Natural/Organics and Shelf Lives

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2012 4:07 AM GMT
    I've noticed something interesting while shopping. When buying certain perishables such as Milk dairy and bread I've found that the "natural" or "organic" offerings often outlast the cheaper generic brands. For example, I drink my coffee with half-and-half and have noticed that Kleinpeter (a local dairy) and Horizon keep much longer than their generic store-brand alternatives, sometimes by more than a week. I also buy "Nature's Own" brand bread and have kept loaves in their package in my cabinets for weeks after their "use-by" date without ANY mold growth or staling. I'm I nuts or is there something about these more expensive alternatives that makes them keep longer?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2012 4:09 AM GMT
    Noos Flash......latest studies show that Organic doesn't do any better for you or against you than 'non' organic.....another fucking hype brought to you by the future criminals at Wall street.........and dead dates???? don' get me gawin on dat.....
  • tturner2099

    Posts: 108

    Nov 15, 2012 4:11 AM GMT
    Organic milk lasts longer because producers use a different process to preserve it. The organic milk is heated to 280 degrees for two to four seconds, killing any bacteria in it.

    As for bread? Beats me!
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    Nov 15, 2012 4:18 AM GMT
    tturner2099 saidOrganic milk lasts longer because producers use a different process to preserve it. The organic milk is heated to 280 degrees for two to four seconds, killing any bacteria in it.

    As for bread? Beats me!


    lucky bread
  • Nico3687

    Posts: 108

    Nov 15, 2012 4:39 AM GMT
    Keith51 saidNoos Flash......latest studies show that Organic doesn't do any better for you or against you than 'non' organic.....another fucking hype brought to you by the future criminals at Wall street.........and dead dates???? don' get me gawin on dat.....


    ^This is NOT TRUE AT ALL.

    The study you're referencing is about vitamin content. The study does NOT contemplate the consumption of chemical [synthetic] pesticide residue (known endocrine disruptors), which are inherently on non-organic foods. Organic is also much better for the environment.

    Genetically engineered foods can never be "Organic." The new wave of genetically engineered foods contain BT (a "natural pesticide") embedded in the DNA. Wanna consume that? I sure as hell don't.


    Have you heard of rBGH? Google "rBGH" and "IGF-1" if you have not. It's banned from organic milk.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2012 4:43 AM GMT
    Dunno - the more expensive earth-muffin sorts of bread often have a lot more oils from seeds and such that would tend to preserve them. Don't know if it's a measurable difference.

    And stuff that's local probably has at least a week advantage over stuff that's been shipped in from Mexico or Chile or Timbuktu. *



    *All things being equal. A lot of mom&pop producers don't have the equipment to properly chill and pack produce, for example, so stuff from far away may last longer than theirs.
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    Nov 15, 2012 4:49 AM GMT
    Nico3687 said
    Keith51 saidNoos Flash......latest studies show that Organic doesn't do any better for you or against you than 'non' organic.....another fucking hype brought to you by the future criminals at Wall street.........and dead dates???? don' get me gawin on dat.....


    ^This is NOT TRUE AT ALL.

    The study you're referencing is about vitamin content. The study does NOT contemplate the consumption of chemical [synthetic] pesticide residue (known endocrine disruptors), which are inherently on non-organic foods. Organic is also much better for the environment.

    Genetically engineered foods can never be "Organic." The new wave of genetically engineered foods contain BT (a "natural pesticide") embedded in the DNA. Wanna consume that? I sure as hell don't.


    Have you heard of rBGH? Google "rBGH" and "IGF-1" if you have not. It's banned from organic milk.


    Thank you for your misguided input.......do more research on the latest findings....then tell them they're 'not true at all'.....I grew up in the 50s and we ate every kinda shit put in front of us, from dirt to revellos.....i'll guarantee my immune system is a helluva lot stronger....and tell me about 'organic' grapes....none sprayed with chemicals in the wine industry so how do we get 'organic' ? have i opened a pissing match??
  • Nico3687

    Posts: 108

    Nov 15, 2012 5:09 AM GMT
    Keith51 said

    Thank you for your misguided input.......do more research on the latest findings....then tell them they're 'not true at all'.....I grew up in the 50s and we ate every kinda shit put in front of us, from dirt to revellos.....i'll guarantee my immune system is a helluva lot stronger....and tell me about 'organic' grapes....none sprayed with chemicals in the wine industry so how do we get 'organic' ? have i opened a pissing match??


    Wow an attack with no info other than your personal experience. Thanks for the wisdom.
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Nov 15, 2012 5:13 AM GMT
    tturner2099 saidOrganic milk lasts longer because producers use a different process to preserve it. The organic milk is heated to 280 degrees for two to four seconds, killing any bacteria in it.

    As for bread? Beats me!


    It can't be heated that high, as that's above boiling... I'm pretty sure it's just 180. Still hot enough o kill bacteria. It's called pasteurization. And isn't all milk, organic or not, pasteurized?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2012 5:14 AM GMT
    Dairy and grain products are inflammatory, which increase visceral fat (adipose tissue around the internal organs). Why would you want to do that shit anyway (other than in extreme moderation)?
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Nov 15, 2012 5:16 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidDairy and grain products are inflammatory, which increase visceral fat (adipose tissue around the internal organs). Why would you want to do that shit anyway (other than in extreme moderation)?


    Everything has negatives, as well as positives. It's all personal pros and cons.
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    Nov 15, 2012 5:17 AM GMT
    Medjai said
    paulflexes saidDairy and grain products are inflammatory, which increase visceral fat (adipose tissue around the internal organs). Why would you want to do that shit anyway (other than in extreme moderation)?


    Everything has negatives, as well as positives. It's all personal pros and cons.
    If there's an ultimate fitness goal involved (defined abs/physique) then it's more about the positives than negatives, and nothing to do with personal pros and cons. icon_wink.gif
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    Nov 15, 2012 5:19 AM GMT
    Keith51 saidI grew up in the 50s and we ate every kinda shit put in front of us, from dirt to revellos.....


    Not GMO's though.
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Nov 15, 2012 5:19 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    Medjai said
    paulflexes saidDairy and grain products are inflammatory, which increase visceral fat (adipose tissue around the internal organs). Why would you want to do that shit anyway (other than in extreme moderation)?


    Everything has negatives, as well as positives. It's all personal pros and cons.
    If there's an ultimate fitness goal involved (defined abs/physique) then it's more about the positives than negatives, and nothing to do with personal pros and cons. icon_wink.gif


    Both dairy and grains can, and have successfully, found a place in a supportive fitness diet. We didn't invent the sculpted physique. It's been achieved through many paths, some of which included dairy and grains.
  • Nico3687

    Posts: 108

    Nov 15, 2012 5:22 AM GMT
    Ariodante said
    Keith51 saidI grew up in the 50s and we ate every kinda shit put in front of us, from dirt to revellos.....


    Not GMO's though.


    Or rBGH, or any of the other things that are now in non-organic foods. But he doesn't like facts, so, shhhhhhhhhh
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2012 5:38 AM GMT
    Trust me, organic is the way to go. Don't listen to the fools that say it's pointless spending money on it. It's expensive but it's worth it icon_biggrin.gif
  • camfer

    Posts: 891

    Nov 15, 2012 5:57 AM GMT
    Regarding the shelf life of milk, you probably won't find raw (unpasteurized) milk in any store, so the shelf life depends upon the method of pasteurization and the age of the product you find on the shelf. Milk may be pasteurized or ultra-pasteurized, which differs in the temperature and the duration at that temperature. Ultra pasteurized milk has a longer shelf life. In the US, ultra pasteurized milk is labeled as such. Not so in some other countries. The shelf life of milk has nothing to do with being organic or not. Your local product is probably fresher than the conventional product, and the horizon brand is often ultra pasteurized, although they produce both.

    Regarding temperature of pasteurization, yes ultra pasteurized milk is held at 275F for one second. Ordinary pasteurized milk is held at 161F for at least 15 seconds.

    For bread, your experienced shelf life may well have to do with the speed of the distribution chain. You might be getting fresher product. I would imagine that conventional bread that contains preservatives would last longer than organic/natural bread that does not.
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Nov 15, 2012 6:09 AM GMT
    camfer saidRegarding the shelf life of milk, you probably won't find raw (unpasteurized) milk in any store, so the shelf life depends upon the method of pasteurization and the age of the product you find on the shelf. Milk may be pasteurized or ultra-pasteurized, which differs in the temperature and the duration at that temperature. Ultra pasteurized milk has a longer shelf life. In the US, ultra pasteurized milk is labeled as such. Not so in some other countries. The shelf life of milk has nothing to do with being organic or not. Your local product is probably fresher than the conventional product, and the horizon brand is often ultra pasteurized, although they produce both.

    Regarding temperature of pasteurization, yes ultra pasteurized milk is held at 275F for one second. Ordinary pasteurized milk is held at 161F for at least 15 seconds.

    For bread, your experienced shelf life may well have to do with the speed of the distribution chain. You might be getting fresher product. I would imagine that conventional bread that contains preservatives would last longer than organic/natural bread that does not.


    Ultra pasteurized milk is pressure heated to prevent evaporation, is it not? And how does that not caramelize the sugars?
  • camfer

    Posts: 891

    Nov 15, 2012 6:20 AM GMT
    Medjai said

    Ultra pasteurized milk is pressure heated to prevent evaporation, is it not? And how does that not caramelize the sugars?


    Yes, it occurs under pressure. Sorry I don't know about what happens with the sugars. There are additives in ultrapasteurized milk to deal with the processing, and the FDA does not require listing the additives. With UHT milk you may be getting some guar gum or carageenan to mimic the texture of pasteurized milk.

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    Nov 15, 2012 4:56 PM GMT
    Nico3687 said
    Keith51 said

    Thank you for your misguided input.......do more research on the latest findings....then tell them they're 'not true at all'.....I grew up in the 50s and we ate every kinda shit put in front of us, from dirt to revellos.....i'll guarantee my immune system is a helluva lot stronger....and tell me about 'organic' grapes....none sprayed with chemicals in the wine industry so how do we get 'organic' ? have i opened a pissing match??


    Wow an attack with no info other than your personal experience. Thanks for the wisdom.


    lmfao.......ah youth....

    http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1250668--organic-food-may-not-be-any-better-for-you-study-finds
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2012 5:07 PM GMT
    Keith51 said
    Nico3687 said
    Keith51 said

    Thank you for your misguided input.......do more research on the latest findings....then tell them they're 'not true at all'.....I grew up in the 50s and we ate every kinda shit put in front of us, from dirt to revellos.....i'll guarantee my immune system is a helluva lot stronger....and tell me about 'organic' grapes....none sprayed with chemicals in the wine industry so how do we get 'organic' ? have i opened a pissing match??


    Wow an attack with no info other than your personal experience. Thanks for the wisdom.


    lmfao.......ah youth....

    http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1250668--organic-food-may-not-be-any-better-for-you-study-finds


    Um, the linked story confirms his view that the study was studying vitamin content and not other issues. Also, "old-timer," you convert a link to being active by using the "URL" button above the message box.

    That said, while I grow organic vegetables for my own consumption, when buying at the store I don't bother. Organic is overpriced and I don't really trust that the designation means anything.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2012 5:12 PM GMT
    seriously glad you put 'old timer' in quotes, 'semi old timer'.......and thanks for the instructions in computer whiz......but then thats too much for an 'old timer' to handle.....lmfao
  • Nico3687

    Posts: 108

    Nov 15, 2012 5:13 PM GMT
    Keith51 said

    lmfao.......ah youth....

    http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1250668--organic-food-may-not-be-any-better-for-you-study-finds


    Did you just attempt to disprove my factual statement by supplying a link that confirms it icon_question.gificon_question.gif

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16451864

    http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/hidden-hazards-milk
  • kew1

    Posts: 1595

    Nov 15, 2012 5:30 PM GMT
    camfer said I would imagine that conventional bread that contains preservatives would last longer than organic/natural bread that does not.


    I make my own, shop bought bread lasts about 3 times longer than home-made before it goes stale or moldy .
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    Nov 15, 2012 5:47 PM GMT
    Jesus H. Christ hangin off the cross. Nevermind :