Why taxes are good...

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    Sep 04, 2008 6:31 PM GMT
    taxes are good because they prevent Congress from doing "secret" overspending.

    If Congress had to tax us for all the money they spend, then the pain of that spending would be brought home and there would political accountability for supporting any spending.

    As it is now dumb-dumb America allows Congress to spend it into historical debt because we dont have to pay for it. We dont feel the pain. And politicians are happy to go with that, because taxing is unpopular.

    And that is what Republicans are actually doing when they say they wont raise our taxes.
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    Sep 04, 2008 7:03 PM GMT
    "And that is what Republicans are actually doing when they say they wont raise our taxes"

    No, they are simply lying. It's a genetic thing with repugnicans to lie. They simply can't help it. If their lips are moving, they're either sucking cock in an airport bathroom or they're lying, or both.
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    Sep 04, 2008 7:30 PM GMT
    Ouch, the comment by McGay is a hard one to follow.

    Even if there were no income taxes or sales taxes, the government would still need to raise revenue through other means. They need to have revenue coming in to pay for the very basics of government like defence of the homeland, the justice system, the transportation grid, etc.. It might not be called a "tax", it might be called a user fee, or a payroll deduction, or a toll.

    Politicians love to play the semantics game to try and dress up a sow's ear so it looks like a silk purse.

    Some Americans love to point out that they do not have the burden of paying for a government funded health care system. But they still pay for health insurance which can be greater than what they would have paid in taxes. And if they don't have any health insurance then those that do have to pick up the costs.
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:12 PM GMT
    TAXES ARE BAD...VERY ,VERY BAD

    40% of my hard earned money gets stolen from my paycheck by the government. The harder I work and the more money I make..the more money they take..its sick !!!

    The government should stop supporting the millions of American who simply choose to live off the system, hold violent protests on a daily basis and blame everyone for their failures (except for themselves)......instead of working like the rest of us

    If the government stopped giving free handouts, stopped supporting people who sham/rob the system, we would not have to be taxed so much !

    Even Clinton (after forced by his top advisor Dick Morris) went down crying and kicking still agreed to cut welfare.

    A fair tax is 20% across the board for everyone to support the military, public schools, roads, sanitation, ems, police, fireman, etc

    And of course there should be a safety net program for people who truly fall on hard times (because one day we all might be there one time or another). E.I.......Unemployment and extended uemployment
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:15 PM GMT
    nycusa05 saidA fair tax is 20% across the board for everyone to support the military, public schools, roads, sanitation, ems, police, fireman, etc

    What is your basis for this statement?
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:26 PM GMT
    Caslon6000 said
    nycusa05 saidA fair tax is 20% across the board for everyone to support the military, public schools, roads, sanitation, ems, police, fireman, etc

    What is your basis for this statement?


    I must admit I would love a flat tax (fair tax is perhaps not a great term) simply because it would take me 20 minutes to do my taxes every year instead of 3 hours.

    But how would you come up with a %? And just imagine the squawking if all the deductions and credits people have fallen in love with were removed (for e.g. deducting mortgage interest, something Canadians cannot do). Would you exclude the first $20,000 in income as tax free? Would you increase capital gains taxes. How about taxes on dividends and corporate taxes?

    I bet we could spend weeks on an RJ retreat trying to come up with a "fair tax" regime and end up with nothing but swollen livers to show for it, for all the drinking we would have to do to cope!

    And what one person thinks is important to fund, another person thinks is stupid. I personally find it ludicrous the amount of money spent on prisons in the US. Others hate spending money on welfare, yet others on highways, etc..

    Is it intelligent to spend billions on nuclear powered aircraft carriers instead of education or health care? If you believe it is important that the US maintains the capability of power projection anywhere in the world then the answer is yes.

    I could go on for hours because Government's fiscal management has always been an interest of mine.
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:27 PM GMT
    I thought North America was the home of low taxation. Try living in the UK where they'd tax the air you breathe if they could.
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:31 PM GMT
    redheadguy saidI thought North America was the home of low taxation. Try living in the UK where they'd tax the air you breathe if they could.


    That is coming with the new "green" laws to try and curb global warming.icon_wink.gif

    Canada has pretty high taxes simply because we have retails sales taxes and a value-added tax that add 13-15% to most purchases. Alberta is the only exception to this rule due to the oil sands revenue. Canada though has a simpler tax system then the US and I personally think Canadians benefit more directly from the taxes they pay, although some Americans and Canadians would disagree with this.
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:31 PM GMT
    I agree that taxes are a good thing, but there's too much waste. No one seems to be accountable. Our whole economy is based on spending (even if you don't have the money). The goverment has set a poor example in that reguard. We still have the best system in the world, even if we are not ballancing individual freedoms vs. collective responsibility that well.
  • Timbales

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    Sep 04, 2008 8:33 PM GMT
    I'd rather be taxed on what I spend, not what I earn.
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:34 PM GMT
    redheadguy saidI thought North America was the home of low taxation. Try living in the UK where they'd tax the air you breathe if they could.

    a freckle tax...now there is an idea! ... icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:35 PM GMT
    Timberoo saidI'd rather be taxed on what I spend, not what I earn.

    man, that woudl shut the economy down...then you wouldnt earn anything...nobody would come to your bowling alley and you would be out of a job!
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:35 PM GMT
    Timberoo saidI'd rather be taxed on what I spend, not what I earn.


    Heavens so would I considering my spending habits! icon_biggrin.gif

    What infuriates me is when groups such as the police or the health care professionals spread propaganda about why they should get more of the tax money. Crime rates are going down but many people think they are going up. The result is more police, more courts and more prisons. What a waste.
  • Bunjamon

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    Sep 04, 2008 8:36 PM GMT
    I'm a big fan of taxes and the socialized system. I think paying more taxes and getting services in return is really good. Look at the FREE healthcare, education, and social programs that so many countries have, whereas the minimum you have to pay in the states for an education is few thousand dollars a year, plus premiums for health insurance and all that.

    Look how much money these presidential campaigns have cost, and then imagine how much good that money could be doing if it were being spent on the people and not on plane tickets and commercials and expensive suits?
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:38 PM GMT
    "Look at the FREE healthcare, education, and social programs that so many countries have"

    No country has free healthcare, education or social progams.
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:40 PM GMT
    There are times when canadians should be seen and not heard....presidential elections is one of those times. You had your chance to join the union and you didnt... time's up.
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:40 PM GMT
    The UK's taxes include:

    Income Tax 20%
    National Insurance 11%
    Value Added Tax of 17.5% on goods and services
    Council Tax

    Airport tax (when you leave the country)
    Insurance tax
    Car tax
    Tax on petrol

    And finally and not forgetting
    Television tax - you have to pay £130 per year for a licence to watch television.
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:43 PM GMT
    redheadguy saidThe UK's taxes include:

    And finally and not forgetting
    Television tax - you have to pay £130 per year for a licence to watch television.

    TV tax..

    funny pictures
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:47 PM GMT
    They have TV licensing vans which drive around searching for people who haven't paid their TV license. When you buy a TV from a retailer you have to give your address to them and they send your address to the TV Licensing company. This is true.
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    Sep 04, 2008 8:48 PM GMT
    I am in a high tax bracket and dont mind paying my fair share. I also am not in favor of a flat tax which actually would hurt those who are the poorest among us.
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    Sep 04, 2008 10:52 PM GMT
    A flat tax would effectively tax the poor more than others, due to money's decreasing marginal utility (or 'incremental" utility in the new lingo).
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    Sep 04, 2008 11:26 PM GMT
    Caslon6000 saidtaxes are good because they prevent Congress from doing "secret" overspending.

    If Congress had to tax us for all the money they spend, then the pain of that spending would be brought home and there would political accountability for supporting any spending.

    As it is now dumb-dumb America allows Congress to spend it into historical debt because we dont have to pay for it. We dont feel the pain. And politicians are happy to go with that, because taxing is unpopular.

    And that is what Republicans are actually doing when they say they wont raise our taxes.


    Ok, first off, being a former IRS employee, I gotta point out that taxes don't mean shit to the federal budget. All of the money to run the government for the year comes from the private central bank: the Federal Reserve.

    Our tax money ONLY goes to pay the interest on our debt to this private bank, with the exception of payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare) which go into those particular accounts.

    But the discretionary budget (think Defense, VA, Dept of Ed, NASA, HHS, etc) is all funded from loans to our federal government from the private central reserve bank.

    Long story short, we will NEVER be out of debt for the fact that the more money the fed creates, the more money is needed to pay it off, hence higher taxation no matter who is in charge through the hidden tax of inflation due to our devalued currency.

    The system works as long as we consumers keep taking out loans, which allow the banking system to create more money through fractional lending. But when that changes, eventually the debt to the private central bank will catch up and consume us all.
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    Sep 05, 2008 12:34 AM GMT
    conativejj, what you're describing is the government's monetization of the debt, when the Treasury sells bonds to the Reserve.

    You are not correct that monetized debt is the only source of money for spending. The government also sells debt on the open market (when the Treasury sells bonds, as opposed to when the Fed Reserve resells the bonds it bought), and, yes, it uses tax revenue.

    Your claim that our income tax money only goes to pay the interest on the debt doesn't make sense, since income tax revenues exceed the interest payments. Compare the income tax of 2007 (totaling over $1.4 trillion - open Table 1 and add the personal and corporate income taxes) with the (appallingly high) interest payments on the debt for 2007 (scroll down - it's about $43[0] billion).

    (edit: I corrected the link for the tax revenue info - it was the wrong data - and corrected other stupid typos)
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    Sep 05, 2008 10:42 AM GMT
    Caslon6000 saidThere are times when canadians should be seen and not heard....presidential elections is one of those times. You had your chance to join the union and you didnt... time's up.


    Hmpf, I agree Canadians should mind their P's & Q's during the year long media circus that sometimes impersonates an election campaign, but unfortunately when the US gets a cold, Canada gets pneumonia. The USA is heading towards pneumonia, so Canada could be fucked.

    I will give Bunjamon the benefit of the doubt. He is young so he does not know first hand how much we pay in taxes in this country!
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    Sep 05, 2008 10:59 AM GMT
    Couldn't agree more!

    I just think

    Sales tax
    VAT
    Stamp duty
    Motor Tax
    Waste disposal charges
    Water Tax
    Gas/Fuel Tax
    Packaging levy
    PCW recycling levy
    Airport Taxes
    Homeowner Tax
    Toll roads
    College Registration fee

    Our government keeps lowering income tax (the easiest, lowest overhead taxes) to put their own success in the media. Yet the result is they are making up their budget deficits with other taxes some of which 50% of the monies actually goes towards the collection and administration of the departments collecting these taxes.

    I for one would rather pay more income tax, then over all we would pay a lot less and also actually understand what we are paying. Instead everyone would rather pay more under the assumption they are paying per personal use of government services.