicans, who allegedly want to protect tax cuts for the rich. It would be hard to find a more tired and intellectually dishonest argument in American politics today than the idea that we can balance the budget by soaking the rich.

    Republicans, on the other hand, have desecrated the limited-government legacies of Reagan, Goldwater, and our founders by embarking on spending orgies with borrowed money -- a form of deferred taxation and financial repression -- while hiding beyond false pledges of tax purity that have made tax reduction and simplification much more difficult to achieve."
    ----------http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/17/opinion/coburn-tax-reform/index.html

    So keep up with the good work of lying to yourself and everyone else about what is going to solve our problems and keep avoiding the real problem -- that we spend too much goddamn money.

    That being said, if I have to lay aside all of my biases when looking at the matter I would have to admit that the ONLY way we will be able to solve our big problems is by both massively deep cuts (that you would completely oppose) AND a dramatic increase in taxes (that I would feel is capitalistically unfair) -- and for all Americans to agree and unite on these points. I fear that this won't happen as politicians sacrifice everyone for their own political gain.

    Oh but I forgot, we live in a world where only gay marriage matters, not a world where the health of our country matters in terms of long-term pursuit of equality for all of our citizens. What use is securing gay marriage and then collapsing as a cohesive nation even capable of persuading our fellow humans that nothing less than equality for all citizens matters?

    I realize it's so much easier to settle with the simpleton arguments though.

    "Mommy is so mean she won't let me eat candy when I want".

    "WOW, you obviously have a MEAN mommy!!"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 02, 2012 6:00 PM GMT
    "'There's simply not enough wealth in the community of the rich to erase this country's problems by waving some magic tax wand.

    Fortunately, the Senate voted down the Buffett Rule Monday night. Yet the Senate once again wasted America's time to make a political point.'"

    The Buffet Rule wasn't about bringing the deficit or debt down to zero. It was about dealing with the fact that the super rich pay a lower percentage of their personal individual incomes in taxes than many of us wage earning folks.
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    Oct 02, 2012 6:03 PM GMT
    sfbayguy said"'There's simply not enough wealth in the community of the rich to erase this country's problems by waving some magic tax wand.

    Fortunately, the Senate voted down the Buffett Rule Monday night. Yet the Senate once again wasted America's time to make a political point.'"

    The Buffet Rule wasn't about bringing the deficit or debt down to zero. It was about dealing with the fact that the super rich pay a lower percentage of their personal individual incomes in taxes than many of us wage earning folks.


    Really? Do you have evidence that rich people don't pay at least proportionate, if not a greater percentage of their income compared to the rest of the population?

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    Oct 02, 2012 10:18 PM GMT
    total-tax-bill-income.jpg

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/02/this-is-how-you-do-the-math-on-the-romney-ryan-tax-plan/Aside from betraying the principles of policy communication that Ryan once stood for, this response isn’t even true. It doesn’t take very long at all to go through the math. In fact, it’s only a few steps.

    1) In 2015, the Romney-Ryan rate reduction will reduce tax revenue by $480 billion compared to current policy. That’s the raw number, before you start arguing over behavioral responses or growth.

    2) Of that $480 billion, 39.1 percent, or $187 billion, will go to the top 1 percent.

    3) Since the Romney-Ryan plan isn’t supposed to cut taxes on the rich or increase the deficit, all Romney and Ryan need to do is identify $480 billion in tax breaks they’re going to close, of which at least $187 billion needs to come from the top 1 percent.

    4) If they believe that accelerated economic growth or behavioral responses are going to close some of that gap for them, they need to say how much, and what they’re basing that assumption on.

    That’s it. This isn’t advanced calculus. It’s arithmetic.