Rise of Irreligion, Fall of Christendom

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2012 8:52 AM GMT
    In the U.S., the rise of irreligion and decline of Christendom looks something like this.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/124793/This-Christmas-78-Americans-Identify-Christian.aspx
    Gallup 200978% of Americans identify with some form of Christian religion, a proportion that has been declining in recent decades. The major reason for this decline has been an increase in the percentage of Americans claiming no religious identity, now at 13% of all adults.


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    http://www.pewforum.org/Unaffiliated/nones-on-the-rise.aspx
    Pew Forum 2012The number of Americans who do not identify with any religion continues to grow at a rapid pace. One-fifth of the U.S. public – and a third of adults under 30 – are religiously unaffiliated today, the highest percentages ever in Pew Research Center polling.
    In the last five years alone, the unaffiliated have increased from just over 15% to just under 20% of all U.S. adults. Their ranks now include more than 13 million self-described atheists and agnostics (nearly 6% of the U.S. public), as well as nearly 33 million people who say they have no particular religious affiliation (14%).


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    Religiosity Worldwide
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  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Nov 15, 2012 9:47 AM GMT
    The Fall of the House of Ushericon_idea.gif
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    Nov 15, 2012 4:33 PM GMT
    It's much less important to me this trend of religious affiliation but more important to me the trend of respect for the belief and lives of others. I couldn't give a flying crap what someone believes in the privacy of their own mind. What I find offensive is all the proselytizing, whether it's the pope or Oprah, same shit as far as I can tell.

    I find particularly disgusting those insisting others live according to their beliefs without concern for the other person's beliefs. The ugliest part of that of course is someone telling us we can't marry because we're not human. Fuck them. I couldn't give a flying fuck that my neighbor thinks my life is a sin but leave that thought in your fucking house. You have no right to make me live by your religion. How would you like it if I stopped you from buying bacon, you asshole. So that's the only type of shit that matters to me. They can pray however the fuck they please. God bless'm.

    So it doesn't tell me much to know the amount of, say, so-called Christian charity in the world, rather what I find more telling would be polls showing trends of religious tolerance for each other. Heaven is not the prior providence of any particular religion. That's not how we get peace on Earth. Seek Nirvana within the spaces between.

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    Nov 15, 2012 6:47 PM GMT
    Hmm according to the above Americans vote rather vote in an atheist president than Mitt Romney icon_razz.gif

    And as I suspected it is the evangelicals who really push others away. People like Rick Santorum who never fail to flaunt his faith and try to impose it on everyone else around him.
  • TheIStrat

    Posts: 777

    Nov 15, 2012 11:53 PM GMT
    They only have themselves to blame
  • roadbikeRob

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    Nov 16, 2012 12:04 AM GMT
    I think that religions decline in the US is long overdue. Every other modern, developed country in the world places very little or no value on religious beliefs. All those countries appear to be freer because religion isn't allowed to influence political decisions and cultural norms. As far as I am concerned, all religious belief is based on a bunch of ancient fairy tales.
  • Rowing_Ant

    Posts: 1504

    Nov 16, 2012 12:22 AM GMT
    Im not sure what the OP is trying to say...

    For a starter Christendom is dead - as Christendom was Europe, not the US....

    Anyhooo

    What's wrong with someone being religiously unaffiliated? Someone can be spiritual and have a belief without having to belong to some organised religion with their creeds, and dogma.

    And those stats are not showing the decline in people being believers, but decline in people supporting aforementioned organised religions, which is something totally differant.

    And what's wrong with someone have no belief at all?

    Faith, belief, is personal, based on experiences. If someone believes in something so be it. If someone doesnt that's fine too. In my congregation we have christians, religious humanists and a few who call themselves atheist-christians because they cannot believe in a God (for whatever reason) but are still drawn to the figure and teaching of Jesus (rather than the mythical Christ).

    I think any "decline" in "traditional religion" is in the most part due to it lagging behind society, stuck in a medieval thought process of women as property almost, not allowing divorce, not allowing choice on family planning, hating on the gays. To stay relevant things have to change, evolve otherwise they stagnate or die. Religions need to throw away the baggage. Heck in the 1840s Revd. Theodore Parker said Christianity had to c hange or die, had to throw off the "transient" of the religion (creeds, dogma, outward shows and formularies) and latch onto the social gospel, to the "permanent" of Christianity, the moral and ethical teaching of Jesus. To have a religion based upon what is believe he said and did rather than about him. His words I believe are still relevant today, and increasingly so. I truly believe there has to be a paradigm shift in religion. It has to catch up to where society is now rather than draw a line in the sand and say "no more"; if it cannot evolve, if it cannot throw off dogma, old-fashioned modes of thought, governance and practice then it has signed it's own death -warrant. The more religions and religious people squabble about whose god is t he best, about whose church is the best, which is the "right way" rale again modern society the more they make themslves irrelevant.

    People change, Are changing. Society is changing. So too is what people believe and how they chose to express it.

    Revd. Ant
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    Nov 16, 2012 12:22 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidEvery other modern, developed country in the world places very little or no value on religious beliefs. All those countries appear to be freer because religion isn't allowed to influence political decisions and cultural norms.


    My future prediction is that organised religion as a whole will decline to irrelevance by the end of this century or the next (Islam and Catholicism being the last major religions with influence due to the large numbers of involved followers and workers in their structure), replaced by newer forms of spirituality.

    I don't think the whole world will turn atheist, but just become more secular and more open-minded about faith and creed. It will be interesting to see developments in the US though.

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    Nov 16, 2012 12:23 AM GMT
    ATC84 said....
    And as I suspected it is the evangelicals who really push others away. People (snip) who never fail to flaunt his faith and try to impose it on everyone else around him.

    QFT

    bigots make religion unattractive
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    Nov 16, 2012 12:26 AM GMT
    That's expected. I wrote a book called Water Bearing Fish dealing with leaving the Age of Pisces (and the effect of Christianity, Jesus, fishermen and fish) for the Age of Aquarius.

    In the mail today, a book I ordered arrived: Jesus, King of Edessa. This king's birth is where we get some elements of the birth story of Jesus, for example, "only begotten son."

    I also wrote a book called The Greatest Bible Study in Historical Accuracy by Steefen. I'm glad to have a more accurate perspective than the Bible's face value. It has taken about 8-1/2 years to get where I am now.

    The journey started with The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine.

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    Nov 16, 2012 12:30 AM GMT
    bhp91126 said
    ATC84 said....
    And as I suspected it is the evangelicals who really push others away. People (snip) who never fail to flaunt his faith and try to impose it on everyone else around him.

    QFT

    bigots make religion unattractive


    Bigots make religion vile.
  • Rowing_Ant

    Posts: 1504

    Nov 16, 2012 12:33 AM GMT
    [quote]

    My future prediction is that organised religion as a whole will decline to irrelevance by the end of this century or the next (Islam and Catholicism being the last major religions with influence due to the large numbers of involved followers and workers in their structure), replaced by newer forms of spirituality.

    I don't think the whole world will turn atheist, but just become more secular and more open-minded about faith and creed. It will be interesting to see developments in the US though.

    [/quote]

    I think that much is already visible. You have people who believe, who are spiritual but not religious. Just look at the growth of more Eastern spirtiaul practices in the West, the growth of more earth-centred Spiritual Practices of just spiritual ecleciticism. Its not a lack of belief is a lack of belief or trust or reliance or need of an organised religion in which to express that spirituality.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14395

    Nov 16, 2012 12:34 AM GMT
    It is all the narrow minded, bible thumping screwballs on the right wing that are speeding up the decline of religion and christianity in general in the US. The conservative takeover of the Roman Catholic Church is also driving some of the nails into religions coffin. Between the corruption and hypocrisy of the Vatican and the fundamentalist lunatics dictating to the American people what to believe and how to believe these developments are pushing more people away from religious faith. I am an agnostic that is gradually drifting towards atheism. I was raised a Roman Catholic but the hypocrisy and corruption has turned me away. The fact that I was forced to go to church by my parents every sunday and holy day of obligation until I reached 18 is another major factor for me abandoning religion.
  • Rowing_Ant

    Posts: 1504

    Nov 16, 2012 12:35 AM GMT
    Got it in one roadbikeRob.
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    Nov 16, 2012 12:36 AM GMT
    Artsy Runner:
    My future prediction is that organised religion as a whole will decline to irrelevance by the end of this century or the next (Islam and Catholicism being the last major religions with influence due to the large numbers of involved followers and workers in their structure), replaced by newer forms of spirituality.

    StephenOABC:
    Organized religion, say, the Protestants do not teach people about chakras, auras, and Astrolgy; therefore, without this substance, they need to see declining numbers.

    While "Jesus" became a magical name of miracles, however powerful, there's more that is required for understanding Life.



    Artsy Runner:
    I don't think the whole world will turn atheist, but just become more secular and more open-minded about faith and creed. It will be interesting to see developments in the US though.

    StephenOABC:
    Aquarius IS more secular than Pisces.

    In the second edition of my book, Insights on the Exodus, King David, and Jesus by Steefen, readers realize that if you blindly turn away from Christianity without knowing what I and others have discovered about the Bible, you're going to miss growing from the Age of Aries to the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius properly.

    Yes, we age beyond the Age of Pisces (corrected, original was Aquarius) and leave childish things behind; but, a good childhood is a foundation for a good adulthood--humanity's adulthood in the years of the Age of Aquarius.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Nov 16, 2012 12:50 AM GMT
    Religion is the most destructive force on our planet. Get rid of it and we will live in peace.
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    Nov 16, 2012 12:57 AM GMT
    Trollileo said
    theantijock saidWhat I find offensive is all the proselytizing, whether it's the pope or Oprah, same shit as far as I can tell
    I thought you find everything offensive, though.


    Quite the contrary; the world intrigues me. What made you think otherwise?
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    Nov 16, 2012 12:58 AM GMT
    barriehomeboy saidReligion is the most destructive force on our planet. Get rid of it and we will live in peace.


    No. Fervent anti-religious people are as bad as bigoted religious people. Without religion to complain about they would be equally as hostile towards something else.
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    Nov 16, 2012 1:08 AM GMT
    BuddyinNYC said
    barriehomeboy saidReligion is the most destructive force on our planet. Get rid of it and we will live in peace.


    No. Fervent anti-religious people are as bad as bigoted religious people. Without religion to complain about they would be equally as hostile towards something else.


    Exactly! A lot of gay guys ask me why I am gay and a Catholic. I was forced into this religion at birth, but I will choose to remain in it until I die. I see my religion as nothing more than my sexuality or my physical strength - yet another definition of my whole being.

    There will be people in my religion that will detest me for my "choices", but who are they to decide who lives better lives in terms of religion than themselves? And this applies on the other way around too.



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    Nov 16, 2012 1:27 AM GMT
    ATC84 said
    And as I suspected it is the evangelicals who really push others away. People like Rick Santorum who never fail to flaunt his faith and try to impose it on everyone else around him.


    +1, more specifically, Calvinism and Catholicism with the recent scandals within the Catholic church and- from what I've observed- the fundamental core belief of Calvinism (and their sociological consequences), people are beginning to turn away from religion.
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    Nov 16, 2012 11:59 AM GMT
    Rowing_Ant saidIm not sure what the OP is trying to say...

    For a starter Christendom is dead - as Christendom was Europe, not the US....


    my news op is nonargumentive. by christendom, i mean the christian demographic.
    btw, i'm among the religiously unaffiliated.
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    Nov 16, 2012 12:15 PM GMT
    Not surprising at all. I think many people are tired that a minority dictates so much power. If only they all would realize that America was not a Christian Nation.

    One Nation Under God wasn't added until 1954
    In God We Trust on all currency was added in 1956

    Both were added in response to the fear of communism.

    Many of the founding fathers considered themselves Deists.

    Franklin and Jefferson were both Deists.
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    Nov 16, 2012 12:47 PM GMT
    msuNtx saidNot surprising at all. I think many people are tired that a minority dictates so much power. If only they all would realize that America was not a Christian Nation.

    One Nation Under God wasn't added until 1954
    In God We Trust on all currency was added in 1956

    Both were added in response to the fear of communism.

    Many of the founding fathers considered themselves Deists.

    Franklin and Jefferson were both Deists.

    Just looked up Deism. This may actually work for me.
    Deism.com
  • roadbikeRob

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    Nov 17, 2012 3:21 PM GMT
    msuNtx saidNot surprising at all. I think many people are tired that a minority dictates so much power. If only they all would realize that America was not a Christian Nation.

    One Nation Under God wasn't added until 1954
    In God We Trust on all currency was added in 1956

    Both were added in response to the fear of communism.

    Many of the founding fathers considered themselves Deists.

    Franklin and Jefferson were both Deists.
    Good luck trying to convince all the conservative christians that the founding fathers were deists and not christians. But all the right wing propaganda keeps circulating the nonsense that the founding fathers were all christians and that the US was intended to be a christian nation.
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    Nov 17, 2012 3:31 PM GMT
    Bullwinklemoos said
    ATC84 said
    And as I suspected it is the evangelicals who really push others away. People like Rick Santorum who never fail to flaunt his faith and try to impose it on everyone else around him.


    +1, more specifically, Calvinism and Catholicism with the recent scandals within the Catholic church and- from what I've observed- the fundamental core belief of Calvinism (and their sociological consequences), people are beginning to turn away from religion.


    Calvinism hasn't been a mainstream protestant belief in America since before advent of the Darby Study Bible in the 1870s. You ask most Bible-thumpers these days, and they'll tell you Calvin and his teachings are from the pit of hell. There has only recently been a quiet resurgence of "Reformation" theology.