In What Ways do You Think Outside the Box?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 22, 2012 12:06 AM GMT
    sheeple.jpg?w=500
    I'm a little concerned at how few people I meet are able to think for themselves anymore. Although I don't want to see this turn into a political debate, I think an individual's personal politics can be a great indicator of the degree they are able to think for themselves. For example, you rarely meet a Conservative who's Pro-Gay, just as it's equally rare to meet a Progressive who is Pro-Life. It's like everyone has joined a club and automatically goes along with what everyone else in the group says is right or wrong.

    So how much of a Sheeple are you? In what ways do your thought processes drift from your peers?
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    Nov 22, 2012 12:09 AM GMT
    Well clearly I'm a sheeple. I do everything everyone tells me. Do you know how many n00dz I've sent out? Its fucking countless
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    Nov 22, 2012 12:18 AM GMT
    I think that being liberal, pro-choice & "pro-marriage-equality" (is that the right term) are somehow all interconnected. One needs to be educated, intelligent and empathetic to be able to afford the freedom & rights every human being is entitled to. To impose one's beliefs onto others really shows how close minded one is. That's why being a conservative often entails being pro-life and anti-gay.
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    Nov 22, 2012 12:20 AM GMT
    I'm an extremely aggressive Liberal, but Liberals are usually know for being peaceful or whatever.
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    Nov 22, 2012 12:22 AM GMT
    sweetyork saidTo impose one's beliefs onto others really shows how close minded one is.
    Yeah, that's what seperates me from most liberals. If I had kids and they asked about god, I'd tell them that all human religions are complete bull and they'd be stupid to believe in that shit.
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    Nov 22, 2012 12:57 AM GMT
    I've always felt pretty differently from my peers. I usually take the time to look at a situation and think critically about it. I like hearing what other people have to say but it's very important to form your own opinion about topics.

    I also feel as a gay male I'm not really into the bar/club scene. I guess I couldn't be even if I wanted to (I'm 20), but I'm much more into gaining close friendships/relationships opposed to fucking around.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Nov 22, 2012 1:11 AM GMT
    I don't agree with everything everybody says but you have to side with someone so I side with those that are close to my own views
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    Nov 22, 2012 1:11 AM GMT
    sweetyork saidI think that being liberal, pro-choice & "pro-marriage-equality" (is that the right term) are somehow all interconnected. One needs to be educated, intelligent and empathetic to be able to afford the freedom & rights every human being is entitled to. To impose one's beliefs onto others really shows how close minded one is. That's why being a conservative often entails being pro-life and anti-gay.



    You make a good point, and I agree with you. But let's take abortion rights for example....I've never heard another Progressive person express any concern for the fetus that gets no choice in the matter. And for a group of people who are so concerned with "rights", it's always bothered me that they show no concern for the fetus. (Don't get me wrong - I'm very damn liberal, but this is one of those areas I think people just go along with because the rest of the club says to.)
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    Nov 22, 2012 2:28 AM GMT
    Be careful, groups don't like individual opinions.....
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    Nov 22, 2012 2:29 AM GMT
    i would challenge anyone to find a total conservative or a total liberal....we are all a mixed breed.
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    Nov 22, 2012 2:41 AM GMT
    Robert Frost said, "You have freedom when you're easy in your harness."


    I have freedom to make choices today based not on what I know but on what I don't know. That is critical thinking, free thinking, and thinking outside the box because what I don't know is endless.
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    Nov 22, 2012 3:01 AM GMT
    deltalimen saidRobert Frost said, "You have freedom when you're easy in your harness."


    I have freedom to make choices today based not on what I know but on what I don't know. That is critical thinking, free thinking, and thinking outside the box because what I don't know is endless.


    I couldn't have put it any better!
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    Nov 22, 2012 3:19 AM GMT
    There's a box? icon_confused.gif
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 22, 2012 4:24 AM GMT
    Ok, I'll bite:

    I do not believe we live in a Democracy (or, more accurately, a Republic) but rather a form of fascist plutocracy. By 'fascist' I mean government (primarily) at the service of corporate interests. And by 'plutocracy', I mean a government primarily at the service of a wealthy and powerful elite. In other words, the real structures of power that govern us and set fundamental domestic and foreign policy are NOT elected and can not be removed from power by electoral means.

    Most of the political issues that divide 'right' from 'left', 'conservative' and 'liberal' or 'progressive', 'gay' from 'straight', the 'religious' from the 'atheist' and 'agnostic' etc. ad nauseam, are contrived issues. They serve the function of fooling people into believing that there are fundamental differences between large segments of our population (and, thus, we are forever disunited). Moreover, these contrived issues allow those running the political dog and pony show to both rally and frighten their constituents. This keeps the proletariat busy fighting one another, volunteering to help whatever candidate they *think* best represents their POV if not interest, and keeps them donating money to prevent whatever they politically fear most from happening. The one thing the fascist plutocracy of this country does NOT want is for the rest of the 99% to see through their little charade, and unite in one cause AGAINST those who are pulling the strings.

    Finally, I do not believe -- I know for a fact -- that the events of 9/11/01 were orchestrated and carried out from within the US Military-Intelligence-Industral-Banking-Government Complex. I had been anticipating an event of this nature for at least 18 months prior to it. 9/11/01 was, in fact, stage two (stage 1 being the false installation of a chimpanzee in the White House) of a policy coup détat, often referred to as "a palace coup."

    It set in motion neoconservative (PNAC) military and foreign policy agendas that had been spelled out clearly in a White Paper published in September of 2000 entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century." (PDF) According to this document, America must:
    * Reposition permanently based forces to Southern Europe, Southeast Asia and the Middle East;
    * Modernize U.S. forces, including enhancing our fighter aircraft, submarine and surface fleet capabilities;
    * Develop and deploy a global missile defense system, and develop a strategic dominance of space;
    * Control the "International Commons" of cyberspace;
    * Increase defense spending to a minimum of 3.8 percent of gross domestic product, up from the 3 percent currently spent.

    As well as many other things, including research and development of GENE SPECIFIC, bio-weapeons. Rebuilding America's Defenses became the central document that defined U.S. foreign policy after the selection of GWB. On page 52 the document itself explains, "the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor." That "catalyzing event" was 9/11.

    The entire (so called) "War on Terror" is nothing but a justification for imperial resource wars (on the international front), and justification for eroding Constitutional rights and implementing a permanent, super-surveillance society (on the domestic front).

    Out of the box enough for ya?

    ETA: The bald guy is me. The young blond guy is one of my best friends.

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    Nov 22, 2012 4:35 AM GMT
    "In the case of any person whose judgment is really deserving of confidence, how has it become so? Because he has kept his mind open to criticism of his opinions and conduct. Because it has been his practice to listen to all that could be said against him; to profit by as much of it as was just, and expound to himself, and upon occasion to others, the fallacy of what was fallacious. Because he has felt, that the only way in which a human being can make some approach to knowing the whole of a subject, is by hearing what can be said about it by persons of every variety of opinion, and studying all modes in which it can be looked at by every character of mind. No wise man ever acquired his wisdom in any mode but this; nor is it in the nature of human intellect to become wise in any other manner."

    "However unwillingly a person who has a strong opinion may admit the possibility that his opinion may be false, he ought to be moved by the consideration that, however true it may be, if it is not fully, frequently, and fearlessly discussed, it will be held as a dead dogma, not a living truth."

    "To refuse a hearing to an opinion, because they are sure that it is false, is to assume that their certainty is the same thing as absolute certainty. All silencing of discussion is an assumption of infallibility".

    -J.S. Mill


    I fucking love this guy. Reading Mill is the reason I can argue with anyone and never get angry or feel morally defeated. This site is famously hive mind. I have found some great people to talk to that share my mindset and are waaay to the left of me that I still enjoy speaking with. In the military, I have figured out how to excel professionally while not losing myself in the process which happens to so many people who wind up bitter and nasty. I just live every day like its do-what-you-want day and things are going pretty good!
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    Nov 22, 2012 4:39 AM GMT
    Lucifer was allegedly the original rebel.
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    Nov 22, 2012 4:39 AM GMT
    I give away the keys to everything I think with every post. Don't have time to write a tl;dr when understanding is enough.
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Nov 22, 2012 6:07 AM GMT
    A very interesting post.

    My social/political views could most accurately be described as Left/Green, but I do find on a number of issues, they veer towards a more mixed up, or even conservative hue.

    Even among other gay men I`ve always felt the outsider in my views, values, etc.

    Here are some of my views that aren`t in the above 'box', and I`ve thought of a lot over the years:

    Most of my gay friends are highly individualistic and pro-rights, marriage equality, etc. which I share to some degree, but unlike them, I`m more concerned about social responsibility and society generally. I have a lot of qualms about where militant individualism is leading us, for example, assisted dying, which I find very disturbing in its implications. Most people here seem to agree with the 'right to die', etc.

    On the question of children and families, I find I`m rather conservative compared to many of the people I know. The collapse of the family in the UK and other western societies is the great social disaster of our times(even as alternatives begin to re-form.)

    On religious matters, even though I`m an atheist, I find myself curiously sympathetic to those of faith and how equality laws in the UK could criminalize their conscience(even if it is discriminatory towards gay men, etc.!) In this I find myself at odds with a lot of my gay friends who have more negative views of religion. In arguments with them I find myself defending the religious 'nutters'!

    I`m not materialistic like a lot of my peers, even seeing the whole consumptive ideology of western society as ultimately destructive of older, more valuable things like family, privacy, nature, even democracy itself; and exacting quite a toll on us individually and socially. I`m highly skeptical of this medium as any net gain to society.

    Some of these views may be explained by my background of a traditional, happy, large family with two Christian parents who showed me the best of religion rather than the worst.

    Many of these views are contradictory and I`ve yet to work out a consistent philosophy. That may be impossible, though, I admit. The best I can hope for is to make progress on them!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 22, 2012 6:20 AM GMT
    Let's see I am out of the box in many context. I believe in existentialism.........the passionate feeling of being alive and be able to express your immediate thoughts without social restriction (as long as it doesn't offend any one).

    My behaviors are governed by belief of justice and kindness. I don't like to drink or smoke. I believe that human are fragile beings......no matter how tough you are, it is a cover and a defensive mechanism to protect yourself.


    That sounds kinda out of the box for people my age I think.
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    Nov 22, 2012 7:01 AM GMT
    On issues of importance, I try to read widely and from a variety of viewpoints. I adhere to my grandfather's advice to 'form your own opinion'. I regularly read a newspaper that my peers describe as 'right-wing biased' as a challenge to my own centre-left bias; meanwhile, they consume newspapers and media that reflect their own biases.

    In terms of Australian issues, I hold a number of unpopular viewpoints: I am for onshore processing of asylum-seekers and the opening of asylum processing centres in SE Asia to meet asylum-seekers before they make contact with people smugglers; I support our constitutional monarchy, am suspicious of the push to make Australia a republic, and believe that our constitution works fairly well; I don't think encouraging more people into higher education is a good thing; I'm against Australia having a bill of rights because I think it will empower our unelected judiciary drawn from the elites of the commercial Bar over the democratic voice of Parliament; I think universities are no longer such and are more like degree factories; I support allowing abortion but with limitations according to gestation period (e.g. before the foetus becomes viable); and so on.

    The two regrettable instances in which I've been a sherson were accepting the myth that studying law was necessary to 'get a good job' and joining Facebook.
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    Nov 22, 2012 7:37 AM GMT
    I consider myself someone who thinks outside the box and thinks on a deeper level with certain topics. I find only a certain select people have this ability, most of us like you say just follow on with the majority and it's almost as if the way society has moulded them into being a certain way.

    As an example my parents are very "money orientated," very conservative, very much more about not standing out but rather doing what is deemed socially acceptable. I on the other hand look at the bigger picture. I might not be earning as much as them at this stage but I have travelled, I have flexibility with work, I mentor students free, I do volunteer activities here and there. I do all this out of goodwill and because I see meaning in them. They can't see that.

    Another example would be my travels alone. A lot of my straight friends (just generalising here) are quite surprised that I can travel to a new country, no absoloutely no one and have the time of my life. They think that they could "never dine in a restaurant alone yet alone travel alone." They fail to look at the bigger picture in terms of personal development, stepping out of your comfort zone and experiencing new environments. Or maybe that just don't have the guts to do it! haha

    And yes as a gay male, I also find I am not your typical gay. Again generalising here but it's not all about going to the gym to get the six pack or about making money to buy fabulous things. I go to the gym for my health and wellbeing, I work my job because I love it and it never feels like work.

    I have quite strong mindsets about certain things and I do feel especially in Australia that my way of thinking is quite against the norm. Yet I always manage to compose myself and not let other people overly influence my ways of thinking.
  • Twenty_Someth...

    Posts: 1388

    Nov 22, 2012 12:11 PM GMT
    I prefer to wear my socks inside-out since the outside surface is smoother and has less random strings than the inside surface. I never get that annoying sock-foot at the end of the day, which is a result of all those uneven strings that are leftover from patterns on the inside.

    I also buy new clothing lines when they come out at full retail price. I save the receipt, buy the 50% off version about 2 months later and then return the discounted one with my original receipt. This way I pay the price I want to pay and get the clothing when it first comes out.

    Being a recent college graduate in this lovely economy I decided that the best person to work for was myself. Started a company and the rest is history...

    I broke out of the universe in a dream once and became an electromagnetic wave in some place outside this one icon_biggrin.gif



  • shutoman

    Posts: 505

    Nov 22, 2012 12:18 PM GMT
    A box can be any size or shape you want. Criteria of Left and Right, Conservative and Liberal are relatively new badges - and they have swapped between ideologies constantly.

    For instance - in the 19th Century welfarism was associated with the 'right' (such as Bismark who instituted the state pension) not the 'left'.

    I respect people whose views are coherent. That is: they tell me what their principles are and they think them through. I also, and equally, respect people who try to be coherent but who acknowledge that coherence is not easy or obvious and that parties exist to get things done.

    I support principles first and foremost. If the groups I support lose those principles they lose my support; but I will not reject them if I can see they are trying to get things done in the broader picture. Politics, perhaps life, is the art of the possible.

    For the same reasons, I am cautious about condemning people.