Nervous about increasing calories > 3500

  • tiger13

    Posts: 49

    Nov 20, 2012 4:15 AM GMT
    Hi Guys,

    I've spent the last three years experimenting with nutrition and training and improving my habits slowly but surely. At the point now it's a running joke in the office about my planned meals and macros :-) As I've grown from 160lbs to 190lbs I've had to steadily eat more. Man, I was scared that the extra calories would just make me fat! But a good diet didn't.

    I've been eating ~ 3200-3500cal/day with a strong training routine. With so many carbs I definitely look/feel "full" but that's OK, I know it's not fat.

    I want to see what 200lbs and fit looks like, and thinking of upping it up to 3800-4000 calories with a 40/40/20 split (carbs/protein/fat).

    But - nervous! This seems like an insane amount of food and shakes.

    I suppose I can just keep an eye and if it starts to go south (as in fat) back off and fix it, but still nervous!

    Anybody else been through this? icon_smile.gif

    - J
  • DR86

    Posts: 6

    Nov 20, 2012 5:46 AM GMT
    I'm feeling the same way about going up to 3200-3500. I'm beginning Jim Stoppani's 12-week Shortcut to Size program. I'm at about 2500 calories a day now, want to see what 170-175 looks like on my 5'8 frame.

    Good luck!

    Daniel
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2012 11:31 AM GMT
    Some people think it's cute when hot guys don't know they're hot.

    I think it's kinda sad.
  • tiger13

    Posts: 49

    Nov 20, 2012 1:39 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidSome people think it's cute when hot guys don't know they're hot.

    I think it's kinda sad.


    Ouch, I think you're reading something into it that isn't here.

    This was not an "omg i feel fat" post.
  • tiger13

    Posts: 49

    Nov 20, 2012 1:47 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidSome people think it's cute when hot guys don't know they're hot.

    I think it's kinda sad.


    My nervousness comes from - will my body really make good use of all of this food? Is the trick here really just eat a clean diet and train hard and it goes on as good weight? It's not that easy. How to find the point of diminishing returns? Trial and error? Beyond that point of diminishing returns, does it go on as unwanted weight or just go right through you?
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    Nov 20, 2012 3:24 PM GMT
    I don't get it. I think you look great now. Why are you trying to look pudgy?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2012 3:30 PM GMT
    Seems to me you've sort of answered your own question in the OP. Try it and if it doesn't work you can adjust. Given the changes you've made and your meticulous approach, you clearly have the self discipline to see it through.
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    Nov 20, 2012 3:32 PM GMT
    It all depends on you. Try it and see. Everyone's metabolism is different. I was consuming around 6,000 calories a day and I couldn't break 145 pounds.
  • tiger13

    Posts: 49

    Nov 22, 2012 7:46 PM GMT
    redacting saidIt all depends on you. Try it and see. Everyone's metabolism is different. I was consuming around 6,000 calories a day and I couldn't break 145 pounds.


    Holy cow, 6,000 calories a day. Thanks :-) Ok, I won't stress it and see how it goes.
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    Nov 22, 2012 8:04 PM GMT
    tiger13 said
    paulflexes saidSome people think it's cute when hot guys don't know they're hot.

    I think it's kinda sad.


    Ouch, I think you're reading something into it that isn't here.

    This was not an "omg i feel fat" post.


    I have seen Paulflexes on a few other posts. Don't be offended by it, it's just his way. You learn to... well, he's really a nice...

    Anyways, I kind of see what he's saying. You are already super fit (or seem to be) and extremely hot. Why do you feel the need to change?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 22, 2012 8:19 PM GMT
    I have tried exactly what you said, and what happened is I got "thick" and did not like the fact I wasn't as defined. My BF% went up just slightly, but all thise extra calories made me retain water, hence the "thick" or "bloated" look. Give it a try, your body, as lean as it is, could probably handle it. Anyway, it's not that hard to burn it back down...
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    Nov 22, 2012 8:46 PM GMT
    I don't know how you get that many calories in. The minute I do a second shake in one day... well... It doesn't go well the following morning. Lol.

    I wish my stonach/gut wasnt such a bitch.
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    Nov 22, 2012 9:40 PM GMT
    When I was competin gat a high level I was on 6000 calories a day - no shakes. My jaw hurted from eating all the time haha
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Nov 22, 2012 9:59 PM GMT
    I'm pretty sure it's not possible to consume and process 6000 cal in a day. That's 1.5kg dry weight, plus all the water that's in everything, so 5.5kg of consumption.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot of that went to waste, if you actually were, in fact, consuming 12lbs of food and water a day...
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    Nov 22, 2012 10:18 PM GMT
    Medjai saidI'm pretty sure it's not possible to consume and process 6000 cal in a day. That's 1.5kg dry weight, plus all the water that's in everything, so 5.5kg of consumption.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot of that went to waste, if you actually were, in fact, consuming 12lbs of food and water a day...


    Since when was 6000 caloris 1.5kg?
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Nov 22, 2012 10:26 PM GMT
    surfswim said
    Medjai saidI'm pretty sure it's not possible to consume and process 6000 cal in a day. That's 1.5kg dry weight, plus all the water that's in everything, so 5.5kg of consumption.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot of that went to waste, if you actually were, in fact, consuming 12lbs of food and water a day...


    Since when was 6000 caloris 1.5kg?


    Carbs and proteins are the same caloric density. Fats would mess it up, but they're typically not high in concentration.

    There are 4 calories per gram of carbs or protein. That's 1500g, or 1.5kg.

    This is also assuming 100% of the weight is macronutrients and usable. Things like fibre, or vitamins and minerals, would only increase the weight.
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    Nov 22, 2012 10:33 PM GMT
    Medjai said
    surfswim said
    Medjai saidI'm pretty sure it's not possible to consume and process 6000 cal in a day. That's 1.5kg dry weight, plus all the water that's in everything, so 5.5kg of consumption.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot of that went to waste, if you actually were, in fact, consuming 12lbs of food and water a day...


    Since when was 6000 caloris 1.5kg?


    Carbs and proteins are the same caloric density. Fats would mess it up, but they're typically not high in concentration.

    There are 4 calories per gram of carbs or protein. That's 1500g, or 1.5kg.

    This is also assuming 100% of the weight is macronutrients and usable. Things like fibre, or vitamins and minerals, would only increase the weight.


    Fairly certain it doesn't work like that...
    I definitely managed it.
    And I'm sure if you ask or even google how other athletes manage you'd see its possible.

    Besids even if it was 5.5kg of consumption, thats managable - the stomach can hold up to 3 litres I believe, and can take as little as an hour to empty.
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Nov 22, 2012 10:36 PM GMT
    surfswim said
    Medjai said
    surfswim said
    Medjai saidI'm pretty sure it's not possible to consume and process 6000 cal in a day. That's 1.5kg dry weight, plus all the water that's in everything, so 5.5kg of consumption.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot of that went to waste, if you actually were, in fact, consuming 12lbs of food and water a day...


    Since when was 6000 caloris 1.5kg?


    Carbs and proteins are the same caloric density. Fats would mess it up, but they're typically not high in concentration.

    There are 4 calories per gram of carbs or protein. That's 1500g, or 1.5kg.

    This is also assuming 100% of the weight is macronutrients and usable. Things like fibre, or vitamins and minerals, would only increase the weight.


    Fairly certain it doesn't work like that...
    I definitely managed it.
    And I'm sure if you ask or even google how other athletes manage you'd see its possible.

    Besids even if it was 5.5kg of consumption, thats managable - the stomach can hold up to 3 litres I believe, and can take as little as an hour to empty.


    It does, actually...

    That's dependent on difficulty processing. Water will process quickly, complex carbs won't. I'm still calling bs on 6000cal a day. Did you actually consume 12.1lbs a day?

    Post your diet plan for review, if you don't mind.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 22, 2012 10:42 PM GMT
    It was a few years back but generally my day went like this:

    Cereal bar
    Morning training
    6 choc croissants, 3 fried eggs
    School
    Throughout the morning I'd usually manage another 3 cereal bars
    Lunch - Big bowl of pasta with some sort of sauce
    Afternoon - sandwich
    After school, some sort of cake and another sandwich
    Training
    Dinner usually huge bowl of pasta or potatoes, basically excessive carbs

    Following advice on diet by our nutritionists etc me and most of my teamates were hitting around 6000 calories a day.

    Its onestly possible! Not easy, but possible.

    Seriously just look at what proper top end athetes are doing - Phelps was infamous for 12,000 calories a day - in your math 11 kilos a day. Top end swimmers are required to acheve about 6000 cals in guys, about 4500 in girls. In fact just watch those shows about fat people - they manage 6000 plus easily!
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Nov 22, 2012 10:46 PM GMT
    surfswim saidIt was a few years back but generally my day went like this:

    Cereal bar
    Morning training
    6 choc croissants, 3 fried eggs
    School
    Throughout the morning I'd usually manage another 3 cereal bars
    Lunch - Big bowl of pasta with some sort of sauce
    Afternoon - sandwich
    After school, some sort of cake and another sandwich
    Training
    Dinner usually huge bowl of pasta or potatoes, basically excessive carbs

    Following advice on diet by our nutritionists etc me and most of my teamates were hitting around 6000 calories a day.

    Its onestly possible! Not easy, but possible.

    Seriously just look at what proper top end athetes are doing - Phelps was infamous for 12,000 calories a day - in your math 11 kilos a day. Top end swimmers are required to acheve about 6000 cals in guys, about 4500 in girls. In fact just watch those shows about fat people - they manage 6000 plus easily!


    I'm wondering how much is absorbable in that time, unless its all simple sugars.

    But 4cal/g is the caloric density for carbs and protein, and 9cal/g for lipids. So 12000 cal would weigh 3kg dry weight, assuming all carbs and protein.
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    Nov 22, 2012 10:53 PM GMT
    I'm not gonna argue about the science you're quoting, but we defs managed it! Whether we absorbed it all is debatable, but our calorie expenditure was ridiculous. 4 hours in water a day, plus every 2nd day an extra hour in gym, plus a full day of school.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 22, 2012 11:05 PM GMT
    It sure seemed like I could "process" more food when I was riding long miles. Big plates of pasta and such that I could barely make a dent in normally. Otherwise, I've never even been able to choke down 2000 calories without resorting to shakes and stuff.

    I did know a guy with a great physique who really shoveled it down though. (Looked roughly like Taylor Lautner only much bigger.) He basically carried a rucksack full of food around with him everywhere and ate every hour or so. The guy would run five miles to work with that backpack swinging behind him. Then lifted for a couple of hours after work or went mountain biking. I took him on a couple of weekend trips and pretty much every spare moment, it seemed like he was either eating or brushing and flossing his teeth.

    I'm not sure how much heat that body put out, but I do recall him mentioning that he didn't need hot water to shower.
  • tiger13

    Posts: 49

    Nov 23, 2012 7:52 PM GMT
    Apex0111 said
    tiger13 said
    paulflexes saidSome people think it's cute when hot guys don't know they're hot.

    I think it's kinda sad.


    Ouch, I think you're reading something into it that isn't here.

    This was not an "omg i feel fat" post.


    I have seen Paulflexes on a few other posts. Don't be offended by it, it's just his way. You learn to... well, he's really a nice...


    LOL understood :-)


    Apex0111 said
    Anyways, I kind of see what he's saying. You are already super fit (or seem to be) and extremely hot. Why do you feel the need to change?


    I understand the question, but that's why I posted this in the body building forum instead of another forum.

    How to articulate. Hmm.

    This is a project? Can I do it? A challenge? It's fun and satisfying to put some work/engineering into it with a result that I get to live with every minute of every day? Hard to describe. Change is fun.
  • tiger13

    Posts: 49

    Nov 23, 2012 7:54 PM GMT
    surfswim saidWhen I was competin gat a high level I was on 6000 calories a day - no shakes. My jaw hurted from eating all the time haha


    Jesus. Lol.
  • tiger13

    Posts: 49

    Nov 23, 2012 7:55 PM GMT
    Roguewave saidI have tried exactly what you said, and what happened is I got "thick" and did not like the fact I wasn't as defined. My BF% went up just slightly, but all thise extra calories made me retain water, hence the "thick" or "bloated" look. Give it a try, your body, as lean as it is, could probably handle it. Anyway, it's not that hard to burn it back down...


    See, that's what I'm worried about. I already feel like I'm "soft" (yes, even though my abs and some veins show) - I am sure this is partly from the high amount of carbs in my diet.