POLITICAL ARGUMENTS ON RJ: Tossing Respect to the Wind

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Sep 08, 2008 3:10 PM GMT
    Well we've been having some interesting political dialogue haven't we?
    Based on some of what we have written, I can see why so many say,
    "Don't discuss religion or politics"... but we should discuss both, but
    need to keep some degree of civility in the matter. I'm just wondering if its all possible.

    We all have the right to disagree and disagree forcefully provided there is a point. What I find troubling is the following:

    1) Defending your position and calling a quoted member names or personally
    attacking his or a previous posters commentary. "Your stupid", etc....

    2) Railing against a previous president (or individual) as a way to support a weak argument. It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, except to
    make additional negative commentary for no real reason. I like fact based arguments, not emotionally based ones.

    3) Quoting sources: If you are quoting or giving information about the position of a candidate, based on some other person's writing, that should be fully disclosed. I find anything else dishonest and disturbing.

    4) Keeping a real sense of the big picture: We have petty arguments about
    really kind of "nonsensical" reasons. More times than not, yelling back at a poster because of their disrespectful comment really doesn't do any good.
    If you want to try and change someones mind, used a grounded and logical base to start, treat the person with respect and give them food for thought.
    If you are stating your case, keep in mind how your comments will be interpreted by the readers here and "tailor" your argument to be effective, not to get in "digs".

    5) Be humorous: Its no secret that I have been having arguments with "CuriousJockAZ" for months. I still consider him a friend and while I view his positions as a little "off kilter" so to speak (LOL)... you've got to deal with things humorously. If not, friendships can be affected... and for what ... really?

    The political discussion is going to be a fever pitch over the next several months. I know I'll be in the middle of it, but if it get disrespectful, I'd rather just adjourn the thread and not participate and squabble.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 08, 2008 3:13 PM GMT
    It would be nice if we could keep the blue-red divide outside of RJ forums. Confusingly in Canada blue represents the Conservatives and Red represents the Liberals so I have to keep remembering which country I am talking about.

    One thing everyone should remember, is regardless of who you vote for and who wins, they will probably screw up almost as much as they succeed!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 08, 2008 4:46 PM GMT
    SurrealLife saidIt would be nice if we could keep the blue-red divide outside of RJ forums. Confusingly in Canada blue represents the Conservatives and Red represents the Liberals so I have to keep remembering which country I am talking about.

    You all got the colors wrong, too? ... icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 08, 2008 10:30 PM GMT
    I would say something witty but I'm still leaking raspberry juice after I was smote by the wooden stake through the heart bit.

    Who's gonna kiss it and make it all better?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 08, 2008 10:39 PM GMT
    Buckwheet saidI would say something witty but I'm still leaking raspberry juice after I was smote by the wooden stake through the heart bit.

    Who's gonna kiss it and make it all better?


    I can't believe you took my cynicism seriously. It was completely tongue-in-cheek, you dodo head. (That was a term of endearment, btw, lest I be misconstrued.) icon_smile.gif

    09685_a_l.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 08, 2008 10:55 PM GMT
    Respect is earned. Ridicule comes at a great price, and there are many who pay a great price to receive it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 08, 2008 10:59 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidWell we've been having some interesting political dialogue haven't we?
    Based on some of what we have written, I can see why so many say,
    "Don't discuss religion or politics"... but we should discuss both, but
    need to keep some degree of civility in the matter. I'm just wondering if its all possible.

    We all have the right to disagree and disagree forcefully provided there is a point. What I find troubling is the following:

    1) Defending your position and calling a quoted member names or personally
    attacking his or a previous posters commentary. "Your stupid", etc....

    2) Railing against a previous president (or individual) as a way to support a weak argument. It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, except to
    make additional negative commentary for no real reason. I like fact based arguments, not emotionally based ones.

    3) Quoting sources: If you are quoting or giving information about the position of a candidate, based on some other person's writing, that should be fully disclosed. I find anything else dishonest and disturbing.

    4) Keeping a real sense of the big picture: We have petty arguments about
    really kind of "nonsensical" reasons. More times than not, yelling back at a poster because of their disrespectful comment really doesn't do any good.
    If you want to try and change someones mind, used a grounded and logical base to start, treat the person with respect and give them food for thought.
    If you are stating your case, keep in mind how your comments will be interpreted by the readers here and "tailor" your argument to be effective, not to get in "digs".

    5) Be humorous: Its no secret that I have been having arguments with "CuriousJockAZ" for months. I still consider him a friend and while I view his positions as a little "off kilter" so to speak (LOL)... you've got to deal with things humorously. If not, friendships can be affected... and for what ... really?

    The political discussion is going to be a fever pitch over the next several months. I know I'll be in the middle of it, but if it get disrespectful, I'd rather just adjourn the thread and not participate and squabble.




    "Jane, you ignorant slut."

    -Akroyd
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Sep 09, 2008 12:45 AM GMT
    Yes, discussion can get heated. I just want everyone to know that I do not take anything, and I hope no one else does, personally when in these heated discussions. Politics, especially in these times, can be a hot button, but let's all stay friendly. There isn't one of you that I wouldn't welcome meeting in person.

    group hug icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 12:48 AM GMT
    Awwww... thanks curious LOL. icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 12:50 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidYes, discussion can get heated. I just want everyone to know that I do not take anything, and I hope no one else does, personally when in these heated discussions. Politics, especially in these times, can be a hot button, but let's all stay friendly. There isn't one of you that I wouldn't welcome meeting in person.

    group hug icon_wink.gif

    Ditto!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 1:04 AM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidWell we've been having some interesting political dialogue haven't we?Based on some of what we have written, I can see why so many say, "Don't discuss religion or politics"... but we should discuss both, but need to keep some degree of civility in the matter. I'm just wondering if its all possible. We all have the right to disagree and disagree forcefully provided there is a point. What I find troubling is the following: 1) Defending your position and calling a quoted member names or personally attacking his or a previous posters commentary. "Your stupid", etc.... 2) Railing against a previous president (or individual) as a way to support a weak argument. It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, except to make additional negative commentary for no real reason. I like fact based arguments, not emotionally based ones. 3) Quoting sources: If you are quoting or giving information about the position of a candidate, based on some other person's writing, that should be fully disclosed. I find anything else dishonest and disturbing. 4) Keeping a real sense of the big picture: We have petty arguments about really kind of "nonsensical" reasons. More times than not, yelling back at a poster because of their disrespectful comment really doesn't do any good. If you want to try and change someones mind, used a grounded and logical base to start, treat the person with respect and give them food for thought. If you are stating your case, keep in mind how your comments will be interpreted by the readers here and "tailor" your argument to be effective, not to get in "digs". 5) Be humorous: Its no secret that I have been having arguments with "CuriousJockAZ" for months. I still consider him a friend and while I view his positions as a little "off kilter" so to speak (LOL)... you've got to deal with things humorously. If not, friendships can be affected... and for what ... really? The political discussion is going to be a fever pitch over the next several months. I know I'll be in the middle of it, but if it get disrespectful, I'd rather just adjourn the thread and not participate and squabble.



    I say this with all due respect: what about freedom of speech?!

    Who cares what kind of arguments you like?! This is a free site. If anyone feels "troubled" by anything written here then feel free to comment - or feel free to practice your own brand of restraint or adjournment.

    I, for one, do not care for anyone telling me what to discuss - or what the rules of discourse should be.

    Again, this is a free site. FREE. Thank you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 1:14 AM GMT
    Aw, Todd, c'mere you big Republican lug. Time for a hug.
  • chitown_mofo

    Posts: 98

    Sep 09, 2008 1:23 AM GMT
    I'm kinda torn on this, I guess it all goes with the tone of the original post. If you post something a little incendiary (which can be fun), I think you open the door to similar responses.

    But if someone starts a thread thats serious in tone, then it should be respectful. Im guiilty of violating this icon_twisted.gif but I can try try again!

    But not discussing politics or Religion?!?!? FUCK THAT!!! Those are the best topics to discuss
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 1:30 AM GMT
    Talking politics and religion reveals more about people than they'd ever likely willingly reveal. So please, let's continue.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 1:58 AM GMT
    I love posts like these. They make my day. Makes me happy to have no religion but still I'm respectful of others and as far as politics go just call me greedy because I go with what I feel is right for me.

    Curious....I'd greet you in person and online. Hugz icon_biggrin.gif
  • SkyMiles

    Posts: 963

    Sep 09, 2008 2:35 AM GMT
    Bear in mind that the issues these forums touch on are the most personal and emotional subjects possible --

    -A war in which thousands of Americans died and a hell of a lot of Iraqis, where our leadership's motives are murky at best. And where anyone who opposed the war even slightly was castigated as being a 'traitor', 'terrorist sympathizer', and worse.

    -The role of government as far as it's duty to protect it's citizens from natural and man-made upheavals.

    -The role of goverment as far as what rights it grants it's citizens and what it takes away. Especially on this site, the question: 'will the government allow me to marry the person I love', or, 'will the government zealously prosecute hate crimes', are pretty sensitive subjects.

    The way things are in this country right now, compromise and recognizing other povs are out the window. 51% rule and have no qualms at all about crushing out anyone who disagrees. I'd love for things to be more civil in American AND on RJ, but a lot of what we're discussing is about who will write and enforce the laws that we will all have to live by.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 2:43 AM GMT
    Colbert_Nation said -A war in which thousands of Americans died and a hell of a lot of Iraqis, where our leadership's motives are murky at best. And where anyone who opposed the war even slightly was castigated as being a 'traitor', 'terrorist sympathizer', and worse.


    Yes, remember what Goebbels---I mean, Ari Fleischer---said?

    "People are going to have to watch what they say, watch what they do."

    We need a new Nuremburg Trials commission.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 2:44 AM GMT
    Colbert_Nation saidI'd love for things to be more civil in American AND on RJ, but a lot of what we're discussing is about who will write and enforce the laws that we will all have to live by.


    Exactly. I need to hire you as my speech, um, forum writer. icon_wink.gif
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Sep 09, 2008 2:50 AM GMT
    PHLmuscle8 said
    .



    I say this with all due respect: what about freedom of speech?!

    Who cares what kind of arguments you like?! This is a free site. If anyone feels "troubled" by anything written here then feel free to comment - or feel free to practice your own brand of restraint or adjournment.

    I, for one, do not care for anyone telling me what to discuss - or what the rules of discourse should be.

    Again, this is a free site. FREE. Thank you.




    Well I'll tell you what.. if you make certain threats or stalk someone on here
    or use four letter language.. you can take up your speech argument with RJ when you get kicked out. I view this site as a certain privilege and if you abuse it, it will be revoked.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 9:06 PM GMT
    Discussions are great if they are just that, discussions. Sometimes the RJ forum topics deteriorate into yelling matches in which people stop listening to each other. At that point I tune out and move onto something more constructive.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 9:12 PM GMT
    Thank you, HndsmKansan for posting this. You're the cat's meow...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 9:20 PM GMT
    This has been mentioned before, but they REALLY need to get a "karma" system on here. In such a system, other users can click on icons to give positive of negative points to a poster, based on the post. People who get over a certain threshold of negative point balance in a certain amount of time are restricted from posting replies (if lots of people give them positive points, it counteracts negative). It definitely helps when one person is posting a lot of comments that are off topic/inappropriate, and which no one wants to hear. It allows people to keep a discussion relevant without "banning" a user. I think such a system would go long way towards improving the quality of the forums, and it's a more democratic way than either specifying lists of rules or relying on the site admins to intervene.
  • RSportsguy

    Posts: 1925

    Sep 09, 2008 9:22 PM GMT
    SAHEM62896 saidThank you, HndsmKansan for posting this. You're the cat's meow...


    I totally agree with Adam on this!! icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 09, 2008 9:36 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan said
    PHLmuscle8 said
    .
    I say this with all due respect: what about freedom of speech?! Who cares what kind of arguments you like?!

    This is a free site. If anyone feels "troubled" by anything written here then feel free to comment - or feel free to practice your own brand of restraint or adjournment. I, for one, do not care for anyone telling me what to discuss - or what the rules of discourse should be. Again, this is a free site. FREE. Thank you.



    Well I'll tell you what.. if you make certain threats or stalk someone on here
    or use four letter language.. you can take up your speech argument with RJ when you get kicked out. I view this site as a certain privilege and if you abuse it, it will be revoked.




    LOL Tell me what?! Hndsm, I did no such thing. I respectfully declined your 5-point list of instructions that opened this thread.

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Sep 10, 2008 1:31 AM GMT
    PHLmuscle8 said
    HndsmKansan said
    PHLmuscle8 said
    .
    I say this with all due respect: what about freedom of speech?! Who cares what kind of arguments you like?!

    This is a free site. If anyone feels "troubled" by anything written here then feel free to comment - or feel free to practice your own brand of restraint or adjournment. I, for one, do not care for anyone telling me what to discuss - or what the rules of discourse should be. Again, this is a free site. FREE. Thank you.
    .




    LOL Tell me what?! Hndsm, I did no such thing. I respectfully declined your 5-point list of instructions that opened this thread.



    You can decline whatever you choose, my comment was based on your assertion that "based on freedom of speech" you can say anything you want here. My response was that RJ would deem it appropriate or inappropriate.