The Rainbow Flag...time to ditch it?

  • chitown_mofo

    Posts: 98

    Sep 08, 2008 12:41 AM GMT
    I'm a little biased here, because I don't care too much for the rainbow. But nonetheless, do gays really need a flag anymore? I'm all for giving props to the gays who came before me and advanced the culture and all, but it's kinda tacky at this point. It served a purpose back in the proverbial day, but now I think its just unnecessary and cheesy. And its really, really, really, umm...GAY!!! Not "guy humping guy" gay, more like "show tunes and drag queens" gay.

    If we need a flag, maybe a new flag with a silhouette of two guys humping? I'd like that alot more than the rainbow. Thats a bumper sticker I'd be willing to put on my car.

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    Sep 08, 2008 1:14 AM GMT
    What about the Lesbians, Bisexuals, Transgender people and Allies?

    The rainbow is a potent symbol because all the colours are represented equally. There is also a subtle connotation about equality of colour, and the synergy of diversity.

    That said, I do like the Equals sign of the HRC.
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:14 AM GMT
    I would take ANYTHING but the rainbow colors. ANYTHING!
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:38 AM GMT
    chitown_mofo saidI'm a little biased here, because I don't care too much for the rainbow. But nonetheless, do gays really need a flag anymore? I'm all for giving props to the gays who came before me and advanced the culture and all, but it's kinda tacky at this point. It served a purpose back in the proverbial day, but now I think its just unnecessary and cheesy. And its really, really, really, umm...GAY!!! Not "guy humping guy" gay, more like "show tunes and drag queens" gay.

    If we need a flag, maybe a new flag with a silhouette of two guys humping? I'd like that alot more than the rainbow. Thats a bumper sticker I'd be willing to put on my car.


    ok, bucky beaver, come up with a serious alternative.
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    Sep 08, 2008 4:32 AM GMT

    What about the segment of the gay population, which is huge that is "drag queens and showtunes gay"? I love both and I love the rainbow flag. Plus, how do you outgrow the need for a community symbol? That is like saying we've outgrown the American Flag or perhaps we can just make a new one of a silhouette of an American Soldier killing something?

    A flag with a clear cut image is useless, but a symbolic image like the rainbow can be interpreted different ways by any person who views it. You look at it and see GAY, which I can't find a problem with, means it's doing its
    job. I look at it and see a rainbow that represents the many facets of the gay community: lesbians, transgender, gay, feminine, masculine, bi, straight acting, gay acting, drag queens, showtunes, horny immature assholes, etc:. Your flag represents one side. I for one, do not want to be represented by a flag that paints me only as a guy humper: there is so much more to me than that; I am a variable rainbow of mutli facets!

    Furthermore, these silhouettes, would they have short cropped hair like African Americans, or long hair emphasizing Caucasion attributes? Would they be tall and lanky or short and buff....could they be fat? See what I mean, your flag can only represent a very small part of a huge, diverse, and colorful community. A community that has made huge strides in the past several years in large part because of PRIDE and because of our symbol. Furthermore, the pioneers of the LBGT community were "GAY". I mean, drag queen and showtunes gay, the kind of people who could not hide under the curtain of social acceptability like you can. People who had to celebrate their differences not hide them. What better way to celebrate such startling apparent features than with a startling apparent symbol?

    Really, it fills me with PRIDE and joy everytime I see it and it fills enemies to my loving who I want with contempt and indifference. Although not all, it is a logical, non offensive symbol. I think it's prominence and the fact that it is so unintimidating serves to soften contempt and indifference from outsiders

    Unfortunately, the gay community has seen an upsurge of gay anti gay men. People who try to cut a swath between themselves and everyone else in their community who doesn't fit their ideal in much the same way society originally treated the entire gay community. I think it's foolish. You can be as masculine and discreet as you want, but you are still gay and what you do is still not fully accepted by large portions of society. By what you do: I mean, love men. The sexual aspect of homosexuality is still very much a taboo in society. Trust me, person, your sexuality is more acceptable in society than your sexual practices.

    It's true that the term gay refers to men who hump men like you, but again, I think its true prominence lies with obviously gay individuals who can't hide in the darkness and don't desire too. They'd rather stand out like a rainbow. They'd rather be respected for their varying abilities and talents. Unlike your suggestion, the rainbow inspires respect and thought. Your flag would just outline what we do in the bedroom, which is noone's business.

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    Sep 08, 2008 4:48 AM GMT
    GuiltyGear, that was really beautiful. Great writing.
  • chitown_mofo

    Posts: 98

    Sep 08, 2008 5:41 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]GuiltyGear said[/cite]

    That is like saying we've outgrown the American Flag or perhaps we can just make a new one of a silhouette of an American Soldier killing something?

    Yes, thats a real good analogy, because being gay is so much like a country. And of course, our heartless American killing machine soldiers...If it wasnt for people sacrificing their lives for this counrty, you wouldn't have the freedom to wave your tacky flag.

    there is so much more to me than that; I am a variable rainbow of mutli facets!

    Yeah, ok. Good luck with that. I'm beginning to see the correlation between the tackiness of the flag and of the people who love it.



    Unfortunately, the gay community has seen an upsurge of gay anti gay men.


    So now I'm anti-gay cuz i think the rainbow flag is cheesy? So I guess if i dont like stereotypical gay things, Im anti-gay?



    I think its true prominence lies with obviously gay individuals who can't hide in the darkness and don't desire too. They'd rather stand out like a rainbow.


    So in addition to being anti-gay, because I dont like a rainbow flag, now Im a closet case who wants to hide who i am?





    The flag is tacky. Period. That's not an anti-gay statement nor does it reflect someone wanting to 'hide in the darkness'. And the fact that you took my proposed humping flag seriously shows you aren't all that sharp. The point is, we're past the point of needing to wave a flag around, especially one as ridiculous as the rainbow.
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    Sep 08, 2008 7:08 AM GMT



    I had an opinion and I stated it, except unlike you, I backed up my opinions with reasons. I exactly told you why I like the flag, why we have the flag, and why we need the flag.

    You just said it's tacky and we don't need it. Why is it tacky? Why don't we need it? And, BACK IN THE DAY? People are still fighting for your rights as a gay man today.

    Community, if you knew what community meant, you'd know, a country is a community and that gays definitely represent a community. Even if it didn't, the American flag represents us as a global super power....people already know that so why do we need it? Because, it inspires people, it represents a past and a future, and it binds us all together. The gay flag does the same thing for the gay community no matter how tacky you think it is.

    Your post above was not necessary, but what I expected, more personal attacks, no real reasons to back your ranting. Your original post wasn't a joke or sarcastic. You said what you meant to say. The only reason you tried to pawn it off as a joke is because of how foolish my post made you look.

    I'm glad you read it and for the record: I never called you anti gay or closeted, but you Original Post and all the anger you displayed towards me, your community, and our tacky flag did that for you. If you reply to this, don't rant. Try to back up your opinions with reasons. Otherwise, you'll only make a bigger fool of yourself.


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    Sep 08, 2008 11:09 AM GMT
    chitown_mofo saidIf we need a flag, maybe a new flag with a silhouette of two guys humping?


    What a fucking small view of what gay is...

    The fact I shove my cock up some guys arse does not make me gay.

    Does the fact that I can fall in love with a man, find his touch to be reassuring, his smell to be comforting, to spend time with him forfilling, does that not go towards making me a gay man?

    Or is it only the fact that I put my cock in some guys arse make me gay?
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    Sep 08, 2008 12:13 PM GMT
    Thanks for the edu-ma-cation everybody... i never really gave the rainbow flag much thought, however when I see the flag on a storefront or some other business, I feel rest-assured.
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    Sep 08, 2008 2:48 PM GMT
    The flag is tacky. Period.

    That is just your taste. And there is no arguing taste. So give that up. Especially since you haven't seriously offered anything to replace it.

    The point is, we're past the point of needing to wave a flag around, especially one as ridiculous as the rainbow.

    How do you substantiate that we are past the point of needing to wave a flag? One of the first thing this country did was make a flag...and we are still using it. And flags are a very common device used by groups.

    As I asked above, what would you suggest in place of the flag?

    So far, you have been long on criticism and short on creativity

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    Sep 08, 2008 2:52 PM GMT
    Well... the rainbow flag offends my artistic sensibilities, (LOL sorry GG). But that said, I don't care if it represents GLBT. It does portray diversity very well and puts out the message that no single 'color' is really 'different'.

    i.e. no matter how 'freaky' you are to other, you'll always know there are other freaks out there fighting for the same things you are.
  • chitown_mofo

    Posts: 98

    Sep 08, 2008 3:07 PM GMT
    Caslon6000 saidThe flag is tacky. Period.

    That is just your taste. And there is no arguing taste. So give that up. Especially since you haven't seriously offered anything to replace it.

    The point is, we're past the point of needing to wave a flag around, especially one as ridiculous as the rainbow.

    How do you substantiate that we are past the point of needing to wave a flag? One of the first thing this country did was make a flag...and we are still using it. And flags are a very common device used by groups.

    As I asked above, what would you suggest in place of the flag?

    So far, you have been long on criticism and short on creativity



    NO REPLACEMENT! THATS MY WHOLE POINT. WE DONT NEED A EFFING FLAG TO BE GAY!!! ITS RIDICULOUS. BEING GAY IS NOT LIKE BEING A COUNTRY!!

    You dont wave a flag because your college educated

    You dont wave a flag because you are an accountant

    You dont wave a flag because you like fishing

    Its a dumb concept. To have a flag to represent that your gay. To have it pasted all over every single establishment that may cater to gays.

    As for being tacky, the dude who said he was a 'multi-faceted rainbow of many colors' and the one who was posting 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow' Lyrics only support my point.
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:23 PM GMT
    I have always thought the flag stood for unity. Even for the parts of our community that I may not understand or relate to, (transgender, drag, lesbianism). That doesn't mean that I do not like those other facets of our community. It's just not my bag. They are still part of our total, "alternative lifestyle" though. Thus are shown respect and accecpt-ive-ism, (is that a word) by our flag.
    Edit here...
    Oh yea...

    "You dont wave a flag because your college educated" What are you high or something? How many college or professional sport team flags have you seen on cars or homes??? DUH!

    "You dont wave a flag because you are an accountant" Ok, now I don't think I've seen one of these, butt I don't know many accountants.icon_lol.gif

    "You dont wave a flag because you like fishing" I'd have to argue this one also, cause I work w/ALOT of fisherman and have seen a few w/hooks on them and some silly comment about "Fisherman have better bait".
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:26 PM GMT
    chitown_mofo said
    NO REPLACEMENT! THATS MY WHOLE POINT. WE DONT NEED A EFFING FLAG TO BE GAY!!! ITS RIDICULOUS. BEING GAY IS NOT LIKE BEING A COUNTRY!!

    You dont wave a flag because your college educated

    People do wear rings to show that they are a graduate. It isnt a flag but it is an identification.

    You dont wave a flag because you are an accountant

    You dont wave a flag because you like fishing

    Its a dumb concept. To have a flag to represent that your gay. To have it pasted all over every single establishment that may cater to gays.

    As for being tacky, the dude who said he was a 'multi-faceted rainbow of many colors' and the one who was posting 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow' Lyrics only support my point.

    We dont get discriminated against because of the above examples. So your analogies are bogus. We have been forced to coalesce as a group to protect ourselves.

    As a symbol for a gay-friendly business, it is especially useful.
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:29 PM GMT
    well Cas, guess this one isn't gonna understand.
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:31 PM GMT
    maybe if they just MUTED the colours. If they weren't so damn BRIGHT I think it'd be better.
  • stevarino7

    Posts: 149

    Sep 08, 2008 3:33 PM GMT
    I actually do not mind the rainbow flag at all and understand the value and purpose of it. I think it is good to have something that points out an accepting area, a safe space. You automatically know you will be welcomed when you go into a place that has one and that is important.

    But to play devils advocate, what if heterosexual people had a flag to point out that there was a heterosexual community, a safe space for straights? Would that offend anyone, or be welcomed? Or is there already a symbol that really represents that out there?
  • Laurence

    Posts: 942

    Sep 08, 2008 3:38 PM GMT
    Who cares what small-minded idiots think?

    I love the flag, as do lots of other people.

    If you're offended by it's tackniess, then so what? Grow up. We can't all like the same things. So put up with it.

    Loz
  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Sep 08, 2008 3:38 PM GMT
    chitown_mofo said
    You dont wave a flag because your college educated

    You dont wave a flag because you are an accountant

    You dont wave a flag because you like fishing

    Nor do you get attacked for any of those three (barring the Khmer Rouge's persecution of perceived intellectuals during the Cambodian genocide and possible Greenpeace demonstrations).

    The acceptability of being gay (and of gay sex) comes through the very people you're deriding. Drag queens were at the forefront fighting against the oppressive police forces during the initial "militant" gay front. They fought for you; what the f**k have you done for them?

    The acceptability of gaydom, of being gay, and of gay sex may have yet to gain the critical mass that preempts any future Anita Bryant-Florida-Miami-Dade rights turn-arounds.

    As for the Armed Forces comment:
    The US Armed Forces do not protect US civil liberties unless directed to do so by their chains-of-command. Their primary objective is to secure US territorial sovereignty and the safety of US citizens, not conceive, develop, or secure the liberties that are then entrenched within US ideals.
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:42 PM GMT
    Laurence saidWho cares what small-minded idiots think?

    I love the flag, as do lots of other people.

    If you're offended by it's tackniess, then so what? Grow up. We can't all like the same things. So put up with it.

    Loz

    There you go...one knee-jerk action begets another.

    If you were American, you would be in the Republican Party, Loz. ... icon_rolleyes.gif

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    Sep 08, 2008 3:43 PM GMT
    Youth today know nothing about our history and have no appreciation for it or our rich culture.

    Listen up KID! Know your history! If you you truly knew more about our history then you can appreciate it more!

    Thank God when I was your age I listened and learned all I could about our culture from the guys that lived through the riots, the arrests and the bashing!

    We need the flag as a salute to Gwen the tranny that was brutally murdered, for Mathew Shepard who was abushed and beaten and affixed to fense in below zero temparture!

    That's why we need the flag! To salute those who were here and lost their lives just for being how they are!

    This is just man opinion! Your kids today! You scare me by your lack knowledge and appreciation for our history!icon_biggrin.gif
  • Laurence

    Posts: 942

    Sep 08, 2008 3:46 PM GMT
    No I wouldn't be a Republican. I haven't got a shady enough past, and I care a little too much for other peopel rather than myself.

    I wasn't trying to be knee-jerk though guys.

    It just gets very boring hearing people being negative about things Gay.


    Loz
  • chitown_mofo

    Posts: 98

    Sep 08, 2008 3:49 PM GMT
    Caslon6000 said
    We dont get discriminated against because of the above examples. So your analogies are bogus. We have been forced to coalesce as a group to protect ourselves.

    As a symbol for a gay-friendly business, it is especially useful.


    So getting discriminated against means you should have a flag!?!?!? To 'coalesce as a group'? We need a flag for this? Maybe you do, but I find it kind of ridiculous that we need to have places where people feel it is obligatory to hang a bright rainbow flag over everything just to feel that its gay friendly or 'safe'.

    Im gay and its somewhat insulting to my intelligence that places that dont discriminate against me should have some bright obnoxious flag hanging in them. There are plenty of bars, shops etc that are very gay friendly or even completely gay that dont have this ostentatious thing plastered all over. Its time to let it go, its outdated and serves to separate gays from the rest of the real world.

    Its time to abolish this idea of 'The Gay Community' and start living as gays in the communities we live in. Not act like hermits who can only exist under the 'safe' shadow of a rainbow flag.

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    Sep 08, 2008 3:52 PM GMT
    This thread is gay.

    j/k

    ... in all seriousness, there's heritage and history in the flag you can't (and shouldn't) just discard and attempt to re-brand.

    My .02