New Romney lie: Scare Ohioans by falsely claiming Chrysler may move all Jeep production to China 474th lie to date in 34 weeks

  • MusclFurPeX

    Posts: 166

    Oct 27, 2012 1:14 AM GMT
    This is really despicable:
    Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney told a rally in northern Ohio on Thursday night that Chrysler was considering moving production of its Jeep vehicles to China, apparently reacting to incorrect reports circulating online.

    "I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state Jeep — now owned by the Italians — is thinking of moving all production to China," Romney said at a rally in Defiance, Ohio, home to a General Motors powertrain plant. "I will fight for every good job in America. I'm going to fight to make sure trade is fair, and if it's fair America will win."

    Romney was apparently responding to reports Thursday on right-leaning blogs that misinterpreted a recent Bloomberg News story earlier this week that said Chrysler, owned by Italian automaker Fiat SpA, is thinking of building Jeeps in China for sale in the Chinese market.
    Only Mitt Romney could take a story about how Chrysler is expanding into the Chinese market ... and turn it into a story about how if he doesn't get elected, Chrysler might send all of its Jeep production there. Apparently, Romney saw some headlines on some right-wing blogs and went with it, but as Greg Sargent points out all the facts to debunk Romney's assertion are in the original article that he claimed as his source.

    But Romney didn't simply get his facts wrong. As Jonathan Cohn points out, Chrysler is actually expanding Jeep production right here in the United States.
    About 1,100 new Chrysler employees will begin working next week on a third crew at Jefferson North Assembly Plant in Detroit as sales of Jeep Grand Cherokees continue to rise.
    So not only did Romney spread a false claim that Chrysler was looking to move all of its Jeep production to China, he overlooked the fact that Chrysler is actually expanding Jeep production right here in the United States.

    Obviously, Mitt Romney is desperate to win over Ohio voters who are wary of supporting him because he opposed the auto bailout, but it really is disturbing that this sort of dishonesty is the way he'd go about doing it. It's not just simple Romnesia: it's inventing an entirely new reality, completely untethered from the truth, in order to support his personal political ambitions. Romney isn't spinning—he's lying. It's one thing for a candidate to present a set of facts in the most politically advantageous way possible, but it's quite another to just make stuff up completely.

    I know there's a risk of sounding holier-than-thou because in campaigns there's always going to be some exaggerations or stretching of the truth, sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. But that's not what Romney does. He lies. When he speaks, he doesn't care about the accuracy of what he says—he only cares about whether his words help him achieve his personal goals. That is the essence of dishonesty and it's a fundamental character flaw.

    Perhaps that willingness to lie served him well as CEO of Bain, but it's an appalling trait for a presidential candidate, let alone—God forbid—a president.
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    Oct 27, 2012 1:19 AM GMT
    He's just proving that he will create jobs.

    ...in China...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 27, 2012 1:19 AM GMT
    All this man knows how to do is lie.

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  • MusclFurPeX

    Posts: 166

    Oct 27, 2012 2:25 AM GMT
    Chrysler confirms that Mitt Romney LIED yesterday about them moving production of its Jeep to China
    OUCH-Chrysler Rebukes Romney Jeep to China LIE: "A Leap That Would Be Difficult For Circus Acrobats"

    Jeep in China
    by Gualberto Ranieri
    October 25, 2012 4:24 PM
    There are times when the reading of a newswire report generates storms originated by a biased or predisposed approach.

    On Oct. 22, 2012, at 11:10 a.m. ET, the Bloomberg News report “Fiat Says Jeep® Output May Return to China as Demand Rises” stated “Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley (President and CEO of the Jeep brand) referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China.”

    Despite clear and accurate reporting, the take has given birth to a number of stories making readers believe that Chrysler plans to shift all Jeep production to China from North America, and therefore idle assembly lines and U.S. workforce. It is a leap that would be difficult even for professional circus acrobats.

    Let’s set the record straight: Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China. It’s simply reviewing the opportunities to return Jeep output to China for the world’s largest auto market. U.S. Jeep assembly lines will continue to stay in operation. A careful and unbiased reading of the Bloomberg take would have saved unnecessary fantasies and extravagant comments.

    http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?id=1932&p=entry
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Oct 27, 2012 2:57 AM GMT
    It's a cover-up!!!!!!

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  • MusclFurPeX

    Posts: 166

    Oct 27, 2012 2:59 AM GMT
    yep WILLARD ROMNEY IS BULLSHIT--- TOTAL LIAR!
  • MusclFurPeX

    Posts: 166

    Oct 27, 2012 3:05 AM GMT
    topathlete said
    MusclFurPeX saidChrysler confirms that Mitt Romney LIED yesterday about them moving production of its Jeep to China
    OUCH-Chrysler Rebukes Romney Jeep to China LIE: "A Leap That Would Be Difficult For Circus Acrobats"

    Pure bullshit on your part with that statement that Mitt Romney lied.

    The Chrysler blog, trying to provide cover for Obama, is denying the Bloomberg report, but the Bloomberg report directly quotes a Fiat executive, and the Chrysler blog did not deny the quote was accurate.

    Too bad. Unless the Fiat executive states Bloomberg fabricated the story, it stands.


    Hey dude, Why didn't your liar tell his supporters that JEEP announced 1100 new jobs in Detroit instead of lying to them?
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    Oct 27, 2012 3:16 AM GMT
    topathlete said
    MusclFurPeX said
    topathlete said
    MusclFurPeX saidChrysler confirms that Mitt Romney LIED yesterday about them moving production of its Jeep to China
    OUCH-Chrysler Rebukes Romney Jeep to China LIE: "A Leap That Would Be Difficult For Circus Acrobats"

    Pure bullshit on your part with that statement that Mitt Romney lied.

    The Chrysler blog, trying to provide cover for Obama, is denying the Bloomberg report, but the Bloomberg report directly quotes a Fiat executive, and the Chrysler blog did not deny the quote was accurate.

    Too bad. Unless the Fiat executive states Bloomberg fabricated the story, it stands.


    Hey dude, Why didn't your liar tell his supporters that JEEP announced 1100 new jobs in Detroit instead of lying to them?

    Hey dude, did you read the article:

    Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.

    Fiat is in “very detailed conversations” with its Chinese partner, Guangzhou Automobile Group Co. (2238 ), about making Jeeps in the world’s largest auto market, said Mike Manley, chief operating officer of Fiat and Chrysler in Asia.

    Sorry to break it to you, but Romney did not lie, and all your spinning doesn't change that at all.


    From same article:

    "Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China. "

    Making all jeep models in China != moving all production of Jeeps to China.
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    Oct 27, 2012 3:22 AM GMT
    Again, making all models in China != making ALL Jeeps in China. You can still make models in America but have locally made Jeeps for China.

    Here's something analogous from BMW:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2012/05/25/bmw-to-increase-investment-production-in-china/

    Note he was saying ADDING production, not MOVING ALL production, to China.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 27, 2012 3:29 AM GMT
    topathlete saidFrom the Bloomberg article:

    “We’re reviewing the opportunities within existing capacity” as well as “should we be localizing the entire Jeep portfolio or some of the Jeep portfolio.”

    You might argue that moving the entire portfolio must means making some of each model, but the more reasonable interpretation to "entire portfolio" is making all Jeeps in China, which Romney said they are considering.



    Sigh, localizing entire portfolio means they want to build all models of Jeeps in China, ADDING production in China, simply because it's cheaper to produce and sell locally in China. It does not say anything about American production of Jeeps.

    I quote yet again,
    "Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China. "

    Do I need to draw a Venn diagram?

    Romney's not a liar here. He's just being logically lazy by just reading the URL rather than the article. But he's a busy man, we know.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Oct 27, 2012 3:33 AM GMT
    President Obama saving the auto industry is what will swing Ohio voters his way, on election day.
  • MusclFurPeX

    Posts: 166

    Oct 27, 2012 3:37 AM GMT
    latest poll--- OHIO OBAMA 50%-R-MONEY 46%

    R-money thinking about shifting to Wisc because support not moving in his direction in OHIO
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    Oct 27, 2012 5:01 AM GMT
    topathlete said
    q1w2e3 said
    topathlete saidFrom the Bloomberg article:

    “We’re reviewing the opportunities within existing capacity” as well as “should we be localizing the entire Jeep portfolio or some of the Jeep portfolio.”

    You might argue that moving the entire portfolio must means making some of each model, but the more reasonable interpretation to "entire portfolio" is making all Jeeps in China, which Romney said they are considering.



    Sigh, localizing entire portfolio means they want to build all models of Jeeps in China, ADDING production in China, simply because it's cheaper to produce and sell locally in China. It does not say anything about American production of Jeeps.

    I quote yet again,
    "Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China. "

    Do I need to draw a Venn diagram?

    Romney's not a liar here. He's just being logically lazy by just reading the URL rather than the article. But he's a busy man, we know.

    You don't need to draw a Venn diagram, and I don't need to school you in deductive reasoning. The comment about localizing the portfolio is ambiguous with respect to only building the models for Chinese and Asian customers, versus building in China all vehicles for all customers. Perhaps you might be aware that there are vehicles built in Asia that are sold in the US. The term "eventually" may be the operative term in reconciling Manley's comment. In other words, in the near term, jobs will not be lost, but eventually they might be. In this broader context, it cannot be proven that Romney lied.

    Even if we were going to interpret the term "localization of the portfolio" as you suggest, given the Obama rhetoric about Bain and outsourcing, the potential of some Jeeps, a quintessential American brand, being built in China, with the company having been bailed out by the US Government, is a very fair election topic.


    You can deduce whatever you desire. Logically, Romney's statement:
    "I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state Jeep — now owned by the Italians — is thinking of moving all production to China."

    does not follow from the article, specifically by this statement:

    "Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China. "

    BMW, a quintessentially German brand, has expanded production in China. Germans are not quaking in their shoes about BMW eventually moving ALL production to China.

    Big brouhaha about nothing.

    You remind me of a certain member named socalfitness in your obstinacy in argument.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Oct 27, 2012 1:18 PM GMT
    MusclFurPeX saidyep WILLARD ROMNEY IS BULLSHIT--- TOTAL LIAR!



    a pathalogical liar.



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  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Oct 27, 2012 1:32 PM GMT
    Racist Voters? Sununnu Palin Hannity and all the rest have that covered ... Check

    Uninformed Stupid people ? How can I get them? I know ... Tell them another lie
    icon_biggrin.gifCheckeroo!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 27, 2012 2:48 PM GMT
    http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/is-gm-becoming-china-motors/

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/10/26/jeep-china-romney-offshoring-wrong-false-gm/

    Fun fact: Jeeps were made in China from 1984 to 2009.

    http://www.carnewschina.com/2012/08/09/spotted-in-china-beijing-jeep-2500/
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Oct 27, 2012 3:48 PM GMT
    MusclFurPeX saidlatest poll--- OHIO OBAMA 50%-R-MONEY 46%

    R-money thinking about shifting to Wisc because support not moving in his direction in OHIO



    In Obama's dreams. Romney will win Ohio and probably Wisconsin too. Also, if Obama continues his juvenile campaign focusing on "Romnesia" and "Big Bird" and with a condescending tone like "We've got this thing called aircraft carriers" he may well end up losing Pennsylvania and Virginia as well. He is clearly in a panic in the home-stretch.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 27, 2012 4:19 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    MusclFurPeX saidlatest poll--- OHIO OBAMA 50%-R-MONEY 46%

    R-money thinking about shifting to Wisc because support not moving in his direction in OHIO



    In Obama's dreams. Romney will win Ohio and probably Wisconsin too. Also, if Obama continues his juvenile campaign focusing on "Romnesia" and "Big Bird" and with a condescending tone like "We've got this thing called aircraft carriers" he may well end up losing Pennsylvania and Virginia as well. He is clearly in a panic in the home-stretch.


    Another dispatch from the conservative bubble where reality never eeks in.
  • MusclFurPeX

    Posts: 166

    Oct 27, 2012 7:11 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    MusclFurPeX saidlatest poll--- OHIO OBAMA 50%-R-MONEY 46%

    R-money thinking about shifting to Wisc because support not moving in his direction in OHIO



    In Obama's dreams. Romney will win Ohio and probably Wisconsin too. Also, if Obama continues his juvenile campaign focusing on "Romnesia" and "Big Bird" and with a condescending tone like "We've got this thing called aircraft carriers" he may well end up losing Pennsylvania and Virginia as well. He is clearly in a panic in the home-stretch.


    Why are you calling the campaign of R-money and his liars--LIARS?

    The liars atre the one's that broke the news

    You are obviously just here to get negative attention!
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14295

    Oct 27, 2012 9:38 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    MusclFurPeX saidlatest poll--- OHIO OBAMA 50%-R-MONEY 46%

    R-money thinking about shifting to Wisc because support not moving in his direction in OHIO



    In Obama's dreams. Romney will win Ohio and probably Wisconsin too. Also, if Obama continues his juvenile campaign focusing on "Romnesia" and "Big Bird" and with a condescending tone like "We've got this thing called aircraft carriers" he may well end up losing Pennsylvania and Virginia as well. He is clearly in a panic in the home-stretch.
    Pennsylvania is one state Obama is not going to lose. It is a sure win for Obama along with New York and Illinois.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Oct 27, 2012 9:46 PM GMT
    [quote]CuriousJockAZ : ... He is clearly in a panic in the home-stretch.[/quote]


    There surely is ...someone...in the panic mode; but it's not President Obama...









    *cough*CZAZ*cough*








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    Oct 27, 2012 10:31 PM GMT
    553989_365322066890595_296652284_n.jpg
  • StevieB0402

    Posts: 159

    Oct 29, 2012 4:41 PM GMT

    Ohio 48.6 46.7 Obama +1.9

    Florida (29) 47.4 48.9 Romney +1.5

    Virginia (13) 47.8 47.8 Tie

    New Hampshire (4) 48.8 46.8 Obama +2.0

    Wisconsin (10) 49.3 47.0 Obama +2.3

    Michigan (16) 48.8 44.8 Obama +4.0

    Pennsylvania (20) 49.5 44.8 Obama +4.7

    North Carolina (15) 46.5 50.3 Romney +3.8

    Iowa (6) 49.0 46.7 Obama +2.3

    Colorado (9) 47.8 47.8 Tie

    Nevada (6) 50.0 47.6 Obama +2.4

    I took these numbers from realclearpolitics.com. Here's the thing, if you don't believe polls or you have an opinion about the liberal vs. conservative agenda of a website, is it really necessary to point it out? These forums become loaded with an abundance of posts with people decrying the fact that polls are fallible and you know what? They Are ! ! Everything that is created by humans is inherently flawed. Nobody knows for certain what will happen and if you get your information from a different source, by all means share it but can we stop wasting time, space, and energy by tossing around phrases that essentially say "your polls don't count because you got them from a different source than mine".

    I am a BIG 3 brat. I was born and raised in Detroit and my dad worked for Chrysler from 1960 until Daimler bought the company in 1998. When he retired he was a VP. So I asked him about the China/Jeep deal and what he said was; when a company is trying to break into a new market, increase sales in an existing overseas market, or trying to save import/export tariffs, they often open plants in other countries. It's the same as Japanese car makers building plants in America, hiring American workers, and selling them here. While he did say he would have to ask around among his friends in the company, his belief is that Fiat is not going to close any American plants nor ship any American jobs overseas. The plants they are building in China are most likely to supply Asian made vehicles to emerging Asian countries and possibly some European markets. The article did clearly state that the plan is to open new factories, not ship jobs overseas.

    As for the certainty of Romney taking Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania proposed by certain members.... according to this poll, Ohio is the only state where Obama's lead is tenuous. As a native Michigander, I would be very surprised if Obama doesn't take it after he bailed out Chrysler and GM.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Oct 29, 2012 4:54 PM GMT
    StevieB0402 said
    Ohio 48.6 46.7 Obama +1.9

    Romney wins Ohio

    Florida (29) 47.4 48.9 Romney +1.5

    Romney wins Florida

    Virginia (13) 47.8 47.8 Tie

    Romney wins Virginia

    New Hampshire (4) 48.8 46.8 Obama +2.0

    Wisconsin (10) 49.3 47.0 Obama +2.3

    Romney wins Wisconsin

    Michigan (16) 48.8 44.8 Obama +4.0

    Pennsylvania (20) 49.5 44.8 Obama +4.7

    North Carolina (15) 46.5 50.3 Romney +3.8

    Romney wins North Caroilina

    Iowa (6) 49.0 46.7 Obama +2.3

    Colorado (9) 47.8 47.8 Tie

    Romney wins Colorado

    Nevada (6) 50.0 47.6 Obama +2.4

    .


    Romney wins presidency with 300+ electoral votes
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3271

    Oct 29, 2012 5:03 PM GMT
    David4985 said553989_365322066890595_296652284_n.jpg


    I mean Obama's speech at the UN was exactly opposite of what the Congressional members received 48 hours after the incident.