Any Constitutional Scholars? A couple of scenarios here...

  • WhoDey

    Posts: 561

    Nov 06, 2012 9:04 PM GMT
    I'm not saying any of these things will happen, but in these fake scenarios, I want to know what would happen in order to know the Constitution better...

    1. Romney and Obama are tied in the Electoral College at 269. We all know (or should know) that the new House selects the President, and the new Senate selects the VP. The Republicans control the House and choose Romney. The Senate is split 50-50. How is this decided?

    2. Same tie scenario. The House is split. The 217 Republicans choose Romney, and the 217 Democrats choose Obama. An independent, "John Doe" chooses Gary Johnson. How is this decided.

    Again, I know these won't happen, but curious to see what the next steps would be...
  • ohioguy12

    Posts: 2024

    Nov 06, 2012 10:50 PM GMT
    CNN just did a pretty good breakdown of this:

    1. They said if it's a tie Biden can cast for himself, but that is weird because it is suppose to be the "newly elected senate"

    2. Each state gets 1 vote determined my House members. Weird because a state like North Dakota would have same amount of power as California. States like Minnesota and Oregon have the same amount of Dems and Rep in the House, so they essentially their vote would end in a tie, and thus no vote.
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    Nov 06, 2012 11:37 PM GMT
    ohioguy12 saidCNN just did a pretty good breakdown of this:

    1. They said if it's a tie Biden can cast for himself, but that is weird because it is suppose to be the "newly elected senate"

    2. Each state gets 1 vote determined my House members. Weird because a state like North Dakota would have same amount of power as California. States like Minnesota and Oregon have the same amount of Dems and Rep in the House, so they essentially their vote would end in a tie, and thus no vote.


    1. I think I have missed something. It sounds like a 'chicken and egg' scenario. If there is an electoral college tie and a 50-50 Senate has to vote for a VP, how can the VP break the Senate tie with his casting vote if the Senate has not yet elected a VP?

    2. Even with 1 vote per state in the House, they could still tie 25-25, in which case wouldn't they just be locked in a perpetual round of voting? Meanwhile, assuming the Senate had got their act together, the VP would be acting President.
  • ohioguy12

    Posts: 2024

    Nov 06, 2012 11:43 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    ohioguy12 saidCNN just did a pretty good breakdown of this:

    1. They said if it's a tie Biden can cast for himself, but that is weird because it is suppose to be the "newly elected senate"

    2. Each state gets 1 vote determined my House members. Weird because a state like North Dakota would have same amount of power as California. States like Minnesota and Oregon have the same amount of Dems and Rep in the House, so they essentially their vote would end in a tie, and thus no vote.


    1. I think I have missed something. It sounds like a 'chicken and egg' scenario. If there is an electoral college tie and a 50-50 Senate has to vote for a VP, how can the VP break the Senate tie with his casting vote if the Senate has not yet elected a VP?


    I'm not completely sure, but I'd guess since the Senate gets sworn in before the VP and Pres, Biden would be the sitting tie breaker at the time. But that would most definitely be sent to the Supreme Court to rule
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    Nov 06, 2012 11:53 PM GMT
    ohioguy12 said
    Ex_Mil8 said
    ohioguy12 saidCNN just did a pretty good breakdown of this:

    1. They said if it's a tie Biden can cast for himself, but that is weird because it is suppose to be the "newly elected senate"

    2. Each state gets 1 vote determined my House members. Weird because a state like North Dakota would have same amount of power as California. States like Minnesota and Oregon have the same amount of Dems and Rep in the House, so they essentially their vote would end in a tie, and thus no vote.


    1. I think I have missed something. It sounds like a 'chicken and egg' scenario. If there is an electoral college tie and a 50-50 Senate has to vote for a VP, how can the VP break the Senate tie with his casting vote if the Senate has not yet elected a VP?


    I'm not completely sure, but I'd guess since the Senate gets sworn in before the VP and Pres, Biden would be the sitting tie breaker at the time. But that would most definitely be sent to the Supreme Court to rule


    Remember, Senate terms are staggered, so it is not a 'new' Senate as such. Perhaps Joe Biden remains VP and President of the Senate, in the event of an electoral college tie. That would allow him to break the Senate tie, vote himself VP and become acting POTUS until such time as the House got round to electing a new president.
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    Nov 06, 2012 11:57 PM GMT
    Lots of lawyers would be laughing all the way to the bank in this extremely unlikely scenario.

    But, most likely, you might have a few "bad-faith" electors (in the electoral college) who in hailing from states with electoral laws that do not punish such electoral unfaithfulness may opt to vote in contrast to the vote that they were bound to cast.

    Assuming all the electors cast their votes faithfully, the matter would progress to the House to select the president, probably skewing in favour for Romney as each state's delegation gets one vote (meaning CA with 53 representatives and MT with one representative would be on equal footing), given the likelihood of the House remaining under GOP control.

    The VP selection would fall to the Senate, which ironically has the VP Joe Biden as the potential tie-breaking vote in his capacity as President of the Senate. It is very remotely possible that in such as case, the House chooses Romney as POTUS, that the Senate could select Biden as VP.
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    Nov 07, 2012 12:01 AM GMT
    ohioguy12 saidCNN just did a pretty good breakdown of this:

    1. They said if it's a tie Biden can cast for himself, but that is weird because it is suppose to be the "newly elected senate"


    I did just a quick google. Looks like there's a time limit for picking the pres but not the vp. By that, it sounds like a vote could be dragged out until after Biden leaves office. So then wouldn't the new president pick the vp?
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3274

    Nov 07, 2012 12:11 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    ohioguy12 saidCNN just did a pretty good breakdown of this:

    1. They said if it's a tie Biden can cast for himself, but that is weird because it is suppose to be the "newly elected senate"


    I did just a quick google. Looks like there's a time limit for picking the pres but not the vp. By that, it sounds like a vote could be dragged out until after Biden leaves office. So then wouldn't the new president pick the vp?
    .

    I believe your interpretation is correct.

    As soon as the the president is chosen he can pick a vice president.

    As for VP the senate can drag until BIden is done. I would ask Romney consider giving Ryan a Budget cabinet seat or Sec of Treasury and leave Biden in.

    He has done nothing but help Obama, much like a court jester of old times.
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    Nov 07, 2012 12:26 AM GMT
    musclmed said

    As for VP the senate can drag until BIden is done. I would ask Romney consider giving Ryan a Budget cabinet seat or Sec of Treasury and leave Biden in.

    He has done nothing but help Obama, much like a court jester of old times.


    The question and discussion are about presidential election law. Why not give the puerile political remarks a rest?
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    Nov 07, 2012 12:54 AM GMT
    None of this will happen. It's like thinking that the SCOTUS could decide an election.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3274

    Nov 07, 2012 1:00 AM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    musclmed said

    As for VP the senate can drag until BIden is done. I would ask Romney consider giving Ryan a Budget cabinet seat or Sec of Treasury and leave Biden in.

    He has done nothing but help Obama, much like a court jester of old times.


    The question and discussion are about presidential election law. Why not give the puerile political remarks a rest?



    Considering your posts consists mostly of puerile political posts, why not?
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    Nov 07, 2012 1:08 AM GMT
    musclmed said

    Considering your posts consists mostly of puerile political posts, why not?


    I know it's looking like a bad night for you, but try to show a little class.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3274

    Nov 07, 2012 2:09 AM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    musclmed said

    Considering your posts consists mostly of puerile political posts, why not?


    I know it's looking like a bad night for you, but try to show a little class.


    I still cannot figure out what your stake in this election is.

    Bad night? hardly
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    Nov 07, 2012 2:16 AM GMT
    GAMRican saidNone of this will happen. It's like thinking that the SCOTUS could decide an election.


    Al Gore probably sneezed as you posted that. icon_lol.gif