Is Love and Support only for the Openly Gay Man ?


  • Nov 19, 2012 9:22 PM GMT
    I have thought about this question for a long time and I can not find a logical explanation or answer.

    So I turn to the masses for enlightenment.


    WHY ARE OPENLY GAY MEN SO CRITICAL OF CLOSETED GAY MEN.


    This is a general statement and of course do not apply to every one.


    I have lived for the past 15 years as a closet gay man, for the most part now I am open and free with my sexuality.

    For many different reasons it took me a long time to accept being gay and live a open life style.


    I am professional, educated and honest. I have never cheated on any one or been with any one who was in a relationship.

    and yet for the most part over the years, I have experienced discrimination from the gay community and made to feel not equal to those who lived as an openly gay man.


    Here is the part I do not understand, except for a few gay men who were born with "GAY" stamped on their chest and were welcomed with loving arms by their parents, community and the world as a whole.

    The rest of us at some point in time were gay and closeted our selves. for each of us the time period was different.


    A big influence on when we come out of the closet, depends on our selves, our family, and community and culture.

    Where we live on this ball of dirt floating through space also plays a role.


    I much rather hold your hand and say it's OK and you come out when you are ready. As another gay man, I support you.

    As a general rule this can be in my community or online when just chatting with some one.

    I believe in the common good of man kind and rather build some one up, then tear them down.


    For the person who would have asked the question as to why I do not have a public picture if I am out of the closet. The answer is simple,

    I live in a small city in a remote area of Canada, I hold a high profile job with the only employer in my field. Being gay is OK, having a profile on a dating fitness site may not be.


    I am now going to climb down of my soap box and leave the forum open.


    Peace,
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 19, 2012 9:36 PM GMT
    don't take the world, gay, straight or indifferent so seriously....live your own life...
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    Nov 19, 2012 9:50 PM GMT
    So guys feel that its their right to pressure guys to come out for the benefit of the greater good.

    Unfortunately they forget that there are consequences and the outcome maybe turn out to be extremely negative.

    I myself only officially came out to a few of my immediate family. Needless to say they are not happy one bit. So right now they taken a blind eye to it and that's alright by me.

    Once I have my own personal stuff sorted, I'll be able to live a happier life.
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    Nov 19, 2012 9:50 PM GMT
    Northern_Ranger saidI have thought about this question for a long time and I can not find a logical explanation or answer.

    So I turn to the masses for enlightenment.


    WHY ARE OPENLY GAY MEN SO CRITICAL OF CLOSETED GAY MEN.


    This is a general statement and of course do not apply to every one.


    I have lived for the past 15 years as a closet gay man, for the most part now I am open and free with my sexuality.

    For many different reasons it took me a long time to accept being gay and live a open life style.


    I am professional, educated and honest. I have never cheated on any one or been with any one who was in a relationship.

    and yet for the most part over the years, I have experienced discrimination from the gay community and made to feel not equal to those who lived as an openly gay man.


    Here is the part I do not understand, except for a few gay men who were born with "GAY" stamped on their chest and were welcomed with loving arms by their parents, community and the world as a whole.

    The rest of us at some point in time were gay and closeted our selves. for each of us the time period was different.


    A big influence on when we come out of the closet, depends on our selves, our family, and community and culture.

    Where we live on this ball of dirt floating through space also plays a role.


    I much rather hold your hand and say it's OK and you come out when you are ready. As another gay man, I support you.

    As a general rule this can be in my community or online when just chatting with some one.

    I believe in the common good of man kind and rather build some one up, then tear them down.


    For the person who would have asked the question as to why I do not have a public picture if I am out of the closet. The answer is simple,

    I live in a small city in a remote area of Canada, I hold a high profile job with the only employer in my field. Being gay is OK, having a profile on a dating fitness site may not be.


    I am now going to climb down of my soap box and leave the forum open.


    Peace,


    If you have to ask that question at your age in a country as liberal as Canada were gay men can marry and such then I don't think you will ever get it.

    That being said you should live the life you want to live and forget about other people's opinion.
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    Nov 19, 2012 9:50 PM GMT
    Well, now that you're openly gay you may meet some men in the closet and discover dating them can be an exercise in frustration and rather intense unhappiness.

    You may find their closet is much more important than your feelings.
    Imagine walking down the street and your closeted BF suddenly abandons you and ducks into a store because he's seen someone from work, or family, and then imagine you follow him in and so does that relative or co-worker of his.

    Your closeted BF suddenly pretends he has no idea who you are and starts talking to the relative or co-worker. They walk out together and your date is over.
    You may never be able to call up your closeted BF for a date or to talk about romantic feelings etc if he does not live alone. In fact you may not be permitted to call him at all as he may fear someone else answering the phone and peppering you with questions.

    These are a few of the pitfalls facing openly gay men trying to interact with closeted ones. icon_wink.gif

    warmly, and congrats for coming into your own!

    -Doug

  • Pontifex

    Posts: 1882

    Nov 19, 2012 9:56 PM GMT
    People can come out when they are ready as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't be in a relationship with someone in the closet. I'm out and couldn't stand being hidden or out in public with someone who acts like they are ashamed of what we are.

    A lot of guys might see it as being scared of what you are and in turn having negative feelings towards them since in their mind if you aren't happy with what you are then you aren't happy about what they are either.

    I've also heard, specifically from the older crowd, that while they were out and taking abuse the closet cases were relaxing at home.
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    Nov 19, 2012 10:02 PM GMT
    Some gay men see gay men being in the closet as them being in because they don't want to admit or accept that they are gay because in some sort of way they think they are less than because of it or are too scared of what society would think of them. And of course some gay men are offended by feeling like they are less. A lot of gay men are fighting to be seen as normal in society and it's frustrating to see that some people are too embarrassed, ashamed, and/or self-conscious to stand up like they are. I think it is important to wait till you are comfortable with yourself and ready to come out. But honestly, unless you could cause serious problems in your life from coming out such as losing your job or putting you in serious harm there's no excuse.
  • imbrad

    Posts: 377

    Nov 19, 2012 10:04 PM GMT
    The experience that man face in the closet is often as much a part if not more of someones identity as the life they live outside the closet. The closet can be a very traumatic place. For a lot of gays the coming out process is a period of major life changes. Family structures shift and communities can be altered because of one person coming out. Sometimes its not dramatic at all but everyone has their story and almost all take pride in it. An open man pressuring you to come out is not only an invitation to a certain society bound by this experience but also indicates this persons inability to detach his own story from yours. Its a complicated social bond but fascinating nonetheless.

    If you are happy not being out then great. Be happy and live your life outside the social pressures of other gays. In the end there is a sense of brotherhood outside the closet that might be difficult to acheive inside.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Nov 19, 2012 10:07 PM GMT
    Because we're at a point in our fight for our rights where being in the closet is just no longer acceptable. I was closeted for decades when I had kids to support and a job I would lose if I was out. Things are better now in the civilized world (even in the US south) and although there are still some career dangers, very brave people fought to improve things to the point where it is just cowardly to not support your brethren. Stand up and fight.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 19, 2012 10:07 PM GMT
    I have a lot of compassion for closeted men having been one myself long, long ago. I feel their pain, their concerns and fears. BUT, that said, "gay" is a social designation, not an individual one. It is a social concern, even a social movement with very real political issues at stake.

    I live in a very liberal area (SF Bay Area) and most people don't care whether I'm gay or straight. There's no real reason the rest of the civilized world can't be this way. It just has to change but it won't ever change if gay men don't reveal themselves.
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    Nov 19, 2012 10:08 PM GMT
    I don't mind guys in the closet. I usually keep two or three in mine.
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    Nov 19, 2012 10:15 PM GMT
    I get annoyed at gay friends that think its their right to call out other gay's that may want to stay closeted. Its none of my business or anyone elses if you're not comfortable coming out.

    That said, it goes both ways, a closeted man can't expect an out man to want to deal with all the nonsense that goes along with trying to maintain the lie. The reality is we've all been closeted at one point - we know what a burden it is. Dating someone that is closeted is like stepping one leg back into the closet. I would never take that on. Not to mention a man that's ashamed of who he is really isn't all that attractive imo.
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    Nov 19, 2012 10:18 PM GMT
    It's one thing if you live somewhere that persecutes gays, and you could be thrown in jail or killed for being gay.
    Barring that, it's your own fears and discomfort with yourself that keeps adults from coming out.

    One thing that people don't like is that someone in the closet has to deceive those closest to him (probably on a regular basis).
    Also to be in the closet, one would not like or accept himself (some would say self-loathing). That's not a characteristic that people find admirable.
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    Nov 19, 2012 10:18 PM GMT
    if you are uncomfortable with yourself or with the image that you are showing, you won't be comfortable in a relationship. It goes together. You need to accept yourself first.

    Also closet gays are a lot of troubles most of the time ... Gay relationships aren't easy, why make it even more complicated that it already is ?

    I'm comfortable with myself and my sexual orientation, that's why I don't feel like having to always be hiding or making sure that I'm not doing something wrong..!

  • Nov 19, 2012 10:42 PM GMT
    I have always loved a good debate and discussion.
    Please take this topic as just that, a good discussion, nothing more.icon_biggrin.gif

    Although my question was not directly related to an openly gay man dating a closeted one, that is a whole different kettle of fish so to speak,

    but rather showing support as a general rule to mutual friends and for that matter, strangers online who we have never met.


    I think jurog5 summed it up " Also closet gays are a lot of troubles most of the time ... "
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    Nov 19, 2012 10:49 PM GMT
    Northern_Ranger saidI have always loved a good debate and discussion.
    Please take this topic as just that, a good discussion, nothing more.icon_biggrin.gif

    Although my question was not directly related to an openly gay man dating a closeted one, that is a whole different kettle of fish so to speak,

    but rather showing support as a general rule to mutual friends and for that matter, strangers online who we have never met.


    I think jurog5 summed it up " Also closet gays are a lot of troubles most of the time ... "


    I would think online support is the only way closeted men could be supported by openly gay people. Anonymity. That's a lot harder in the real face-to-face world. How would an openly gay man support a closeted man outside of the internet without risking the closeted man's closetedness? icon_wink.gif

  • Nov 19, 2012 10:58 PM GMT
    Hi Doug,

    I think I could have never come out of the closet with the support of three
    wonderful openly gay friends, 1 couple and 1 single guy, who all showed
    their love and friendship when I needed it the most over the years.

    " warmly, and congrats for coming into your own! "

    Thanks,icon_biggrin.gif
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    Nov 19, 2012 11:00 PM GMT
    Northern_Ranger saidHi Doug,

    I think I could have never come out of the closet with the support of three
    wonderful openly gay friends, 1 couple and 1 single guy, who all showed
    their love and friendship when I needed it the most over the years.

    " warmly, and congrats for coming into your own! "

    Thanks,icon_biggrin.gif


    I think it may have been difficult for them to do that if they had to do it secretly. icon_wink.gif
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    Nov 19, 2012 11:03 PM GMT
    uoft23 saidI get annoyed at gay friends that think its their right to call out other gay's that may want to stay closeted. Its none of my business or anyone elses if you're not comfortable coming out.

    That said, it goes both ways, a closeted man can't expect an out man to want to deal with all the nonsense that goes along with trying to maintain the lie. The reality is we've all been closeted at one point - we know what a burden it is. Dating someone that is closeted is like stepping one leg back into the closet. I would never take that on. Not to mention a man that's ashamed of who he is really isn't all that attractive imo.


    RIGHT IN THE MONEY!

    I too was in the closet for a looooong time. I had one relationship with another closeted friend. When he refused to live together as an openly gay couple I dumped him. Years later when I had finally decided to stop living a lie and come out of the closet he thought we would pick up where we left off except he would stay closeted! I told him there was no way I was moving backward. I wasn't going to live a lie for anyone. My coming out cost me a great deal and I wasn't about to take someone on a free ride.

    I don't care if you're built like a brick shit house and are the most beautiful man I've ever seen I'm still running the other way if you're closeted.

    The more gays that come out of the closet the more the straight world will see that we are doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, politicians, uncles, brothers, sons, nephews - normal everyday people like themselves and they will be forced to change their world view. If you're not part of the solution you are definitely part of the problem.
  • Ej101

    Posts: 444

    Nov 19, 2012 11:05 PM GMT
    You know I asked myself the same question
  • ThatSwimmerGu...

    Posts: 3755

    Nov 20, 2012 1:29 AM GMT
    Only reason why I'm not out is because if my parents found out I'd more than likely be sent to a gay-straight conversion, and/or kicked out of the house, and/or have my college funds dropped from my parents.
    The people like me that have the strict religious-overprotective parents that have a hard time feeling comfortable with it.
    Also the lack of gay friends is hard too.
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    Nov 20, 2012 1:57 AM GMT
    NormalGuy93 saidOnly reason why I'm not out is because if my parents found out I'd more than likely be sent to a gay-straight conversion, and/or kicked out of the house, and/or have my college funds dropped from my parents.
    The people like me that have the strict religious-overprotective parents that have a hard time feeling comfortable with it.
    Also the lack of gay friends is hard too.


    I hope you will come out when you are done with school and financially independent !
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    Nov 20, 2012 2:10 AM GMT
    MikeW said[...] It just has to change but it won't ever change if gay men don't reveal themselves.


    ... as proud individuals.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Nov 20, 2012 2:16 AM GMT
    All women hate each other, even though they pretend otherwise and go off to lunch together hand in hand like they are best friends.

    Gay men can't seem to like each other even enough to pretend.

    It's an issue.
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    Nov 20, 2012 2:24 AM GMT
    I would love and support a closeted gay man or woman to come out.