Why are Gay men Gay?

  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 08, 2012 5:54 PM GMT

    Wow, talk about an over-reaching thread topic! haha.

    First this OP is going to be longer than most so if you don't have time or are not interested in this, now is the time to click away.

    Second, I'm starting this thread in conjunction with zeffery's thread, Why Gay Men Hate Their Bodies and youarewhatyouare's thread Poll: Do you like your body? I think both these threads are very interesting and have learned a lot from reading through them. Amazing discussions on this forum!

    I have to preface all this with a little background about myself.

    I knew I was "gay" long before I knew there was any word for it. Even before I was a teenager, I had strong sexual attractions for other boys. This was in the 1950s and 1960s in the rural American midwest. It might be interesting to note that the experience of growing up gay in that era and in that area of the country was very strange. On one hand, LOTS of boys were up for playing around with one another. Far more than one might think. On the other hand, all this was kept very secret -- especially from other adults, of course -- but even from other boys and there was considerable threat and shame associated with it. It was taboo to talk about but, oddly enough, less taboo to engage in providing one did NOT get emotionally attached. Of course in those days there was no internet so I felt very isolated. Although I might 'play around' with other guys, what I really wanted was something more and I had NO IDEA there was a gay world beyond the world I knew. I didn't even begin to learn about that until I was 16 or 17 and even then it was through reading magazines. It actually came as a shock to discover "homosexuality" existed. Weird, I know, but true for me.

    The question in my young mind was two fold: 1) Why do I find other guys attractive (it felt like a curse at the time, however much I enjoyed it) and 2) Why is it such a 'big deal' from the POV of parents, peers, and society at large? I just couldn't figure it out. I mean, ok, some boys like to play around together. SO F'n WHAT? Some boys maybe fall in love. WHO CARES?! But apparently everyone cared as if it were their very own business. Why?

    These questions accompanied me into my teen, young adult and full adult years. I'll not bore you with all the contortions 'being gay' put me through over the years. Suffice it to say that although there was never any question in my mind about my feelings, it took rather a long time to come to terms with them and to terms with 'gay culture' (which, initially, I found very off-putting and still do to some extent -- this forum being a breath of fresh air, btw).

    All this now said, I had an insight one day standing in line at the check-out counter at the grocery store -- and this is what I want to run by you here. It might help to understand that, although this insight came sort of like a lightening bolt out of the blue, fact is it had been preceded by decades of study and inner work on myself of various sorts. I'm also a natural mystic and always have been.

    As I was standing in line my eye happened to fall on a magazine cover that showed a very physically attractive man with his shirt unbuttoned, revealing his torso and six pack. Perhaps it was because I was very relaxed at that moment, I don't know, but when my eye fell on this image, I saw something in myself I had never seen so clearly before: The moment of arousal.

    And what I saw was something very difficult to explain in words because it was a 'vision' not a thought. The thoughts, the words, only came afterward.

    It was as if for a moment I was transported beyond this world and I 'saw' that what I was attracted to was not a man at all but an IDEAL FORM -- one might even call it a 'god' (for lack of a better word) -- I saw that this erotic 'spark' or 'charge' originated from a wish to unite, become one with, even embody this transcendent, IDEAL, masculine form. For a moment I saw the archetype of all male 'beauty' and my supplicatory relationship to it :

    OlympiaS003.jpg

    I 'lusted' to become one with it, embody it within myself on every conceivable level.

    In that moment I felt myself to be fully alive and fully aroused and opened standing before my god. And I 'got it'... it wasn't about that guy on the magazine cover -- he was just a symbol for something ineffable. My true desire was sacred in its origins, much 'higher up' (so to speak) than the Earthly realm in which we live day to day. Desire is the wish for reunion with one's own inner god.

    SO... I'm floating this past you guys. What I've come to believe is that being 'gay' is actually a form of mystical experience. We (and certainly our secularized society and culture) don't recognize it as such because we're constantly believing that our attraction to other men is just that, physical. But there is a MYSTERY here, guys -- The deep mystery of sexuality itself. At some point one has to acknowledge that SEX has a mystical component: That "lust" is a form of magical magnetism; that love at a certain level is the dissolution of boundaries and that orgasm is not only an altered state of consciousness but a momentary reunification with 'the divine' (or origin of all things).

    Discuss! icon_smile.gif
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 08, 2012 8:03 PM GMT
    yourname2000 saidI didn't read all of that. But to answer the OP, I'm gay because I like dick. I really, really, really, really like dick....whenever I see one, I want it in me.

    Of course. Axis Mundi: The center of the universe, embodied.

    mmspic027.jpg
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    Nov 08, 2012 8:10 PM GMT
    OP? I agree with YN2000. Way TL, big big risk of DR.

    I like being gay, but I don't think there's anything any more mystical about it than being straight. You (well, we) are of a generation where coming to self-acceptance was a big hurdle. Many of us went through a lot of mental anguish during that process, perhaps imbuing it with more significance than it really has.

    I think most kids today (at least in Western countries) tend to view sexuality pretty matter-of-factly.
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    Nov 08, 2012 8:17 PM GMT
    ^^ 13.gif.....43.gif

    Now thats interesting!...

    well I roughly get what you mean when I saw this 150px-Yggdrasil.jpg...but I need some time to read it.... will be back on this.
  • TannerMasseur

    Posts: 7893

    Nov 08, 2012 8:20 PM GMT
    I love ur mystical take MikeW. Very thought-provoking. The ideal male physique is a beauty to behold! We all try to attain that physicality, that ultimate mien. To be god-like. At one with the ideal Other. Our gayness gives us both male & female sensitivities, we're more well-rounded beings. One nightstands shud see it ur way! icon_smile.gif I'd have to elaborate on this more when the words & ruminations come together..... icon_smile.gif
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 08, 2012 8:42 PM GMT
    showme saidOP? I agree with YN2000. Way TL, big big risk of DR.

    I like being gay, but I don't think there's anything any more mystical about it than being straight. You (well, we) are of a generation where coming to self-acceptance was a big hurdle. Many of us went through a lot of mental anguish during that process, perhaps imbuing it with more significance than it really has.

    I think most kids today (at least in Western countries) tend to view sexuality pretty matter-of-factly.

    I do take risks. Part of what life is about. The worst that could happen is I get ignored; second worst, flamed to high heaven. LOL!

    I'm not meaning to suggest that being gay is any more mystical than being straight. What I am suggesting, though, is that sexuality itself (regardless of orientation) is "mystical" -- provided we demystify what that means. THAT would take yet another thread. But in brief, we live in a secular era where the sacred has been rarified into the realm of religion. It's actual roots are in the being of the cosmos itself, and us within it. Difficult to sift through this in our age but our ancient ancestors were much closer to this understanding, I think.

    As for kids today, you may be right. Not being one, hard to know. What say you, "kids"?

  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 08, 2012 8:45 PM GMT
    har19 said^^ 13.gif.....43.gif

    Now thats interesting!...

    well I roughly get what you mean when I saw this 150px-Yggdrasil.jpg...but I need some time to read it.... will be back on this.


    Take your time. True alchemy, the transformation of the self into that luminous substance symbolically referred to as 'gold', is at your finger tips. Quite literally, perhaps. We are the world and the world is us.

  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 08, 2012 8:46 PM GMT
    spgem saidI love ur mystical take MikeW. Very thought-provoking. The ideal male physique is a beauty to behold! We all try to attain that physicality, that ultimate mien. To be god-like. At one with the ideal Other. Our gayness gives us both male & female sensitivities, we're more well-rounded beings. One nightmdtands shud see it ur way! icon_smile.gif I'd have to elaborate on this more when the words & ruminations come together..... icon_smile.gif

    Please do! icon_wink.gif
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 08, 2012 8:48 PM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    MikeW said...As for kids today, you may be right. Not being one, hard to know. What say you, "kids"?

    I also have a navel.

    navel-gazing-at-canada.jpg

    Haha! I should hope so.

    To reshape the world we must redefine the regions of the body. I'm suggesting we restore to them some of their more ancient "sacred" meanings. And by "sacred" I do not mean "religious".
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    Nov 08, 2012 8:52 PM GMT
    This might meet some criticism, but I've considered the idea
    that being gay is a signal from the Powers that be/Destiny/Mother Nature/what have you...that this is a lifetime to be spent on helping others outside of one's inner sphere.
    There is no need to raise a family or try to mimic a traditional life.
    We exist beyond all that...we're here for to do something different.
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    Nov 08, 2012 8:58 PM GMT
    yourname2000 saidI didn't read all of that. But to answer the OP, I'm gay because I like dick. I really, really, really, really like dick...

    So do I, and the men those dicks are attached to.

    I'd been e-mailing with a gay guy in the months before I came out in 1995. And we were chatting about my curiosity regarding the gay world. I expressed all the typical stereotypes about gay men, and why I couldn't identify with that "lifestyle".

    And he replied to me that gay wasn't about outward behavior & appearance, but about which gender attracted you. He said a gay man could be a football player, a fireman, police, truck driver, and... an Army soldier.

    That statement changed my life. I already knew what sexually attracted me, but I didn't fit into the stereotype of a gay man with which I had been raised. Therefore, I had always dismissed the possibility I could be gay, because I didn't "act" gay. Thing was, though, that I thought gay. Uh-oh...

    Well, anyway, yeah - I'm gay because I like dick. It really is that simple.
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    Nov 08, 2012 8:59 PM GMT
    tumblr_m2slxjDIOH1qcm08oo1_500.gif

    Also I have trouble seeing why straight women aren't also connecting with a male god of lust or why straight men aren't connecting with a female god.
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    Nov 08, 2012 9:03 PM GMT
    My instinctive sexual urges tell me to impregnate another man.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 08, 2012 9:04 PM GMT
    grofte saidtumblr_m2slxjDIOH1qcm08oo1_500.gif

    Also I have trouble seeing why straight women aren't also connecting with a male god of lust or why straight men aren't connecting with a female god.

    If my "theory" or "vision" is accurate, they are!

    Again, the subject is us gay guys only because of the audience, not because I think we're any more special than any other sexual orientation. But this 'attraction to the inner god' concept has to be universal if accurate, I would think.
  • mr_bijae

    Posts: 229

    Nov 08, 2012 9:04 PM GMT
    I like dick as much as the next guy, but I like the whole man that comes with the dick. I like male muscle tone, I like man facial hair and fur, I love man scent. On top of all that I like doing guy things,hunting, fishing, hiking, biking, working out, sports. I like hanging out with guys and doing guy things including exploring our bodies together...
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 08, 2012 9:10 PM GMT
    Ariodante saidMy instinctive sexual urges tell me to impregnate another man.

    And for me there is a deeper question, a non-intellectual question, about this. Essential essence. Spiritus sanctus.

    It is difficult to speak of this without relying on religious associations which I'd much rather avoid if I knew how. But how to get the "magic" back into it and be done with either shame or triviality.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 08, 2012 9:11 PM GMT
    Guys, I'm at work at my office and will be for several more hours here on the West coast so my participation on this thread might be sketchy for a while but I won't abandon it or you. Thanks to all who have commented thus far.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 08, 2012 9:11 PM GMT
    JJGreen saidThis might meet some criticism, but I've considered the idea
    that being gay is a signal from the Powers that be/Destiny/Mother Nature/what have you...that this is a lifetime to be spent on helping others outside of one's inner sphere.
    There is no need to raise a family or try to mimic a traditional life.
    We exist beyond all that...we're here for to do something different.

    Beautiful! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Nov 08, 2012 9:14 PM GMT
    Ariodante saidMy instinctive sexual urges tell me to impregnate another man.


    icon_smile.gif

    Yeah, I am definitely gay.
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    Nov 08, 2012 10:37 PM GMT
    MikeW said
    Wow, talk about an over-reaching thread topic! haha.

    First this OP is going to be longer than most so if you don't have time or are not interested in this, now is the time to click away.

    Second, I'm starting this thread in conjunction with zeffery's thread, Why Gay Men Hate Their Bodies and youarewhatyouare's thread Poll: Do you like your body? I think both these threads are very interesting and have learned a lot from reading through them. Amazing discussions on this forum!

    I have to preface all this with a little background about myself.

    I knew I was "gay" long before I knew there was any word for it. Even before I was a teenager, I had strong sexual attractions for other boys. This was in the 1950s and 1960s in the rural American midwest. It might be interesting to note that the experience of growing up gay in that era and in that area of the country was very strange. On one hand, LOTS of boys were up for playing around with one another. Far more than one might think. On the other hand, all this was kept very secret -- especially from other adults, of course -- but even from other boys and there was considerable threat and shame associated with it. It was taboo to talk about but, oddly enough, less taboo to engage in providing one did NOT get emotionally attached. Of course in those days there was no internet so I felt very isolated. Although I might 'play around' with other guys, what I really wanted was something more and I had NO IDEA there was a gay world beyond the world I knew. I didn't even begin to learn about that until I was 16 or 17 and even then it was through reading magazines. It actually came as a shock to discover "homosexuality" existed. Weird, I know, but true for me.

    The question in my young mind was two fold: 1) Why do I find other guys attractive (it felt like a curse at the time, however much I enjoyed it) and 2) Why is it such a 'big deal' from the POV of parents, peers, and society at large? I just couldn't figure it out. I mean, ok, some boys like to play around together. SO F'n WHAT? Some boys maybe fall in love. WHO CARES?! But apparently everyone cared as if it were their very own business. Why?

    These questions accompanied me into my teen, young adult and full adult years. I'll not bore you with all the contortions 'being gay' put me through over the years. Suffice it to say that although there was never any question in my mind about my feelings, it took rather a long time to come to terms with them and to terms with 'gay culture' (which, initially, I found very off-putting and still do to some extent -- this forum being a breath of fresh air, btw).

    All this now said, I had an insight one day standing in line at the check-out counter at the grocery store -- and this is what I want to run by you here. It might help to understand that, although this insight came sort of like a lightening bolt out of the blue, fact is it had been preceded by decades of study and inner work on myself of various sorts. I'm also a natural mystic and always have been.

    As I was standing in line my eye happened to fall on a magazine cover that showed a very physically attractive man with his shirt unbuttoned, revealing his torso and six pack. Perhaps it was because I was very relaxed at that moment, I don't know, but when my eye fell on this image, I saw something in myself I had never seen so clearly before: The moment of arousal.

    And what I saw was something very difficult to explain in words because it was a 'vision' not a thought. The thoughts, the words, only came afterward.

    It was as if for a moment I was transported beyond this world and I 'saw' that what I was attracted to was not a man at all but an IDEAL FORM -- one might even call it a 'god' (for lack of a better word) -- I saw that this erotic 'spark' or 'charge' originated from a wish to unite, become one with, even embody this transcendent, IDEAL, masculine form. For a moment I saw the archetype of all male 'beauty' and my supplicatory relationship to it :

    OlympiaS003.jpg

    I 'lusted' to become one with it, embody it within myself on every conceivable level.

    In that moment I felt myself to be fully alive and fully aroused and opened standing before my god. And I 'got it'... it wasn't about that guy on the magazine cover -- he was just a symbol for something ineffable. My true desire was sacred in its origins, much 'higher up' (so to speak) than the Earthly realm in which we live day to day. Desire is the wish for reunion with one's own inner god.

    SO... I'm floating this past you guys. What I've come to believe is that being 'gay' is actually a form of mystical experience. We (and certainly our secularized society and culture) don't recognize it as such because we're constantly believing that our attraction to other men is just that, physical. But there is a MYSTERY here, guys -- The deep mystery of sexuality itself. At some point one has to acknowledge that SEX has a mystical component: That "lust" is a form of magical magnetism; that love at a certain level is the dissolution of boundaries and that orgasm is not only an altered state of consciousness but a momentary reunification with 'the divine' (or origin of all things).

    Discuss! icon_smile.gif


    Photobucket


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 08, 2012 10:39 PM GMT
    MikeW said Why are Gay men Gay?
    Because straight men suck at being gay.
  • kevmoran

    Posts: 1543

    Nov 08, 2012 11:30 PM GMT
    Scruffypup said

    Photobucket


  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 09, 2012 12:42 AM GMT
    Scruffypup saidPhotobucket



    LOL.

    sigh... cosmic reality as a sound bite.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 09, 2012 12:49 AM GMT
    Attraction, comfort, security, companionship, carnal needs, etc... some guys want more of what men have to offer when it comes to those things and women just can't cut it. I know what I want damnit! icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 09, 2012 1:04 AM GMT
    Simply put...God made me this way!