I was in a discussion on voting with my business associates.

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    Aug 30, 2008 1:03 PM GMT
    One is left leaning, one is center but still votes Democrat and then there is me.

    During the conversation was a statement made by me that many people I talk to in the gay community will rubber stamp Obama because he is the best candidate on gay issues and will just accept the rest of his policies in order to get what they want for gay rights.

    Both had told me they thought it was stupid to vote based on one issue only. About as stupid for voting for him because he is a Democrat. You have to vote for him if you believe in him and he meets the majority of the issues you hold true to yourself.

    I was told that voting for a third party wasn't a good idea because America is unfortunately a 2 party system. You either vote one side or another.

    Now I don't think many of you in here will vote based on solely the gay issue and it is mostly a natural party thing for most of you to vote for Obama because of his stance on troop withdrawal, raising taxes for social programs and reducing mounting debt, paying for expensive green procedures, reducing wealth of the rich so it can be distributed amongst those that need the boost, etc.

    Some of you vote for McCain because of wanting lower taxes, higher defense, showing a strong hand to the world, reduced government spending on everything but defense and infrastructure, etc.

    Good and bad points on each side. So this got me to think.

    Do you find that as you have grown older you have moved to accept things withing the Democrat and Republican party's main policies that you didn't when you were younger? And then you further justify them by stating your own position on them?

    Or do you find that there are still things in your own party that you cannot reconcile, besides the gay issues.

    For example I cannot call myself pro-life. I am pro-choicer that always would choose life unless it meant being a detriment to the immediate health of the mother.

    I believe that gay people should have the right to marry. I feel that both sides need to have people in their party's rise up through the ranks as to sway public opinion on this topic. Since I am gay though I am expected to feel this way and I have no problem with being self-serving in this regard.

    I believe in making a personal choice to be green but not have it forced on the will of the people. It gives me pride to know that I throw out very little trash now because I recycle as much as I can and I compost food wastes when I can. I think it needs to be a personal choice.

    When I look at it though I find the only self-serving item of substance was the gay issue.

    Also what plays into your own personal choice of who you vote for is your relationships with your local candidates. Admittedly I have had very good relationships with many local Republican candidates who have gone out of their way to invite us into their circle of friends and introduce us as a couple. We even have changed opinions of candidates on how they vote on gay issues. Some have voted yes and some have not voted no. There still are many who pretend we don't exist though and I know it is up to gay people to show that.

    I have good relationships with certain Democrats as well. They know us on a personal level as well. However the majority of the Democrat party really hasn't been very friendly on a whole. It seems as though it is more of a bother to have to meet with people.

    In closing I would say that local candidates have an effect on their party as a whole in how they act towards their constituents. The more that act shady and untrustworthy the less likely the voting public will vote for any other party candidate.

    Thank you to those who read through this and provide a proper discourse. Just go out and vote and be proud of it. Don't ever be ashamed to vote or bullied into voting for others. Vote on your beliefs and your issues you hold true to yourself.
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    Aug 30, 2008 1:24 PM GMT
    Zoxuss saidJust go out and vote and be proud of it. Don't ever be ashamed to vote or bullied into voting for others. Vote on your beliefs and your issues you hold true to yourself.

    OMG!... all these years I didnt go out and vote cuz I was ashamed and didnt know I should be proud of it. And the couple times I did vote, it was only after being bullied ....but I didnt vote on beliefs or issues that I held true to myself...

    Oh thank you for pontificating these words of wisdom!

    icon_rolleyes.gif

    cat

    icon_lol.gif
  • HndsmKansan

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    Aug 30, 2008 1:43 PM GMT
    Well let me say I would wager that the majority of people would say their immediate reason for tending to vote the way they do is because of influence by either parents when young, friends and the local culture
    (meaning, "everybody" seems to vote a certain way.

    Probably not a very good way to cast a ballot. You would hope that as people mature, they get facts and either change their approach or come to a personal understanding as to what is important to them and voice it at the ballox box.

    I was raised by parents (especially my Dad) who were strong democrats.
    The first thing I can ever remember are the insults he made about Nixon
    and even as little kid how horrible it was when he resigned. While those were the first things I remember about politics, my parents encouraged me to ask questions and to think for myself. We have had minor arguments about appropriate tax expenditures, military intervention, etc over the years.

    Let me say I think the Republican premise about the conservative spending of dollars and a limited role of government can be very prudent. Fiscal
    discipline appeals to me and big government programs can be costly and expensive.....but if properly handled can benefit the poor and society as a whole!

    We have not had fiscal discipline with Bush. That principle is in the trash.
    Not only "rob Peter to pay Paul", but "go bankrupt to pay Paul again and again. I think its ridiculous. "Tax and spend" does hold some weight here .

    I would assume many here have their own reasons (beyond gay) in supporting their candidates (and political parties) of choice.

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    Aug 30, 2008 5:33 PM GMT
    Caslon6000 said
    Zoxuss saidJust go out and vote and be proud of it. Don't ever be ashamed to vote or bullied into voting for others. Vote on your beliefs and your issues you hold true to yourself.

    OMG!... all these years I didnt go out and vote cuz I was ashamed and didnt know I should be proud of it. And the couple times I did vote, it was only after being bullied ....but I didnt vote on beliefs or issues that I held true to myself...

    Oh thank you for pontificating these words of wisdom!

    icon_rolleyes.gif

    cat

    icon_lol.gif


    Then you have nothing to worry about. You can be proud of your vote then. And the cats should be too.
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    Aug 30, 2008 5:55 PM GMT
    I feel like i should have read that, but that was a goddamn essay there... even with paragraphs i got bored after three sentences... i believe more LOLcats would have helped break that up.
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    Aug 30, 2008 6:36 PM GMT
    Well, for starters, you tipped your hand with your reference to the "Democrat party". That particular insult (and it is an insult) is only used by Republicans, and usually only by the in-your-face asshole ones.

    This fact is so well recognized that this year the Republicans writing McCain's platform decided to change the wording from "Democrat party" back to "Democratic party" in the platform itself because (as one prominent Republican put it) this year they didn't want to alienate any Democrats or Dem-leaning independents who might want to cross over and vote for McCain. So believe me, despite the protests and the blather, they know damn well it's considered insullting.

    And here you talk about even-handedness, and yet you insult us.

    Why the fuck should we consider what you have to say?
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    Aug 30, 2008 7:18 PM GMT
    I was just looking up Demographics on who makes up Republicans Vs. who makes up Democrats. I think the statistics kind of show why there is the clash and polarization between parties.

    I would like to hear how individuals describe their party affiliation and main concerns as prescribed by the party (or at least the party the tend to vote for if they claim "independent"). For example republicans is some other forums I notice call democrats "libs", and a while back were using the phrase "compassionate conservative" which was kind of telling in and of itself. I would really like to know how people in the 2 parties (D & R) see themselves.
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    Aug 30, 2008 8:41 PM GMT
    jprichva saidWell, for starters, you tipped your hand with your reference to the "Democrat party". That particular insult (and it is an insult) is only used by Republicans, and usually only by the in-your-face asshole ones.

    This fact is so well recognized that this year the Republicans writing McCain's platform decided to change the wording from "Democrat party" back to "Democratic party" in the platform itself because (as one prominent Republican put it) this year they didn't want to alienate any Democrats or Dem-leaning independents who might want to cross over and vote for McCain. So believe me, despite the protests and the blather, they know damn well it's considered insullting.

    And here you talk about even-handedness, and yet you insult us.

    Why the fuck should we consider what you have to say?


    The local Democrat party is in control and knows that people will still vote for them since the Republican party doesn't really exist. It would relate towards those people.

    I really don't understand why Democrat and Democratic are considered an insult. I mean is calling you a Democrat equated to the N-word or being a called a bitch? I apologize if you felt insulted. It wasn't my intention.

    This is news to me. Nobody that I know that is a Democrat has ever said it was an insult. I mean is it an inside thing like sending flowers to a Jewish funeral? That only Dems would know it is insulting?

    Seriously I had no idea. I can just say "those that support Obama's party"?
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    Aug 30, 2008 8:41 PM GMT
    cosguy saidI feel like i should have read that, but that was a goddamn essay there... even with paragraphs i got bored after three sentences... i believe more LOLcats would have helped break that up.


    Sorry I just was wanting to explain how I felt and give examples.
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    Aug 30, 2008 8:45 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidI was just looking up Demographics on who makes up Republicans Vs. who makes up Democrats. I think the statistics kind of show why there is the clash and polarization between parties.

    I would like to hear how individuals describe their party affiliation and main concerns as prescribed by the party (or at least the party the tend to vote for if they claim "independent"). For example republicans is some other forums I notice call democrats "libs", and a while back were using the phrase "compassionate conservative" which was kind of telling in and of itself. I would really like to know how people in the 2 parties (D & R) see themselves.


    I guess it was news to me about the Democrat thing. Never heard of that being an insult.

    I honestly would say outside of normal inappropriate terminology, I would probably consider myself fiscally conservative and socially moderate. Which is why in itself I haven't felt as though either candidate running for president fits my belief system, but many local Republicans and Independents do.
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    Aug 30, 2008 8:50 PM GMT
    Zoxuss said
    ActiveAndFit saidI was just looking up Demographics on who makes up Republicans Vs. who makes up Democrats. I think the statistics kind of show why there is the clash and polarization between parties.

    I would like to hear how individuals describe their party affiliation and main concerns as prescribed by the party (or at least the party the tend to vote for if they claim "independent"). For example republicans is some other forums I notice call democrats "libs", and a while back were using the phrase "compassionate conservative" which was kind of telling in and of itself. I would really like to know how people in the 2 parties (D & R) see themselves.


    I guess it was news to me about the Democrat thing. Never heard of that being an insult.

    I honestly would say outside of normal inappropriate terminology, I would probably consider myself fiscally conservative and socially moderate. Which is why in itself I haven't felt as though either candidate running for president fits my belief system, but many local Republicans and Independents do.
    I am not sure what you mean by an insult or the Democrat thing, what do you mean? And what do you mean by inappropriate terminology?

    But yeah the fiscal and social thing (and maybe more) is what I would like to know as far as how "party" members describe themselves. That is where you will see the conflict between people and gays in particular.
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    Aug 30, 2008 8:58 PM GMT
    jprichvaWell, for starters, you tipped your hand with your reference to the "Democrat party". That particular insult (and it is an insult) is only used by Republicans, and usually only by the in-your-face asshole ones.


    I guess he feels it is an insult. That was news to me. I apologized for it enough I hope.
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    Aug 30, 2008 11:38 PM GMT
    Zoxuss said
    jprichvaWell, for starters, you tipped your hand with your reference to the "Democrat party". That particular insult (and it is an insult) is only used by Republicans, and usually only by the in-your-face asshole ones.


    I guess he feels it is an insult. That was news to me. I apologized for it enough I hope.


    Have you never noticed in your 39 years that no Democrat ever uses that term?

    Did you know that it originated during the time of McCarthy in the 1950s and was used sneeringly as a synonym for disloyal? Do you think perhaps there's a reason the Republicans made a POINT of removing that language from this year's platform, since they are hoping to attract the votes of Democrats?

    Believe me, this isn't some thing that's specific to me. The leaders of your own cult know this.
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    Aug 31, 2008 1:17 AM GMT
    jprichva said
    Zoxuss said
    jprichvaWell, for starters, you tipped your hand with your reference to the "Democrat party". That particular insult (and it is an insult) is only used by Republicans, and usually only by the in-your-face asshole ones.


    I guess he feels it is an insult. That was news to me. I apologized for it enough I hope.


    Have you never noticed in your 39 years that no Democrat ever uses that term?

    Did you know that it originated during the time of McCarthy in the 1950s and was used sneeringly as a synonym for disloyal? Do you think perhaps there's a reason the Republicans made a POINT of removing that language from this year's platform, since they are hoping to attract the votes of Democrats?

    Believe me, this isn't some thing that's specific to me. The leaders of your own cult know this.


    Again I didn't know about it so I will just use D and R to avoid confusion in the future.

    Time to *hug* it out!
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    Aug 31, 2008 1:37 AM GMT
    I could very well vote for a Republican candidate, but probably not from my current residency (Georgia). I could see myself voting for some moderates like Susan Collins, Olympia Snow, or (formerly) Christine Todd Whitman, all of whom have not only been more kind to GLBTs but other minorities and women. But with the example of the Bush administration and his lackeys, conservatives' actions in foreign policy and financial mismanagement have left a bitter taste in my mouth.