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Aug 28, 2008 10:06 AM GMT
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I've been in love before and hope to find another great guy someday..but lately I've been reading about young guys who bareback with their partners.
Over the years I have talked to many HIV+ men who said they got it from their old bf whom they thought was monagomous...only to find out too late that he wasn't.
So how far do are you willing to trust you present or (future) boyfriend is a hard to swallow these days along with you meds...
So, what do you guys think?
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Aug 28, 2008 10:26 AM GMT
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Like they say in the X-files.. TRUST NO ONE My brother got HIV from a BF just like massagejock mentioned.. he died last December  |
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Aug 28, 2008 10:29 AM GMT
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Lapinblanc saidMy brother got HIV from a BF just like massagejock mentioned.. he died last December
Sorry for your loss Lapinblanc. I dont think I will ever be able to bareback. I would be way to afraid. Yes I trust my boyfriend but Im not willing to take that risk. |
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Aug 28, 2008 11:17 AM GMT
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To me using condoms isn't a question of trust, it's just what you do. I don't see condoms as a punishment or a negative thing. If two people truly love one another, trust doesn't need to be proved.
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Aug 28, 2008 11:48 AM GMT
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Barebacking is ignorant.
I've done it years ago in a relationship and never will again. Men are men...I'm realistic.
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Aug 28, 2008 1:23 PM GMT
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Dare I wade in? OK. We don't practice safe sex - at this stage of our relationship, and being the kind of people we are, which is HUGE, we feel it unnecessary. Both of us have convictions about monogamy that spring from the deepest part of how we consider ourselves; issues of integrity, self worth, and who we are. We both come from backgrounds where BFs cheated on us, which being the softies we are, devastated both of us. Which gives a clue as why we trust each other the way we do.
I DON'T recommend this to anyone else. I wish we could, but too many are too swift to assume trust and decide unsafe activity is safe and run into astronomical tragedy. This level of trust takes years to build, and involves what many consider a stripping away of each other's privacy. There's also a considerable amount of letting go of one's autonomy, a topic that ran heavily for quite some time on this site. We'll happily share more about this should anyone ask.
We do wish it was possible for everyone, though.
Stay safe!
-Doug
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Aug 28, 2008 1:51 PM GMT
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... and here's more. If one of us had been testing +, likely we would have fallen for each other anyway, and safe sex would be a no-brainer.
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Aug 28, 2008 2:10 PM GMT
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Condoms. Always. No exceptions.
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Aug 28, 2008 2:16 PM GMT
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You guys have sex with other guys? Lucky jerks . . .
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Aug 28, 2008 2:20 PM GMT
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I trust and love my partner and I accept the risk.
After three months of being together monogamously, we went to get tested together, both checked out as clean and stopped using condoms with each other. When we have sex outside the relationship, either together or separately, we use condoms.
The hard truth is that if you're sexually active at all, you have to accept some level of risk. Condoms are not 100% effective; Andrew Sullivan claims to have always used condoms yet was still infected with HIV.
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Aug 28, 2008 2:36 PM GMT
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my bf and i virtually always bareback. we're clean, always have been. 3rd parties always involve a condom. there's no distrust or suspicion, nor any reason for it in our relationship.
i've worked around many hiv+ and hep patients and have gotten their blood on me a few times. you always treat every patient like they've got something and take precautions equally. hiv is still around and in bigger numbers than before. i don't dismiss the possible lethality of it, but it doesn't terrify me.
i suppose it's like any other job whereby you handle something dangerous. some people shy far from it and some people are comfortable working up close. follow the protocols and your likelihood of contraction is small.
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Aug 28, 2008 2:47 PM GMT
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We bareback always, I know where my heart is and I feel I know where his is as well. If I am ever cheated on then that is out of my hands and I can only hope that he would respect me enough to use protection even though the act is still obviously disrespectful.
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Aug 28, 2008 2:59 PM GMT
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Chizzad saidWe bareback always, I know where my heart is and I feel I know where his is as well. If I am ever cheated on then that is out of my hands and I can only hope that he would respect me enough to use protection even though the act is still obviously disrespectful. I feel the exact same way. Nicely put Chizzad! |
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Aug 28, 2008 3:05 PM GMT
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You always feel the same way as me  I think we think alike or something haha. |
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Aug 28, 2008 3:13 PM GMT
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It would take a really long time to build the trust with someone to be able to regularly bareback.
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Aug 28, 2008 3:17 PM GMT
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TexanMan82 saidIt would take a really long time to build the trust with someone to be able to regularly bareback. Yes it is for sure a trust issue, but if you have doubts then you most likely should not be in that relationship. Everyone has their own take on the matter but I prefer to do it the right way, bareback  |
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Aug 28, 2008 3:19 PM GMT
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I think there are a bunch of factors involved in this question...
- How long have you been together?
- Is your relationship monogamous or open?
- What kind of trust level do you have with your partner?
- Does he have a history of being the town slut (I do)?
- And most importatly... HIV status... if you're both poz, on meds and undetectable... then most doctors will tell you there is very little risk. If you're both negative and certain of your trust for each other, then I'd say go for it...
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Aug 28, 2008 3:31 PM GMT
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I bareback with my husband, though there are times we think about condoms not because of any lack of trust but rather other issues. His member is more sensitive and if enough lube isnt used, well lets just say its 2 weeks of no fun. I on the other hand have gotten several UTIs. Not pleasant but Id rather that then an STD.
For me to bareback there has to be a lot more then just trust.
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Aug 28, 2008 4:25 PM GMT
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BigSETXjock saidI think there are a bunch of factors involved in this question...
- How long have you been together?
- Is your relationship monogamous or open?
- What kind of trust level do you have with your partner?
- Does he have a history of being the town slut (I do)?
- And most importatly... HIV status... if you're both poz, on meds and undetectable... then most doctors will tell you there is very little risk. If you're both negative and certain of your trust for each other, then I'd say go for it...
Personally, I disagree with advocating others to "go for it". I am sure that a large percentage of guys who are now positive thought they were certain of their trust for the other person. This is a personal choice, granted, and I respect whatever someone deems is right for himself. However, this is a big decision and not something that should be decided by a series of 4 questions put on a forum board. I know several guys who thought they were in a monogamous relationship and quit using condoms, only to turn up positive later. And as Timberoo put it so well: "To me using condoms isn't a question of trust, it's just what you do. I don't see condoms as a punishment or a negative thing. If two people truly love one another, trust doesn't need to be proved." |
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Aug 28, 2008 4:31 PM GMT
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massagejock saidI've been in love before and hope to find another great guy someday..but lately I've been reading about young guys who bareback with their partners.
Over the years I have talked to many HIV+ men who said they got it from their old bf whom they thought was monagomous...only to find out too late that he wasn't.
So how far do are you willing to trust you present or (future) boyfriend is a hard to swallow these days along with you meds...
So, what do you guys think? DON'T DO IT! I'm sure there are some trustworthy guys out there, but MEN WILL BE MEN. Your health is not worth the risk! |
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Aug 28, 2008 4:52 PM GMT
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Chizzad saidYou always feel the same way as me I think we think alike or something haha. Brother's from a different mother. LOL! |
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Aug 28, 2008 4:53 PM GMT
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This question for me ranks right up there with Abortions, Religion and Politics. No matter what good facts and statistics either side has, no one ever changes their mind and are already set in their ways or how they are going to do things in their own life. Discussing something that fails to persuade either side of change is as effective and taking a road trip on a rocking chair...
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Aug 28, 2008 5:05 PM GMT
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All the above arguments are interesting, have some merit within their personal context...but blanket rules never seem to work out as planned.
london_nyc makes a great salient point: there is always risk. And as human creatures...let's be honest...we enjoy a certain amount of risk in all facets of life. (Why else would I have 'done it' once in a fitting room at Target?!?!) That said, we should never advocate the most obvious risks wagered against our own well being. Converting to bareback in a relationship requires the appropriate communication - the level of which is determined by the persons involved - and education. Education not just about the facts of HIV and sexual health, but the facts about yourself, your emotional state, your life intentions, his life intentions, etc.
So to massagejock...in regard to your questions...I'd ask What do you think? Do you trust your lover? Do you trust yourself to behave in a manner appropriate? Can you accept the risk inherent? Are you educated to the full scope of facts (and not only the opinions of we strangers here and there?)
Myself? Condoms always. The very idea of poo on my peen makes me limp and immediately desexualized. Let alone having it actually happen. Yuck.
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Aug 28, 2008 5:08 PM GMT
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I don't know how else to see it but when you're in a relationship and you feel compelled to use condoms no matter how you word it, but by doing this you are telling your partner that you don't trust him. I say this with the assumption that if you're both negative, you love each other and are looking out for each others' well being. If you have a partner that feels he can readily have sex without condoms outside of the relationship then you need to assess why you care about this person so much in the first place. Personally I believe in monogamy. If I were to have a person betray my trust in this manner I would be very angry. Angry to the point of getting a blow torch and some pliers and perform a sex change on my cheating louse of a spouse's ass "MEDIEVAL STYLE."  |
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Aug 28, 2008 5:10 PM GMT
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massagejock saidSo how far do are you willing to trust you present or (future) boyfriend is a hard to swallow these days along with you meds...
So, what do you guys think? If I ever get a BF (I know it's a pretty far-fetched conditional statement), after a while I'd trust him enough to bareback. I'd also reinforce his behaviors with some healthy reinforcement (i.e. tell him "If you give me HIV, then I will kill you.") |
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Aug 28, 2008 5:13 PM GMT
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It just needs to be fully discussed openly and honestly, regardless of status. Each person should be willing to say what they are willing to risk or not risk.
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Aug 28, 2008 5:15 PM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle saidI don't know how else to see it but when you're in a relationship and you feel compelled to use condoms no matter how you word it, but by doing this you are telling your partner that you don't trust him.
I think it would only be an issue if one wants to use condoms and the other doesn't. I'm 38. My teen years were the same years the world was learning more about HIV and AIDS and that's when I learned that condoms help minimize the risk and that you should always wear a condom. When I had sex with girls, even if they were on the pill or using another method of birth control, I wore a condom. It seems to me that if people weren't so concerned about making someone feel they had their trust, HIV and AIDS wouldn't be the issue it is now. |
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Aug 28, 2008 5:59 PM GMT
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I can't see being in a relationship for a number of years and still be concerned about buying condoms.
I had this debate with a guy years ago in person and he had all these unrealistic requirement. He was such a bitchy little cunt. He wouldn't date hair dressers, or bartenders or flight attendants because they didn't meet his stringent requirements of what he thought a respectable man should be. He categorized them all as overly hyper-sexual people that can't be trusted.
Then he expressed passionately that he would NEVER not use a condom during sex. He's the perfect example of an over controlling miserable person that has no trust in people. He became so cynical because he stupidly and naively trusted a boyfriend that was caught using sex phone lines and prowling online. At first the boyfriend said it was only phone sex or just cyber chat online. So my friend who allowed the situation to escalate went from extremely gullible to bitterly distrustful in a short time.
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Aug 28, 2008 6:14 PM GMT
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Timberoo saidI think it would only be an issue if one wants to use condoms and the other doesn't. I'm 38. My teen years were the same years the world was learning more about HIV and AIDS and that's when I learned that condoms help minimize the risk and that you should always wear a condom. When I had sex with girls, even if they were on the pill or using another method of birth control, I wore a condom. This speaks VOLUMES to the generational divide we often see on opinions relating to this issue. Those of us of a certain time frame were socialized about safe sex quite differently than those before and those after us. |
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Aug 28, 2008 6:22 PM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle saidI don't know how else to see it but when you're in a relationship and you feel compelled to use condoms no matter how you word it, but by doing this you are telling your partner that you don't trust him.
I can't see being in a relationship for a number of years and still be concerned about buying condoms.
Both of these statements speak to what I wrote earlier about these decisions being matters of personal context. One person's trust issue is another man's common sense. One man's common sense is another man's hygiene peculiarity. One man's peculiarity...you get the point. To suggest that any man refusing to convert to bareback with his partner has a lack of trust doesn't account for the full scope of sexual personalities present in people and their relationships. |
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Aug 28, 2008 6:32 PM GMT
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Hmmm.
I wasn't gonna say anything but I think I have to..
My last relationship (which lasted about 3 years) I was living with my boyfriend. We were madly in love with each other. I thought that I was gonna marry this man.
After a few months into our relationship we were living with each other and a few months after that I trusted him enough to bareback. I trusted this guy but fact is he cheated on me and put me at risk more times than I probably even know about (I'm still hearing things). He also liked to 'party' when he played if you catch my drift. Its really scary how in the dark I was for so long...
I was very lucky to get out of that situation okay, considering how many times he put me at risk.
He said he used a condom with these guys, but if he was lying to me by cheating on me, then how can I believe him? Also at one point it got back to me that he barebacked w/ one guy.
There really was no way of me knowing that this was going on until he slipped up, so don't think that I was being naive.
Needless to say my trust w/ him and most men has been completely shattered.
To all of you in monogamous relationships that trust each other enough to bareback, I wish you all the best.
I'm not trying to be negative, but I felt compelled to share my experience.
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Aug 28, 2008 6:42 PM GMT
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RunintheCity said
Myself? Condoms always. The very idea of poo on my peen makes me limp and immediately desexualized. Let alone having it actually happen. Yuck.
Eat more fiber, drink more water and stay regular. My partner and I both do and rarely is there ever poo on anyone's penis. |
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Aug 28, 2008 6:42 PM GMT
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RunintheCity said
This speaks VOLUMES to the generational divide we often see on opinions relating to this issue. Those of us of a certain time frame were socialized about safe sex quite differently than those before and those after us. I do not apply to this generational divide as I am only one year younger than you Timberoo. |
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Aug 28, 2008 6:45 PM GMT
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If I was just dating guys, you bet your ass I'd have him slap a condom on in a heartbeat.
In my relationship however, I'm literally dating my best friend and there's so much trust there that its crazy. I could not explain to you the things that my bf and I, both with incredibly shady pasts, have confessed to each other. Some things that when he told me at the beginning of our relationship, truly made me stop to consider if we should continue pursuing things. Things that if he had chosen to go tell someone, I could be arrested for.
In the end when you have that kind of trust its really not an issue. Of course If I die from AIDs someday then egg will be on my face but I just don't see it happening.
Me and my boyfriend are going to have the dream. The high paying job, the house, the picket fence and the children and thats just not the kind of person that you ask to slap a condom. We don't have a reason to.
Also note that when we finally did decide to make the step into raw sex, we went and got fully tested, yes it had been way more 7 months of only being with each other when we got our results back.
We're both healthy, in love and In the process of building our lives together and if I was so unsure that I couldn't sleep with him raw then hell I wouldn't have made this kind of commitment with him.
go ahead call me stupid. But I'm happy and loving the hell out of it
and have a relationship that both gays and straights could appreciate.
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Aug 28, 2008 6:45 PM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle saidRunintheCity said
This speaks VOLUMES to the generational divide we often see on opinions relating to this issue. Those of us of a certain time frame were socialized about safe sex quite differently than those before and those after us.
I do not apply to this generational divide as I am only one year younger than you Timberoo. it wasn't my observation |
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Aug 28, 2008 6:47 PM GMT
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Barebacking and Race, seem to be two topics that push peoples buttons on this site. Barebacking is a personal choice except when a person is forced against their will or they are too high on something to realize what the hell they are doing (or what's going on) until it's too late. In life, you are making choices all the time that may have unforseen repercussions. I think sometimes when people step up on that "Soap Box" the air up there can make people a wee bit pious and judgemental.
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Aug 28, 2008 6:53 PM GMT
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[quote][cite]RunintheCity said
Both of these statements speak to what I wrote earlier about these decisions being matters of personal context. One person's trust issue is another man's common sense. One man's common sense is another man's hygiene peculiarity. One man's peculiarity...you get the point. To suggest that any man refusing to convert to bareback with his partner has a lack of trust doesn't account for the full scope of sexual personalities present in people and their relationships.
[/quote]
I wouldn't convert a man to do something he doesn't want. How can you twist this around and make this seem like some ultimatum expressed by me?
All I'd simply do is have the discussion with my partner after getting to know him. If he says he'll never do it then that tells me all I need to know about where he is from a trust standpoint.
I'm not here to convince anyone here to do or not to do something. You all have a right to your opinion but let's not sugar coat it. If you can't trust your partner that's all there is to it. If you can't fathom having sex without condoms then you belief the person whom you've chosen to love doesn't respect your life enough that (for whatever reason/s) he will betray you and at the expense of your own health. I don't consider myself gullible and there are many men out there that I don't find trustworthy, not in the slightest. But I'd rather be single then put myself in a situation where I have to keep up barriers and think to myself deep down inside that I "settled" for a situation less than ideal.
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Aug 28, 2008 7:13 PM GMT
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Timberoo saidmuchmorethanmuscle saidRunintheCity said
This speaks VOLUMES to the generational divide we often see on opinions relating to this issue. Those of us of a certain time frame were socialized about safe sex quite differently than those before and those after us.
I do not apply to this generational divide as I am only one year younger than you Timberoo.
it wasn't my observation Sorry about the confusion. I interpreted the statement a bit wrong in the first place. But regardless of generation, I don't think it has to do time belts. But I believe it has to do with fear. |
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Aug 28, 2008 7:14 PM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle said
Sorry about the confusion. I interpreted the statement a bit wrong in the first place. But regardless of generation, I don't think it has to do time belts. But I believe it has to do with fear. That's your right. |
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Aug 28, 2008 7:58 PM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle said
I wouldn't convert a man to do something he doesn't want. How can you twist this around and make this seem like some ultimatum expressed by me?
All I'd simply do is have the discussion with my partner after getting to know him. If he says he'll never do it then that tells me all I need to know about where he is from a trust standpoint.
I'm not here to convince anyone here to do or not to do something. You all have a right to your opinion but let's not sugar coat it. If you can't trust your partner that's all there is to it. If you can't fathom having sex without condoms then you belief the person whom you've chosen to love doesn't respect your life enough that (for whatever reason/s) he will betray you and at the expense of your own health. I don't consider myself gullible and there are many men out there that I don't find trustworthy, not in the slightest. But I'd rather be single then put myself in a situation where I have to keep up barriers and think to myself deep down inside that I "settled" for a situation less than ideal. This statement is, in essence, an ultimatum in the way you're phrasing it because you're using it as a judgment on how other people act in their relationships. Either you trust someone absolutely and fully, and hence bareback, or you don't and that relationship is somehow on a lesser plane. That's especially true with this statement: muchmorethanmuscle
If you have a partner that feels he can readily have sex without condoms outside of the relationship then you need to assess why you care about this person so much in the first place. There's this implicit judgment you're making based on a false dichotomy, that either there's absolute trust and no one ever cheats or that your boyfriend is a ho bag. This type of statement doesn't leave any room for a boyfriend that slips up and makes a very poor judgment call, nor does it leave room for the type of agreement in a relationship in which using condoms is actually a way to lessen the tension by assuming a possible risk and reducing it as much as possible. Nor, as with runinthecity, does it account for hygiene concerns. I have no doubt that you don't mean to sway any audience into doing something they don't feel comfortable with, but I think that the way you're looking at this argument leaves little room the gray areas that are so prevalent in almost all relationships, and which other guys may use to calculate their decision. As Runinthecity noted, the question is all about personal context and I couldn't agree more with that statement. |
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Aug 28, 2008 8:07 PM GMT
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Yes, people slip up, but the assumption seems to be that if a boyfriend does slip up that he is going to engage in unprotected sex like he does with me. And how would this happen if we played safe in the beginning to protect ourselves and then eventually found that we could trust each other after going through a lengthy process of going to get tested together after being monogamous for months? Where is the logic in that? My boyfriend all of the sudden looses his scruples and goes out and cheats on me and doesn't apply his standard level of personal safety like he did when he and I were first courting each other?
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Aug 28, 2008 8:18 PM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle saidYes, people slip up, but the assumption seems to be that if a boyfriend does slip up that he is going to engage in unprotected sex like he does with me. And how would this happen if we played safe in the beginning to protect ourselves and then eventually found that we could trust each other after going through a lengthy process of going to get tested together after being monogamous for months? Where is the logic in that? My boyfriend all of the sudden looses his scruples and goes out and cheats on me and doesn't apply his standard level of personal safety like he did when he and I were first courting each other? If you want to look at logic, it's probably easier to believe he wouldn't use a condom. He doesn't use them regularly, so he doesn't have one with him. If it's a 'heat of the moment' type thing I'd say he's probably more likely to go bare. |
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Aug 28, 2008 8:19 PM GMT
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Timberoo said...When I had sex with girls, even if they were on the pill or using another method of birth control, I wore a condom.
It seems to me that if people weren't so concerned about making someone feel they had their trust, HIV and AIDS wouldn't be the issue it is now. I'm just curious. What's a couple that wants to have a baby supposed to do? |
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Aug 28, 2008 8:20 PM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle saidYes, people slip up, but the assumption seems to be that if a boyfriend does slip up that he is going to engage in unprotected sex like he does with me. And how would this happen if we played safe in the beginning to protect ourselves and then eventually found that we could trust each other after going through a lengthy process of going to get tested together after being monogamous for months? Where is the logic in that? My boyfriend all of the sudden looses his scruples and goes out and cheats on me and doesn't apply his standard level of personal safety like he did when he and I were first courting each other? First, I don't necessarily think it's the assumption that if the boyfriend slips up, he absolutely will do it in an unsafe manner. The assumption is that it could happen, not that it necessarily will. Moreover, I think you also have to consider the possibility that--and this is especially true if a partner slipped up after having been in the relationship for a long time--after not having used condoms for so long, the cheating partner might not be using the same risk calculation as he once would have. In addition, if a partner does in fact cheat, I'd guess there's a higher likelihood that drugs or alcohol are involved in the situation, in which case inhibitions are always lower. As I said, I think there's a whole lot of gray area in there that some people--myself included--simply aren't comfortable with. |
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Aug 28, 2008 8:27 PM GMT
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Gigadu saidTimberoo said...When I had sex with girls, even if they were on the pill or using another method of birth control, I wore a condom.
It seems to me that if people weren't so concerned about making someone feel they had their trust, HIV and AIDS wouldn't be the issue it is now.
I'm just curious. What's a couple that wants to have a baby supposed to do? Go without the condoms until pregnant. That's just my opinion. |
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Aug 28, 2008 8:27 PM GMT
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I can't say that I'd be drawn to someone that feels compelled to use recreational drugs that could eventually distort his judgment. Drinking I'm not into but I don't mind at all when people do it socially.
When you factor in substance use or abuse then it would change the parameters of the situation. I've had my fair share of going out with guys that have these struggles. I have been shit all over by these guys in one way or another. If he has to have his crystal, or G or X or K or whatever then most likely we're not going to have much in common. I don't need external sources to help me experience life at a more intense level. I believe I have that already.
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Aug 28, 2008 8:38 PM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle saidI can't say that I'd be drawn to someone that feels compelled to use recreational drugs that could eventually distort his judgment. Drinking I'm not into but I don't mind at all when people do it socially.
When you factor in substance use or abuse then it would change the parameters of the situation. I've had my fair share of going out with guys that have these struggles. I have been shit all over by these guys in one way or another. If he has to have his crystal, or G or X or K or whatever then most likely we're not going to have much in common. I don't need external sources to help me experience life at a more intense level. I believe I have that already. Let me be more clear. I'm not necessarily talking about your future partner, I'm speaking in generalities about anyone's partner, because I don't have any problem with your personal decision on the subject. I'm not trying to persuade you to make a different decision, I'm merely offering an alternative argument as to why other people make different decisions because I don't feel that your argument leaves other people much gray area (I'm a big believer in gray areas, in case you can't tell; I loves me the murky side of life) if anyone is reading these posts to help inform their own decision. |
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Aug 28, 2008 8:51 PM GMT
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I understand. I'm not of the opinion that things are always black and white. I think the person I will be drawn to and settle down with will have similar beliefs that mirror my own.
I think trust is paramount. I believe in forgiveness but once the trust is broken (i.e. a partner cheats on me) I think I would phase myself out of my partner's life. If we had both agreed to be monogamous and he decides to not honor that agreement I don't think I'd want to invest the time to re-establish the level of trust that is already gone.
Back to the topic of the post. If I were with someone for years and he kept reaching for a condom after being together for years I can't help but have this gnawing sensation eating at me that tells me deep down my partner does not trust me. More often it's a reflection of his own issues with trust and possibly his own lack of being able to be trusted himself.
People don't generally project what other people believe. They express what they believe is possible according to how their own mind works. I guess I could fall into this category. I believe I can trust a partner because I know myself well enough to be trusted. I project what I am capable of onto another human being. But others that are not very trusting may be doing so because they know they can't be trusted themselves. Notice how no one here said they "they" themselves might slip up. It's always the other person.
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Aug 28, 2008 11:04 PM GMT
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Timberoo saidGigadu saidTimberoo said...When I had sex with girls, even if they were on the pill or using another method of birth control, I wore a condom.
It seems to me that if people weren't so concerned about making someone feel they had their trust, HIV and AIDS wouldn't be the issue it is now.
I'm just curious. What's a couple that wants to have a baby supposed to do?
Go without the condoms until pregnant. That's just my opinion. So really, since that doesn't always happen right away, test tube babies are the only way to go so that everything can always be confirmed clean. |
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Aug 28, 2008 11:16 PM GMT
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RunintheCity said Why else would I have 'done it' once in a fitting room at Target?!?! Ewwww...couldn't you have done it in Macy's, at the least? Or Nordstrom's? Target?!?! |
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Aug 28, 2008 11:17 PM GMT
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One of my unfulfilled sexual fantasies is bareback sex. (Even the term, bareback, gets me hot and bothered - who came up with that?).
I am sure it is an age thing. I came out in high school (1981). One of my friends had a brother who died of HIV at about that time (for all I know Mark Reed - yes he had a name - may well have been patient zero).
The funeral is something I will never forget because it was the first Catholic funeral that I had ever attended.
Anyway, there is a generation marked by that experience.
I have had unprotected sex exactly once (as a top). To be perfectly honest, I got that clap and lived in mortal fear that I must have been been infected with HIV. I never did that again.
I would not have unprotected sex (I wouldn't rule it out, but it is unlikely). That feels awful to me, it feels like a punishment. It just seems normal that sex should be unprotected.
Based on that, I feel a pang of envy for those of you in committed relationships who do this.
I could manage the trust (that wouldn't be a problem). What would be difficult is to suspend disbelief. I just know that a man, is a man, is a man.
Terry
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Aug 28, 2008 11:31 PM GMT
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OMGosh. The reponses about trust surprise me a little. Sorry guys, I'm sounding like a grandpa.
I trusted my boyfriend implicitly, barebacking, and later found out he was having extracurricular sex. It's just that simple. We had a wonderful, fulfilling relationship and he was the one who insisted on monogamy.
About ten years ago, I was in a relationship with a man, whom after several sexual encounters told me he was +ve.
For the record, I am HIV negative.
Please, please, just be careful. People are not always as they appear, even if you do trust. I'm not soured by past relationships, just a realist.
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Aug 29, 2008 12:18 AM GMT
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HighVoltageGuy saidChizzad saidYou always feel the same way as me I think we think alike or something haha.
Brother's from a different mother. LOL! Maybe a sister from another mister? |
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Aug 29, 2008 9:08 AM GMT
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jprichva saidRunintheCity said Why else would I have 'done it' once in a fitting room at Target?!?!
Ewwww...couldn't you have done it in Macy's, at the least? Or Nordstrom's?
Target?!?! Some of us are on a budget? |
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Aug 29, 2008 9:19 AM GMT
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the only time I would ever bareback is when there is a cure/vaccine for ALL std's, until then I will remain celibate, wich i have been for 2years, since this past July 21st...one may ask me "why not just practice safe sex?"...I say like many who have posted above I trust no one, and I am too paranoid of a person, even if I was to play it safe....so its either all or nothing...and so I have chose nothing....and I tell any guys who are too trusting of there boyfriends: DONT PLAY RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH YOUR LIFE  ...DONT TRUST YOUR HEART, OR BODY WITH ANY ONE!!!.....sad to say  |
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Aug 29, 2008 9:28 AM GMT
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I thank God I am Neg....not afraid of death, but I rather burn out...then fade away..
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Aug 29, 2008 9:30 AM GMT
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Fear really is a terrible thing. It truly is debilitating.
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Aug 29, 2008 9:57 AM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle saidjprichva saidRunintheCity said Why else would I have 'done it' once in a fitting room at Target?!?!
Ewwww...couldn't you have done it in Macy's, at the least? Or Nordstrom's?
Target?!?!
Some of us are on a budget? I'm not talking about shopping, I'm talking about fucking. Since when do they charge more for that at the better stores? |
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Aug 29, 2008 10:38 AM GMT
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If you fuck in the toilet at Chick-Fil-A there is no charge (unless you want fries with that).
As to the remarks about the "better stores", I think that fucking is free, it comes with every purchase.
Terry
p.s. I would rather have grease-monkey sex in a truck stop than ribbon-clerk sex at Neiman Marcus (not that I get any of either).
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Aug 29, 2008 11:08 AM GMT
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jprichva saidmuchmorethanmuscle saidjprichva saidRunintheCity said Why else would I have 'done it' once in a fitting room at Target?!?!
Ewwww...couldn't you have done it in Macy's, at the least? Or Nordstrom's?
Target?!?!
Some of us are on a budget?
I'm not talking about shopping, I'm talking about fucking.
Since when do they charge more for that at the better stores? I know sweetie. We'll call it budget fucking.  I will admit, Macy's is the 5 star experience for sex in risky places. |
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Aug 29, 2008 11:09 AM GMT
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ursamajor saidIf you fuck in the toilet at Chick-Fil-A there is no charge (unless you want fries with that).
As to the remarks about the "better stores", I think that fucking is free, it comes with every purchase.
Terry
p.s. I would rather have grease-monkey sex in a truck stop than ribbon-clerk sex at Neiman Marcus (not that I get any of either). I think you should explore some of these options with your new school girl groupie GG. |
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Aug 29, 2008 12:43 PM GMT
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pakgreekguy saidthe only time I would ever bareback is when there is a cure/vaccine for ALL std's, until then I will remain celibate, wich i have been for 2years, since this past July 21st...one may ask me "why not just practice safe sex?"...I say like many who have posted above I trust no one, and I am too paranoid of a person, even if I was to play it safe....so its either all or nothing...and so I have chose nothing....and I tell any guys who are too trusting of there boyfriends: DONT PLAY RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH YOUR LIFE...DONT TRUST YOUR HEART, OR BODY WITH ANY ONE!!!.....sad to say I'm not conflating lack of trust with Condom use, but who exactly are you trusting if you're using condoms? You can trust the condom manufacturers to want to make money, which means they have to produce a reliable product which is essentially aiming to prevent anyone else's lies from affecting your health. I noticed in your profile that you want a relationship. I'm curious as to how you think that's gonna play out if you're gonna be celibate until all STDs are cured? |
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Aug 30, 2008 5:07 AM GMT
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massagejock saidI've been in love before and hope to find another great guy someday..but lately I've been reading about young guys who bareback with their partners.
Over the years I have talked to many HIV+ men who said they got it from their old bf whom they thought was monagomous...only to find out too late that he wasn't...
So, how far are you willing to trust you present or (future) boyfriend is a hard pill to swallow these days along with you meds...
So, what do you guys think? |
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Aug 30, 2008 5:17 AM GMT
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Couldn't agree with you more Massagejock. It's unreasonable but perhaps those throwing caution to the wind should pay for their meds.  |
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Sep 01, 2008 2:21 AM GMT
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muchmorethanmuscle saidI don't know how else to see it but when you're in a relationship and you feel compelled to use condoms no matter how you word it, but by doing this you are telling your partner that you don't trust him.
I say this with the assumption that if you're both negative, you love each other and are looking out for each others' well being. If you have a partner that feels he can readily have sex without condoms outside of the relationship then you need to assess why you care about this person so much in the first place.
Personally I believe in monogamy. If I were to have a person betray my trust in this manner I would be very angry. Angry to the point of getting a blow torch and some pliers and perform a sex change on my cheating louse of a spouse's ass "MEDIEVAL STYLE." I agree 100 percent. If you don't/can't trust someone that means you don't really love them. I've been in love once before and I, personally, would never do anything to hurt someone I loved so much. I believe, strongly, that he would've done the same for me. Many people are fooled into believing they're in love but really are just looking for companionship to kill loneliness. Love doesn't really work that way. You can't manage it like a business. It has to come naturally. Love means being able to trust someone with your life no less than 100 percent. If you only get an hour of sleep every night and still feel like that is too much because you simply don't want to miss a single moment of life without this person by your side - that is love. Love isn't going on three "dates" (I don't believe in 'dating') and declaring "OK my minimum standard has been met - we're officially in love." Even the person who said he knew his bf for three months falls a bit short. Three months isn't nearly enough time to establish trust. Trust is one of those things that's very hard to gain and easy to lose. It usually takes many years of knowing a person. |
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Sep 01, 2008 4:49 AM GMT
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Brady527 saidHighVoltageGuy saidChizzad saidYou always feel the same way as me I think we think alike or something haha.
Brother's from a different mother. LOL!
Maybe a sister from another mister? Haha no no no, my sister from another mister lives across the street from me LOL. |
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Sep 01, 2008 11:44 AM GMT
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To me, the no condom question comes after, "Are we going to be mutually exclusive for the rest of our lives?" question. Until you've found a guy that that you can trust believes the same, then back backing is on the back burner. The same can be said about the marriage question as well.
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Sep 01, 2008 1:15 PM GMT
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I have to say that I've enjoyed reading this discussion. It is very interesting to see where so many gay men lie with their opinions.
I have to agree with some of you that this is definitely a question of the level of trust in the relationship. I myself have decided, though I am single at the moment, that I would eventually like to bareback with my boyfriend, but only after we have had time to establish our relationship, and that I can trust him fully to not cheat on me.
I see no reason to risk my life or my healthy for a "heat of the moment" pleasure. I made that mistake once in my life before. And I thankfully came out of that moment without any negative consequences. I won't do again. Not until I'm sure the man I end up being with, is serious about sticking out with me for the long-haul.
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Sep 01, 2008 1:18 PM GMT
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Simple fact that is taught in most HIV/IDS classes: you can't be with your partner 24/7. Meaning: they could be doing anybody. You just don't know. That goes for straights, bis, or gays. A person's argument may be that their honey is at work. Devil's advocate says, yeah, but they could be screwing at work, if they are even there. Be realistic. Put on the condom. It won't kill you, HIV can.
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Sep 01, 2008 1:35 PM GMT
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When I was younger, and wanted to be straight, I once "barebacked" with my girlfriend of several years. She became pregnant. After that I have found it difficult to have intercourse without a condom. By the time she knew she was pregnant I had come out to myself, and we were not on speaking terms. That was a rough patch in my life.
Only someone who wants to risk complications would have sex without a condom- regardless of the gender or length of the relationship. There are more (although the odds of becoming HIV+ are less) ways to contract HIV than just intercourse.
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Sep 01, 2008 1:47 PM GMT
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26mileman saidCouldn't agree with you more Massagejock.
It's unreasonable but perhaps those throwing caution to the wind should pay for their meds. Wow, that's an almost unforgivably trite and offensive statement-- as if all barebacking sex between loving partners leads to HIV infection and medication. Or as if we should stigmatise those with HIV even further. Or as if HIV patients don't already bear a heavy burden in terms of getting treatment-- for something that may or may not be their fault. Way to show compassion and understanding, not to mention a serious grasp of the bigger picture. |
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Sep 01, 2008 2:03 PM GMT
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To further london_nyc's observation, we'll again state that it takes years of building trust and getting to know and understand each other on very deep levels before engaging in unprotected sex. Again, though it has worked out well for us, we DO NOT recommend it to anyone else, as it is impossible to measure or gauge the integrity of anyone else's relationship.
For those that DO take this risk and meet misfortune, it's equally reprehensible to demand they pay for their own meds, as their now compromised life and health, not to mention their grief will already be overwhelming.
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Sep 01, 2008 2:44 PM GMT
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london_nyc said26mileman saidCouldn't agree with you more Massagejock.
It's unreasonable but perhaps those throwing caution to the wind should pay for their meds.
Wow, that's an almost unforgivably trite and offensive statement-- as if all barebacking sex between loving partners leads to HIV infection and medication. Or as if we should stigmatise those with HIV even further. Or as if HIV patients don't already bear a heavy burden in terms of getting treatment-- for something that may or may not be their fault.
Way to show compassion and understanding, not to mention a serious grasp of the bigger picture. I beleive I have a grasp of the bigger picture which is why I said my statement is unreasonable. However, some of the flippant responses about trust concern me and felt my statement would provoke some comprehension on such serious trust issues. Please feel free to read my first two posts on this subject. I am quite compassionate, loyal and empathetic! |
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Sep 01, 2008 2:51 PM GMT
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We think you are, too!
Your statement DID provoke more thought, hence our own adding to london's post.
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Sep 01, 2008 3:24 PM GMT
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Been there , done that . I done barebacking 10 years ago with one bf (top). I must have screw him 100 times. Lucky I dont get it. Now with greater awareness of HIV infection and how easy it is to get infected, I can say I will never bareback again (top or bottom). Nowaday the only barebacking I am willing to do is receiving bj. I even insist those guy ..bf, one night stand, fuck buddy... to roll the condom on before I do my things. Of course , its not easy to ask some guy to put condom on just for a bj. One guys even , trick me by taking it off in the dark and let me perform condomless for a few minute. God , that make me mad.
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Sep 01, 2008 3:27 PM GMT
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After reading most* of the responses, I'd like to make a few comments about barebacking (BB), unprotected anal intercourse, and fucking without a condom. Which ever descriptor you use, the action remains the same.
Guys practice bb for a variety of reasons. In the context of a relationship, both men need to communicate their desires, concerns, as well as their previous AND current sexual activities with one another. It is this communication breakdown that puts guys at risk for HIV. Period. Having an agreement between two guys, say a couple, works wonderfully well as long as theirs open lines of communication and both completely understand their boundaries of what they can and can not do sexually. This has been researched and will be a part of my doctoral dissertation.
Some guys fear that their mistakes or other sexual happenings, if shared with their partner or hookup, might jeopardize what they currently have. That can be down right scary. The point is, people fear being rejected for their desires, mistakes, among a wide variety of other things. If this fear was gone and guys were more able to communicate openly with their regular and non-regular sexual partners, than I'd say we'd have an easier time preventing HIV and other STIs.
With all that said, bb is and will remain symbolic of trust. This will not change as it's part of nature. We're no different than the heteros in this respect nor some other animal species. On a side note, my bf and I do practice bb because we communicate openly, explicitly understand our boundaries (only with each other), want the symbolism in our relationship, love each other, and enjoy sharing this intimacy with one another.
Thanks for reading.
*Disclaimer - I did not read everyone's posting, but did read most of them.
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Sep 01, 2008 3:56 PM GMT
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Have you guys seen the HIV trends???? The number of guys getting infected is skyrocketing, and it's in the gay population. USE YOUR CONDOMS EVERY TIME!! Don't bareback, even with your boyfriend. My best friend and his partner both tested negative and thus barebacked in their relationship. A year later both of them are HIV+, as are 4 other guys who got involved with them. And think about it...if you establish yourselves as a monogamous couple and decide condoms aren't needed, then one of you has an indiscretion, the person who cheats is unlikely to have the guts to say "hey maybe we should start using condoms after all" without raising suspicions. It's more likely they won't say anything at all, putting their partner at risk. You've got to protect yourselves!!
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Sep 01, 2008 4:11 PM GMT
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26mileman saidlondon_nyc said26mileman saidCouldn't agree with you more Massagejock.
It's unreasonable but perhaps those throwing caution to the wind should pay for their meds.
Wow, that's an almost unforgivably trite and offensive statement-- as if all barebacking sex between loving partners leads to HIV infection and medication. Or as if we should stigmatise those with HIV even further. Or as if HIV patients don't already bear a heavy burden in terms of getting treatment-- for something that may or may not be their fault.
Way to show compassion and understanding, not to mention a serious grasp of the bigger picture.
I beleive I have a grasp of the bigger picture which is why I said my statement is unreasonable. However, some of the flippant responses about trust concern me and felt my statement would provoke some comprehension on such serious trust issues.
Please feel free to read my first two posts on this subject.
I am quite compassionate, loyal and empathetic! Fair 'nough, sorry about that. |
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Sep 01, 2008 4:17 PM GMT
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SeattleBeach said And think about it...if you establish yourselves as a monogamous couple and decide condoms aren't needed, then one of you has an indiscretion, the person who cheats is unlikely to have the guts to say "hey maybe we should start using condoms after all" without raising suspicions. It's more likely they won't say anything at all, putting their partner at risk. This is definitely possible but the scenario only if the indiscretion is with an HIV+ person and the condom fails. It's possible but not probable, as anyone who's had protected sex with an HIV+ person knows. (Dan Savage talks a lot about dating an HIV+ guy and having never been infected. Personally, I have had sex with an HIV+ guy and I'm still negative years later.) And I know there are boyfriends out there who wouldn't tell their partners that going back to using condoms is necessary, but surely that's not the case for every relationship. Some people actually genuinely love their partners and do the right thing. |
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Sep 01, 2008 4:42 PM GMT
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Until now I was considering BB with my future boyfriend at some level in the relationship ..
But now I don't .. I'v always used condoms and I will keep using them ..
It's too painful to think that your boyfriend not just cheated on you , but also transfered a memento (HIV) .. In case of infection in a monogemous relationship ..
stay safe..
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Sep 01, 2008 5:20 PM GMT
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I'm a clean person and I would like to think that if and when I get into a relationship my partner will be clean as well. Regardless of that I will still continue to use condoms. I have no reason not to use them and even if I trust my partner entirely it's still something I feel I need to use.
I don't fault people for their actions in this case but it's really hard to feel sorry for them when unfortunate things happen. It's like feeling sorry for a person who swims with sharks or handles poisonous snakes. You know they have dangerous potential to being life threatening and yet still you press on with a false hope that nothing will happen or rather you hope nothing will happen because you know if something does that the consequences are great. That's called taking a calculated and unecessary risk.
The difference between sharks, poisonous snakes and man is that two of them aren't in the habit of lying about their nature and will show you a sign of their dangerous intent while the other one (man) will smile and say things are ok when clearly they aren't assuming he even knows he's dangerous which most don't. In regards to all three though there are saftey precautions and you'd be foolish not to apply them when dealing with them.
I say kudos to the people who have lasted this long in a relationship or just in life without the aid of condoms and without the troubles of adultery. I wish them the best and hope that nothing fowl happens.
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Sep 01, 2008 5:49 PM GMT
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I am just curious as to who is at greater risk when it comes to barebacking. With all the medical jargon and studies, I cant seem to get a clear answer to who is at more risk for contracting HIV when it comes to bareback sex among men. Please help me understand!
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Sep 01, 2008 5:55 PM GMT
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I barebacked with my first serious boyfriend. We were both monogamous and had been tested, so I have to say that it just felt right.
However I never did it bareback with my last serious boyfriend even though we spent almost a year longer together. Except for once when he just 'sat' on it and surprised me, although I refused to let it continue. I guess I never really trusted him enough to go that far.
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Sep 01, 2008 7:05 PM GMT
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I agree with FIREFIGHTERBLU3 and London NYC on this. I feel that if you live in fear of diseases then there is some other underlying issues that may need some closer looking at.
The fact that gay men still ask and refer to "Clean" as a cute way of saying "HIV" or "STD" is a dangerous social stigmatic path both for HIV'ers and non HIV'ers. This only reformulates the issues in neat marketing sound bite packages just as virus' can mutate and re-infect.
HIV and other STD's are not rocket science; we know enough now to get the "Responsible Sex Practice" book off the coffee table when a trick comes over to participate in a one on one or a three-way. Dialogue is the only answer and new people may lie regardless of how "nice" they are.
If you are engaged in multi sexpartners either occasionally; in one night, or in a "Party", you should always use a condom regardless - anything else is just asking for a whole load of unwanted stress and probably means you are fooling yourself about the overall safety of your health.
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Sep 01, 2008 7:47 PM GMT
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swimmer052 saidI am just curious as to who is at greater risk when it comes to barebacking. With all the medical jargon and studies, I cant seem to get a clear answer to who is at more risk for contracting HIV when it comes to bareback sex among men. Please help me understand! You can get HIV by being a top or a bottom,though the risk is lower for the top (not enough to consider it safe) |
