changing yourself

  • mizu5

    Posts: 2599

    Nov 24, 2012 8:35 PM GMT
    I feel like its time to start lying. I'm too femme, not masc enough and it makes me worthless and undateable. I went on a date with a guy recently only to be told I'm too feminine for a relationship, he didn't want to be seen out with me.

    I would rather be fake and happy than myself and miserable . I'm always not enough of something; tall enough, muscular enough, skinny enough. So I feel or it's time to buy clothes I don't like. It's time to drop dance soni have the money and time to go to the gym and get buff. I'm tired of being a placeholder for someone more, someone better.

    I'll go to the masculine bar and see how people act and interact. Cut my hair shorter, drop a "bro" or two. I'm tired of being me.

    So how how do I do it. What do I wear? How do I talk or alter my voice? What can I do to appeal to a broader spectrum of men? I've spent 21 years sticking out for various reasons. I'm not attractive, I'll never be the hot muscle boy or gorgeous guy next door, but for once in my life I'd like to fit in, not stand out. SoI ask, what would you do?


    I'm not even flaming, im just... not.. anything .
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    Nov 24, 2012 9:22 PM GMT
    Seriously? You seem like an awesome guy to me. If someone is worried about you being too fem, too masc, too this, too that, then they're honestly not worth your time.

    Be proud of who you are dude. Their was nobody like you in the past and there will be nobody like you in the future. You'll find faking things may work at first, but in the long run it's going to do nothing for you.

    PLUS YOU'RE FUCKING HOT AS HELL! GET OVER TO ALABAMA RIGHT NOW! icon_lol.gif
  • tautomer

    Posts: 1010

    Nov 24, 2012 9:24 PM GMT
    I have a feeling many people are going to say "Don't change who you are! You're good as you are". My guess is that is the last thing you want to hear, and aren't going to listen, so I'll give you a different perspective. I think what your seeking is just self-improvement, just taken a little too far.

    I'll give you one warning though: You can only "change" yourself so much. If you deviate too much from your core, problems can and will arise. I experienced this personally when I was 20, and I am never going to go that route again. I, like you, sought to make myself more "masculine" (although not exactly) because I was turned down by a guy who I fell hard for. I had to see a therapist for a number of months because I succeeded too well at changing my thoughts and behavior and had to go back who I am.

    With that said, this is not something that could happen over night. It will likely take years to change. I wouldn't look at it from the pint of view that you have either. It sounds like you want to take a dark painful path to make yourself a more ideal you. Think of it like learning new skills and ways of being. Add them to who you are, don't just delete what you already have, lest you lose the core of your identity which is not something you should do.

    How can this be done? I can't answer that. The best I can say is look for a few core ideals that you like in others, and slowly start to emulate that. integrate it into your persona. Over time things will shift around, slowly but surely. Just don't lose yourself in the process.

    You might need to ask yourself some questions you have never considered before, and this is the groundwork: why are you who you are? Why are you the way you are? Why have you chosen to have the identity you possess? Ask why to the core of yourself. It may be revealing yourself.

    I can't stress this enough though: You must remain true to yourself. You can't "change" your personality. You can only modify it slightly. You can learn new skills and way of being, but that's it. Overtime it will become seamless. Just don't lose yourself.
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    Nov 24, 2012 9:26 PM GMT
    mizu5 saidI feel like its time to start lying. I'm too femme, not masc enough and it makes me worthless and undateable. I went on a date with a guy recently only to be told I'm too feminine for a relationship, he didn't want to be seen out with me.

    I would rather be fake and happy than myself and miserable . I'm always not enough of something; tall enough, muscular enough, skinny enough. So I feel or it's time to buy clothes I don't like. It's time to drop dance soni have the money and time to go to the gym and get buff. I'm tired of being a placeholder for someone more, someone better.

    I'll go to the masculine bar and see how people act and interact. Cut my hair shorter, drop a "bro" or two. I'm tired of being me.

    So how how do I do it. What do I wear? How do I talk or alter my voice? What can I do to appeal to a broader spectrum of men? I've spent 21 years sticking out for various reasons. I'm not attractive, I'll never be the hot muscle boy or gorgeous guy next door, but for once in my life I'd like to fit in, not stand out. SoI ask, what would you do?


    I'm not even flaming, im just... not.. anything .
    You're only 21 - you have time - so you might try another persona for a while. But it probably won't take in the long run. So you're "fem." So what? There are tons of fem guys in relationships in the gay world. The entire artistic scene from fashion, to interior decoration, antiques, theatre is dominated by them. From what I have read, all of gay life pre-stonewall was fem. Just watch Boys in the Band. There are even bodybuilder jocks with fem partners, and some even themselves fem. Just not so many on a "jock" site, like RJ, but the real world is full of fem men and men who like them. I think trying to change yourself from "fem" (if that's what you really feel are) to butch, is like a gay guy trying to change himself to straight. Not having dates all the time at your age is not the end of the world.
    Besides - and you may not want to hear this - but you look very "cute" - and that is a big attraction factor.
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    Nov 24, 2012 9:28 PM GMT
    Okay - I'll bite.

    YOU may think you'll be happy not being yourself but it will eventually take it's toll on you and you'll be a miserable schmuck. Also, another guy will NOT appreciate you not being yourself. I know for af fact that more feminine guys get dates and can have happy and fulfilling relationships. You're just looking in the wrong places. That guy probably meant for him. He needs more of a mans man who will go out and shoot a deer with a bow and arrow and then cook it over a fire he built himself by striking a match off his palm.

    Point being: you can't change yourself to be happy with someone since you really won't be happy and neither will they. You certainly can't change your voice. You can change what you wear but thats your own prerogative. Look at any J crew magazine.

    Moving on to your body image: then do it. If it were up to me, everyone would be swim suit models. And thats all. Form your body to what you find attractive.
    .
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    Nov 24, 2012 9:30 PM GMT
    Another thing I want to add: it's important to realize the mindset you're in now. It won't last forever. You know that, I know that, and everyone knows that.

    Seriously think back to all your shitty situations. Do you know one thing they have in common? They've all passed.
  • mizu5

    Posts: 2599

    Nov 24, 2012 9:37 PM GMT
    the problem is though im not that fem. IM not good with fashion and music and makeup and shit. I'mnot good with hair.

    im this awful inbetween that nobody ever wants, except closet cases and 18 year old twinks who just came out, who, while they maybe be LOVELY people, are simply not what I am looking for in someone
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 24, 2012 9:38 PM GMT
    I agree with JumpMan, anyone who says you are too anything isn't worth bothering with. So far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong with the way you are now. Can you be more "buff" (or whatever?), well, yeah. But do YOU *want* to be for yourself? If not, it won't work for you.

    I am living proof a gay man doesn't have to be outstandingly handsome, buff or 'masculine' to have a loving LTR. I've had two! So maybe there is a deeper question here that doesn't have a lot to do with the way you look (which is fine, so far as I can tell) or your personality. Maybe you're fishing in the wrong water? Maybe you need to broaden your own scope of potential partners? Maybe you need to really think about whether or not you are READY for "partnership". 21 is very young in my book. You have lots of time to have fun and keep an eye out for someone special who'll love you for who you are, not who you think they want you to be.
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    Nov 24, 2012 9:41 PM GMT
    I don't think you should change a thing about yourself - unless you are doing it for you and only you.

    You say that you will become something you're not so that you can be happy.

    Well, trust me when I say, pretending to be something you're not will never make you happy. Happiness will come when you learn to value and love the person you already are.

    The happiness that will come from that is what will draw people to you.


    Stay strong.
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    Nov 24, 2012 9:41 PM GMT
    mizu5 saidthe problem is though im not that fem. IM not good with fashion and music and makeup and shit. I'mnot good with hair.

    im this awful inbetween that nobody ever wants, except closet cases and 18 year old twinks who just came out, who, while they maybe be LOVELY people, are simply not what I am looking for in someone


    It sounds like your date didn't get time to know you. His fault - not yours. I think going to the gym is a great idea you should stick to. Not only will you feel more confident in yourself, but you will also stimulate dopamine (the natural chemical in your body that produces happiness).
  • josephmovie

    Posts: 533

    Nov 24, 2012 9:43 PM GMT
    Don't worry about it. Be yourself as you are now. Sooner or later age will make you appear less femme anyway.
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    Nov 24, 2012 9:46 PM GMT
    You've experienced the rejection that everyone faces and loathes to go through ... and here you've heard some wonderful feedback from some really super guys about how they experience you.

    So ultimately it comes down to what you think about yourself. If your self esteem is based on the worst assumptions of people who don't know you, you're in for a real struggle.

    The choice is yours. Knowing the smarts of the guys up above me, I hope you'll make the right one.
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Nov 24, 2012 9:49 PM GMT
    If someone else is not comfortable around you (regardless of why) that is their problem. Regardless if it is because you have no sense of dress or because you just flashed them. The police might make the latter your problem- but that doesn't change the fact that it is their reaction, not yours.

    Altering yourself to make someone else happy (or even yourself) doesn't solve the underlying problems unless those changes are fundamentally altering you to a state that you are MORE comfortable in.

    Pretending to be something your are not is just a person finding a new closet to hid in.

    (and for what it is worth, I have no sense of clothing either...)
  • chris_hasting...

    Posts: 197

    Nov 24, 2012 9:51 PM GMT
    mizu5 saidI feel like its time to start lying. I'm too femme, not masc enough and it makes me worthless and undateable. I went on a date with a guy recently only to be told I'm too feminine for a relationship, he didn't want to be seen out with me.

    I would rather be fake and happy than myself and miserable . I'm always not enough of something; tall enough, muscular enough, skinny enough. So I feel or it's time to buy clothes I don't like. It's time to drop dance soni have the money and time to go to the gym and get buff. I'm tired of being a placeholder for someone more, someone better.

    I'll go to the masculine bar and see how people act and interact. Cut my hair shorter, drop a "bro" or two. I'm tired of being me.

    So how how do I do it. What do I wear? How do I talk or alter my voice? What can I do to appeal to a broader spectrum of men? I've spent 21 years sticking out for various reasons. I'm not attractive, I'll never be the hot muscle boy or gorgeous guy next door, but for once in my life I'd like to fit in, not stand out. SoI ask, what would you do?


    I'm not even flaming, im just... not.. anything .


    based on your pics you don't seem too femme, and lying isn't a very good idea, maybe toning down what you don't like about yourself, but don't outright fake it. and if you sound femme the bro will come out incredibly fake, i know a guy that tries it and it sticks out like a sore thumn.
    also, not attractive, you fishing for compliments? something? da fuq is wrong with you?

  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Nov 24, 2012 9:52 PM GMT
    hmm...this gives me an idea, maybe i should start a conversion therapy business to help self loathing fem guys get more butch.

    kind of like the "pray away the gay" counseling centres the christian nutters have,

    except i wouldn't "de-gay" you i'd just show you how to swear, walk masculinely, and which flannel, jeans, boots and shit to wear and, if you have the genetics growing a beard or heavy stubble always helps.

    christ, fuk that, i have only one piece of advise for you, you can't fake who you are, and if you try the only thing you succeed at is being a fraud. live truth.
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    Nov 24, 2012 9:53 PM GMT
    Don't let vain influences tempt you away from who you are at heart! I have had "I am too this, that or thee other" moments. I finally said to myself "FUCK THAT SHIT" I am me. If nobody would like to give me a chance then they can go to hell because I am AWESOME and AMAZING, if you get to know me. Ride out this mental storm, it too shall pass!!!
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    Nov 24, 2012 9:54 PM GMT
    mizu5 saidthe problem is though im not that fem. IM not good with fashion and music and makeup and shit. I'm not good with hair.

    Hair -What kind of hair to wear much depends on the face - go to a good hair place in a gay neighborhood, and ask the barber/hair stylist what would go well with your face. If suggests dying it blue, find another.
    Clothes - Get a friend with good taste to go clothes shopping with you, and give you advice on what looks good on you. In the meantime, get GQ or even the style magazine in the Saturday Wall Street Journal or Sunday NY Times, and see what is in. Like icebuckets said, get a JCrew catalog or, for the very butch look, LLBean.
  • Suetonius

    Posts: 1842

    Nov 24, 2012 10:00 PM GMT
    You've got the same advice from others - but it is hardly a new homily -
    Polonius to Laertes 400 years ago: This above all: to thine own self be true

    Don't fake it.
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    Nov 24, 2012 10:04 PM GMT
    If you honestly want my opinion on changing your appearance:

    Cut the hair to something more professional (not saying don't style it or cut it to a crew like I do), dye it something less...extreme and more natural. Ditch the v neck t shirts and get something thats more fitted. My sisters at a very young age (who are both shopaholics) lectured me on this: no v-necks unless it's a sweater which comes off professional and boy next door which you have the face of. T-shirts, button downs, polos. Dress in layers.
  • metatextual

    Posts: 774

    Nov 24, 2012 10:10 PM GMT
    I only met you once a few years ago at Pride, but I don't think you should change who you are: feel free to change yourself physically, become more buff if you so desire but don't change your true self. You seemed like a very confidant guy, so I don't know why guys wouldn't be in to you. Just chalk up the bad date to a bad date and nothing else.

  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Nov 24, 2012 10:11 PM GMT
    IceBuckets saidIf you honestly want my opinion on changing your appearance:

    Cut the hair to something more professional (not saying don't style it or cut it to a crew like I do), dye it something less...extreme and more natural. Ditch the v neck t shirts and get something thats more fitted. My sisters at a very young age (who are both shopaholics) lectured me on this: no v-necks unless it's a sweater which comes off professional and boy next door which you have the face of. T-shirts, button downs, polos. Dress in layers.


    somebody actually went there.....priceless
  • mizu5

    Posts: 2599

    Nov 24, 2012 10:12 PM GMT
    IceBuckets saidIf you honestly want my opinion on changing your appearance:

    Cut the hair to something more professional (not saying don't style it or cut it to a crew like I do), dye it something less...extreme and more natural. Ditch the v neck t shirts and get something thats more fitted. My sisters at a very young age (who are both shopaholics) lectured me on this: no v-necks unless it's a sweater which comes off professional and boy next door which you have the face of. T-shirts, button downs, polos. Dress in layers.
    ... my hair is blonde naturally any darker is ebcause I dye it.
    't wear VV-necks anymore
    and I don
  • TheAlchemixt

    Posts: 2294

    Nov 24, 2012 10:15 PM GMT
    Mizu if there is anything you need to change it is your outlook in life. Learn how to love yourself and everything else will follow. Someone will eventually love you for the person you are.
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    Nov 24, 2012 10:16 PM GMT
    mizu5 said
    IceBuckets saidIf you honestly want my opinion on changing your appearance:

    Cut the hair to something more professional (not saying don't style it or cut it to a crew like I do), dye it something less...extreme and more natural. Ditch the v neck t shirts and get something thats more fitted. My sisters at a very young age (who are both shopaholics) lectured me on this: no v-necks unless it's a sweater which comes off professional and boy next door which you have the face of. T-shirts, button downs, polos. Dress in layers.
    ... my hair is blonde naturally any darker is ebcause I dye it.
    't wear VV-necks anymore
    and I don

    So that color is natural? It's very vibrant. See what happens when I try to tap into my inner gay-stylist. icon_redface.gif

    I'll be quiet now.
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    Nov 24, 2012 10:20 PM GMT
    I will propose two questions and only two: Why would you ever want to be with someone (friends or relationship) who only likes you because you are "pretending" to be someone else? Do you honestly think that you would be self-satisfied?

    You can't be too fem, too masculine, too short, too tall...you can only be YOU! For better or for worse, I want my BF/Friends to love me for me! I am sure you are as beautiful as the next, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.