Gay marriage

  • GoodPup

    Posts: 752

    Sep 05, 2008 5:26 PM GMT
    So.... I don't want to stir up any hatred towards me, but I am pretty new to being around gays and still tend to have a very straight, religious background and way of thinking.

    Do all gay guys want gay marriage to be allowed? Or is it just a certain group of gay guys making their opinions heard? From what I have seen of gay guys, relationships don't last long and there is a lot of cheating/open relationships and stuff... which is not what should be happening in a marriage.

    So why do gay guys want to have marriage allowed versus just having health benefits with each other.

    Again... not trying to get people fired up or wanting nasty emails, just genuinely curious and wanting to hear feedback from you guys since I am surrounded by people that would give a very skewed and/or religious side of the opinion.
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    Sep 05, 2008 5:43 PM GMT
    I think any gay man or woman who tells you that he or she is not for the legal option of marrying someone and gathering all those benefits and rights that married people get would be lying to you. This is not to say that all gay people want to get married. I'd say most probably don't. But nobody wants to be denied what others are allowed, especially when having to pay for the privilege anyway. And we do pay, like it or not.

    Oh, yes, please deny me my rights. I'm unfuckingworthy.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Sep 05, 2008 5:46 PM GMT
    McGay saidI think any gay man or woman who tells you that he or she is not for the legal option of marrying someone and gathering all those benefits and rights that married people get would be lying to you. This is not to say that all gay people want to get married. I'd say most probably don't. But nobody wants to be denied what others are allowed, especially when having to pay for the privilege anyway. And we do pay, like it or not.

    Oh, yes, please deny me my rights. I'm unfuckingworthy.


    what he said
  • GoodPup

    Posts: 752

    Sep 05, 2008 5:46 PM GMT
    I understand that... but I guess, maybe my question is... do most gay guys even want to get married? From what I have seen from gay guys so far is no interest in marriage but just casual dating, lots of hook ups, or long term relationships where they have other hookups happening on the side.

    So is it more like gay guys want the right incase they ever decide to settle down?
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    Sep 05, 2008 5:52 PM GMT
    I think gay people are all across the board in their support for gay marriage. Obviously a large portion of the gay community is in support, but some gay people think marriage is an out-dated idea that gay people are trying too hard to conform to. So no, not everyone wants to get married (you will find straight people who share this view as well, but that's a different topic).

    But even among gay people who are not interested in the matter, there's people who support it because they want equal treatment under the law. Then you have the people who don't want to get married, and don't care to get politically involved in the issue because it doesn't affect them.

    In terms of the short-lived nature of gay relationships, I think that's an unfair stereotype. I know of members in this site that have been in relationships for several (10+) years. In my opinion, the belief that men are incapable of holding monogamous relationships is b.s.
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    Sep 05, 2008 5:57 PM GMT
    JaseinOC saidI understand that... but I guess, maybe my question is... do most gay guys even want to get married? From what I have seen from gay guys so far is no interest in marriage but just casual dating, lots of hook ups, or long term relationships where they have other hookups happening on the side.

    So is it more like gay guys want the right incase they ever decide to settle down?


    I didn't see your post before I replied.

    The main point, which those who oppose gay marriage need to understand, is this: we're not asking for these rights to have more options or because we think it's trendy. In a free nation everyone should enjoy the same rights. Even if some gay people don't want to get married, we should be allowed to because we're not second class citizens.
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    Sep 05, 2008 6:03 PM GMT
    I'm not sure that it matters whether "most" gays want it or not. The fact is that there are obviously some gays who would like to have the same rights as the straight community when it comes to legally establishing a committed relationship.

    You say you're not trying to fire people up but you make a general sweeping statement that most gays are in short term, cheating/open relationships. Not a good way to open up your question to discussion.

    I'm curious about where you are getting your statistics on gays. I'm also curious if you have checked on the state of heterosexual marriages today. There is a lot of divorce and cheating going on in those as well. I have yet to meet a straight guy who has not cheated on his wife. However I do not have factual numbers to support the statement that most heterosexuals are lying and cheating in their relationships. If you have the numbers to support your claim, I would really be interested in seeing them.

    Lastly, I'm not sure why you think you have the right to define what should be happening in a marriage. There are lots of people who have very healthy marriages that are open relationships, both straight and gay.

    I have been in a committed relationship for over 5 years now and if I'm lucky this will be the last guy I'm with. I believe in monogamy and commitment but I don't believe that other people should live by my standards.

    Live your life so that you are happy and allow others to do so as well. As long as you are not hurting anyone, you should be allowed to define your marriage as you and your spouse sees fit.
  • GoodPup

    Posts: 752

    Sep 05, 2008 6:12 PM GMT
    Sorry to make a generalization... that was more my perspective from what I have seen so far being around gay guys. No statistics from my end... just the people I have hung around.
    So if you have a great long term relationship... thats awesome. I am only asking questions to better understand. I will be totally honest and say I am ignorant about these issues and that is why I want to hear from people other than super conservative Christians that I am surrounded by.
    ...or I could just choose to live in ignorance fearing that people will react badly to my questions, but that wouldn't really help anyone.
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    Sep 05, 2008 6:27 PM GMT
    JaseinOC saidSorry to make a generalization... that was more my perspective from what I have seen so far being around gay guys. No statistics from my end... just the people I have hung around.
    So if you have a great long term relationship... thats awesome. I am only asking questions to better understand.
    ...or I could just choose to live in ignorance fearing that people will react badly to my questions which I think a lot of people do and that does no good to anyone.


    Don't worry about it. I come from a similar background that you do, and I understand why you would have that perspective. I actually had similar opinions to yours, which I have changed since talking with other gay people. What I've come to learn is that gay people are more capable of monogamous relationships that people give us credit for, and straight people are not as faithful and monogamous as people give them credit for.

    True, some people react badly to questions, but that shouldn't deter you from asking, but (and I don't meant to put words in his mouth) I don't think creyente was trying to put you down for asking. People just have strong opinions about this topic and it may come across as forcefull. It's hard to tell people's mood only by reading text.
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    Sep 05, 2008 6:28 PM GMT
    I think it's great that you are asking questions. My problem is with how you ask the question. Your question contained a lot of unsupported facts and was very one sided in your view of marriage.

    I absolutely encourage you to continue asking questions but realize that if you are going to ask questions in the manner you did this one, it will cause some people to be "fired up".

    You have every right to ask questions and to ask them in any way you see fit but don't throw a disclaimer that states "you're not trying to fire people up" when you use inflammatory statements.

    By the way... I am definitely not upset by your statements, I just felt it was necessary to balance your view.

  • GoodPup

    Posts: 752

    Sep 05, 2008 6:37 PM GMT
    okay that makes sense... but again, no fact or statistics here. just saying what my view has been from the people I have seen. so maybe I am hanging out with the wrong people... but again, its why I am asking.

    ok... I gotta run. will be curious when I get home later to see if more people reply.
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    Sep 05, 2008 6:48 PM GMT
    While I can not speak for everyone, I can tell you that my partner and I have been together for over 11 years and married in MA for the past 4. We have an open relationship, which means we can both have sex w/ other people, though this is rare on both of us.What really counts and make a relationship and marriage is being emotionally committed to each other, being friends, companions in life.

    Even after 11 years, we talk via im throughout our work day. If either one of us is traveling for work or long weekend vacation alone, we still call through out the day, just to chat.

    Marriage is importand and we define it so it works for us. We have noticed that since we have been married both are families treat as a marriage couple. My father in-law came up to me just after our wedding and told me "now I can call you my son" and gave me a big ole hug.

    I dont believe we need to mirror st8 society on how we live our lives or that we need to change our lives to please someone religious person. We should be free to enter those relationships we choose to enter and define them how we want too.

    Always good to ask questions.
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    Sep 05, 2008 6:55 PM GMT
    JaseinOC said
    Do all gay guys want gay marriage to be allowed? Or is it just a certain group of gay guys making their opinions heard? From what I have seen of gay guys, relationships don't last long and there is a lot of cheating/open relationships and stuff... which is not what should be happening in a marriage.

    So why do gay guys want to have marriage allowed versus just having health benefits with each other.

    Again... not trying to get people fired up or wanting nasty emails, just genuinely curious and wanting to hear feedback from you guys since I am surrounded by people that would give a very skewed and/or religious side of the opinion.


    Dear Idiot,

    Do all straight people want only straight marriage allowed? Or is it just a certain group of breeders making their opinions heard? From what I have seen of straight guys, half of the marriages don't last long and there is a lot of cheating/open relationships and stuff...which is not what should be happening in a breeder marriage.

    So why do straight guys want to have marriage allowed versus just having health benefits with each other?

    Again... not trying to belittle your character, or maybe I am, either way by simply replacing "gay" with "straight," you can easily see how retarded your argument is and how it doesn't apply to just homosexuals.
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    Sep 05, 2008 6:58 PM GMT
    JaseinOC saidI understand that... but I guess, maybe my question is... do most gay guys even want to get married? From what I have seen from gay guys so far is no interest in marriage but just casual dating, lots of hook ups, or long term relationships where they have other hookups happening on the side.

    So is it more like gay guys want the right incase they ever decide to settle down?


    Too tru dat!
    Good point...

    But none-the-less it should be "your" choice to marry, not the governments!

    and btw, given the "From what I have seen from gay guys so far is no interest in marriage but just casual dating, lots of hook ups, or long term relationships where they have other hookups happening on the side."
    truth be told pleny of straight-married men would opt for this as an option too...

    But in my opion, we should be "free" to marry and only answer to your intended spouse and/or your religion (if so inclined) for the choice of who...
    Our government has should have no place in this decision.
    Keep in mind it was not that long ago that most felt inter-racial marriages were wrong! And just a little further back that inter-faith marriages were considered sinful...

    Those are my thoughts, whether you wish to be united in marriage or not, the choice should be an individual and FREE choice.
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    Sep 05, 2008 6:58 PM GMT
    It is a matter of fairness plain and simple. I know of many heteros that don't want to get married, but that does not mean they should not have the right. And many people in society do not consider marriage from a religious point of view, but from a legal point of view.
  • MuslDrew

    Posts: 463

    Sep 05, 2008 10:16 PM GMT
    We are taxed at the same rate, we should also have access to marriage, military, etc.
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    Sep 05, 2008 10:26 PM GMT
    JaseinOC -

    You think straights dont cheat and hook up? E Harmony and Match are packed right now.....Look at the divorce rate and all the shows, books and movies on the subject. It's just as common my friend. Are frat guys in a house in college hooking up for 4 + years with sorority ho's seen as holier than gays hooking up somehow? And when they get married, they want their own room so they can surf porn and many will end up fucking their secretaries. Quit believing the right wing that you are part of a substandard group. Those same people get caught getting their rods sucked in bathrooms and whorehouses all over the place, all the time.

    Personally, if they passed civil union laws with most of the rights of married couples, I would quiet down and live with it. I dont care about the religious aspect at all.

    You can be a conservative gay and live in a little town and hide and only meet guys on line and fear getting caught and beat to shit, or you can live somewhere you can be yourself and surround yourself with people who accept you as an equal human being deserving of equal treatment.
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    Sep 05, 2008 10:44 PM GMT
    MuslDrew,

    I'm glad to see somebody else mention this notion. We're being charged but we're not getting the product. Bonehead gay republicans are willing to tolerate it. LCR lets the RNC know that there's a whole contigent of gay people willing to be rolled over like landfill.

    It's about MONEY folks. Just like their stupid fucking war is about MONEY! So is ours.
  • olden

    Posts: 194

    Sep 06, 2008 12:24 AM GMT
    It is not a matter of the number of gays that want to marry, but that some gays may want to marry. It is a right granted to a majority of the American population. It is a right that should be granted to all. Heteros don't all marry. Heteros are not always faithful, nor do their marriages all last. We read on these threads of gay relationships that have lasted decades.

    The situation now can be likened to gays having the right to vote in local and state elections, but not have the right to vote for national office.

    In the US, marriage is a legal contract of sorts, as well as a religious rite. All adult Americans should be able to enter into such a contract. It establishes certain legal obligations, benefits and responsibilities that have absolutely nothing to do with the ability of either party to bear children, which seems to be the main objection of church groups. But those same chruch groups will willingly and joyously celebrate the marriage of two hetero people who are unable to conceive children.

    At my age, I sincerely doubt that I will be making use of the right of gays to marry, but I certainly will not stand in the way of any that wish to do so. In fact, I am actively supporting the cause of those who wish to do so.
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    Sep 06, 2008 12:54 AM GMT
    ...............................................

    You're peeving me. First, you are trying to make me answer a question based on generalization. I hate generalizations. You won't get far generalizing about us gays. It's a good way to find yourself cubby holed and by your own hand, no less. Second, you are shining a light right into the fricken mirror, ouch. OFCOURSE, EVERY GAY MAN doesn't want to get married, just like every American doesn't want to bear arms or protest peacefully, but THESE ARE RIGHTS we enjoy having. I think every gay man would enjoy the option of marriage, but then again, I can't speak for everyone. This, most gay men are not interested in worth while unions, what is this based on? Please don't judge us all by what happens in gay clubs.

    My last bit pertains to your comment about the make-up of the people lobbying, protesting, and speaking about equal rights for gays! Does their make-up matter? I'm sure glad these kind of questions weren't asked of the men and women who peacefully protested for civil rights. Many black people of the time would have just preferred not to rock the boat. Others mouths were blocked by fear. The situation with most gays is similiar: contintment, indifference, and disinterest is not unique to gays. But, THANK GOD for the advocates. Thank god for them because you and I may not work with them, may not pick up a finger at all, but will still enjoy the fruits of their labor. SO will future generations. SO, it's bigger than what your average gay man or woman wants. What really matters is the will of individuals who will work hardest to be heard.
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    Sep 06, 2008 1:06 AM GMT
    I don't believe the State has any right to regulate marriage.

    "Here is the holding from the decision of the United States Supreme Court in Meister v. Moore 96 US 76 (1877):
    "As before remarked, the statutes are held merely directory; because marriage is a thing of common right..." [emphasis added]

    Directory - A provision in a statute, rule of procedure, or the like, which is a mere direction or instruction of no obligatory force, and involving no invalidating consequence for its disregard, as opposed to an imperative or mandatory provision, which must be followed. Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed.

    The statutes to which the Court was referring were statutes in Massachusetts and Michigan that purported to render invalid marriages not entered into under the term of written [statutory] state law.

    While the various state courts have prattled on for almost 200 years about what the laws of their states do and do not allow concerning marriage, the US Supreme Court cut straight to the heart of the issue in declaring that statutes controlling marriage can only be directory because marriage is a common right, which is not subject to interference or regulation by government. Or phrased another way, the God-given right to marry existed prior to the creation of the states or the national government, and therefore it is beyond their purview to alter, modify, abolish, or interfere with, such a right. "

    Straight up.
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    Sep 06, 2008 1:43 AM GMT
    A point that hasn't been mentioned is that your assuming that the right for health benefits is it. In the eyes of the federal government, there are 1038 rights that you are afforded through marriage. You assume only one. You left out the 1037 others.
    Secondly, if not all straights want to get married as is the case, does that mean none should be able to?
    Lastly, your religious upbringing is clearly one that taught you that all other religions (or lack of religion/faith) is wrong.

    The religious fundamentalist view is to take no blame for the worlds problems and to choose a group and make them the scapegoats for all the worlds problems. This has been a tactic used numerous times through history with devastating results. Therefore, it would behoove you to learn first that you could be wrong. Otherwise, you cut yourself off from acquiring new knowledge.
    Then, if you pose questions like you have, do not pose them in condescending terms, or with the presumption that you are correct, and that others need to prove their 'obviously flawed' view of the world.
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    Sep 06, 2008 2:21 AM GMT


    Hey JaseinOC,

    Let's cut to the chase.

    Take some time and read these: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/211398

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/276160

    At least two topics here which should help answer your questions.

    There have been this many gay marriages in Canada:

    Province Date of legalization Number of same-sex marriages
    Ontario June 10, 2003 6,524
    British Columbia July 8, 2003 3,927
    Quebec March 19, 2004 947
    Alberta July 20, 2005 409
    Nova Scotia September 24, 2004 273
    Manitoba September 16, 2004 193
    Saskatchewan November 5, 2004 83
    New Brunswick June 23, 2005 44
    Newfoundland and Labrador Dec 21, 2004 14
    Yukon July 14, 2004 13
    Prince Edward Island July 20, 2005 8
    Northwest Territories July 20, 2005 2
    Nunavut July 20, 2005 1

    That's at least 10,000 by the end of 2005. There were two gay divorces. Hmmmm, this makes our averages of success, (just a little data so far) appear to be better than the heterosexual ones.

    Gays in the states aren't any different from us.

    So now we'll ask you, what do YOU think?

    Hope this helps!
    -us

    PS nothing else happened except that our economy improved.
    PPS imagine how many more there have been since then!

    PPPS imagine how many there could be in the US where the population is ten times that of Canada!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 06, 2008 2:45 AM GMT
    I'm still looking for my Mr. Big
    chris-noth-satcs-mr-big.jpg

    of course he has to give me a HUGE ring (I love jewelry)
    DeBeers_9.05ct-Round-Brilliant-Ring.jpg

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 06, 2008 3:14 AM GMT
    Umm, Shallow? icon_eek.gif