I'm at a loss to hear this

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    Oct 30, 2012 11:48 PM GMT
    http://www.newstalk1010.com/News/localnews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10458583#comments

    NewsTalk1010Mississauga Teacher Charged with Sexual Assault
    Posted By: Dave Bradley dbradley@astral.com · 10/30/2012 2:24:00 PM

    A 51 year old man has been charged in an alleged historical sexual assault.

    Peel Police say the alleged offences involve a teenaged boy, and began when the boy was 16, in the fall of 1992.

    Cops say they carried on for two years and police say the victim and the suspect allegedly knew each other, with the suspect being the suspects gym teacher and volleyball coach.

    Michael Albert Russell, who is from Mississauga, has been charged with several counts of sexual assault and sexual exploitation.

    Investigators say there could be more victims out there with Russell being a teacher most recently at Rick Hansen Secondary School in Mississauga.

    Russell will be in court on December 3rd.

    He taught at Applewood Heights Secondary School during the early 1990’s. He also worked at Central Peel, West Credit and JA Turner and has been at Rick Hansen Secondary for the past 14 years.



    He was my Phys ED teacher for number of years before I graduated. He has always been considerate and soft spoken but man could he do a single hand push ups without a sweat.

    I really can't believe that such an outcome has befallen on him. I'm not going to victim blame here but I find it surreal. I just find it hard to believe that guy like him, whom I and many of my former male classmate idolized, could actually do that years ago.


    There always was a rumor mill about my coach's sexuality. I considered him attractive then but I would never, nor do I believe he would cross such a line.

    I'm on his side and I will continue to believe his innocence until he is proven guilty.

    Whats worse is that his teaching career will now vanish! icon_sad.gif


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    Oct 31, 2012 12:04 AM GMT
    Most people hardly even know themselves so how do you ever really know someone else.

    I don't put anything past anyone. I've been surprised too many times.
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    Oct 31, 2012 12:18 AM GMT
    theantijock saidMost people hardly even know themselves so how do you ever really know someone else.

    I don't put anything past anyone. I've been surprised too many times.


    True to that its a frail line between optimism and naivety but I still would encourage optimism to be reinforced, till there is irrefutable evidence of a foul action.
  • AMoonHawk

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    Oct 31, 2012 12:27 AM GMT
    I don't have any sympathy for older men that mess around with under age kids ... they are suppose to be the adult, so they are suppose to know better ... no matter how you try to defend it, it is wrong for adult men to mess around with kids
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    Oct 31, 2012 1:05 AM GMT
    All of the rapists, pedophiles, sexual assailants and predators in the world, 90% of their lives they're just other people's regular neighbors, co-workers, acquaintances, even teachers and educators.
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    Oct 31, 2012 1:05 AM GMT
    Fivealive said
    theantijock saidMost people hardly even know themselves so how do you ever really know someone else.

    I don't put anything past anyone. I've been surprised too many times.


    True to that its a frail line between optimism and naivety but I still would encourage optimism to be reinforced, till there is irrefutable evidence of a foul action.


    I have no idea what this guy did or didn't do. Could be he's guilty. Could be someone's trying to sue for some money. I was just speaking generally about being surprised at the capacity of someone you thought you knew. But yes, even after you've been fucked you still have to trust, to believe in the good of people, or you'd never leave the house. Sadly, predators rely on that. Life's risky.
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    Oct 31, 2012 1:13 AM GMT
    Warning: Politically Incorrect post follows

    Is it all that incredible? After all, the story says they carried on for 2 years , so, if true, it is likely that it was entirely consensual. And how different is 16 from 18, really? Can't a 16 year old desire sex and love ? In a number of more evolved,humanistic countries, like the Netherlands, the age of consent for men is 14 . We live in a very prudish, sex repressed society, unfortunately still governed by the mores of fundie christians . Years ago, the enlightened state of Illinois adopted the Model Penal Code, and lowered the age of consent to the age of 16 . I believe ( although I have not researched this) this reform did not endure, because of the action of the efforts of the same fundie christian types , who never cease to revel in imposing their beliefs on the rest of society . There were lots of young 16 year olds who went off to die in World War 1 and World War 2 ( yeah, they had to have their parents permission in the US, but they are died for their country anyway) . So guys can go off and die for their country in war, but they are not allowed to have sex? How reasonable is that ?

    Over the years, I have known a number of guys who had sex starting at age 14 or 15 or 16 , and it was always with an older guy, and it was always the 14 year old who wanted it and sought it out . And they were all glad they had had the experiences . This were not Sandusky style rapes or abuse ( which I, of course, would not approve of) , but consensual acts. I often look back on my own life, and wish that I had known that I was gay when I was 16, and was able to have had sex with an older man . But I did not have any high school teachers to whom I was attracted, and had to make do with fooling around with my girlfriend at the time . How idiotic and constrained by religious strictures are the sexual laws in our country.
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    Oct 31, 2012 1:23 AM GMT
    Interesting post Puppenjunge, but this is about someone in a position of authority over an underage boy. That position of authority is also one that parents have reasonable expectations of, in that their child is safe under the teacher's supervision.
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    Oct 31, 2012 3:17 AM GMT
    meninlove said Interesting post Puppenjunge, but this is about someone in a position of authority over an underage boy. That position of authority is also one that parents have reasonable expectations of, in that their child is safe under the teacher's supervision.


    Correct. & it is a professional position. Some companies even have non-fraternization policies among collegues which many consider neither unreasonable nor an issue of repression but one of convenience, conflict of interest, etc.

    Puppenjunge saidWarning: Politically Incorrect post follows

    Is it all that incredible? After all, the story says they carried on for 2 years , so, if true, it is likely that it was entirely consensual. And how different is 16 from 18, really? Can't a 16 year old desire sex and love ? In a number of more evolved,humanistic countries, like the Netherlands, the age of consent for men is 14 . We live in a very prudish, sex repressed society, unfortunately still governed by the mores of fundie christians .


    How does time = consent? If a woman stays with a battering husband for 10 years is that her consent? If gay people didn't fight for our rights for 150 years does that mean we consent to not get them now?

    The expectation that a coach would not sex up a student is an issue of repression?

    Are you sure you're on the right soap box?

    soap-box.jpg
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    Oct 31, 2012 3:24 AM GMT
    In many jurisdictions, 16 years of age is legal, with mutual consent.

    I don't see the issue. The case should be dropped. It was years ago anyway.
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    Oct 31, 2012 3:27 AM GMT


    How does time = consent? If a woman stays with a battering husband for 10 years is that her consent? If gay people didn't fight for our rights for 150 years does that mean we consent to not get them now?



    I liked everything else you said but that was a ridiculous question. If a woman stays with a battering husband even after one night, it's 100% her consent. If he didn't tie her to the bedpost, she has the freedom everyday to walk away from that.
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    Oct 31, 2012 3:29 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidIn many jurisdictions, 16 years of age is legal, with mutual consent.

    I don't see the issue. The case should be dropped. It was years ago anyway.


    I only checked a few but I don't see high school coach listed as one of the exemptions...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Florida

    Florida

    The age of consent in Florida is 18, but close in age exemptions exist. By law, the exception permits a person 23 years of age or younger to engage in legal sexual activity with a minor aged 16 or 17.

    Georgia

    The age of consent in Georgia is 16 and there is no close-in-age exception, though the offenses are a misdemeanor rather than a felony in cases where the perpetrator is less than 19 years of age and is no more than 4 years older than the victim.

    Hawaii

    The age of consent in Hawaii is 16. There is however a close-in-age exemption, which allows those aged 14 and 15 to consent to sex with those less than five years older

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    Oct 31, 2012 3:39 AM GMT
    IzzyMuscle said

    How does time = consent? If a woman stays with a battering husband for 10 years is that her consent? If gay people didn't fight for our rights for 150 years does that mean we consent to not get them now?



    I liked everything else you said but that was a ridiculous question. If a woman stays with a battering husband even after one night, it's 100% her consent. If he didn't tie her to the bedpost, she has the freedom everyday to walk away from that.


    Then I have a few more questions for you:

    If they stay out of fear of being killed or damaged even moreso, is that consent?

    If they stay thinking it is for their children's benefit to have a home and food, is that their consent?

    If they stay because they fervently believe in some religious dogma, is that their consent?

    If they stay because they have a low IQ and can't figure out how to find help elsewhere, is that their consent?

    If they were raised as abused children themselves and don't know any better, stuck in a cycle of abuse, is that their consent?
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Oct 31, 2012 3:55 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    IzzyMuscle said

    How does time = consent? If a woman stays with a battering husband for 10 years is that her consent? If gay people didn't fight for our rights for 150 years does that mean we consent to not get them now?



    I liked everything else you said but that was a ridiculous question. If a woman stays with a battering husband even after one night, it's 100% her consent. If he didn't tie her to the bedpost, she has the freedom everyday to walk away from that.


    Then I have a few more questions for you:

    If they stay out of fear of being killed or damaged even moreso, is that consent?

    If they stay thinking it is for their children's benefit to have a home and food, is that their consent?

    If they stay because they fervently believe in some religious dogma, is that their consent?

    If they stay because they have a low IQ and can't figure out how to find help elsewhere, is that their consent?

    If they were raised as abused children themselves and don't know any better, stuck in a cycle of abuse, is that their consent?


    Out of curiosity, when it comes to social structure, who are we to say our outlook is superior? That view has gotten us in a lot of trouble in the past.

    Cultural relativism. You should try it sometime.
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    Oct 31, 2012 3:57 AM GMT
    Aristoshark saidCertainly the main issue here is that of the inequality of power.

    As to sexual activity at age 16, I had my first sex at age 14 and a regular fuckbuddy at age 16 when I was in my first year of college. He was a grad student, 22 years old, nerdy/sexy, but for me it was mainly a physical thing (although I have some evidence now that it was more than that for him). Unfortunately, it ended when he was murdered, a fact I didn't learn until this year.

    But I enjoyed it and no long-term harm came from it, except for wondering for 39 years why he suddenly vanished from my life.


    Wow, that's some story. Well, apparently, sometimes closure is a cliff.
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    Oct 31, 2012 3:59 AM GMT
    Medjai said
    theantijock said
    IzzyMuscle said

    How does time = consent? If a woman stays with a battering husband for 10 years is that her consent? If gay people didn't fight for our rights for 150 years does that mean we consent to not get them now?



    I liked everything else you said but that was a ridiculous question. If a woman stays with a battering husband even after one night, it's 100% her consent. If he didn't tie her to the bedpost, she has the freedom everyday to walk away from that.


    Then I have a few more questions for you:

    If they stay out of fear of being killed or damaged even moreso, is that consent?

    If they stay thinking it is for their children's benefit to have a home and food, is that their consent?

    If they stay because they fervently believe in some religious dogma, is that their consent?

    If they stay because they have a low IQ and can't figure out how to find help elsewhere, is that their consent?

    If they were raised as abused children themselves and don't know any better, stuck in a cycle of abuse, is that their consent?


    Out of curiosity, when it comes to social structure, who are we to say our outlook is superior? That view has gotten us in a lot of trouble in the past.

    Cultural relativism. You should try it sometime.


    ???
  • Medjai

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    Oct 31, 2012 4:02 AM GMT
    theantijock said

    ???


    I was referring to your 'religious dogma' comment, which I can only assume refers to Islamic culture.
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    Oct 31, 2012 4:07 AM GMT
    Medjai said
    theantijock said

    ???


    I was referring to your 'religious dogma' comment, which I can only assume refers to Islamic culture.


    No, I wasn't thinking of anything Muslim. The dogma could have been a cult or anything. I had absolutely no specific religion in mind at all. So, sorry but I still have no idea what you are talking about and I certainly have no idea how you pulled out that one question from the series of others. If you could clarify your comment so that I could understand it I'd be glad to comment further.
  • Medjai

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    Oct 31, 2012 4:08 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    Medjai said
    theantijock said

    ???


    I was referring to your 'religious dogma' comment, which I can only assume refers to Islamic culture.


    No, I wasn't thinking of anything Muslim. The dogma could have been a cult or anything. I had absolutely no specific religion in mind at all. So, sorry but I still have no idea what you are talking about and I certainly have no idea how you pulled out that one question from the series of others. If you could clarify your comment so that I could understand it I'd be glad to comment further.


    It's not a big deal. May have read more into it than you put there.
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    Oct 31, 2012 4:09 AM GMT
    fair enough man. peace.
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    Oct 31, 2012 6:32 AM GMT
    Two thoughts:
    1. This was 20 years ago, so one wonders why the allegations is only coming to light now . Did the now 36 year old former student casually mention it to someone who filed a complaint? Perhaps a homophobic relative ? Who knows, but we ought
    to be very suspicious of complaints about something which supposedly happened 20 years ago.

    2. I would have to agree with Puppenjunge, and contra to what others have said, but there is nothing inherently wrong with having sex with a 16 year old, or with a student. It happens to be illegal in the state in which is allgedly occured. that it happens to be illegal does not make it also inherently wrong. Lots of acts are illegal in various places.

    It is ilegal to smoke marijuana most places in the US. Until a few years ago, it was illegal for gay people to have sex
    in most states in the US. At
    the time when President Obama was born, it would have been illegal for his parents to have sex in many states in the United States, because one was black and the other was white. 16 year old ought to the allowed to have sex with whoever they want in a consensual relationship - even a teacher or a priest. They can in other countries, and they can in some of the states of the US. Why not all of them?
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Oct 31, 2012 6:47 AM GMT
    HikeSwimSkiSF saidTwo thoughts:
    1. This was 20 years ago, so one wonders why the allegations is only coming to light now . Did the now 36 year old former student casually mention it to someone who filed a complaint? Perhaps a homophobic relative ? Who knows, but we ought
    to be very suspicious of complaints about something which supposedly happened 20 years ago.

    2. I would have to agree with Puppenjunge, and contra to what others have said, but there is nothing inherently wrong with having sex with a 16 year old, or with a student. It happens to be illegal in the state in which is allgedly occured. that it happens to be illegal does not make it also inherently wrong. Lots of acts are illegal in various places.

    It is ilegal to smoke marijuana most places in the US. Until a few years ago, it was illegal for gay people to have sex
    in most states in the US. At
    the time when President Obama was born, it would have been illegal for his parents to have sex in many states in the United States, because one was black and the other was white. 16 year old ought to the allowed to have sex with whoever they want in a consensual relationship - even a teacher or a priest. They can in other countries, and they can in some of the states of the US. Why not all of them?


    Just like 8 year olds. If its consensual, what's the big deal?
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    Oct 31, 2012 7:22 AM GMT
    From what I've also heard is that victim in question recently came out...
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    Oct 31, 2012 2:08 PM GMT
    HikeSwimSkiSF saidTwo thoughts:
    1. This was 20 years ago, so one wonders why the allegations is only coming to light now . Did the now 36 year old former student casually mention it to someone who filed a complaint? Perhaps a homophobic relative ? Who knows, but we ought
    to be very suspicious of complaints about something which supposedly happened 20 years ago.

    2. I would have to agree with Puppenjunge, and contra to what others have said, but there is nothing inherently wrong with having sex with a 16 year old, or with a student. It happens to be illegal in the state in which is allgedly occured. that it happens to be illegal does not make it also inherently wrong. Lots of acts are illegal in various places.

    It is ilegal to smoke marijuana most places in the US. Until a few years ago, it was illegal for gay people to have sex
    in most states in the US. At
    the time when President Obama was born, it would have been illegal for his parents to have sex in many states in the United States, because one was black and the other was white. 16 year old ought to the allowed to have sex with whoever they want in a consensual relationship - even a teacher or a priest. They can in other countries, and they can in some of the states of the US. Why not all of them?


    1) What would you say is a fair amount of time for a traumatized person to come to grips with early life events before some statute of limitations kicks in? Would the Catholic Church be able to use your argument to defend their scandals?

    2a) Isn't a 16 year old still the legal responsibility of their parent? And even if not, wouldn't a parent still be responsible for the safety and well-being of their 16 year old? And doesn't a parent have a reasonable expectation that a school would act similarly to the best of their ability in their behalf? Would a parent feel some failure by having their trust betrayed? Are there no social contracts broken here?

    2b) You see no difference between a persons individual's decision to smoke pot and a 16 year old having sex with an actual adult? How are those two things the same?

    3) What if the teacher gives the kid a disease? Are there financial liabilities? Are other parties now involved? Will that effect my taxes? As a taxpayer do I not have a expectation of reasonable propriety?

    4) Assuming guilt (and therefore seeing it as something to be guilty of) just for argument's sake, is the adult coach having sex with a 16 year old who is not his student? Doesn't that make this appear a tad opportunistic and don't we set up guidelines in life based even upon appearances (appearences of conflict of interest in politics, for example, or appearences of inappropropriate, discriminatory preferences in business, etc) and wouldn't this violate the spirit of that?
  • Medjai

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    Oct 31, 2012 3:30 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidIt's less complicated than the discussion suggests.

    it is not inappropriate because of the student's age.
    It IS inappropriate because there cannot be consent when the power dynamics are so unequal. And no, I don't mean teenager v. adult, but rather student v. teacher.

    And no, there should be no statute on these things. Very often, as antijock suggests, these things don't come to light until much later.


    When does age become a factor? 14? 10? 5? How do you define it for a population? Oh, right. You legally define an age of consent, and stick to it even though some are ready before, and some after. It cannot be case by case, or defense lawyers will find a loophole to let every pedophile off the hook.

    If there is a defined age of consent, and an individual crosses that line, whether the younger is mature enough or not, they absolutely know they're doing it, and what will happen if they are caught. It is their choice, and their cross to bear. There cannot be exceptions to this, if for no other reason than exceptions create legal precedents that take away the laws ability to protect children.

    He knowingly broke the law, and now he has to pay the price. It is that simple.