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Hot and bothered: Global greenhouse-gas emissions and current trends - Climate Change

  • metta8 Posts: 23152
    QUOTE Nov 26, 2012 8:02 PM GMT
    Global greenhouse-gas emissions and current trends




    http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/11/daily-chart-20?fsrc=scn/gp/wl/dc/hotandbothered


    A National Strategy for Advancing Climate Modeling
    http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=13430

    Climate Modeling
    http://www.nas-sites.org/climatemodeling/




    https://act.forecastthefacts.org/signup/climate_ftf_signup/?source=fbdrought
  • metta8 Posts: 23152
    QUOTE Nov 28, 2012 3:25 AM GMT
    Global Warming Threat: Permafrost Thawing Across Siberia And Alaska Poses New Concern, UNEP Reports

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/global-warming-permafrost-thaw-siberia_n_2196876.html







  • Medjai Posts: 2671
    QUOTE Nov 28, 2012 3:35 AM GMT
    Unless you can convince the third world companies, and curtail the mass production of meat, coupled with deforestation and decimation of marine life, things are not looking up.
  • RollDontWalk Posts: 186
    QUOTE Nov 28, 2012 3:45 AM GMT
    Agreed. I think it's already too late to do anything meaningful about this as the unstoppable progression of economic growth/globalisation has too much inertia.
    All economic growth can be traced back to digging millions of years' worth of energy out of the ground and releasing it as heat into the atmosphere over the duration of a few centuries.

    It's happening, and it's scary to think about.
  • metta8 Posts: 23152
    QUOTE Nov 28, 2012 6:30 AM GMT
    Lamar Smith, Global Warming Skeptic, Set To Chair House Science Committee

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/lamar-smith-global-warming-house-science_n_2200408.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Nov 28, 2012 6:34 AM GMT
    Blaming the third world is the best solution. I agree.
  • RollDontWalk Posts: 186
    QUOTE Nov 28, 2012 11:09 AM GMT
    cbslove saidBlaming the third world is the best solution. I agree.

    My agreement was with the "things are not looking up" statement, not the "third world" part. They are a big part of the problem, but no fault of their own they are just following the lead of the developed countries in improving their own standard of living.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Nov 28, 2012 5:17 PM GMT
    I didn't even read ur post
    I read only Mr Medjai's. I wonder why he left the 'First' world out of the pollution thing.

    In any case, I think there should be free transfer of green technology which will be for the good of everyone on this planet. We all need to reduce per capita energy consumption. But expecting *everyone* to behave in a morally, ecologically right manner is being too much of an optimist. So governments and law have to take the task in hand.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Nov 28, 2012 5:25 PM GMT
    Solution to global warming: More air conditioners.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Nov 28, 2012 5:43 PM GMT
    Future generations will not look kindly at us. Our inability to agree on basic science is a damning indictment of our society.
  • metta8 Posts: 23152
    QUOTE Nov 29, 2012 1:19 AM GMT
    Sea Levels Rising Faster Than Projected

    http://www.livescience.com/25097-sea-levels-rising-faster-ipcc.html?cid=dlvr.it
  • Medjai Posts: 2671
    QUOTE Nov 29, 2012 1:27 AM GMT
    cbslove saidI didn't even read ur post
    I read only Mr Medjai's. I wonder why he left the 'First' world out of the pollution thing.

    In any case, I think there should be free transfer of green technology which will be for the good of everyone on this planet. We all need to reduce per capita energy consumption. But expecting *everyone* to behave in a morally, ecologically right manner is being too much of an optimist. So governments and law have to take the task in hand.


    I didn't. Ours primarily comes from different sources, which I mentioned... Especially in Canada, we produce more greenhouse effect due to animal production. Methane is a very, very effective greenhouse gas, and feedlots, as well as landfills for that matter, produce large amounts of them.

    However, combustion pollution, as well as oceanic pollution, is still primarily affected by third world. And yes, based on individual income and living conditions, China is third world.

    And thank you for mentioning that reduction of energy use, not greener production, is key.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Nov 29, 2012 6:36 AM GMT
    Medjai said


    And thank you for mentioning that reduction of energy use, not greener production, is key.


    Caught me
  • ZacktheMan Posts: 340
    QUOTE Nov 29, 2012 4:26 PM GMT
    Medjai said<

    Methane is a very, very effective greenhouse gas, and feedlots, as well as landfills for that matter, produce large amounts of them.

    However, combustion pollution, as well as oceanic pollution, is still primarily affected by third world. And yes, based on individual income and living conditions, China is third world.

    And thank you for mentioning that reduction of energy use, not greener production, is key.


    Yes, Methane is a very effective greenhouse gas. However, rain is extremely effective in removing methane from our atmosphere. Methane can not accumulate in our atmosphere to any significant degree, therefore it is not capable of being the cause of Global Warming on planet Earth.

    Carbon Dioxide is a very weak greenhouse gas.

    The number one source for Global warming and Global Cooling is our Sun. Our Sun caused the 1,000 + years Roman Warm period - which was much warmer than the Medieval Warm Period, and the Medieval Warm Period was significantly warmer than today. The actual increases in Temperatures lead to population explosions, food in abundance as the warming extended the growing season and more misture in the atmosphere. And the increase in Green plants helped reduce CO2. Lands toward the Earth's Poles and all other northern lands became greener.

    Reduced radiation from the Sun in the past caused the Great Ice ages here on Earth. The temperatures of other planets in our Solar system warm up and cool down at the same time as the Earth's variation. Thus you can not blame people for the warming variations of our planet.

    The Earth also resist temperature changes. When the Earth gets warmer, it puts out more H2O into the atmosphere, blocking the sun rays. This causes Planet Earth get greener, which reduces the Global Warming effects caused by the Sun.

    During the Medieval Warm Period, the Earth was quite a bit warmer than today, and caused by the Sun's increased radiation output. During this period, The Earth became greener. Populations rapidly increased around the world, The Artic Ocean's Ice Cap drastically receded, Chinese ships sailed over Canada to the Atlantic Ocean and have maps of their Journey.

    Greenland was Green, at least all around it's coast. The Vikings had cities on both east and west coast, and on the West Coast of northernmost Greenland was a Viking settlement. Viking artifacts have been found on the West Coast of the N. America, by land As Far as Minnesota, and as far west as San Francisco, along with remnants of Viking Ships.

    In Europe: Sweden, Norway, Poland, and England became World Powers due to population increases caused by Global Warming increasing planting seasons and better and more crops.

    When the Little Ice Age Came, the Vikings, Swedes, and the Poles (Cossacks), all ceased to be world powers. England managed to stay a World Power through trade, invention, and colonialism. Germany could no longer produce wine. They switched to Beer!

    See also: http://www.oism.org/pproject/

    Read what Real Scientists say about Global Warming rather than what the Mass Media and government manipulators are trying to sell the public.

    Well, my friends,
    Ya got trouble,
    Right here in River City!
    With a capital "T"
    And that rhymes with "G"
    And that stands for Gobal Warming!
    We've surely got trouble!
    Right here in River City!

    Trouble, Trouble, Trouble, Trouble ...
  • metta8 Posts: 23152
    QUOTE Nov 29, 2012 5:05 PM GMT
    Bill O'Reilly-watching climate-change-denier is moved to tears by polar melting documentary



    http://boingboing.net/2012/11/28/bill-oreilly-watching-climat.html

    Chasing Ice
    http://www.chasingice.com/about-the-film/synopsis/

  • Hawk_Guy13 Posts: 366
    QUOTE Nov 29, 2012 5:09 PM GMT
    "Yes, Methane is a very effective greenhouse gas." - True

    "However, rain is extremely effective in removing methane from our atmosphere. Methane can not accumulate in our atmosphere to any significant degree, therefore it is not capable of being the cause of Global Warming on planet Earth."

    - Not quite. Methane has an atmospheric lifetime of roughly 12 years. Estimates indicate that during a 20 year time frame that mass for mass methane is 72 times more potent of a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, and 25 times greater on a 100 year span. Invariably methane will break down in the atmosphere to carbon dioxide and water, so it will remain a problem for quite some time even after it is no longer methane.

    Furthermore, there have been periods in earth's history, early on of course, where methane was more prevalent in the atmosphere than oxygen. It is during this period when the first life on earth started to develop.

    The real question is what will happen if and when the earth's temperature rises such that the huge deposits of methane deep in the oceans and buried under permafrost begin to leach into the atmosphere.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Nov 29, 2012 5:10 PM GMT
    We're fucked.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Nov 29, 2012 5:19 PM GMT
  • metta8 Posts: 23152
    QUOTE Nov 29, 2012 5:25 PM GMT
    Scientific opinion on climate change

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
  • ZacktheMan Posts: 340
    QUOTE Nov 29, 2012 7:37 PM GMT
    Hawk_Guy13 said"Yes, Methane is a very effective greenhouse gas." - True

    "However, rain is extremely effective in removing methane from our atmosphere. Methane can not accumulate in our atmosphere to any significant degree, therefore it is not capable of being the cause of Global Warming on planet Earth."

    - Not quite. Methane has an atmospheric lifetime of roughly 12 years. Estimates indicate that during a 20 year time frame that mass for mass methane is 72 times more potent of a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, and 25 times greater on a 100 year span. Invariably methane will break down in the atmosphere to carbon dioxide and water, so it will remain a problem for quite some time even after it is no longer methane.

    Furthermore, there have been periods in earth's history, early on of course, where methane was more prevalent in the atmosphere than oxygen. It is during this period when the first life on earth started to develop.

    The real question is what will happen if and when the earth's temperature rises such that the huge deposits of methane deep in the oceans and buried under permafrost begin to leach into the atmosphere.


    Dear Hawk Guy

    Yes, there is always Methane in our atmosphere, It is not accumulating, rain washes it out.

    The lifespan of Methane in the atmosphere is 8.4 years.

    As the globe warms, Humidity will increase in the atmosphere, causing rainstorms and more powerful storms, which would expedite the removal of methane from the atmosphere and reduce the lifespan of Methane.

    The chemicals bromine and iodine oxide over the ocean produced by sea spray and emissions from phytoplankton, attack the ozone, breaking it down, producing a chemical that attacks and destroys the greenhouse gas methane.

    There is a balance in earth's make-up that aids and favors life.

    There were two published peer reviewed science papers by Physicists in the 1990's that demonstrated that rain washes Methane effectively from our atmosphere. If I find them, I will reference them.

    As for your suggestion that the origin of life and all living organisms arised via the Laws of Physics and chance: science says no to that.

    BTW, welcome to this forum - Hawk_Guy 13, I'm pleased to meet you. My views are just that, My views. I wish you much happiness in your life.




  • Hawk_Guy13 Posts: 366
    QUOTE Nov 30, 2012 1:51 AM GMT
    "Yes, there is always Methane in our atmosphere, It is not accumulating, rain washes it out."

    Yes it is accumulating. There are data trends that show methane levels accumulating in the atmosphere. I have not seen research performed to determine what the maximum carrying levels would be, but the fact is that methane can and does accumulate in the atmosphere. If levels today are higher than they were in years past, that is by definition accumulation. Rain does not "wash out" methane because methane is not particularly soluble in water. The primary method of removal of methane is oxidation via an OH radical into products which are more soluble in water. Those products are water (which is 100% soluble in water) and carbon dioxide, which is slightly more soluble in water than methane.

    I direct you to http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/enid/24y.html for a brief overview of the atmospheric chemistry going on to verify my position.

    "The lifespan of Methane in the atmosphere is 8.4 years."

    No, it is 12 years. I have seen many sources that verify this. Here is but one http://epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/ch4.html

    "As the globe warms, Humidity will increase in the atmosphere, causing rainstorms and more powerful storms, which would expedite the removal of methane from the atmosphere and reduce the lifespan of Methane."

    No. Sunlight reacts with ozone to form molecular oxygen and an oxygen radical. This is the rate limiting step of the total reaction. The oxygen radical then reacts with water vapor to form 2 OH radicals (It will actually react with whatever it comes in contact with first as it is highly reactive.). The OH radicals will then oxidize methane. Since the formation of the oxygen free radical is the rate limiting step, however, a higher concentration of water vapor in the atmosphere will have no effect on the reaction kinetics.

    "There is a balance in earth's make-up that aids and favors life."

    This implies that the earth is self aware and has a hand in determining it's own fate. Pure speculation and psuedoscience at best.

    "There were two published peer reviewed science papers by Physicists in the 1990's that demonstrated that rain washes Methane effectively from our atmosphere. If I find them, I will reference them."

    I'd like to see them.

    "As for your suggestion that the origin of life and all living organisms arised via the Laws of Physics and chance: science says no to that."

    Umm... Though I never suggested anything of the sort, I'm pretty sure science could say nothing but that. Speaking purely scientifically, life can and does exist because when you examine the Thermodynamics it is possible for life to exist. Many people claim that entropy would make evolution impossible, but they misunderstand the laws of thermodynamics. You see, through utilization of outside energy it is possible for lifeforms to become more complex and organized, thus decreasing the entropy within a given system (organism). However, the overall entropy of the universe will increase as the energy utilized had to come from somewhere else. This is a simplistic explanation, but if you want something more in depth PM me.

    "BTW, welcome to this forum - Hawk_Guy 13, I'm pleased to meet you. My views are just that, My views. I wish you much happiness in your life."

    Thanks and likewise. However, in this particular case it is not a matter of views, rather it is a matter of facts, and everything I have presented can be verified.
  • Medjai Posts: 2671
    QUOTE Nov 30, 2012 2:04 AM GMT
    Hawk_Guy13 said

    Furthermore, there have been periods in earth's history, early on of course, where methane was more prevalent in the atmosphere than oxygen. It is during this period when the first life on earth started to develop.


    Oh my god, someone else who's aware of the Oxygen Catastrophe! Do me now!

    Also, thanks for running with this. I just couldn't bring myself to care enough.
  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Nov 30, 2012 2:24 AM GMT
    I Thought Global Warmed Was A Myth?
    Nothing Can scare me away from having a cute hairdue everyday!


  • Posted by a hidden member.Log in to view his profile
    QUOTE Nov 30, 2012 2:27 AM GMT
    RollDontWalk saidAgreed. I think it's already too late to do anything meaningful about this as the unstoppable progression of economic growth/globalisation has too much inertia.
    All economic growth can be traced back to digging millions of years' worth of energy out of the ground and releasing it as heat into the atmosphere over the duration of a few centuries.

    It's happening, and it's scary to think about.



    Uhh ok u need to stop because ur not cute or smart.
  • Medjai Posts: 2671
    QUOTE Nov 30, 2012 2:30 AM GMT
    THE00realmain saidI Thought Global Warmed Was A Myth?
    Nothing Can scare me away from having a cute hairdue everyday!




    Global warming is as widely accepted in the scientific community as evolution. (Which is, by the way, completely accepted as well.)