Struggling with depression, again.

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    Sep 01, 2008 3:46 AM GMT
    Ok, well where do I start.

    I don't want to sit here and repeat my history as I have on here before. I'll just start by saying, I've been through a lot of shit, and sometimes don't know how to get through it.

    I was doing really well for a while, but now, it feels like I'm going right back into that slump I've been in most of my life. I'm beginning to think I'm losing my faith as well. I used to think like, God is just testing us, showing us how strong we can be. And now, I'm thinking more along the lines of, why would God do this stuff, is he trying to "call us home" early? I've always been a religious person, but nowadays, not so much. I had a rough spell the other night, I ripped the cross necklace off my neck, and cursed God for doing these things. I'm sad to admit it, but it felt kind of good. Now I know that I can't blame God for anything that's happened, but it's hard not to sometimes.

    My head is just clouded with painful thoughts, painful memories. I can hardly concentrate anymore, and it's driving me insane. I have vivid dreams at night, constant flashbacks, and I just don't know how to deal with them anymore. I hate going to counseling and I haven't been in a while. Why should I sit there, and tell someone I don't even know, my most intimate thoughts. Someone who tried to sit there and tell you that they understand.... it's bull shit. They don't know what it's like, so how dare they tell me otherwise? I know they are just trying to help, but cut it out with the fucking lies and help me get through this instead of just assessing every little thing that I say or do. Talking about it doesn't help, it makes it worse. Medication doesn't help, it just zombie-fies me. I have tried almost everything to get rid of this shit, but I just can't shake it.

    I think the next time that I see him, I'm not going to be so passive. If he even comes near me, or tried talking to me, or hell if he even goes near my nephews, I know I'm going to flip and lose my shit. He hasn't got what's coming to him yet, and I guess I'll have to be the one to do it. My problem is, once I start, how am I supposed to stop? I can just picture myself beating him to a bloody pulp and not thinking twice about it. I don't care what the family says, they are fucking stupid for letting him come around anyway. Why the fuck would you let someone who is like that around your children, grandchildren, etc. He should be behind fucking bars for what he did. At least dis-owned from the family. But no, like my wonderful grandmother said, sometimes stuff like that just needs to be swept under the carpet. That's bullshit, that's why the shit keeps happening. You have to end the cycle. And if the family, or police for that matter, won't do it, then I guess it's up to me.

    I need to get my life back on track, but I don't know how to do it. I've slipped back into deep depression. I haven't talked to any of my friends in a while. I don't go anywhere. Hell, I just dropped out of fucking school because I have too much going on right now to even be able to concentrate and do well. I'm in a hole, financially, as well as mentally. I don't think I can do anything anymore. I know they say it gets worse before it gets better, well, I've been through worse, and it has not gotten any better yet.

    How do you guys put up with shit? What do you do to make the pain stop?

    Sorry for the ranting.. I just had to get some of this shit out before I exploded.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Sep 01, 2008 6:11 AM GMT
    You do have a lot going on. But your posting here shows you are trying to cope in some way. There aren't any easy or quick answers. Our brains don't on and off switches for this shit. I deal with depression, too. I know how it can envelope you like a dense fog, and totally alters your reality. A few suggestions: first, keep working on it in therapy. If you need to try different therapists to find one that works, you should do that. If you don't want to be on meds, find a therapist/psychiatrist who can work on you with that. I think meds serve a purpose, but they can be over-prescribed. If you feel like a zombie, it sounds like you're on too strong a prescription. Before you give up on the meds, see if you can get your doctor to tweak the levels to see a different level will work. But stick with the therapy. Keeping it to yourself isn't the answer, it will just amplify the depressing.

    Second, if no one else in your family is concerned about this guy being around your nephews, then I think you're right to step in. And though this guy deserves the shit beat out of him, you should probably not put yourself into that situation. You could be the one who ends up in jail, leaving your nephews without an advocate. You don't want that. It sucks that it's more important to family members to ignore something horrific than to deal with it properly.


  • Hunter9

    Posts: 1039

    Sep 01, 2008 6:15 AM GMT
    you say that you are "beginning to lose your faith" as if that is a bad thing. i would suggest losing the faith, and then think of things from a logical/rational perspective.... that'll work a lot better than the whole "faith" thing
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    Sep 01, 2008 6:17 AM GMT
    Lilman, I missed who the he is that you don't want coming around! But no, don't get drawn into that path of anger and don't be distracted .. the truth is that the answer is in your own head.

    Can't say much about the medicines, but I have friends on them. It can be tricky to find one that works for you if you indeed really need one. But I think most say that you need some kind of therapy to address the things that are bothering you in addition.

    I say what you need most, other than looking into your own head with honesty and openness, is people to love you. They are there lilman, I promise.

    I had much depression in my 20's that climaxed in my 30's when I came out. My turning point was when I saw myself as I truly was and had mercy on myself. Have mercy on yourself and your depression.
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    Sep 01, 2008 6:20 AM GMT
    Thanks Eric, maybe you are right.. I should do anything, violently, but wouldn't you want to? It's hard not to sometimes, but I always just walk away, and I feel that he "won" when I do.


    hunter- why would losing my faith be a good thing?


    active- thanks for the words. i know people love me... its just my family that gets to me most. they prance around like nothing ever happened. and then, they hate the fact that me and my mom aren't straight, but they can let someone like that still come around and don't even mind it. ill try looking for new meds maybe, but i dont like being dependent on the shit.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Sep 01, 2008 6:33 AM GMT
    lilmaninsc saidThanks Eric, maybe you are right.. I should do anything, violently, but wouldn't you want to? It's hard not to sometimes, but I always just walk away, and I feel that he "won" when I do.


    Hell yes, I would! I'd want 100 million tortures for the guy. Guantanamo would be TOO easy on him. And though I'd imagine my doing all those things to him, I wouldn't honestly want to be the one doing them to him. That eats at your soul, too. Besides, what we imagine and what we do are two different things. Most people would probably be arrested for the thoughts we have that we never ever take action on. You're doing the right thing by walking away. And, no, he hasn't "won" when you walk away.

    Hopefully justice will come and he will be incarcerated for what he's done. But your priority, aside from making sure you get through this, is that you help your nephews -- and others -- as best as you can by making sure this guy doesn't strike again.

    Know that you have many friends here that care deeply about you and are here for you.
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    Sep 01, 2008 6:39 AM GMT
    My severe depression during my cancer therapy was medicinally induced, so it may not be the same as yours. I cried uncontrollably due to the cancer meds. I was given anti-depressants to stop the crying, but I still felt like crap.

    I tried GABA (gamma amino butyric acid). It made all the difference in the world with the anti-depressants. I felt human.

    You might try looking at this book. It discusses the 4 neurotransmitters that control moods in the brain.


    mood_cure.jpg

    Ross, author of The Diet Cure, here offers a prescriptive plan designed to relieve a variety of ailments from seasonal disorders, stress, irritability and depression. Ross believes that many of these annoying and, in some cases, severely disabling disorders can be relieved through a change in diet and nutritional supplements. Readers are asked to first determine which of four "false moods" they suffer from: a dark cloud, blahs, stress or too much sensitivity. The survey is simple and the questions will immediately resonate with readers: for example, someone who is suffering from the blahs is likely to have difficulty focusing or require a great deal of sleep. Armed with their survey scores, readers can then turn to the appropriate chapter to learn which diets and supplements will be most helpful.Particularly reassuring are the author's detailed explanations of why she advises a particular strategy. While Ross is an advocate for nutritional supplements, she provides a sound overview for all her recommendations.

    http://www.amazon.com/Mood-Cure-4-Step-Program-Emotions-Today/dp/0142003646/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220251101&sr=8-1

    oh look, posting number 6666
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    Sep 01, 2008 6:42 AM GMT
    I'd suggest trying to get back in touch with some of your friends. The worst kind of suffering is suffering alone. A friend might not always understand what you're going through, but s/he'll be there as a support and sometimes that can mean the world.
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    Sep 01, 2008 6:51 AM GMT
    Thanks Caslon, I'll check that out.

    Ash - Yea, you're right too. I shouldn't distance myself from my friends. But they have a lot going on too, and I don't want to bother them with my shit. I'll try to do better.
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    Sep 01, 2008 6:52 AM GMT
    Hunter- You shouldn't condemn something just because YOU don't think it's rational/logical. Someone who has grown up with faith all their life doesn't see it as that.

    Anyways, I've been in the same position as you. I've felt like giving up my faith but I just have to remember that God doesn't put us through what we go through. What happens here on earth isn't always his doing, and most of it isn't. I'm sure he WISHES he could interfere and help us with our problems, but if God DID do that, what would be the point of faith? Everyone would believe in him. I guess I view it as, he just wants to see if we're willing enough to take that leap of faith for him. I've known lots of people whose lives have changed just by being really close to him. I've never experienced anything like it, but i hope maybe one day i do.
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    Sep 01, 2008 6:54 AM GMT
    reedw said I've never experienced anything like it, but i hope maybe one day i do.


    You and me both.
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    Sep 01, 2008 7:31 AM GMT
    Of course your friends have stuff to deal with, they are people.

    But friends are exactly the people who will listen to you rant and be crazy and go all rawr and not judge you. They might not understand, but they'll listen and care.

    Or like I read somewhere, a friend will do anything to prevent you from crying, a best friend will cry with you.
  • badtouch

    Posts: 67

    Sep 01, 2008 1:15 PM GMT
    hmm, ok, jumping intot this conversation late. i recognise the name but i don't think i have the backstory. still, for the purpose of this conversation, i'll just make a few points.

    medication.
    true this helps, whether it be supplements or ssri's, but they can often make you feel worse before being better so if you pursue this route, you really need a professional you trust, and who is well-versed in the most recent technologies and information for you to go throught this porocess. this length of time will often seem like a greater struggle, it jumbles up your world and the devil you know always seems a more comfortable option. but many options exist and the science of it isn't all perfect so it takes time.

    diffusion.
    counselours and even friends sometimes are not adequate releases for emotions that are amorphous to you because you must first deal with it intellectually find the words to communicate it; it's counterintuitive. find a way to handle your emotion in its raw state. art? dance? something that connects your mind to your body without any interference. it sounds hokey but you need to find a way to shed yourself of the inital emotion beforoe you can reason your way through it.

    that said...
    personally, i don't do these things as often as i ought to, mostly because i either get caught up or feel impatient. what helps me is going crazy sometimes. eventually my brain, after spinning craziness, heads to macro mode and i meditate (not with funny breathing, just intellectually) on the grander concepts. i philosophise sometimes, but i mostly just regain a bigger perspective. "sure my problems are problems, but what do they mean really?"

    it sounds new-age-y and it probably is, but occasionaly it works. and if not: hello, violently aggressive gym sessions, my old friend. haha
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    Sep 01, 2008 3:59 PM GMT
    lilmaninsc saidIll try looking for new meds maybe, but i dont like being dependent on the shit.


    Back when I was undergoing active treatment for my depression this is exactly why I took myself off of my meds. I don't like depending on a pill to be happy. In my mind that's toeing the line of being an addict to any other kind of drug.

    I was also one of those rare people that have negative reactions to SSRI's and MAO inhibitors... I thought I was bad before, but those pills left me having total breakdowns nearly every day.

    If you don't want to be on the pills, then don't get on them. It sounds like you had the same mind set as I did, and that's just another thing that could trigger your depression.

    As far as dealing with all the shit life throws at you: get back in touch with your friends. Then listen to their problems, too. Help each other work out whatever's going on.

    Good luck lilman!
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    Sep 01, 2008 4:06 PM GMT
    There's a 100% successful way of getting out of a depression and that's helping other people ... but some people find that such a strange notion I probably shouldn't have mentioned it.. instead I turn to the wise words of Sri Sri...
    -----
    There is a technique to get depressed -
    just sit and think only about yourself:
    "What about me? What about me?"
    ... you will get thoroughly depressed.
    -----
    When you are worried or tense, sit by a flowing river
    or gushing water and keep looking at the water.
    Within a few moments you feel as though like a magnetic pull
    your mind is being pulled in the direction of the flow of water...
    in a short while all the anguis, delusion flows away
    with the flowing water. You become fresh.
    -----
    You can spend the whole life worrying, grumbling,
    brooding over things and being miserable;
    or the same energy could be used to uplift you to unimaginable heights.
    -----
    Duality, a divided mind, is the cause of fear and misery.
    -----
    Sadness is just your habit.
    Look into your mind and see this sadness is simply unfounded.
    The moment you look at your mind,
    the selfmade sadness will disappear.
    You become free of it - it is just a concept.
    -----
    Why are you sad? Why are you sorrowful?
    It is because of your cravings, you are holding onto the past -
    a memory of cravings from the past creates sadness now

    Sri Sri Ravi Shankar
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    Sep 01, 2008 5:27 PM GMT
    I have been through a lot in life as well. These past 8 years I have:

    *cut myself over sixty times (I'm not exaggerating).

    *tried over 15 medications until finding the "right" one.

    *been hospitalized four times in the pychiatric ward.

    *tried to commit suicide

    * had two regiments of Electroconvuslive Therapy (ECT) with 8 treatments each time.

    *Dropped out of college twice.

    Though we have different problems and issues, I know what you are going through. I know how it feels when you know you are slipping into another depression. I personally think this illness is one of the worst illness/diasesesout there; with cancer, you are fighting the excessive growth of abnormal cells- depression, you are fighting against yourself. There have been times in the past when I didn't want to get better.

    Also, I have to make a comment on your believe that doctors/counselors do not understand what you are going through. I disagree. Both of my doctors (psychiatrist and psychologist) have been practising psychiatriy and psychology, respectively, for several decades. Most doctors know what depression is like and know how it can effect people. If the have enough expercene then that know ezactly what you're going through. Most likely they do not have personal experience, but they can still emapthize with you and try to help you.... that is what their 10+ years of graduate school/residency is for. Perhaps you may need a different counciler. Not all therapists are right for everyone. And it that's time; my psychologist tends to tell me the same things over and over again- his advice is hard to believe and put into place, but I work on it everyday. He told me once, "If I had to tell my clients something only once in order to help them, I'd be out of a job- there'd be no psychotherapy."

    In order to control a mental illness, I have found you need four equal things to interact with each other- four sides to a square... without one side the square falls apart.

    1. Medication: Most likely you will need to be on meds. Who gives you the meds? How many have you tried? There are soooooo many out there and each work differently- moreover, some meds work best with other meds. (I am on an anti-depressant and a mood-stablizer; the latter enhances the former.) Never give up! it took 5 years to find the right one for me. Change Doctors if you have to- do what is right for you!.

    2. Therapy: This has been known to work very well- sometimes people don't need meds because of the therapy that are getting. I know you say talking makes it worse... but holding it in isn't going to solve anything either. Find a new therapist... one you click with.

    3. Outside Support: This is a very sad one to talk about- so many people out there do not have the outside support they need. My mother has gone to Hell and back with me- she is always there with me and for me. I know I wouldn't be here if it weren't for her... and I am so serious about that. Try and find support somewhere.... a confidant you can go to when you need to talk or be with someone. Friends, co-workers, family, clergy (you mentioned you are religious... try to talk to your priest/pastor/rabbi/minister... they are also trained in this area).... or dare I say even a pet (though animals obviously can't get advice- they are great listeners and very soothing to be around... well the "right" kind of animals [i.e. Labs, Golden Retreivers, Collies, etc.].)
    *Warning about the clergy*: Your spiritual advisor should view your situtation as having an illness! Beware of those clergy who say, "Son, God is punishing you because you have choosen this lifestyle." Or, "You're just not praying hard enough. Go to church more and become more Godly." The former chaplin at my local hospital thought this way- let's just say he no longer works for the secualar Maine General Medical Hospitals.

    4. YOU: You have to want to get better and be willing to do almost anything to do so. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT. NEVER GIVE UP. The little voice in side you that says, "it still may be possible to turn things around." Listen to it... it is within us all- some just bury it better than others.

    lilmaninsc, Please e-mail me if you want to talk. I am very serious.
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    Sep 01, 2008 5:50 PM GMT
    Bread77,

    I think I disagree with about 85% of your post. First off, giving a 100% guaranteed sucess rate on a certain "cure" method is unscientific, unreasonable, and I imagine gives a false hope to many people. What "controls" mental illness varies from person to person and usually requires the implacation of many different therapies.

    Though, helping others is good for the soul, when one has a chemical imbalence, I highly doubt it can cure everyone of mental illness 100% of the time. Or am I understanding what you wrote in the wrong way? If not, do you have data/evidence/studies to back up you claim?
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    Sep 01, 2008 6:18 PM GMT
    Hey lilman,
    I know we had bonded and had some good conversations about this awhile ago. Somehow we lost touch: I think I was coming into the chats less, you weren't on IM as much, yada yada yada ... life takes us in different directions no?

    I definitely don't know what's going on in your life. It sounds like you're still having ex troubles, family troubles. Are you still taking care of a newborn? All these things combined together, not to mention all the stuff you've been through in the past, is bound to get to you as it is now.

    We talked about the more longer term goal of you getting away from your environment. I assume at some point you decided that wasn't the path for you. Is that still not an option? I remember asking you about this and you said you got a higher paying job and I remember thinking, that's not really a great reason to stay. But I hadn't been keeping in touch so I didn't know what else might be going on.

    As for shorter term fixes, I agree with the postings about getting in touch with friends again. That sucks about therapy not working for you: I use therapy to solve exactly these types of problems so that I don't bog my friends down with these problems. I still do use my friends to get things off my chest which helps me immensely too.

    One last shorter term advice: focus on eating and exercising well.
    Best wishes,
    dr_jackl
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    Sep 01, 2008 6:34 PM GMT
    bread77 saidSri Sri Ravi Shankar
    And Ravi Shankar



    icon_lol.gif
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    Sep 01, 2008 6:48 PM GMT


    lilmaninsc,

    You've got friends and sympathetic ears and shoulders right here. Like AcitveAndFit, we're feel like we're missing a piece of puzzle, that there's man coming to your family home that everyone's pussyfooting around and whatever he's done has had a profound and traumatic effect on you, bringing on depressive states. Hope we're making sense and getting this right.

    Anytime you like, email us. We'd be homoured to join all these great guys trying to help you out.
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    Sep 01, 2008 7:46 PM GMT
    Thanks for the helpful responses guys. I wasn't really looking for much feedback, but I do appreciate it, nonetheless. I scheduled an appointment with my counselor on Thursday, I'm sure I have a lot to catch her up on, as I haven't seen her in months. I'll ask her about other medications, maybe something that you don't have to stay on, just help when I am feeling down, as like I said before, I don't want to be dependent on them. I like to deal with things on my own, which I know isn't always the best way to do it. I'll try to start hanging out with my friends again. I'll try a lot of things, and hope it works out for the best. Depression sucks, and not in the good way. Anyways, thanks again. I do appreciate it. Much love.
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    Sep 01, 2008 8:24 PM GMT
    Wow bro, I feel for you, I really do. I let a good friend stay with me for about 6 months while he tried to work his way through some real similar things. It sounds to me like you're dealing with a version of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Sometimes getting the right name on something helps get to the right solutions. Unfortunately as you have discovered there are very few counselors that have any idea of how to deal with this. You might try looking for someone with specialized training in complex PTSD.

    The most important thing I think for you to understand is that you aren't crazy, abnormal or anything of the sort. You are having a normal reaction to an abnormal amount of stress. There are some really good PTSD self help manuals/workbooks out there to help with this. One I would like to suggest to you was a huge help to my friend. It's called.

    I Can't Get over It: A Handbook for Trauma Survivors by Aphrodite Matsakis (Paperback - Sep 1996)
    http://www.amazon.com/Cant-Get-over-Handbook-Survivors/dp/157224058X/ref=pd_bbs_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220299826&sr=8-10

    Unfortunately, this stuff can and will continue to affect every aspect of your life until you get it under control. Psychotropic medications are rarely silver bullets, most often it requires trying several different medications to see what works and what doesn't, meanwhile you continue to go through the discomfort. Also, sometimes doctors need to think outside the box and try medications that are not typical for this particular case. For example, in my friend they ended up finding out that Wellbutrin worked very well for him. Normally, in PTSD that would not be used because it causes a build up of stimulating neurochemicals, namely norepinephrine and dopamine. However, my friend also had ADHD which changed the clinical picture of how to treat the PTSD. Once he got on this med things stabilized for him and he did the best he's ever done. He wasn't reduced to a zombie, he didn't have the sexual side effects so common with the SSRI's. His sleeping paterns normalized, motivation returned, the depression lifted and the visual hallucinations and flashbacks stopped. All this became possible because I found the best Psychiatrist in the region for psychopharmacology and insisted that he go. I even paid the initial fee to get him in there. Sometimes you have to fight and fight until you find the answers. Hopefully, you can find a friend that will give you the same kind of concern, help, and absolute determination that this is a treatable problem and you must treat it. Try to find someone that will act as a friend and as sponsor type of person, someone that will hold you accountable for doing the things you need to do. Ultimately, my friend did the tough work of getting well, I just refused to let him off the hook on not doing the things he needed to be doing and I gave him a lot of love when the times were the worst. Ultimately, we all need those people in our lives that believe in us and won't let us off with less then a full effort to make our lives worth living. Try to identify or find that person in your life and make the commitment to be 100% honest with them.

    I have a lot of experience with this type of thing, if you have any specific questions that I can help with please don't be afraid to holler bro.

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    Sep 02, 2008 1:58 AM GMT
    lilmaninsc saidThanks for the helpful responses guys. I wasn't really looking for much feedback, but I do appreciate it, nonetheless. I scheduled an appointment with my counselor on Thursday, I'm sure I have a lot to catch her up on, as I haven't seen her in months. I'll ask her about other medications, maybe something that you don't have to stay on, just help when I am feeling down, as like I said before, I don't want to be dependent on them. I like to deal with things on my own, which I know isn't always the best way to do it. I'll try to start hanging out with my friends again. I'll try a lot of things, and hope it works out for the best. Depression sucks, and not in the good way. Anyways, thanks again. I do appreciate it. Much love.


    There is nothing wrong with being dependent on medications. I may have to be on meds the rest of my life- and I am also 23. Would you say to an insuline-dependent diabetic- "you need to work harder on not being diabetic; it's too bad you have to be on insuline the rest of your life."

    Depression is an illness and one that requires the use of medication to control sometimes... it is a hard fact to accept. Who knows though... you may be able to get off meds totally in a few years! If not remember- medications aren't perfect. The goal of a med is to make the good out weigh the bad. With my med... I can't eat pepperoni pizza, aged cheese, drink alcohol, etc. But it makes me feel happy an I am willing to give up the use of those consumables in order to be productive. icon_smile.gif Keep your head up- I am glad you called your therapist.

    Chris
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Sep 02, 2008 2:20 AM GMT
    See, Zack, I told you that you're loved here. ;-) Thanks for reaching out to us.
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    Sep 02, 2008 3:46 AM GMT
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