Is there any benefit to getting to 9% BF before bulking?

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    Nov 06, 2012 2:39 PM GMT
    Hey guys,

    So to take away from the normal banter, craziness, and GAY threads, I actually have a fitness discussion.

    I wanted to know if it is worth getting to 9% BF before starting a bulk. Im at about 13% now, and have close to 8lbs to lose to get to that 9%, which is something I want, but as soon as I hit it Im going to go on my bulk again and gain back all the weight. Is it worth it for me to cut out all the foods I love to lose the weight or should I just start on a bulk, build muscle, and hope that the muscle ends up eating tons of calories for me down the line to lose weight?

    Any ideas for people who have been in this situation before?
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    Nov 06, 2012 3:13 PM GMT
    Well, the lower your body fat before a bulk, the less likely you are to gain unwanted fat in addition to muscle. So at 9% BF, you're likely to stay much leaner (assuming a clean bulk) then bulking at a higher BF.
  • MikeW

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    Nov 06, 2012 4:07 PM GMT
    Fiyero27 saidWell, the lower your body fat before a bulk, the less likely you are to gain unwanted fat in addition to muscle. So at 9% BF, you're likely to stay much leaner (assuming a clean bulk) then bulking at a higher BF.


    I'm sure no fitness guru but ^^ that's my understanding as well. What's the point of "bulking" if the bulk is fat? Isn't the point to increase muscle mass while staying lean?
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    Nov 06, 2012 4:30 PM GMT
    Bulking is eating enough to gain weight/muscle. Your body builds muscle when you eat excess calories, and burns fat when you eat less than you need. A clean bulk will lower the amount of body fat you build during a bulk but it can't be stopped. Any bulking will build body fat with the muscle.
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    Nov 06, 2012 4:50 PM GMT
    Dude, you could lose 8 pounds in a couple of months, conservatively. If you want to start your bulk with lower body fat I'd say it's worth the effort. Plus if you aren't cutting during the holidays, you're more likely to eat a bunch of crapola.
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    Nov 06, 2012 4:58 PM GMT
    If you are considering Intermittent fasting then, if i remember correctly, Martin Berkhan suggests to get to 10%bf before you start bulking. I don't think single digit bf is suggested.
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    Nov 06, 2012 5:01 PM GMT
    Paleo diet will build muscle while burning bad fat( around the gut). If it works for a old guy it will work double for you.
  • MikeW

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    Nov 06, 2012 5:01 PM GMT
    Chainers saidBulking is eating enough to gain weight/muscle. Your body builds muscle when you eat excess calories, and burns fat when you eat less than you need. A clean bulk will lower the amount of body fat you build during a bulk but it can't be stopped. Any bulking will build body fat with the muscle.


    Right, but the point is to find the right balance, isn't it? So you take your measurements (especially around your waist) and monitor your eating in relation to that. Yeah, you have to eat more to build muscle than when you're cutting but not too much more. And of course, beyond food quality, it depends on a lot of things, genetics, age, the kind of program you're working, frequency, etc.
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    Nov 06, 2012 5:08 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidPaleo diet will build muscle while burning bad fat( around the gut). If it works for a old guy it will work double for you.


    Only if you eat at a caloric deficit. Just like any other diet.
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Nov 06, 2012 6:03 PM GMT
    Yes there definitely is an advantage at 9% body fat your abs should show unless you don't eat a clean diet. Once you have abs they are easier to get back even if you chose to bulk up. Your body looks more than 13% why would you want to put on more bulkicon_question.gif Work on the abs and core and cutting first.
    Even though you are a mean spirited little man who attacked me first unprovoked- I call it I see it and give great advice.icon_idea.gif
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    Nov 06, 2012 7:21 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidPaleo diet will build muscle while burning bad fat( around the gut). If it works for a old guy it will work double for you.

    Only if he is a noob to training or been off training for a long time will he see lbm gain and fat loss at the same time for a short period.
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    Nov 06, 2012 7:24 PM GMT
    Whatever Chainers, You're Hot!

    Anyway, go on.... icon_cool.gif
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    Nov 06, 2012 7:33 PM GMT
    GigoloAssassin saidWhatever Chainers, You're Hot!

    Anyway, go on.... icon_cool.gif
    icon_evil.gif

    The same thought crossed my mind, but I do enjoy a good fitness forum every now and then. It's enjoyable to learn from all these jocks.
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    Nov 06, 2012 9:15 PM GMT
    ^ Um, I think Chainers is smart enough to know you have to lift during a bulk. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Nov 06, 2012 9:21 PM GMT
    showme said^ Um, I think Chainers is smart enough to know you have to lift during a bulk. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Thank you. Also a clean bulk refers to eating tons of healthy foods as opposedto a dirty bulk where you eat wwhatever you want.
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    Nov 06, 2012 11:51 PM GMT
    Fiyero27 saidWell, the lower your body fat before a bulk, the less likely you are to gain unwanted fat in addition to muscle. So at 9% BF, you're likely to stay much leaner (assuming a clean bulk) then bulking at a higher BF.


    That's simply not true. Fat has more to do with metabolic rate, genetics, amount of muscle carried, activity and diet.

    Truth is, most folks will do better by NOT getting too lean. Doing a starvation diet trains the body to run slower (it's called the famine response...and it's genetically hard wired into everyone...it's the principal reason starvation diets FAIL).

    If you are anabolic (a surplus of calories, and a lack of cortisone, in an abundance of androgen), you will gain. The best way to do that, is too eat small meals often, all day long, every day, with HIIT and moderate weight training at moderate to high rep ranges, training for sacroplasmic hypertrophy.

    Understanding the insulin response is key to understanding how to keep fat off, and gaining muscle.

    If you understand the insulin response, you CAN gain while getting leaner, and speeding up your metabolic rate.
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    Nov 07, 2012 8:17 PM GMT
    chuckystud said
    Fiyero27 saidWell, the lower your body fat before a bulk, the less likely you are to gain unwanted fat in addition to muscle. So at 9% BF, you're likely to stay much leaner (assuming a clean bulk) then bulking at a higher BF.


    That's simply not true. Fat has more to do with metabolic rate, genetics, amount of muscle carried, activity and diet.

    Truth is, most folks will do better by NOT getting too lean. Doing a starvation diet trains the body to run slower (it's called the famine response...and it's genetically hard wired into everyone...it's the principal reason starvation diets FAIL).

    If you are anabolic (a surplus of calories, and a lack of cortisone, in an abundance of androgen), you will gain. The best way to do that, is too eat small meals often, all day long, every day, with HIIT and moderate weight training at moderate to high rep ranges, training for sacroplasmic hypertrophy.

    Understanding the insulin response is key to understanding how to keep fat off, and gaining muscle.

    If you understand the insulin response, you CAN gain while getting leaner, and speeding up your metabolic rate.


    Just a couple of thoughts. My views only.

    Getting leaner is not the same as a "starvation diet." and if done the right way, won't necessarily "train your body to run slower."

    If you're a regular guy who wants more muscle and less body fat, you can bulk then cut, or cut then bulk then cut but less than the first time, or do a recomp, which can be pretty slow (but not necessarily slower than a bulk then a cut or vice versa). And you don't have to eat continually with really small meals, you'll get bigger if you hit your macros pretty much regardless of timing.

    Really, your choice. Lots of ways to skin a cat.