FORUMS > HIV/AIDS Forum Rules

How the hell have we not had any topics posted in the HIV/AIDs area of this website yet?

Ya know I am gonna start one...is this a blase topic at this point, or are we scared to talk about it?

thoughts?

Personally..

Scared? No. I have several poz friends. It's just part of life, like a differently formed limb, or three fingers rather than four. We don't bring it up on a daily basis even though it's a part of our lives.

I'm not afraid of getting "cooties" from them. When we had sex, we had safe sex.

Sometimes it just turns into an issue like the color of your skin. Sometimes you just never think of it regardless of how common it is in your day to day life.

Do I read articles and news bites about breakthroughs etc, and do we chat about them? Yeah. But hey. It's as ubiquitous as anything else in our day to day life :)

That's about it from my perspective.

Hey David...yes, this topic is so important. But be aware, there were two other forum posts (I don't know what section they are under) on "Bareback sex" and one other (I forget the title), in which there were extensive posts on spread of HIV/AIDS etc.

But I do believe that this is a topic that should be kept active.

I'm not frightened of the topic. What I'm frightened about were some of the responses to the other forum topics in which more than a few said that barebacking, for example, is OK in anything but extremely restrictive circumstances.

What this tells me is that HIV/AIDs education has not gotten to many folks...and, worse, if it has gotten, they don't care.

Frankly, HIV status has no bearing on my choice of friends/partners. However, if they are German or irish, that's a deal breaker. :-) Just kidding, just kidding. Just yanking some well-known chains...including yours...

John

very funny, John...we'll talk about this at lunch on Tuesday [smile].

- David

Here are some fact that I came accross recently put out by TROJAN on Sexually Transmitted Infections.

HIV you get from contact with bodily fluids such as blood, semen, pre-semen, vaginal fluids and breast milk which must enter the body. It is not transmitted through casual contact (shaking hand, hugging). Not transmitted by sneezing or coughing. Not transmitted through insects or animals. The HIV virus can also be found in saliva (spit), sweat and tears, but only in small amounts. These body fluids are not known to spread HIV infection.

Scared? Yes, that is why I am in a monogamus relationship. I find it awful that there are "humans" that are infected with HIV and don't even know it, some of these individuals have many partner. Perhaps the thought of casual sex is great, it has some risk factors. The sad part is I don't know if research has gotten to the bottom in terms of how one really contracts it. Maybe I am wrong!

Hi,
The forum(HIV/AIDS)has been posted but nobody until now has talked about it. Some people don't say anything because don't care
Perhaps they think that the epidemic is over
that the situation is under controland the goverment specially here in this country the money for everything related to HIV/AIDS
is less and less every year. SOme guys in the gay community don't give a damn about situations like this for example who are very important to us.Some guys lie about their HIV status because for being rejected. Discrimination between gay people is just unbelievable. I'm not saying this because I experienced it I know from friends.
Anyway I'm not going to ruin my day thinking about those people who don't care because it's worthless and I'm doing my part volunteering for a place who helps people in general who has HIV/AIDS and you know what guys? it feels great inside. It's OK to be an empty headed but you don't need to be a very smart person to know that the problem is still there. Avoiding it doesn't
fix it. Take care guys

am i scared of it? yes. i'll admit. i do know and have known people with HIV, but i do not believe i would/could date someone that is infected. i've had very few partners, and i'm a relationship-oriented guy, but at the same time, i'm not an idiot, i realize it's still possible to become infected.

Let's get honest. For 30 years we've known about how AIDS / HIV is transmitted.

You have to be illiterate, or incredibly irresponsible, to go there.

While compassion is good, when someone knows how to keep from getting it, unless they have a tainted transfusion, or some protection breaks, there's simply no excuse for contracting the disease.

If you're negligent about something so dangerous as HIV, if kind of hard to be all that compassionate.

People make mistakes, do stupid things all the time. I don't see that as a reason to withhold compassion.

Young gay men do not get mentored and get very little support within our community in terms of sexual/relationship guidance. It's very easy to tell someone not to have unprotected sex, but when you're coming out at 18, have been rejected by friends and family and find yourself in a sex club fucked up on tina at 3 in the morning, you can make unhealthy choices. And it doesn't have to be that outre. I've seen a dozen or more young gay men as clients who seroconverted because they "trusted" someone they loved.

People get addicted to alcohol, they get venereal diseases, they say hurtful things, they do all sorts of of regrettable things. If compassion is only for "innocent victims" of misfortune beyond their control, it certainly shrinks the pool of available compassion.

Finally, compassion enhances the life of the person who offers it more than the person who receives it. It doesn't eliminate the cause of his suffering, just eases his pain. Of what possible value is withholding compassion?

Hi, new to this site. I'm hiv . I got it 3 years ago when I was 21. In ways I can say I got it from being careless, but too much that puts ideas in people's heads that I went out and had unsafe sex. I did have unsafe but not by choice. I was betrayed by a supposed friend. He raped me and ultimately infected me. I'm over the rape and all but still carry a reminder. Untill they find a cure I always will. I was like panicing for the first month over every sign of a cold and every burse or cut I got. If you want to know more feel free to ask. I don't hold back what I know unless I am asked to.

I wouldn't date a poz guy. I make no excuses, I just know I wouldn't. I feel an incredible sadness (not pity) for someone in that situation and hold a lot of respect for those who can stand under something so crushing. But I couldn't date them...and maybe that makes me a shallow person but I don't really think so. I honestly don't know anyone with HIV, but that doesn't mean I don't know it exists or that I don't think about it. I'm just as careful as I can be. I don't sleep around BECAUSE I'm scared. I'm already living to die...I don't need to hasten it.
But one thing I want to mention, is that people in the first world tend to see aids as something earth-shattering in our first-world lives..and it is.
But think about how many children contract the disease through NO fault of your own - way more completely innocent people contract this disease than those who knowingly take risks. Not that everyone in first-worlds take risks, but...I dunno.
Personally, I think about it a lot. It may not have a personal impact on me, but it has had one hell of an intellectual one.

Question I have always had: All things being okay, and no lesions, cuts or sores, is swallowing high risk? I heard that saliva and the acid in one's stomach 'kills' the virus.

Thoughts??

First of all, being in a monogamous relationship DOES NOT guarantee that you're protected from contracting HIV. I know a number of people who were monogamous with their partner, while unbeknownst to them their partner was not, and as a result became infected.

Secondly, if you're uncomfortable with the thought of having sex with someone who is HIV , then you shouldn't be having sex. The only time you can verify someone's status is when they tell you they are positive. Some people may not be away of their status, and others may lie. This of course assuming that you ask your partner. Most men don't, especially in a casual situation, because (a) it's unsexy; (b)the person doesn't LOOK like they have it (again, ignorance of the face of HIV/AIDS); and (c) they assume their partner will tell them and give them the option.

Education is the key. Sadly so many gay men are uninformed about the subject, and they don't seem to want to make the effort.

The only thing worse is when someone writes in their profile they're looking for someone "clean" or "disease-free". While everyone is entitled to sero-sort (not that it's a guarantee), the wording is offensive and is akin to writing "no fats or fems" or nixing a particular ethnic group.

Eductation. Education. Education. If you don't know enough about it, FIND OUT from a REPUTABLE source.

I don't quite understand how you can liken "I'm looking for someone who isn't hiv " to "I'm looking for someone who's not fat"

One is a terminal illness, the other is a condition that need not be permanent. Big difference between the two. BIG difference.

1) I was referring to the wording being negative and demeaning, not the actual statement (ie. "clean", "disease-free" VS. "hiv-negative looking for same").

2) While it is a matter of debate, generally speaking HIV is NOT seen as a terminal illness but most health care practitioners, but rather a managable one. This is of course assuming that the infected individual is adhering to their medication routine (taking into consideration that they're not resistant to it) and taking care of their health in other ways (eating properly, getting plenty of exercise and rest, managing stress, cutting back/eliminating tobacco, liquor & "recreational" drugs, and practicing safer sex). Again, lack of education has people automatically thinking that you're going to die from it.

Besides, what is the difference between practicing safer sex with someone who is positive but undetectable with medication, and having sex with someone who's status you can't verify?

See, it's this whole concept of HIV being a 'manageable' illness that is causing complacency.
Yeah, there are drugs that will extend your life - but they will eventually fail. The virus mutates and it mutates rather well, and eventually you're pretty much screwed - then you die.
Period.

Gee BioMatty, I'm sure all the HIV guys reading this thread just love your optimism and compassionate tone.

Xanadude wrote: "Besides, what is the difference between practicing safer sex with someone who is positive but undetectable with medication, and having sex with someone who's status you can't verify?"

BINGO! When you hook up with someone, you have no reliable means of determining his HIV status, or whether or not he might be carrying other STDs. I see profiles and ads online says things like "clean only" or "neg 4 neg" or "bug free. you b 2", etc. These people are living in a fantasy world if they think that everyone is going to be honest, know his or her status, etc. Furthermore, as Xanadude points out, such language is derrogatory and insulting. There's nothing wrong with knowing your status and wanting to date someone with the same status. It's how you say it that matters.

If you have sex, you must allow for the possibility that your partner could be positive. Only when you have established REAL trust - not imagined - and been tested together should you consider unprotected sex. And, given the overwhelming lack of fidelity in gay relationships, you're always taking a bit of a chance.

*shrugs* there are many on here who seem just as prickish.

I guess it does sound kinda bad..but it's not something I'd put in my profile specifically..but that's mainly because I'm not looking for a hookup so it has absolutely no bearing on who I talk to. I completely, 100% agree with you with regards to sex and relationships - personally (and here comes my wonderful sense of optimism) I do not trust homos in the slightest.

And for a minute there, I actually felt bad, like I'd said something wrong.

But it's the f*cking truth. It really f*cking sucks...but it's the truth.

If you do not trust "Homos".....how can you be looking for a relationship. Do you think someone wants to pursue someone with your lack of optimism and negativity?
Aren't you a homo? Do you not trust yourself either?

You sound angry :-(

BioMatty, it's not about "truth." It's about showing some compassion and sensitivity, being a decent and respectful human being. That's all.

Where's all your anger coming from?

Considering that the newer class of drugs have been on the market for much less time than HIV has been treated, I don't really see how you can confidently say that they will inevitably fail & that people will die.

I do agree that saying it is a managable illness has made SOME people complacent and that they have taken unnecessary risks and in turn become infected. HOWEVER, there are other factors (ie. meeting potiential partners in bath houses, depression, low self-esteem, drug and/or alcohol use, or a combination thereof) that lead men to partake in high-risk behaviour, which in turn leads to the increase in infection rates. As such, having protected sex with someone hiv BUT on meds is still safer!

I find it interesting that in this discussion it is mainly people under 30 who say they wouldn't/couldn't do it. I think this may have to do with the fact that there hasn't been much emphasis & education put towards the issue as it was in the late 80's & into the 90's. As opposed to being confronted with it, people now have to seek it out on their own. As such, I think that many of the (self-presumed) negative crowd have become themselves complacent in keeping themselves uneducated.

And my above question just continues to be unanswered........awww....

sorry about that mikeintoronto...actually I have been told swallowing is safer than "swishing" it in your mouth! There is a lesser chance of hiv entering through otherwise-unknown cuts or sores in your mouth if you just swallow. Mind you, you shouldn't be swallowing mass quantities of others' semen for other reasons (ie. a friend once got gonhorreah (sp?) of the throat (!!!) from doing that -- and it was brutal!)

With regards to this specific subject.. I AM pretty damn negative. I really can't help it - it honestly scares the crap out of me. It may be manageable, and I guess you can have an almost normal life, but the simple fact remains that I don't want almost normal, I want normal.

My tone may be lacking in compassion, but quite frankly...what would you have me say? I voiced my opinion. I tried to be as non-offensive as I could be…but apparently that wasn’t enough.

With regards to my anger...I think it stems from the people I care about making stupid choices and engaging in risky behavior. When I bring up the consequences of their actions they shrug me off.

They shrug me off.

"No Matt, it was fun, saran wrap and a twist tie." (I ACTUALLY had that said to me)
One of my straight friends once said to me that he'd just kill himself if he got hiv...after he talked about (in length) how condoms suck and he almost never uses them.

I realize that makes my friends look bad, and I'm sure someone's gonna tell me to get better friends, but I'm using that as an example - I don't discriminate against them because they're making stupid choices when it comes to protecting themselves - it's their life and they have to deal with the consequences of their actions. But I still care about them, which is why I bring it up, and why it upsets me when I realize they truly don't give a f*ck.

With regards to trust - I know how hard it is to stand by your convictions. I realize how hard it is to say no to that incredibly hot stranger that wants you. I realize how hard it is to say 'no, we're using a condom' to that guy you've been dating for the last few months that you really want to trust. I've gone through it, and I've tried my best to make the best choices I can.

Do I trust myself? Yeah, I do. I'm confidant in myself, and while it might take every ounce of strength I have to make a safe choice...I'm confidant that I will.

Do I trust other people?
Well, yeah, but to a point - I will not entrust my health to someone I just met, or someone who I've known for a short period of time, or even a long period of time. It's my responsibility to ensure that I stay safe, and until someone demonstrates that they feel the same way about themself I'm not going to trust them with that aspect of myself.

I realize I sound like a complete douche...maybe I'm not 'educated' enough to see HIV as something I shouldn't be scared sh*tless of. Maybe I'm not compassionate enough, but DF asked that we discuss, and I've tried to do so. Do I like criticism? Hells no. Do I like to discuss? You better believe it.

I used to be scared of contacting HIV, but as I grew up and become educated about the disease I became less scared. I also have gotten to know several people you are HIV . They are no different then anyone else. These people cannot be blamed for the disease. The only people who I do blame is the government for not spending more money on education, prevention and research on HIV.

I'm HIV negative and I just got out of a relationship with an HIV positive person. We end the relationship because things just didn't work out, HIV had nothing to do with it. We had a great relationship overall.

I wasn't scared of the HIV cause I knew how to prevent it from being transmitted. Saying you're scared of it is silly. You could get HIV and it could shorten your life. But I'd be more scared of getting hit crossing the street or getting hit by a drunk driver.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike (and anyone else worried about HIV and oral sex,
Check out the link below. There is a risk of getting HIV from oral sex, but it is very minimal. It is not 100% risk-free though, so keep that in mind. Also this link will explain some of the other STDs/STIs that you can contract giving and or receiving a blow job. I hope the info helps and doesn't completely deter you from sexual activity, 'cause that would be a real loss...
Peace-
JC
http://www.avert.org/orlsx.htm

...OK...gonna finally chime in now that there have been a month or so of posts...

Good conversation...

...swallowing is LOW risk...but not without any risk...HIV is ironically a VERY fragile virus...for those of us who actually have been infected with it...you can say we beat the odds...

...NO ONE...who has been infected with this virus is deserving of some of the innane comments made here...I am literate...I am not irresponsible...and I wouldn't say having unprotected sex with my boyfriend who was sero-converting at the time makes me any more/less deserving of this disease than anyone else...

...I don't take it personally when someone says "I can't date those with HIV"...it is scary [in general] to be faced with mortality...everyone has choices and I don't chastise those that decide to date only non-poz people...I can't say that I am all too keen on dating negative people...simply because I don't want to spread this disease....also, I want to know that the person I am with has gone through something hard in his life and has the skills to come out the other side...that being said...I have been dating a negative guy for a few weeks...we've already had "the talk"...haven't been physical other than kissing...and it has been fine...

...so far...

...compassion?...I believe there is ALWAYS room for compassion...regardless of the situation...it is one of the few characteristics I find most revealing about a person's character...

- David

Sadly, empty-headedness is a condition that affects gay people as frequently as it does people in the general community. However, it is galling to realize that the very community that should be most sensitive to the issues associated with the HIV virus and its transmission, has members that are still ignorant of the particulars of contraction, transmission and conversion to AIDS.

The common myth, in my opinion, is that this issue is most prevalent among newly emerging gay men in their twenties. Yet I have known gay men in their 30s and 40s who are sexually active, read that...promiscuous..., and have never been tested...the excuse being "...what does it matter...I use protection...and the other guy could be lying if he says he is negative..." Maybe so..but as David points out in the post above, I strongly doubt that most guys use protection for oral sex...and the virus can be infrequently passed along that way.

Someone's HIV status would not be a deal-breaker for me.

obscenewish stop it. In 2007 there's no excuse for getting HIV other than tainted transfusions, or being attached by a tainted addict.

It's not about being empty-headed either. It's about selfishness in the bedrooom, and flirting with death and failing to be responsible (doing the right thing).

Call wanton bad behavior just what it is: bad behavior.

HIV is a scary thing, and it may seem harsh to say you wouldn't date someone with HIV, but it is understandable. I honestly thought that I would never date someone with HIV, but then I met a guy and we went on a few dates and at some point I asked him his status and he told me. I was 21 and knew a bunch of people who were positive and had a great support network so I took a chance and we kept dating. In the end that was the reason that we broke up. I love him to death and always will, hes now my best friend.

HIV is a hard thing to have to think about all the time, and I personally would think about it all the time. We never really had sex though we would fool around (I did a lot of research and there are somethings that are very very safe) but in the end worrying about every cut or pulled cuticle was just to much.

In the end I am lucky and ended up with an amazing person in my life but I also know at this point that I couldn't date someone who is positive, and thats the harsh reality

chuckystud you said "In 2007 there's no excuse for getting HIV..." and then gave some exceptions. I think you're 100% wrong, and you're reinforcing the stigma of those who happen to become HIV positive today, that they're engaging in some sort of bad behavior.

These aren't excuses but reasons why men are still getting HIV today. Nearly half of the people infected with HIV don't know they have, so they tell their partners they're negative when really they're not. And you'll probably say what about protection, well believe or not, condoms do break more often than we think. Another reason that guys get HIV, is just lack of knowledge and education about it. It's usually with the under 25 crowd or guys just coming out regardless of age.

These aren't excuse, but some of the real reason guys get HIV today in 2007. So let's not assume all guys who do get HIV today are engaging in bad/risky behavior.

Just my 2 cents.

My take and view

I've had HIV for 24 years. Haven't done anal since the time I suspected I got it, I hope I did not give it to anyone else.

I have done oral in rare occasions, always inform the partner I'm positive before doing it. I even like to inform people I have it before JO, like to have both of us looking out for each other.

Even though HIV is managable, it is very expensive. Don't place this burden on society with stupid, irresponsible behavior. Plus taking handfulls of pills and the side effects are not fun. There are a lot of better things in life than those 15 minute sex flings. Long term thinking and self control are reaaly good virtues. I've had a great life, sometimes sexually frustrated, however just looking at the powerlifting trophies in my sports room is worth the frustration.

The gay community does have a fair amount of responsibility. This means, in my opinion, avoiding anal sex. There are a lot of other ways to be intimate and get off. My experience with anal sex it is not ussually about intimacy, but often about power and submissiveness (the whole 'top' and 'bottom' thing). If not possible, use condoms. However remember in the heat of the moment, they often get forgotten or fall off. Monogamous relationships are good, make sure they are truly monogamous and both members honest and are tested.

It was bad enough with HIV, lets not get involved with some other deadly sexually transmitted disease epidemic. With another Reagan in office, it will be real ugly.

Little John

I was diagnosed over a year ago. This website is the first time I’ve included my status on a profile, a form of coming out for me. I was careless and stupid. Having been born in 1980, I’ve heard about HIV my entire life in every health class. I admit I hold some anger for the man who infected me. I’m certain he was aware of his status. But ultimately the responsibility is mine.

It didn’t make it any better that at the time I was infected and found out about it, I was facing issues of serious depression and PTSD from Iraq. I’m trying to make things better now.

I’m “healthy” for a positive man, but it has effectively ended one career. I’m aware that my life is not over, but many things have changed.

I see both Chuckystud’s and Obscenewish’s points. Though everyone deserves compassion. I don’t ask it for myself.

I am affriad, but I think I could date someone who is positive. If I loved and he loved me, and we are happy, I think to me, that's all that matters. We would have to be extra careful, but I think it could work. But my parents, especially my mom, would be so hurt , angry, sad, and scared for me.

I've had four boyfriends and three of them were HIV positive. I remained negative. There is no reason to be afraid of HIV if you are safe.

I'll repeat what I've said before: People who are diagnosed HIV-positive are far less contagious than men who are still testing negative and undergoing sero-conversion. The viral load is highest in the sperm during this period -- and can disappear after sero-conversion. This is so much the case that, statistically, you are at higher risk having unprotected sex with someone negative rather than someone positive. (My partner is an epidemiologist in HIV prevention and shares these fun facts.)

That is not an argument to have unprotected sex with HIV-positive men, but to demonstrate that "negotiated safety" requires more than one HIV test.

I've dated two POZ guys in the past. The guy I contracted with was a random, anonymous hook up.
I've never seen a problem being safe with someone I know is positive, but I am still dealing with a great deal of paranoia with my own partner, who is NEG.

Hi guys,

I am positive and I take complete responsibility for my status. How I got it is irrelevant to this discussion.

There sure are some judgemental folks on this forum! I wish I was perfect but being a mere mortal I guess I'll accept that I may fuck up from time to time. Good for you - all you who have never done anything stupid in your life.

HIV is not a death sentence. In fact, most of the newly diagnosed people I've met over the past few years have mentioned that, in many ways, it has been a wake up call.

I went through a bit of a self destructive phase and being told I was positive was at first incredibly difficult to handle but you have a choice - work with what you've been dealt or fold. I chose to work.

I am in better health than ever, have taken up meditation and am studying Buddhism, I'm treating my depression , and I have signed up for the AIDS Marathon! I am still not on medication and am constantly monitoring my health.

I am not sure about dating at the moment. I am inclined to only date Poz but who knows. Unlike many here I hope I will find a guy to love and we will work out the details later.

One more thing, thank to all those more enlightened posters. It is good to see that there still is a bit of community left in the gay community.

I considered myself fairly smart on the subject 14 months ago. Then, I went on two dates with an amazing human being, who at the close of our second date shared his positive status with me. I thought for one second -- run, this is scary stuff. Then a small voice from the back of my otherwise very practical brain said, "You'll never get to know this person because you were afraid of a virus -- you are better than that."

Gents, it's 14 months later. I've learned plenty about medication, routine, general health, safer sex practices, and what's risky/what's not. We've laughed about it, cried about it and sat silent on the couch while watching the topic in the news, movies, talk shows, etc.

Here's the most critical lesson for me:

People who are positive are no different than the rest of us, except that the intial fear of getting the virus has been replaced with the varied and serious concerns about being infected. As a community, we need to reach out to others and address their fears in a clam, rational and respectful manner. Like any other issue related to life/death and love, if it's more than you can handle, then no one should judge you. Just think hard about the souls you may not get to know and how a virus, something you can't even see, prevented you from knowing and loving another.

Be well,
Jon

PS - Pitty, shame, judgement or stereotypes are really dangerous when discussing this subject. Before you pass judgement, think honestly about how close you may have come to becoming positive -- hard to do, but worth it. Then ask yourself if what you're about to type would offend you if the situation were reversed.

Excellent posts!!!

This is a great place to mention that there are many other diseases other than HIV/AIDs which are equally or more dangerious. (chronic hep can kill for instance) For the folks who may not know, there are vacines which work for some of them such as hepititis (several strains) etc. If you haven't had those vacines you should get them. Maybe the doctors on RJ can shed more light.

On the HIV/AIDs topic, I think those of us who are more educated on the topic should jump up and down, stomp our feet, bounce off the walls, jump on the table etc. to help less educated or younger gay males (really anyone) understand how to prevent this disease. It still seems like a taboo topic in many ways.

We then should LOVE and completely SUPPORT our gay brothers and friends who have it.

It really serves no useful purpose to hate or be uncompassinate to those with HIV/AIDs as the harm has already been done. They can't go back an make a different choice. Ostracizing them is ignorant and says more about the ostracizer. I would rather have an HIV positive friend (and do have many) rather than a judgemental one. None of us are perfect and I judge to much as it is.

I do have a clarification question which may be helpful to some of us....

Obscenewish wrote:

People who are diagnosed HIV-positive are far less contagious than men who are still testing negative and undergoing sero-conversion. The viral load is highest in the sperm during this period -- and can disappear after sero-conversion. This is so much the case that, statistically, you are at higher risk having unprotected sex with someone negative rather than someone positive.

I understand that if you are positive and are taking your meds properly, your viral load can be very very low or non existant with current tests. I don't understand how a person who is negative is a greater risk. I am negative and have tested negative for years and I haven't had unsafe sex in years so how am I at risk more so than a positive person? You must be only talking about the sero-conversion period, but the last sentence was unclear.


I sometimes wish some of the HIV positive folks here, for the benefit of the younger folks here would talk of some of the negatives of living with HIV. I realize that most of you want to put on a happy face and not show self pity, but I think to much of that makes those less educated about the disease think it isn't an inconvience to live with. (littlejohn's post was very good)

A few websites I have found helpful in my education is hivforum(dot)com and thebody(dot)com. There are stats percentages of risk for a particular sex act such as swallowing vs. not as was asked earlier.

I believe the statistics when viewed out of context point out why some may feel thoses with HIV are irresponsible. The virus is a fragile virus and the odds of infection with unprotected anal intercourse is something like 1 in 66, the highest of all sex acts I believe. So while some may believe some are irresponible (and above post freely admits), if a condom breaks just one time, someone has to be the 1 in the 66. Granted the infection rate would be much lower if everyone practiced safer sex and there is no good excuse not to. But, Hivforum(dot)com doctors state that condoms are only 97% effective so even acting responsibly has its limits. So the only true way to "quote" act responsibly is to abstain. It is the only foolproof way and few if any of us is going to do that. Then we could get hit by a truck and get the 1 in 1 million tainted blood transfusions. (my stats may not be correct, I got it from the hivforum, doctors can share. My point is with any statistic whether it be 1 int 66 or 1 in 1 million, somesone or many someones have to be the one)

Test often and always play safe. By testing often, if you were to test positive you can begin treatment immediatly and lessen the harm to your body.

In the last year I had a friend over 40 so he was educated on the topic die simply because he didn't get tested until he have very obvious symptoms. Denial will not make it go away.

Cheers...off to the ball park.

I felt the need to weigh in on this topic. I am HIV+ and have been for 3 years now. I am still scared to death about HIV and AIDS. Was it completely my fault that I became infected. No I quit beating that dead horse a couple years ago. The person I was with for 18 months went outside the relationship with other men and he was an IV drug user. We are both veterans of the wars in Kosovo and Afghanistan. In fact we met in the Army. We both came home with serious issues and I dont just mean the whole combat thing. But its really hard to serve in the combat arms as a gay male.

I can honestly say If I was negative I wouldnt date a poz guy either and since Im poz Im scared to date a negative guy. Hell Im scared to be around my own family for prolonged periods of time. HIV and AIDS is a very raw deal. Did I knowingly infect myself? Umm thatsjust stupid. I take resposibllty for my part in my infection. But I also realize I am not the only person at fault.

I dont blame anyone for holding there thoughts and opinions regarding HIV/AIDS just try to educate yourself and not for my sake but for yours.

I am however still very angry with the older gay community.(35+ crowd) When I was 18-24 no one ever seriosly talked about HIV or AIDS. No one seemed to have it then. All the guys wouldnt hesitate to buy me a drink or whatever in the off chance I might sleep with them. Where were the guys who lived thru the 80s and watched all there supposed friends die. Seems they forgot and didnt care. There is a serious lack of gay role models and mentors. We lack a real sense of community. Most people from my generation grew up reading about Ryan White in school. But we all think that is ancient gay history.

Enough about that Im still trying to move on with my life as best I can. When I was in the military I trained my body and mind to survive and became a effective killing machine. The past 3 yearsd I let all that go. Now im trying to retrain myself body and mind to be a highly effective living machine.

Am I lonely. You better believe it. But that is unfortunatley my reality. I still have 20 odd years ahead of me im going to try and make those the best I can.


p.s. For all of the people who posted that they didnt know anyone with HIV/AIDS. How do you know what you know?

Actually, On this one I do have an opinion. I just don't think people take it seriously anymore which is foolish. If you look at the stats...20 somethings are the on the rise for getting it and then there is a gap of low aquisition until you reach the 40+ range. People seem to think that with new meds its not so serious anymore and they need their heads pulled out of their ass'

OK, this thread may be going a little stale, but I feel like chiming in.

I met a guy at a party. We clicked. We realized we were neighbors, so started to "hang out". After a very few weeks, we realized there was a spark there. On our first official "date", he told me he was HIV+. I said I had to think about that.

The next date, a week later, I told him I thought I was OK with it, and wanted to at least see where things went.

We celebrated our 13th anniversary this past week.

More importantly, I've come to understand that HIV isn't the death sentence we once believed it to be. It's a horrible thing, yes. He had to go on meds a couple of years ago, and believe me, they suck.

But I've had, and continue to enjoy, an absolutely fantastic relationship. If I'd simply let my fear of his status keep that from developing, how very much poorer would I be!

"I understand that if you are positive and are taking your meds properly, your viral load can be very very low or non existant with current tests. I don't understand how a person who is negative is a greater risk. I am negative and have tested negative for years and I haven't had unsafe sex in years so how am I at risk more so than a positive person? You must be only talking about the sero-conversion period, but the last sentence was unclear."

I am talking statistically. A person is "negative" as long as they are testing negative. You continue to test negative during seroconversion, when you are most infectious. So showing you a negative test from yesterday doesn't guarantee anything.

According to my partner's study, random sampling turns up that people who have had unprotected sex with known positives are, as a group, at lower risk than those who have it with guys testing negative. This is an epidemiological observation. It doesn't mean that you can't be infected by someone testing positive.

"I am however still very angry with the older gay community.(35+ crowd) When I was 18-24 no one ever seriosly talked about HIV or AIDS. No one seemed to have it then. All the guys wouldnt hesitate to buy me a drink or whatever in the off chance I might sleep with them. Where were the guys who lived thru the 80s and watched all there supposed friends die. Seems they forgot and didnt care. There is a serious lack of gay role models and mentors.

This subject is taken up in the movie "The Gift," which is about "bugchasers." It is observed, correctly I think, that it became "politically incorrect" to talk about the problems associated with HIV. Many gay men argued, and still do, that this effectively creates two classes.

They also argue that unprotected sex is a personal choice and that nobody should criticize anyone if they choose to bareback. We should be quiet. I question that. AIDS is a public health problem. We are all affected by other people's behavior.

The men in the movie argue that these attitudes, which mandate silence, are not helpful and that people should not feel inhibited to talk about the disease in negative terms or say they don't want to become infected. Nor should they avoid taking a stand against unprotected sex in all situations.

Also: I am one of those who woke up one day in the '80s and literally every one of my friends in Atlanta, Houston and San Francisco had died. It was a holocaust of terror that is unimaginable to most men under 30. Not only did we see our friends get ill and die within a few weeks, we were always waiting for our own turn. So, like the survivors of the "real" holocaust, many of us avoid talking about it -- and I've seen many younger gay men silence people who bring the subject up. For those who went through it, it is a wound that will never heal and one doesn't like exposing it to people who immediately dismiss it as a concern rendered archaic by the halcyon days of protease inhibitors. One can't mentor those who do not want to be mentored.

Mentor me, please. My oldest sister freaked out when she found out that I'm gay. She is just certain that I'm going to get HIV and die from AIDS. I'm really ignorant about the whole thing, and need to know more. I've put out a forum about one specific aspect of gay sex and HIV infection.

This whole post is very discouraging to me. I don't want to become infected, and thought that the gay community was well informed and as a whole practiced safe sex. I see that I'm wrong.

Please help me understand.

Now that HIV is regarded by many as a "treatable chronic condition," thanks in part to people like Andrew "I got my meds, so AIDS is over" Sullivan, complacency has set in. Plus, barebacking has been elevated to fetish status, with more and more porn videos featuring condomless sex. And, with many HIV+ men having decided they no longer need to use condoms, there's been a huge rise in syphilis cases.

From my perspective, it's a scary time to be a sexually active gay man. But, then, I'm a serious chickenshit when it comes to illness.

I was a foreign student in American Univ during the 80's. This is during the height of AIDS scare, when all you hear is AIDS. I remember when Rock Hudson die of AIDS its a real big news all over tv, newpaper and tabloid. I was a teenager then, just discovering the joy of sex, coming from a consevative country to a more sexually liberated country , sex was always on my mind. I been with a lot of guys, do the one night stand thing and I was really lucky I dont get AIDS. I credited my good fortune to the fact I just dont do anal sex. I have a history of sexual abuse as a teenager , really a blessing in disguise since the experience is so horrible I never bottom again. Of course , some of my bf have persuaded me to bottom because "he want to be in me", but I stand my ground. I try topping during my 20's , and frankly I just dont enjoy it. I lose my erection when I put on the condom, so basically we just enjoying sex without any penetration at all. Just like somebody said in this forum, anal sex really just a show of power (I am top, u are bottom). However , I guess I do take a risk when I indulge in oral sex but definately a less risky one.

Will I dated somebody HIV poz. I dont know, I have never meet anyone admitted his status to me. However if he respected my wishes of non anal sex fun, hey , why not.

Why does HIV/AIDS have to constantly be in every single topic?

First line of conversation:

Speaking for myself, I'm not afraid to talk about it. I just don't live my life in a state of constant concern of HIV. I know I'm a bit unusual, but I actually take offense from the assumption that people need constant, incessant reminders of the importance of safer sex practices.

a) Here's a sure shocker for any predominantly gay site, but an important one: not all of us are promiscuous, irresponsible, or even sexually active.

b) By now, people who haven't recieved the key messages simply aren't willing to. There is an alarming number of people who still *deliberately* look for and engage in riskier activities, even knowing the odds. To some of them, that risk even adds to the excitement. You can't educate people who don't want to be educated... At this point most of the messaging just preaches to the choir.

Frankly I'm far more worried about catching herpes, because it's a heck of a lot easier to do so.

Second line of conversation:

I have two HIV positive friends. On ocassions, we talk about it. At other times, it's just not a relevant topic. Neither of them want to be known has my "positive friends," and I for one am happy to be supportive in their pursuit to live a normal life.

AIDS is a terrible disease. Being in a monogamous relation does not mean that I never could catch it. I'm faithful to my spouse and does he, thank God ! And I hope it's stays that way. That makes it difficult for the HIV virus to attack us.

But, I know a guy who is HIV+. He's well but lonely, because it's hard for him to meet someone. I don't know if I could be with a guy HIV+. But when I love someone, I love no matter what. One day at a time... that's the best we can do. It's not easy to live with death hanging over your head all the time.

I feel sorry for them :(

I hope that somebody will find a cure. The virus is mortal so, there must be a way to get rid of this thing. Everything mortal has a weakness.

Keep hopes up !!!! :)

A friend of mine in Detroit right now is getting tested since his boyfriend has reason to believe that he may be HIV+, so he's really worried about it. I've told him the only thing that I could:

Whatever happens, I'll still love you and be here for you, my little bear cub.

Dugan880's remarks might be a bit extreme, but I admit that my sympathy for HIV positive people depends on their individual stories and circumstances.

I do have a problem with people who willfully play roulette with their health and then expect sympathy when they contract something - and there is a lot of this sort of thing out there.

Of the people I know with HIV, one got infected through a needle stick while volunteering in EMS in Newark. Now that is a tragedy.

On the other hand, I find it offensive when people who can't even name all their sexual partners whine about what a terrible scourge has been set upon them. Sorry, call me a hard-arse, but that is a different ballgame. And I don't care if the person played "safe" - condoms can still fail. Promiscuity has always been risky, throughout history, regardless of sexual orientation... And it always will be.

Well, this is certainly a very interesting topic. I just feel I have to add my little point of view as well. I'm from South Africa, a country known for its high infection rate, and yes, I am also poz. Due to my own negligence? No. I simply recently found out that my ex had a tendency to visit steam rooms...simply because he needed "variety", am I angry? No, not at all...disappointed? very much so.

Living in a country where there is so much argument about the whole hiv/aids pandemic makes things extremely difficult. Our minister of health does not even recognise the disease and of course because of that it makes us to get decent medication. Apart from that, being gay, people automatically assume that you are currently hiv + or will be in the near future. There is still such a stigma attached to it and I blame the media for that. There is still so much new information available that no one here knows about - most of it I found on International websites that provide education on the disease (which, by the way, I describe as a chronic condition and not as a disease).

I also find it very difficult to meet people, people have a tendency to simply just disappear into thin air at the mere mention of the abbreviation h.i.v...No wonder we prefer not to disclose our status, no wonder we prefer to rather abstain from any type of sexual relationship (no matter how safe it may be)....and relationships.

Yes, there is a lot that could be said about hiv/aids...and even though it is not something that is affecting my health (I have not been sick once - not even had any side effects of the ARV's), but it sure is affecting everything else - my life in general. I have lost so many friends, I had one who stuck with me...to a point - I did not even dare to tell my family.

I find it interesting that people automatically assume that yeah, I went looking for it. The general Idea around gay men is that...ITS JUST SEX...there is afterall no love involved. How wrong people could be. Even though they "accept" the fact that we can now legally marry...funny aint it!?

Anyways...I ranted & raved enough for now. How does everyone else feel about this?

WOW i'm blown away!! To see this much prejudice from gay men is disturbing. Just think how it is from the straight community.

dfrourke now you know why there is no discussions on hiv on here. Damn!!

I thought it was a bit odd that there where sooooo many uninfected men on this site..
Really i know they are in the closet and now i know why.

The thing that blew me away the most is the comments from Chuckystud --- Damn you are on a very high horse, I hope you never fall off...

I'm new to this site and thought it was great how much info was shared. You know learning from other.I guess that is true unless you are positive and have additional issues and need support.

What a wake up call...

i totally agree with u wildboyorl. and to chicgymgeek a big 'cheers' to you. a human being!!! amazing sometimes how they are hard to find. =)

To mikeintoronto (and anyone else curious):

Please keep in mind that "Low Risk" does not mean "NO Risk" when it come to oral sex.

One of my best friends just tested positive yesterday. Since he knows exactly who infected him; he knows he was infected through the oral sex.

As I am reading all of your responses it scares me to see how uneducated all are to hiv do yourself the favour and visit the following links and get as much info as needed to help you. As 80% of infected people don't know their status and asume they know they are safe well no one is safe from it.

www.aidsmeds.com
www.thebody.com
www.aids2hiv.com
www,hivaidstribe.com

do yourselves the justice to educate yourself on this issue. There are still a high stigma in this world about it not only with the straight community but here to.

yes i am positive but it makes no lesser person of me or less human. i am involved with a guy who is negative but our love for each other is what keeps me going. So to the love of my family and friends who sees me no different.

i'm going to agree with "dfrourke", come on guys. In fact i would most certainly date and or have a relationship with someone that was +, its a disease that we can slow down and live a normal life...people just need to educate themselves about how to prevent it.

If there was that man that made me the happiest I have ever been and was there for me 100% and was very honest, humble, good job, intelligent, and much more and i found out he was + i wouldn't leave him. Never, that is a person just like you and me. PERIOD. GET OVER IT YOU IGNORANT SCARED people....

And IT'S not ok to not have compassion for someone, even if they did play stupid for that moment!!! Everyone needs compassion, if we didnt recieve it we all would cease to be empty and not have hope in our own lives.

Plus HIV is third on the list of the top things that kill people. People die more in car wrecks, gettng hit by cars, freak accidents,and much more than HIV....

ttyl.
Alex.

For all of u that have it , thank you for the courage, strength , compassion and intellect that have and give others.

All I can say is that most people infected with hiv din't asked to be infected and the person who gave it to me most likely don't even know he has it. so to 80 % don't know their status and carry one regardsless.

My lover who is negative when I told him yes he was scared but then like he said he sat down and thought hard what is the pro's and con's about me and the thing that is strong between us is his love for me and he does not judge me one bit but supports me in any posible way and means in life. When I need a shoulder I don't run to my family and friends I go to my lover who will hold me even when the tears feel endless.

yes there are times when I just think he can do much better without me but then like he said at least he knows me and that I do have hiv and he might meet someone else who he does not know and who might infect him where as with me he knows and we take all precautions in life.

We know what we are today or what we have but tomorrow who knows.

place yourselves in the position of a hiv positive person and think how you will handle it if people reject you even if you are not no one likes to be rejected positive or negative

Newly poz and finding out that I have not only HIV but full blown AIDS. I was "healthy" as could be. Every year I didnt find out as much as I could has taken approximately 7 years off my lifespan. I should have not been so ignorant and read more. I dont have unsafe sex so it must have been orally along the way. The hardest part I said when the Doc told me the news last Thursday is that I was afraid of the prejudice.
This forum and others have proven me right. Well...Im kinda at the point now that I dont want pity. I dont even want understanding from people who dont know what it is. What I want is that while im still around not dying from numerous illnessness that come with no immune system, I dont have to listen to negative guys pointing fingers. Negative guys can help research too. Soon we will see a vaccine.
How bout this guys...I only want to talk to poz guys. That way you dont have to "DEAL" with me.
Thanks for the support

A very interesting thing my mother, who has has numerous surgeries and treatments for lung cancer due to years of smoking, pointed out to me is that there are diseases where others feel it is a-okay to blame the patient. Lung cancer being another one. My therapist also told me that in a 'women with cancer' group those with lung cancer are treated as outcasts because they "asked for it" or "should have known better". No matter where you are, even among those who should know better we will experience those who are want to point a finger and condemn.

On several HIV/AIDS forums and groups you will also find those who were infected back in the day who feel that they somehow deserve saint status over newly infected folks. After all, they were completely innocent (regardless of the fact that STDs have been a part of sex since man got his first boner) while we newly infected guys are irresponsible and therefor not as worthy of just a little bit of understanding.

I think it must be part of our human condition - to want to judge and condemn others. That's sad.

On brighter news, I've started my treatment. On Atripla (Sustiva, Viread, Emtriva) for 1.5 months and am now undetectable. The down side is apparently my liver values are elevating. I like my liver and don't want to see it get damaged but I am super happy to see the virus in check.

My last relationship, which lasted for many years, was with a guy who was HIV+. I knew this going into the relationship. He was paranoid for a long time because he didn't want to pass it to me. There were some broken condoms and other non-sexual situations where exposure could have happened... things happen no matter how careful you are... but we dealt with it. He passed nearly 11 years ago... I took a couple years to grieve and had a period of self-imposed celibacy because I wanted to do some personal discovery/spiritual stuff. I'm so glad I didn't run from that relationship, because if I had, I would have missed so much... and I would probably be a different man now.

Since the first tests came out in the 80s, I've made it a point to get tested every six months and have always tested negative. I've made it a point to talk to others... especially younger gay guys... about what it was like back then and how important it is to not be paralyzed by fear, but to also be safe. What pisses me off is when I do my best to try and give a younger gay man the benefit of my knowledge and experience, only to find out days later that he went to a bareback party... or to hear him say "They've got drugs for it, its no big deal." That kind of attitude is why I'm not surprised at the statistics for younger men... I wish I knew how to change those attitudes...

It think it seems to be the way the world works. Ive tried to do the same thing on other issues just like you.. passing on the advice of someone thats lived through somethings other havent in hopes they would avoid the hard lessons I had to deal with but oh well. Ive basicly given up trying. I say my piece and walk away.

I tested positive 12 years ago so I have some strong opinions on this subject. I was probably infected through unprotected oral sex (I rarely had anal and when I did a condom was used).

Fortunately I became infected at the same time the new drugs were coming out, as a result my immune system has recovered nicely.

Unfortunately one of the drugs I am on causes depression and insomnia (that is why I am up at 4:30 AM typing!). I am being treated for these side-effects with limited results.

I was lucky to meet my life partner in 1997, he is negative and has always been very patient and supportive with me. I feel we have a very strong relationship, I am not sure how healthy I would be without him.

I quite often participate in the forums on "AfterElton" which is a gay website for entertainment, books, etc.. On that website I met a 19-year old American who has listened to my advice on safer sex and has taken it to heart. He has high self-esteem and goals in life which I think definitely helped.

I must admit "barebacking" blows me away. T just don't understand how people can be so nonchalant or careless with their health. Trust me guys you don't want this disease!

jbedwards...

Barebacking blows me away too... it just defies all logic and good sense to me, and I can't wrap my brain around why so many take that risk. I mean, sure... we'd all love to not have to wear condoms because it does feel better, but that's just not a good reason, in my opinion, to take the chance.

I know there's all kinds of new drugs and drug cocktails out there now, and I'm glad that there are because its much better than what my lover had available, which was basically AZT. I saw what AZT did to him, I saw what the various OIs did to him... I was there through all of it, and I've often wondered if seeing that would change the attitudes of some of the people who take those risks and/or have those kinds of careless attitudes.

Some of the younger guys I've tried to talk to act as if its no different from having the flu. Regardless of the medical advances and new drugs, living with HIV is far from having the flu...

ryan_andrew...

I know how you feel and how frustrating it is... but I can't give up. Maybe its all I experienced in the 80s when this all started, and all I've seen since then... but I just can't find it in me to give up...