Sarah Palin's Church Endorsing "Pray Away the Gay"

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    Sep 08, 2008 2:36 PM GMT
    ANCHORAGE, Alaska — Gov. Sarah Palin's church is promoting a conference that promises to convert gays into heterosexuals through the power of prayer.

    "You'll be encouraged by the power of God's love and His desire to transform the lives of those impacted by homosexuality," according to the insert in the bulletin of the Wasilla Bible Church, where Palin has prayed for about six years.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/06/palins-church-promotes-co_n_124536.html?page=2&show_comment_id=15430401#comment_15430401

    So what are your thoughts on Sarah Palin's church wanting to pray away the gay? I know we have GOP members here on RJ.
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    Sep 08, 2008 2:51 PM GMT
    Well, this is a prime example of Sarah's ineptitude. She tried scrubbing it out, soaking it out and praying it out, but there are still gay republicans.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Sep 08, 2008 3:03 PM GMT
    This is complicated. The feelings that deeply religious people have about homosexuality are what they are, and they are deep rooted, and they are not going to go away any time soon. It doesn't necessarily mean that they HATE gays, in fact, most probably have someone who is gay within their own family. I don't particularly think that the idea that a church may want to use prayer in an effort to save someone from a life of homosexuality is necessarily the worst thing in the world. I don't find it mean-spirited in any way. Like it or not, there are people in this world that simply do not understand or relate to homosexuality, and we can stomp are feet and whine and beat our heads against that wall all we want and that isn't going to change this.
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:06 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidThis is complicated. The feelings that deeply religious people have about homosexuality are what they are, and they are deep rooted, and they are not going to go away any time soon. It doesn't necessarily mean that they HATE gays, in fact, most probably have someone who is gay within their own family. I don't particularly think that the idea that a church may want to use prayer in an effort to save someone from a life of homosexuality is necessarily the worst thing in the world. I don't find it mean-spirited in any way. Like it or not, there are people in this world that simply do not understand or relate to homosexuality, and we can stomp are feet and whine and beat our heads against that wall all we want and that isn't going to change this.


    icon_rolleyes.gif

    uh huh.
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:07 PM GMT
    I agree, There are people who despite more awareness about Homosexuality, they still see it in a negative light. If only because of the risk of HIV/AIDS. I don't see this srt of thing as being mean in spirit, just misguided.
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:08 PM GMT
    "If only because of the risk of HIV/AIDS"

    Oh, that's right. I forgot how beloved homosexuals were before the advent of AIDS. Duh.

    Call an exorcist.
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:15 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidLike it or not, there are people in this world that simply do not understand or relate to homosexuality, and we can stomp are feet and whine and beat our heads against that wall all we want and that isn't going to change this.


    Similarly, people who don't understand or accept homosexuality can stomp their feet, whine, and beat their heads against the wall all they want. It isn't going to stop (or even slow) the general acceptance of gays into mainstream culture, and it isn't going to make them look any more tolerant, compassionate, or relevant in the modern world.
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:19 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidThis is complicated. The feelings that deeply religious people have about homosexuality are what they are, and they are deep rooted, and they are not going to go away any time soon. It doesn't necessarily mean that they HATE gays, in fact, most probably have someone who is gay within their own family. I don't particularly think that the idea that a church may want to use prayer in an effort to save someone from a life of homosexuality is necessarily the worst thing in the world. I don't find it mean-spirited in any way. Like it or not, there are people in this world that simply do not understand or relate to homosexuality, and we can stomp are feet and whine and beat our heads against that wall all we want and that isn't going to change this.


    Dude, your gay card called and said it wants its membership back. Have you been through the ex-gay nightmare? Have you been through multiple humiliating and demeaning "deliverance" sessions? Have you had to force your square life into a round hole for years on end? Have you broken hearts when, after years of earnestly trying, you finally realize that you can no longer deny who you really are? Have you wished for death rather than facing the fact that you're gay? Have you been shunned and/or abandoned by former church "friends" when you came out to them?

    This isn't about stomping feet or whining. This is about the fundamental rights of human beings: Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The ex-gay crowd would like to strip us of the latter two. Make no mistake, these people are just as interested in social engineering as the lefties are purported to be. They want a world that conforms to their narrow worldview. Christ hung out with the lowlifes of his day, showing them love and acceptance. The radical right wants no part of that. Sure, there are individual exceptions (I know some of them), but as a movement, don't for a minute think that these people wouldn't expunge us from society if they could figure out how to do it.
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    Sep 08, 2008 3:26 PM GMT
    CuriousThis is complicated.


    I love the subtlety, the struggle with the complication of church-endorsed prejudice. I assume you brought the same discernment to Rev. Jeremiah Wright's sermon.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Sep 08, 2008 3:36 PM GMT
    Its not complicated to me, but I'd like to ask the Palin woman if as VP
    she'd like to have a national conference on the same topic.
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    Sep 08, 2008 4:09 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidIts not complicated to me, but I'd like to ask the Palin woman if as VP
    she'd like to have a national conference on the same topic.


    It's called Promise Keepers, dontcha know.

    I gotta tell ya, if she pushes that kind of an agenda, this country may move beyond a civil war of values to a more tangible form of the same.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Sep 08, 2008 4:12 PM GMT
    ruck_us saidThe ex-gay crowd would like to strip us of the latter two. Make no mistake, these people are just as interested in social engineering as the lefties are purported to be. They want a world that conforms to their narrow worldview. Christ hung out with the lowlifes of his day, showing them love and acceptance. The radical right wants no part of that. Sure, there are individual exceptions (I know some of them), but as a movement, don't for a minute think that these people wouldn't expunge us from society if they could figure out how to do it.



    This is more about the way you care to interpret all this than it is rooted in reality. Look, I can only speak for myself, but I don't feel discriminated against, or ridiculed, or any of that. I just live my life and pay no attention to the negativity that is, and probably always will be, aimed at gays for whatever reason by bigoted people who, like it or not, are out there and will likely always be out there. It's not like gays are the only ones who face discrimination or ridicule or whatever. We live in a cruel world sometimes, but I personally choose to focus on the positive, not the negative. Make no mistake about it, discrimination of any kind is wrong, unfair, and unfortunate. That being said, I do not walk around everyday feeling that negativity. In fact, I just don't even pay attention to it, even when or if it does come into my world which, honestly, it rarely does. If you want to walk around and spend your every waking moment believing that people want to "expunge us from society", hey, go right ahead, knock yourself out. I have a life to live, and those sort of negative notions are not a part of it -- period. Sorry if that sounds selfish, but that is just the way I see the world through my eyes.
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    Sep 08, 2008 4:18 PM GMT
    Well now the two parties are even. Mr. Obama's church pastor was hardly what I would consider tolerant.

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    Sep 08, 2008 4:20 PM GMT
    People really have forgotten the idea of the common good.
  • ROYCE13

    Posts: 315

    Sep 08, 2008 4:22 PM GMT
    FYI- there are liberals and liberal Democrats who go to these churches as well. They also pray, prayers are not exclusive to Republicans. I would wage that many of the Democrats on this site have praying parents, grandparents or brothers and sisters who may be praying the same pray for you. They may not let you know that they are, though. It is an odd thing to discuss in a thread, because most people here take it as a sign of hate (based on the posts on this site). I bet that if they prayed, and they probably do, to have some healed of HIV, then they would still be considered haters of gays. Or, would you be silently happy that someone is praying for people with HIV. The same for drug addicted, abusers, depressed etc... The use of hate of this site is very popular, and by most posts, many of you are haters, so how are you different.
  • ROYCE13

    Posts: 315

    Sep 08, 2008 4:25 PM GMT
    FYI - my post above is not an endorsement for either political party.
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    Sep 08, 2008 4:36 PM GMT
    ROYCE13 saidFYI - my post above is not an endorsement for either political party.


    Gays are understandbly worried about these fundamentalist churches. If they minded their own business and stuck to religion and giving comfort to their parishioners then I don't think anybody on RJ would be worried. But they often do not. They use their political influence to try and block advancement of gay rights in the USA and elsewhere. The so called "ex-gay" movement is often has a fundamentalist christian basis. And finally the fundamentalists were on the front-line of delaying action on AIDS in the 1980s.

    Hatred? No, but gays should be willing and ready to stand up to them and not let things slide just because they are a church.
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    Sep 08, 2008 4:44 PM GMT
    ROYCE13 saidFYI- there are liberals and liberal Democrats who go to these churches as well. They also pray, prayers are not exclusive to Republicans. I would wage that many of the Democrats on this site have praying parents, grandparents or brothers and sisters who may be praying the same pray for you. They may not let you know that they are, though. It is an odd thing to discuss in a thread, because most people here take it as a sign of hate (based on the posts on this site). I bet that if they prayed, and they probably do, to have some healed of HIV, then they would still be considered haters of gays. Or, would you be silently happy that someone is praying for people with HIV. The same for drug addicted, abusers, depressed etc... The use of hate of this site is very popular, and by most posts, many of you are haters, so how are you different.


    Prayer in the privacy of one's home is not at all the same as an orchestrated movement that seeks to forcibly change the sexual orientation of thousands upon thousands of people.

    Look, I'm all for positive prayer. I think that praying the gay away is misguided and ineffective, but I don't expect anyone, regardless of denomination or political leaning, to stop praying their consciences. Classic liberalism tolerates this.

    @ CuriousJockAZ: "If you want to walk around and spend your every waking moment believing that people want to "expunge us from society", hey, go right ahead, knock yourself out. I have a life to live, and those sort of negative notions are not a part of it -- period."

    You're completely missing the point, and I'm probably a fool for trying to convince you otherwise, but I hope that my message reaches more receptive ears. First of all, I don't "spend [my] every waking moment believing that people want to expunge us from society," but I endured the ex-gay nightmare. I felt it. I breathed it. I lived it. You appear to have been fortunate enough not to have been immersed in decades of ex-gay programs and propaganda. Great, I get it. However, the freedom you enjoy to "personally choose to focus on the positive, not the negative" is really at stake, as is freedom of conscience. The religious right is about conformity. Classic liberalism is about open-mindedness, self-determination and freedom of conscience. I get the appeal of fiscal responsibility and of smaller government, but those values have been co-opted by the radical right wing of the RNC to include conformity with a particular worldview. As we draw ever nearer to fascism in the United States, you may very well come to find that your happy-go-lucky approach to life will be challenged. If or when that happens, I'd like to see if you sing the same tune.
  • ROYCE13

    Posts: 315

    Sep 08, 2008 5:24 PM GMT

    I am not sure if the last two posts below mine were directed at me or not.

    I was responding to the thread of what do you think. I always respond from my experiences, which yes shape my views. I find that a lot of people talk about their views, but yet have no experiences to actually shape those views.

    I am in church about twice a week, predominately nondenominational churches, but rooted from fundamentalist backgrounds, but if you research, churches,like a Methodist church for example, was from the same origins. I have been in churches that have prayed similar prayers. They are real people who do not hate gays, yes there are probably a few in each church who may think that they hate. It is a complicated issue. I have seen many of these churches try to reach out beyond their belief to help gay people however. They may think something is wrong, but they love and embrace and extend a hand to help and change lives regardless if the person changes or not. And yes some are not like this. My point is not all conservative church people hate gays. I can say this because I am seeing it in churches in California, Florida, Texas, Ohio, and other places in the USA, so I say this out of experience.

    When I read the topic of this thread, I thought please do not let this title be true, because it is not a good prayer to "pray the gay away", is this the actual title used. Some churches use words that may appear wrong, such as the " pray away the gay" , but if someone explained to them maybe the choice of word are a bit insensitive, they would understand. I do not believe a church should be hands off from comment by groups as suggested, because they are a church. But many churches are held to be a part of a group when they are not. Many of the fundamentalist churches in the west are independent, and broke away from the so called southern values, because they may have the same spiritual beliefs, but not the same religious beliefs. But I see that many people think a church is a church and they must be part of the Right winged republican evangelical movement.

    There is some much to say about these issues, but I have become hesitant and have restrained, over the last month or so, because of the unproductive comments posted.

    When I talk to some who are so verbal, they quickly reveal that they have no experiences in what they are saying. So many of you think that our lives are either bad or good, I have had a vast rich life in experiences, with living with many cultures, 8 mothers, 24 step brothers and sister over the years, seen and experienced abuse of all types, been on all sides of the tracks of everything, I have always been and am always labeled a person who is comfortable with the uncomfortable. So I feel I can offer some things, but I feel that we have to watch every word to carefully , because many of you pounce on every word and create as you state, flame wars.

    You can tell when someone is trying to start a flame war or when someone is trying to actually participate. I may be rambling or off topic now, but I was just offering some insight. (One does not always have the time to review before posting so I just fly the words of the board).

    I am who I am on the threads and off, but over the last three months on being on this site, I have come to know that many of the posters are not who they are, or who they say they are. Many have IM and emailed who then reveal their true colors on many issues discussed here.

    So I sit and laugh, yes laugh ( I have stated that before) when I read their posts on serious issues, because what they say and do are much different.


  • ROYCE13

    Posts: 315

    Sep 08, 2008 5:25 PM GMT
    I was not referring to todays posts as unproductive-fyi.
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Sep 08, 2008 5:29 PM GMT
    SurrealLife saidWell now the two parties are even. Mr. Obama's church pastor was hardly what I would consider tolerant.



    Tolerant towards gays or tolerant toward what he saw as injustice. If it's intolerance toward gays that you're talking about, then your information is missing some facts. Jeremiah Wright may have been a nutter when it came to certain policies and HIV/AIDS conspiracies, but he started programs to help same-sex loving people in his church when he was the pastor. Programs that are still in effect under the new pastor of that church.
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    Sep 08, 2008 5:40 PM GMT
    Biatch, it's not a effin disease or something, it's not a choice, and you can't "pray" it away. Just fucking come to your senses and you'd see that if it was a choice, do you really think any of us would choose to be this way? Fuck no, look what we have to go through. Try walking a mile in any one of our shoes, and then let me hear you preach about how you think you can "turn us straight". icon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 08, 2008 5:55 PM GMT
    "Look, I can only speak for myself, but I don't feel discriminated against, or ridiculed, or any of that." CuriousJockAZ

    Translation:

    "Trollop pie makes me numb."

    trolloppie.jpg

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    Sep 08, 2008 6:52 PM GMT
    Cant we just pray Palin/McCain away
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    Sep 08, 2008 6:55 PM GMT
    ROYCE13 said
    I am not sure if the last two posts below mine were directed at me or not.


    We both quoted your post, so I would say that's a fair assumption. The first part of my response was in response to your comments about the innocuousness of prayer. The rest of my post was in response to CuriousJockAZ.

    To respond to your follow-up comments, I don't think that the majority of conservative Christians "hate" gays.

    "They may think something is wrong, but they love and embrace and extend a hand to help and change lives regardless if the person changes or not."

    They preach the mantra of "hate the sin, love the sinner," and I believe that a majority do just that. However, it's based upon a premise that being gay IS a sin. They believe that the application of faith, prayer and discipline can overcome one's gayness.

    "My point is not all conservative church people hate gays. I can say this because I am seeing it in churches in California, Florida, Texas, Ohio, and other places in the USA, so I say this out of experience."

    For example? What are you seeing? What are the missions of these organizations and their tangible outcomes?

    "There is some much to say about these issues, but I have become hesitant and have restrained, over the last month or so, because of the unproductive comments posted."

    Why should you be any more reticent to speak than I am? I've been rebutted, repeatedly, by folks like CuriousJockAZ, but that's not enough to shut me up. In fact, as much as I disagree with him, I'm glad that CuriousJockAZ remains engaged in the debate. Speak your piece, man.

    "You can tell when someone is trying to start a flame war or when someone is trying to actually participate. I may be rambling or off topic now, but I was just offering some insight. (One does not always have the time to review before posting so I just fly the words of the board)."

    Who was this directed toward? Examples?