12 Month Before and After & Advice on Gaining for Vegetarians

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 09, 2012 4:23 PM GMT
    Hey all!

    Not 100% sure this is the right location for this thread so please tell me if there's somewhere more appropriate. I'm looking for some advice on packing on some muscle over the next few months. I've been working to tone up for the last year and am pretty happy with the results (photo below) but I'm now looking to gain some size.

    September%25202011%2520to%2520Oct%252020

    My issue is, I'm vegetarian, and I that isn't going to change any time soon, so I'm worried I'm not getting the right sorts of nutrients to do this as efficiently as possible. I have, however, gained 5lbs in the past 2.5 weeks through a combination of weights, high intensity cardio and almost doubling my average protein and calorie intake.

    I've also started taking creatine supplements, as I've read that the effects are dramatically more noticeable in vegetarians. I've seen some improvements and am happy to be an extra 5lbs but was wondering if there are any nutritionists or successfully stacked vegetarians to give me a few tips to keep me motivated?

    Thanks guys,

    (and nice to meet you all - this is my first post!)

    R
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Nov 09, 2012 5:17 PM GMT
    by the right nutrients you mean?
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    Nov 09, 2012 6:40 PM GMT
    My trainer once asked me if I thought it was fair to punish my body for my political beliefs... I have neuropathy probably caused by vitamin b deficiency ( not a good idea to be a vegetarian at a young age ,growing a body and doing physical labor) . Paleo diet seems to be repairing the damage and is the proper diet for an active male.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Nov 09, 2012 7:05 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidMy trainer once asked me if I thought it was fair to punish my body for my political beliefs... I have neuropathy probably caused by vitamin b deficiency ( not a good idea to be a vegetarian at a young age ,growing a body and doing physical labor) . Paleo diet seems to be repairing the damage and is the proper diet for an active male.


    rather, if you had vitamin b deficiency (which i take to be b12), i say it's not fair to punish vegetarians as whole for you being foolish enough to be a vegetarian who didn't eat well. similarly, anyone who thinks the paleo diet itself is reparative for neuropathy or being the appropriate diet for active males should hold back on giving advice. the great laugh of the paleo diet is that much of it is based on aggrandized ideas of what our ancestors ate. not only are the foods you're eating not equivalent to the foods your ancestors ate in terms of their cultivation, but also it's a false view to assume hunters and gathers all consumed the same foods. what you eat isn't what would have been available in say south america. from an anthropological view, the paleo diet is rather hilarious. and this isn't to say that the foods advocated in the diet are bad. yes, lean meats, fruits, vegetables, nuts, and roots are great while avoiding sugars, processed foods, etc. but to say that is "paleo" is wrong. and to say a diet that includes legumes, dairy, and whole wheat is bad is also found to be nutritionally false as paleo diets combined with healthy portions of those previously mentioned food staples were found to be healthier than regular paleo diets. finally, if you really want to go paleo, then you should know your ancestors were vegetarians who also ate a lot of insects. i hear cockroach larva is great for neuropathy.

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    Nov 09, 2012 7:08 PM GMT
    siouxxuois saidHey all!

    Not 100% sure this is the right location for this thread so please tell me if there's somewhere more appropriate. I'm looking for some advice on packing on some muscle over the next few months. I've been working to tone up for the last year and am pretty happy with the results (photo below) but I'm now looking to gain some size.

    September%25202011%2520to%2520Oct%252020

    My issue is, I'm vegetarian, and I that isn't going to change any time soon, so I'm worried I'm not getting the right sorts of nutrients to do this as efficiently as possible. I have, however, gained 5lbs in the past 2.5 weeks through a combination of weights, high intensity cardio and almost doubling my average protein and calorie intake.

    I've also started taking creatine supplements, as I've read that the effects are dramatically more noticeable in vegetarians. I've seen some improvements and am happy to be an extra 5lbs but was wondering if there are any nutritionists or successfully stacked vegetarians to give me a few tips to keep me motivated?

    Thanks guys,

    (and nice to meet you all - this is my first post!)

    R


    I will respond later. I have a client in an hour, and I have to shower and shave. Or you can just PM me, and we can skype.
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    Nov 09, 2012 7:14 PM GMT
    Take a daily multivitamin if you're concerned about nutrient intake.
    You look like you've made some good progress, keep it up!
  • metta

    Posts: 39159

    Nov 09, 2012 7:48 PM GMT
    http://www.veganbodybuilding.com

    Total Body-Mass Routine
    http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=article_total_bodymass



    Mass-Building Nutrition Plan
    http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=article_massbuilding
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    Nov 09, 2012 8:42 PM GMT
    Bodybuilding as a vegetarian is basically the same as bodybuilding as a non-vegetarian. The only difference is that you have to get you have to get your protein from sources that don't include meat. That can be challenging. I actually stopped being a vegetarian today because my stomach couldn't handle lactose and protein shakes and I really don't feel like eating a bunch of soy and egg whites. It can be done if your stomach can handle it but mine couldn't.
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    Nov 09, 2012 8:49 PM GMT
    erm... im vegetarian, and have been so since i was four...

    i get protein mainly from cottage cheese, pulses and my post workout whey protein shake. its all good. sometimes i'll throw a bit of soya in there.
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    Nov 09, 2012 10:34 PM GMT
    Try using a diet tracker program like choosemyplate.gov. It will evaluate the quality of your diet. Their protein allocation is a bit low for bodybuilding though, so instead, use about 1.5g/kg per day for protein. So 170/2.2 = 77.3 kg *1.5= 116g/protein per day. Unfortunately their database for foods SUCKS so you have to find the closest thing to what you eat. Myfitnesspal.com has a better food database but it lets you play with your macronutrient distribution beyond acceptable ranges for health according to the research. It also doesn't look at micronutrient content such as vitamin/mineral intake and is a poor assessment tool for quality of diet. For best results, use choosemyplate.gov periodically to get the distribution of your food into food groups down, but then play with myfitnesspal to use regularly to just watch your quantity of food intake.

    You were not specific with what type of vegetarian you are. Are you completely vegan, ie no animal products at all? Are you lacto-vegetarian, pescatarian, lacto-ovo-vegetarian?

    It comes down to tracking what you are eating, adjusting the quantity to a positive calorie balance (say 500 more than you are eating now), and ensuring you are eating the proper amount of protein adjusted for bioavailability. Generally speaking, if you eat soy, you only need to eat 10% more protein than you would if you were carnivorous. If you eat beans, you may have to eat 30% more protein (because the PDCAAS score is about 0.7 last I checked). Just by eating 30% more beans you would also increase your caloric intake from that alone, which may be enough to gain weight.

    That said, at 5'10" 170, you are already at a muscular build, so consider the psychological need to gain weight at this point anyway as a goal.

    Next year I will be starting a business where I will be doing consultations on line for pay so you have to do less work on your own. For now, enjoy the free professional advice ;)
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    Nov 10, 2012 3:57 AM GMT
    Thanks guys! Very helpful.

    Alpha, I totally understand that adding meat to my diet would make things a lot easier, but that's not the way I work unfortunately. I mentioned being veg at the start of the thread I guess because it's the only thing which has to remain the same...

    Calibro, thanks for that. icon_smile.gif Another point: average life span of paleo men was less than half it is now. I plan on seeing my 90s - vegetarian or not!

    And Bluey... So thorough! Thanks! I am lacto-ovo which means I can eat plenty of eggs and dairy but no fish or meat. This makes things a lot easier I guess. I eat plenty of soy, tofu, tvp and seitan along with beans, pulses and nuts. I have been paying close attention to my protein intake, which might explain my development so far.
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    Nov 10, 2012 4:45 PM GMT
    calibro said
    Alpha13 saidMy trainer once asked me if I thought it was fair to punish my body for my political beliefs... I have neuropathy probably caused by vitamin b deficiency ( not a good idea to be a vegetarian at a young age ,growing a body and doing physical labor) . Paleo diet seems to be repairing the damage and is the proper diet for an active male.


    rather, if you had vitamin b deficiency (which i take to be b12), i say it's not fair to punish vegetarians as whole for you being foolish enough to be a vegetarian who didn't eat well. similarly, anyone who thinks the paleo diet itself is reparative for neuropathy or being the appropriate diet for active males should hold back on giving advice. the great laugh of the paleo diet is that much of it is based on aggrandized ideas of what our ancestors ate. not only are the foods you're eating not equivalent to the foods your ancestors ate in terms of their cultivation, but also it's a false view to assume hunters and gathers all consumed the same foods. what you eat isn't what would have been available in say south america. from an anthropological view, the paleo diet is rather hilarious. and this isn't to say that the foods advocated in the diet are bad. yes, lean meats, fruits, vegetables, nuts, and roots are great while avoiding sugars, processed foods, etc. but to say that is "paleo" is wrong. and to say a diet that includes legumes, dairy, and whole wheat is bad is also found to be nutritionally false as paleo diets combined with healthy portions of those previously mentioned food staples were found to be healthier than regular paleo diets. finally, if you really want to go paleo, then you should know your

    ancestors were vegetarians who also ate a lot of insects. i hear cockroach larva is great for neuropathy

    Your thoughts are speculative opinions. And you seem to think your thoughts are hilarious. I agree. Read some really boring bio chemisty papers on Paleo diet if you want to stop laughing at yourself.

    I am a scientist so I actively experiment with the Paleo diet. I dont "believe" any theories or opinions unless they stand up to empirical method. I take records of saliva and urine acidity as indication of metabolic processes, I test my fat top muscle ratio after trying different aspects of Paleo diet. In 3 years I can't find any holes in it . I ve even made an unique discovery and will publish it as soon as I gather more data from more test subjects. But for the unscientific I forward the suggestion made in "The Paleo Solution" try it for 30 days.

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    Nov 10, 2012 5:12 PM GMT
    Alpha13try it for 30 days


    tumblr_mcosck3evD1rvjd4y.gif

    (Sorry Alpha.... had to be done)
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    Nov 10, 2012 5:29 PM GMT
    Alpha13 said
    Your thoughts are speculative opinions. And you seem to think your thoughts are hilarious. I agree. Read some really boring bio chemisty papers on Paleo diet if you want to stop laughing at yourself.


    Isn't your self diagnoses of having a vitamin B deficiency entirely speculative?You pretty much acknowledge that but use it as the bases for handing out nutritional advice.

    Alpha13 said
    I am a scientist so I actively experiment with the Paleo diet. I dont "believe" any theories or opinions unless they stand up to empirical method.


    By definition a theory has stood up to a considerable amount of scrutiny and it is derived via the empirical method. I think you meant hypothesis and opinion.

    Alpha13 said
    I take records of saliva and urine acidity as indication of metabolic processes, I test my fat top muscle ratio after trying different aspects of Paleo diet. In 3 years I can't find any holes in it . I ve even made an unique discovery and will publish it as soon as I gather more data from more test subjects. But for the unscientific I forward the suggestion made in "The Paleo Solution" try it for 30 days.


    You are basing all of this on a sample size of one and data you have collected but won't divulge for review?

    Sorry, you may be a scientist by education, but you seem to have stayed from the path.

  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Nov 10, 2012 5:29 PM GMT
    Alpha13 said
    calibro said
    Alpha13 saidMy trainer once asked me if I thought it was fair to punish my body for my political beliefs... I have neuropathy probably caused by vitamin b deficiency ( not a good idea to be a vegetarian at a young age ,growing a body and doing physical labor) . Paleo diet seems to be repairing the damage and is the proper diet for an active male.


    rather, if you had vitamin b deficiency (which i take to be b12), i say it's not fair to punish vegetarians as whole for you being foolish enough to be a vegetarian who didn't eat well. similarly, anyone who thinks the paleo diet itself is reparative for neuropathy or being the appropriate diet for active males should hold back on giving advice. the great laugh of the paleo diet is that much of it is based on aggrandized ideas of what our ancestors ate. not only are the foods you're eating not equivalent to the foods your ancestors ate in terms of their cultivation, but also it's a false view to assume hunters and gathers all consumed the same foods. what you eat isn't what would have been available in say south america. from an anthropological view, the paleo diet is rather hilarious. and this isn't to say that the foods advocated in the diet are bad. yes, lean meats, fruits, vegetables, nuts, and roots are great while avoiding sugars, processed foods, etc. but to say that is "paleo" is wrong. and to say a diet that includes legumes, dairy, and whole wheat is bad is also found to be nutritionally false as paleo diets combined with healthy portions of those previously mentioned food staples were found to be healthier than regular paleo diets. finally, if you really want to go paleo, then you should know your

    ancestors were vegetarians who also ate a lot of insects. i hear cockroach larva is great for neuropathy

    Your thoughts are speculative opinions. And you seem to think your thoughts are hilarious. I agree. Read some really boring bio chemisty papers on Paleo diet if you want to stop laughing at yourself.

    I am a scientist so I actively experiment with the Paleo diet. I dont "believe" any theories or opinions unless they stand up to empirical method. I take records of saliva and urine acidity as indication of metabolic processes, I test my fat top muscle ratio after trying different aspects of Paleo diet. In 3 years I can't find any holes in it . I ve even made an unique discovery and will publish it as soon as I gather more data from more test subjects. But for the unscientific I forward the suggestion made in "The Paleo Solution" try it for 30 days.



    http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/paleo-diet
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-katz-md/paleo-diet_b_889349.html
    http://greatist.com/health/debunking-diets-paleo-facts/
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/10/27/141666659/the-paleo-diet-not-the-way-to-a-healthy-future
    Eaton, S.B.; Eaton III, S.B. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Apr1997, Vol. 51 Issue 4, p207. 10p. 6

    please provide your studies that support that a paleo diet is healthy. overall, most nutritionist agree that the fundamentals of the paleo diet are good for health, but, one, there's nothing unique to them being "paleo" as opposed to a mediterranean diet and, two, the diet's flaws lie in its restrictions of legumes, whole grains, and dairy. further, it seems to be unanimous consensus that the diet is predicated upon unfounded claims from an anthropological view. unless you're consuming plants that have never been agriculturally manipulated, you're consuming wild insects and reptiles, and you're eating wild/non-domesticated animals, including their ligaments, offal, organs, etc., you're not actually eating what your ancestors ate.

    rather, you're eating a select grouping of foods that modern man has changed and cultivated. you do know wild carrots are actually small and purple and that the cultivar we eat today was selectively bred? the same logic holds true for virtually every plant and animal you eat. don't fool yourself into thinking you're reverting into some untapped nutrition. i assure you that your diet is not only modern, but also it's incredibly western.

    furthermore, if you're a scientist, then you'd know that nothing you're describing is empirically related to the paleo diet as nothing that you're consuming (or not consuming) has anything limited to the diet. for instance, if you really did have vitamin b12 induced neuopathy, paleo wouldn't have fixed that any more than the atkins diet would have. the deficiency would be fixed via the ingestion of meat, not the paleo diet. no self-respecting scientist would make the claim that the diet did anything. rather, you'd have to prove that the removal of sugar, salts, grains, dairy, and legumes as a whole resulted in your outcomes. and as any scientist with even a hint of physiology knows, that must be evaluated in a study set with a control with many participants. the fact that you're even attempting to allude that your "study" will be published is so hilarious because it flies in the face of peer-review. "publishing" your study as an e-book or in your church's newsletter doesn't count.

    finally, you do realize your bit about saliva and urine means nothing? one, saliva and urine aren't the most accurate gauges of alkalinity in the body. two, both presences vary, especially urine, based on a number of factors, which include diet, health, etc. to say you have highly acidic urine might mean you're predisposed to kidney stones to you're simply not drinking enough water that day. it could also be a respiratory infection. alone, acidic urine or saliva means nothing and no direct correlations to metabolism can be made. also, your muscle to fat ratio, again, has nothing to do directly with you eating paleo. you'd have to prove it with a control and account for many factors, the biggest being genetics.

    your understanding of "science" is so full of shit it's not even funny. it's sad.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 10, 2012 5:34 PM GMT
    Wow! You have already done an amazing job. Nice.icon_wink.gif
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    Nov 10, 2012 5:41 PM GMT
    Ohh on topic.
    Good job siouxxuois for the progress!

    I would used metta8's links are pretty helpful and the forums at vegan bodybuilding might be more helpful than here even if you are lacto-ovo.
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    Nov 10, 2012 8:03 PM GMT
    Thanks Gingerhead.

    However, Ovo Lacto means I DO eat eggs and dairy (lots of em! icon_biggrin.gif) so my options are a little more open than the standard vegan's. Still, would be really interested to see the results of a vegan bodybuilder.

    And thanks MakinMyWay. It's actually been a very fun process!
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    Nov 10, 2012 8:24 PM GMT
    siouxxuois saidThanks Gingerhead.

    However, Ovo Lacto means I DO eat eggs and dairy (lots of em! icon_biggrin.gif) so my options are a little more open than the standard vegan's. Still, would be really interested to see the results of a vegan bodybuilder.

    And thanks MakinMyWay. It's actually been a very fun process!


    I am aware of what it means, that is why I tagged on the "even though". Part of muscle gain is diet part is workout. The articles there cover both and by virtue of being applicable to vegans would be applicable to vegetarians. In addition the forums there have plenty of non-vegan vegetarians. What is lacking are people who seem to have an axe to grind with vegans and vegetarians.
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    Nov 11, 2012 1:37 PM GMT


    By definition a theory has stood up to a considerable amount of scrutiny and it is derived via the empirical method. I think you meant hypothesis and opinion.

    Alpha13 saidore test subjectAlpha13 said
    Your thoughts are speculative opinions. And you seem to think your thoughts are hilarious. I agree. Read some really boring bio chemisty papers on Paleo diet if you want to stop laughing at yourself.


    Isn't your self diagnoses of having a vitamin B deficiency entirely speculative?You pretty much acknowledge that but use it as the bases for handing out nutritional advice.

    Alpha13 said
    I am a scientist so I actively experiment with the Paleo diet. I dont "believe" any theories or opinions unless they stand up to empirical method.


    By definition a theory has stood up to a considerable amount of scrutiny and it is derived via the empirical method. I think you meant hypothesis and opinion.

    Alpha13 saids. But for Alpha13 said
    Your thoughts are speculative opinions. And you seem to think your thoughts are hilarious. I agree. Read some really boring bio chemisty papers on Paleo diet if you want to stop laughing at yourself.

    I forward the suggestion made in "The Paleo Solution" try it for 30 days.





    You are basing all of this on a sample size of one and data you have collected but won't divulge for review?

    Sorry, you may be a scientist by education, but you seem to have stayed from





    Isn't your self diagnoses of having a vitamin B deficiency entirely speculative?You pretty much acknowledge that but use it as the bases for handing out nutritional advice.

    Alpha13 said
    I am a scientist so I actively experiment with the Paleo diet. I dont "believe" any theories or opinions unless they stand up to empirical method.


    By definition a theory has stood up to a considerable amount of scrutiny and it is derived via the empirical method. I think you meant hypothesis and opinion.

    <




    As I stated science is the application of the empirical method to gain understand about an issue. You are predisposed to pseudo science which gathers data to validate opinions and speculations. Unfortunately that is how research funding works. A good example of this pseudo science was 40 years and countless studies that wanted to show dietary fat was bad even to the point as to "prove" that human milk was too fatty for a baby's health. Just what infant formula companies needed. It's just amazing how prejudice trumps everything. Another example was the need to find a virus behind Legionairres disease. That prejudice prevented "science" from finding the real cause for 5 years.

    Most hostility here is foscused around the word Paleo. What cave men ate is not the issue. Paleo is just an analogy to describe the observation people are making. It's like trying to understand electricity through the analogy of water in a hose. The hostility is an indication that predjudice not science is a work here. Ben Franklin would not have got all negative but would have immediately set up his own experoments. In the "The Paleo Soltion" the author a biochemist dares the reader to forget the biochemistry and try non man made food for 30 days. And when the shoulder surgery you are scheduled for is cancelled, at a pre- op appointment because the Doctor cant find anything wrong, maybe you will get it .
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    Nov 11, 2012 2:09 PM GMT
    Alpha13 said

    By definition a theory has stood up to a considerable amount of scrutiny and it is derived via the empirical method. I think you meant hypothesis and opinion.

    Alpha13 saidore test subjectAlpha13 said
    Your thoughts are speculative opinions. And you seem to think your thoughts are hilarious. I agree. Read some really boring bio chemisty papers on Paleo diet if you want to stop laughing at yourself.


    Isn't your self diagnoses of having a vitamin B deficiency entirely speculative?You pretty much acknowledge that but use it as the bases for handing out nutritional advice.

    Alpha13 said
    I am a scientist so I actively experiment with the Paleo diet. I dont "believe" any theories or opinions unless they stand up to empirical method.


    By definition a theory has stood up to a considerable amount of scrutiny and it is derived via the empirical method. I think you meant hypothesis and opinion.

    Alpha13 saids. But for Alpha13 said
    Your thoughts are speculative opinions. And you seem to think your thoughts are hilarious. I agree. Read some really boring bio chemisty papers on Paleo diet if you want to stop laughing at yourself.

    I forward the suggestion made in "The Paleo Solution" try it for 30 days.





    You are basing all of this on a sample size of one and data you have collected but won't divulge for review?

    Sorry, you may be a scientist by education, but you seem to have stayed from





    Isn't your self diagnoses of having a vitamin B deficiency entirely speculative?You pretty much acknowledge that but use it as the bases for handing out nutritional advice.

    Alpha13 said
    I am a scientist so I actively experiment with the Paleo diet. I dont "believe" any theories or opinions unless they stand up to empirical method.


    By definition a theory has stood up to a considerable amount of scrutiny and it is derived via the empirical method. I think you meant hypothesis and opinion.

    <




    As I stated science is the application of the empirical method to gain understand about an issue. You are predisposed to pseudo science which gathers data to validate opinions and speculations. Unfortunately that is how research funding works. A good example of this pseudo science was 40 years and countless studies that wanted to show dietary fat was bad even to the point as to "prove" that human milk was too fatty for a baby's health. Just what infant formula companies needed. It's just amazing how prejudice trumps everything. Another example was the need to find a virus behind Legionairres disease. That prejudice prevented "science" from finding the real cause for 5 years.

    Most hostility here is foscused around the word Paleo. What cave men ate is not the issue. Paleo is just an analogy to describe the observation people are making. It's like trying to understand electricity through the analogy of water in a hose. The hostility is an indication that predjudice not science is a work here. Ben Franklin would not have got all negative but would have immediately set up his own experoments. In the "The Paleo Soltion" the author a biochemist dares the reader to forget the biochemistry and try non man made food for 30 days. And when the shoulder surgery you are scheduled for is cancelled, at a pre- op appointment because the Doctor cant find anything wrong, maybe you will get it .


    I would love to see you make the argument that I am "predisposed to pseudo science" or that I have shown hostility to the Paleo diet based on what I said above. I didn't comment one way or another another on Paleo diets, in fact all I did was comment on your lack of understanding of basic scientific terminology like "theory" and your glaring lack of understanding of the scientific process. You didn't respond to any of those things and just choose to keep blathering on about your diet. Given all of this I am guessing you are just regurgitating what you read someone and have no actual eduction in any of the sciences.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Nov 11, 2012 2:24 PM GMT
    Alpha13 said

    As I stated science is the application of the empirical method to gain understand about an issue. You are predisposed to pseudo science which gathers data to validate opinions and speculations. Unfortunately that is how research funding works. A good example of this pseudo science was 40 years and countless studies that wanted to show dietary fat was bad even to the point as to "prove" that human milk was too fatty for a baby's health. Just what infant formula companies needed. It's just amazing how prejudice trumps everything. Another example was the need to find a virus behind Legionairres disease. That prejudice prevented "science" from finding the real cause for 5 years.

    Most hostility here is foscused around the word Paleo. What cave men ate is not the issue. Paleo is just an analogy to describe the observation people are making. It's like trying to understand electricity through the analogy of water in a hose. The hostility is an indication that predjudice not science is a work here. Ben Franklin would not have got all negative but would have immediately set up his own experoments. In the "The Paleo Soltion" the author a biochemist dares the reader to forget the biochemistry and try non man made food for 30 days. And when the shoulder surgery you are scheduled for is cancelled, at a pre- op appointment because the Doctor cant find anything wrong, maybe you will get it .


    do you honestly think you're convincing anyone with a shred of understanding of logic that you're a trained scientist? you're not even engaging the argument. you're guilty of creating a straw man fallacy. instead of actually engaging the points that your "experiment" is fundamentally flawed because it has no control and is only applied to yourself, which means there's no way to standardize the results nor contextualize them, you're trying to argue that scientific studies as a whole are faulty because of funding based on a vague case you're not specifically referencing? you can change the topic all you want, but that doesn't mean the original argument of what you're doing has no scientific basis is going away.

    second, your "points" about pseudo-science aren't even true. when legionnaires disease was discovered, no one knew what it was, and it was hypothesized that it was a swine flu. this happened in july of 1976. in january of 1977 the bacterium responsible for it was uncovered. one, that completely refutes your claim of five years of shady science funding, and, two, that effectively illustrates how epidemiology, a science, worked fast to uncover the truth using science.

    and you're still not understanding the point that the food you're eating under the paleo diet is still "man-made." it's all been processed through centuries of selective breeding and cultivation. it's genetically modified. there's nothing "wild" about the modern, western diet. and if you honestly think that your diet, a diet that has nothing indicative to it that other diets don't, magically fixed your shoulder, then you're even more ludicrous than your attempts to pretend to be a scientist when you've misspelled words that include "publish," "experiments," and "solution." i can see how someone who isn't a scientist would not be very familiar with using those words.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Nov 11, 2012 2:29 PM GMT
    The_Gingerhead_Man said
    Alpha13 said

    gibberish from crazy man who dressed up as slutty madame curie for halloween


    Given all of this I am guessing you are just regurgitating what you read someone and have no actual eduction in any of the sciences.


    winning
  • FireDoor211

    Posts: 1030

    Nov 11, 2012 2:30 PM GMT
    I think you look great, unless you're feeling weak or ill I wouldn't worry too much about your diet. Vitamin supplements are almost essential to the vegetarian diet (it should be for any diet really), so i would make sure you had plenty of folic acid, NIacin, and vitamin D.

    Being a vegetarian myself I eat alot of seitan, which is made of high protein wheat gluten. I don't have any issues with wheat gluten but apparently alot of people do. Eating plenty of grains is key to any active vegetarians diet, so eat plenty of rice, barley (high in protein low in carbs), oats and any other grains you can get your hands on.
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    Nov 11, 2012 2:41 PM GMT
    calibro said
    The_Gingerhead_Man said
    Alpha13 said

    gibberish from crazy man who dressed up as slutty madame curie for halloween


    Given all of this I am guessing you are just regurgitating what you read someone and have no actual eduction in any of the sciences.


    winning


    His understanding of what a theory is kind of gives me hope that he feels the same way about the theory of gravity and they might just float the fuck away.