Straight (d)evolution of homophobia

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    Nov 06, 2012 8:59 AM GMT
    I live in a country which has yet a bit to do in case of gay rights, but there's one thing that's quite intriguing about it: the only people I know who aren't against gay adoption are a few of my straight friends and my grandmother (86 y.o.). I literally haven't met any gay man who'd say it's ok to have two dads and many are even quite aggressive about it. Are straight people winning the antihomophobic race against us?
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    Nov 06, 2012 12:40 PM GMT
    If it weren't for straight people pushing for gay rights, homosexuality would still be punishable by death.
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    Nov 06, 2012 1:03 PM GMT
    Yeah I think many straight people are more accepting than we give them credit for.
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    Nov 06, 2012 1:17 PM GMT
    Actually, it is funny. Even in New York which passed gay marriage, I have been in heated discussions with other gays who think marriage is nonsense. Yet straight friends are mostly in favor of it.
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    Nov 06, 2012 2:45 PM GMT
    marcobruno1978 saidActually, it is funny. Even in New York which passed gay marriage, I have been in heated discussions with other gays who think marriage is nonsense. Yet straight friends are mostly in favor of it.


    lol, I have a theory about that...well part theory and part experience from speaking with other gay men. For some, marriage means the naughty dirty furtiveness aspect is gone. Some guys get turned on by doing something they feel, and that they think others feel, is wrong. The excitement of it, etc.

    It also means responsibility and commitment which are boner-killers for some.

    Rather teenager-rebel-without-a-clue stuff.
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    Nov 06, 2012 3:07 PM GMT
    I agree with meninlove. Its sort of like this thing called gay culture makes it permissible to never grow up, to never have any true commitments and obligations, to always be in control, to never stop being a selfish child.

    It used to be that straight society expected us to be flaky unattached sluts, and we were. For the next generation of young gays the societal expectation will be to marry and raise children, and they will.
  • AMoonHawk

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    Nov 06, 2012 3:27 PM GMT
    Personally, I think any marriage ceremony is simply a re-enactment of an antiquated barbaric ceremony. A marriage can be as simple as a kiss, a hug and a promise between two people to be exclusive to each other. What is at question is the piece of paper that the government sells people that basically says, "you said you would be true to me forever," and that attaches a set of government amenities, conveniences and legal rights to it. So basically, gay people are just looking for equal opportunity to purchase and legal contract between two people, that has attached to it serveral legal provisions -- among which is divorce and alimony,-- which is currently only open to two people that are of the opposite sex.
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    Nov 06, 2012 3:28 PM GMT
    Nivek saidI agree with meninlove. Its sort of like this thing called gay culture makes it permissible to never grow up, to never have any true commitments and obligations, to always be in control, to never stop being a selfish child.

    It used to be that straight society expected us to be flaky unattached sluts, and we were. For the next generation of young gays the societal expectation will be to marry and raise children, and they will.


    It's always been an issue in the straight world as well, among men as well as women. However, unlike straights that aren't into marriage, many of the gay people that aren't into marriage don't want marriage to be available for any gay people.

    This song written in the 70s was all about the Peter Pan syndrome in the straight world.

    Goodbye Stranger

    "It was an early morning yesterday, I was up before the dawn
    And I really have enjoyed my stay but I must be moving on
    Like a king without a castle, like a queen without a throne
    I'm an early morning lover and I must be moving on
    Now I believe in what you say is the undisputed truth
    But I have to have things my own way to keep me in my youth
    Like a ship without an anchor, like a slave without a chain
    Just the thought of those sweet ladies sends a shiver through my veins
    And I will go on shining, shining like brand new
    I'll never look behind me, my troubles will be few
    Goodbye strange it's been nice, hope you find your paradise
    Tried to see your point of view, hope your dreams will all come true
    Goodbye Mary, goodbye Jane, will we ever meet again
    Feel no sorrow, feel no shame, come tomorrow, feel no pain
    Sweet devotion (Goodbye Mary), it's not for me (Goodbye Jane)
    Just give me motion (Will we ever) and set me free (Meet again)
    And land and the ocean (Feel no sorrow), far away (Feel no shame)
    The life I've chosen (Come tomorrow), every day (Feel no pain)
    So goodbye Mary (Goodbye Mary), goodbye Jane (Goodbye Jane)
    Will we ever (Will we ever) meet again (Meet again)

    Now some they do and some they don't and some you just can't tell
    And some they will and some they won't, with some it's just as well
    You can laugh at my behaviour that'll never bother me
    Say the devil is my saviour but I don't pay no heed
    And I will go on shining, shining like brand new
    I'll never look behind me, my troubles will be few
    Goodbye stranger it's been nice, hope you find your paradise
    Tried to see your point of view, hope your dreams will all come true
    Goodbye Mary, goodbye Jane, will we ever meet again
    Feel no sorrow, feel no shame, come tomorrow, feel no pain
    Sweet devotion (Goodbye Mary), it's not for me (Goodbye Jane)
    Just give me motion (Will we ever) and set me free (Meet again)
    And land and the ocean (Feel no sorrow), far away (Feel no shame)
    The life I've chosen (Come tomorrow), every day (Feel no pain)
    And now I'm leaving (Goodbye Mary), got to go (Goodbye Jane)
    Hit the road (Will we ever), I say it once again (Meet again)
    Yes I'm leaving (Feel no sorrow), got to go (Feel no shame)
    Got to go (Come tomorrow), I'm sorry I must tell you (Feel no pain)
    Goodbye Mary (Goodbye Mary), goodbye Jane (Goodbye Jane)
    Will we ever motion (Will we ever) meet again (Meet again)

    I believe, yes, I've got to get away"
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    Nov 06, 2012 3:29 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidIf it weren't for straight people pushing for gay rights, homosexuality would still be punishable by death.


    lol, +1
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    Nov 06, 2012 7:05 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidPersonally, I think any marriage ceremony is simply a re-enactment of an antiquated barbaric ceremony. A marriage can be as simple as a kiss, a hug and a promise between two people to be exclusive to each other. What is at question is the piece of paper that the government sells people that basically says, "you said you would be true to me forever," and that attaches a set of government amenities, conveniences and legal rights to it. So basically, gay people are just looking for equal opportunity to purchase and legal contract between two people, that has attached to it serveral legal provisions -- among which is divorce and alimony,-- which is currently only open to two people that are of the opposite sex.
    You are really underestimating how important the rights of marriage are. Both of my grandfathers died long before my grandmothers. The old women were well cared for in their old age primarily because of the contractual ties of marriage that enforced social security, pensions, private health insurance, property inheritance, and so forth. Had my grandparents avoided marriage, and just lived together the way gays do, the old women would have spent their remaining years in poverty. Just at the federal level alone there are over 1000 rights and benefits to marriage. http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/an-overview-of-federal-rights-and-protections-granted-to-married-couples
  • TheBizMan

    Posts: 4091

    Nov 06, 2012 9:27 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    For some, marriage means the naughty dirty furtiveness aspect is gone.


    This is usually the only argument I see by gay men against gay marriage.
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    Nov 06, 2012 9:47 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidIf it weren't for straight people pushing for gay rights, homosexuality would still be punishable by death.


    WORD
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Nov 06, 2012 9:59 PM GMT
    Nivek said
    AMoonHawk saidPersonally, I think any marriage ceremony is simply a re-enactment of an antiquated barbaric ceremony. A marriage can be as simple as a kiss, a hug and a promise between two people to be exclusive to each other. What is at question is the piece of paper that the government sells people that basically says, "you said you would be true to me forever," and that attaches a set of government amenities, conveniences and legal rights to it. So basically, gay people are just looking for equal opportunity to purchase and legal contract between two people, that has attached to it serveral legal provisions -- among which is divorce and alimony,-- which is currently only open to two people that are of the opposite sex.
    You are really underestimating how important the rights of marriage are. Both of my grandfathers died long before my grandmothers. The old women were well cared for in their old age primarily because of the contractual ties of marriage that enforced social security, pensions, private health insurance, property inheritance, and so forth. Had my grandparents avoided marriage, and just lived together the way gays do, the old women would have spent their remaining years in poverty. Just at the federal level alone there are over 1000 rights and benefits to marriage. http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/an-overview-of-federal-rights-and-protections-granted-to-married-couples

    No, I don't think I under estimated it at all. I stated exactly what it is, a piece of paper that provides a set of government amenities, conveniences and legal rights which current laws prevent gay people from having, and gay people want equal opportunity to purchase this legal binding contract which gives them several legal rights. I was merely stating what it in a simplified form without using a broad brush to paint what it is and also tongue in cheek bashing all marriage contracts for what they also represent, but which people never state.
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    Nov 06, 2012 10:06 PM GMT
    You make it sound it's gays vs straights, where what it really is is open-minded, compassionate humans vs ignorant, biggoted animals. I think humans will win in the end.
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    Nov 07, 2012 5:06 PM GMT
    TheBizMan said
    meninlove said

    For some, marriage means the naughty dirty furtiveness aspect is gone.


    This is usually the only argument I see by gay men against gay marriage.

    It's the one they'll publicly admit.
    If you're single because you're a victim of your culture, then you don't have to admit any responsibility for being unwilling/unable to find someone to love and to love you back.
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    Nov 07, 2012 6:06 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidIf it weren't for straight people pushing for gay rights, homosexuality would still be punishable by death.


    Ditto.
    We need them.
    (In spite of hostility amongst members of the various gay communities) I think many might realize that we can offer them refreshing out-of-the-box thinking that can improve their quality of life (open mindedness and willingness to be unconventional).