FtM with 2 questions: dating and the gym

  • matthieu17

    Posts: 101

    Nov 27, 2012 3:21 AM GMT
    Hi,
    Yes, I'm brand new, which might elicit groans and skepticism.
    This is a genuine set of questions and yes, I'm asking for myself. I've read through trans related threads here and didn't see these questions.

    I'm a gay-identified FtM (female to male transguy). Basically, I look and sound to those that interact with me like any other guy, the 'tell' would really be with my pants off. I have been hesitant to try to date but would like to. I want to get an idea of opinions on dating disclosure and also have a totally unrelated question related to locker room environments. Why here? Because y'all are athletic, active types and thus the kind of men to whom I'm attracted...

    1. What would your reaction be if you noticed an FtM in the locker room at your gym who had chest surgery but no lower body surgery? (I go to a primarily gay gym in SF with an unfortunate 'gang' shower setup. To date I shower there but do so quickly and during non-peak times and have a lightning fast shorts-towel-underwear & pants changing speed.)

    2a. If you were interested in a guy and it turned out that he was FtM, at what point would you expect him to disclose?

    2b. Would you be offended if you were hit on by a guy you later found out to be trans? I suppose a better question is 'would you go on a date with an athletic guy who was reasonably attractive and also trans'?

    Here goes nothing. Let the snark and answers begin...

    Addendum: 2b is almost irrelevant for me actually because I don't hit on guys. More often the case is in instances that I notice being hit on or cruised I get totally shy because I know I'm not what the guy expects in the anatomy department.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 27, 2012 3:25 AM GMT
    Welcome. This site isn't the best at trans issues, and I'm not really good at them myself, but you asked so I'll try to answer.

    matthieu17 saidHi,

    1. What would your reaction be if you noticed an FtM in the locker room at your gym who had chest surgery but no lower body surgery? (I go to a primarily gay gym with an unfortunate 'gang' shower setup. To date I shower there but do so quickly and only during non-peak times and have a lightning fast towel to underwear transition.)


    You're unusual, so you'd probably get some stares from those who think you're weird, some from guys who are intrigued or interested, and some would try hard not to look for fear of offending you.

    matthieu17 said2a. If you were interested in a guy and it turned out that he was FtM, at what point would you expect him to disclose?


    Right away.

    matthieu17 said2b. Would you be offended if you were hit on by a guy you later found out to be trans? I suppose a better question is 'would you go on a date with an athletic guy who was reasonably attractive and also trans'?
    No. Probably.
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    Nov 27, 2012 3:28 AM GMT
    Well, first, I admire your honesty and bravery for coming to these forums. Second there will probably be a few naysayers on here, but it's best to ignore them. If you feel like you are a man and identify as one then I guess you are more than welcome here.

    For your questions...

    1) I would be a little taken aback but I wouldn't be offended or anything.

    2) I would expect someone who is FtM to disclose themselves upfront. As a gay man, I'm attracted to men. This includes the penis. Friendship wise, it doesn't matter what your gender is, but sexually I would expect my partner to have the equipment to satisfy me as a gay man. And if I knew you were not able to do that, then it really changes the dynamics of the relationship.

    2B) I wouldn't be offended if a FtM hit on me but for the reasons above I wouldn't go on a date with one. Sorry. Though I'm sure some would.

  • matthieu17

    Posts: 101

    Nov 27, 2012 3:34 AM GMT
    Thanks. I appreciate your answers. I've looked around a bit here and know that there will be a range of real and sarcastic or offensive answers but I'm not particularly thin-skinned...

    These are questions that I've had for several years so if I can get any info it would be helpful. I can't ask my friends without disclosing or making them wonder why I'm asking.
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    Nov 27, 2012 3:34 AM GMT
    Welcome, I hope that you will enjoy the experience here

    Now for the snark and sarcasm
    Q1: almost nobody on here admits to looking at other guys in the locker room or shower, so nobody ever would notice and you are perfectly safe. Those that do look, would be to embarrassed to be found out a peeping Tom, so they wouldn't say anything either. About those that dare and complain just they you refused their advances....

    Q2: a come-on by a good looking guy is always appreciated. If it were for a hook up I'd expect disclosure before getting naked or when my awkward fumbling doesn't find anything down there.
  • matthieu17

    Posts: 101

    Nov 27, 2012 3:36 AM GMT
    jmusmc85 saidWell, first, I admire your honesty and bravery for coming to these forums. Second there will probably be a few naysayers on here, but it's best to ignore them. If you feel like you are a man and identify as one then I guess you are more than welcome here.

    For your questions...

    1) I would be a little taken aback but I wouldn't be offended or anything.

    2) I would expect someone who is FtM to disclose themselves upfront. As a gay man, I'm attracted to men. This includes the penis. Friendship wise, it doesn't matter what your gender is, but sexually I would expect my partner to have the equipment to satisfy me as a gay man. And if I knew you were not able to do that, then it really changes the dynamics of the relationship.

    2B) I wouldn't be offended if a FtM hit on me but for the reasons above I wouldn't go on a date with one. Sorry. Though I'm sure some would.



    No need to apologize. Honest answers are what I'm looking for whether they favor me or not. I am well aware that I'm not going to be every guy's "cup of tea," you know. It's just a reality.
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    Nov 27, 2012 3:41 AM GMT
    showme saidWelcome. This site isn't the best at trans issues, and I'm not really good at them myself, but you asked so I'll try to answer.

    matthieu17 saidHi,

    1. What would your reaction be if you noticed an FtM in the locker room at your gym who had chest surgery but no lower body surgery? (I go to a primarily gay gym with an unfortunate 'gang' shower setup. To date I shower there but do so quickly and only during non-peak times and have a lightning fast towel to underwear transition.)


    You're unusual, so you'd probably get some stares from those who think you're weird, some from guys who are intrigued or interested, and some would try hard not to look for fear of offending you.

    matthieu17 said2a. If you were interested in a guy and it turned out that he was FtM, at what point would you expect him to disclose?


    Right away.

    matthieu17 said2b. Would you be offended if you were hit on by a guy you later found out to be trans? I suppose a better question is 'would you go on a date with an athletic guy who was reasonably attractive and also trans'?
    No. Probably.



    Welcome matthieu17,

    For the most part I agree with showme.

    Only one FtM that I encountered became physical (pants on). He was handsome, hairy, hott, and a great kisser (less aggressive kissing than I'm used to though). Only the second time I met him did I realize that he was FtM. I freaked out only a little and realized that I probably would never seriously date a FtM, it sure was fun playing (as long as his pants were on).

  • Pontifex

    Posts: 1882

    Nov 27, 2012 3:46 AM GMT
    1) I wouldn't even blink.

    2a) I would expect it as soon as I showed any sexual interest. Roughly at about the same time I'd expect a guy to tell me that he is married. heh.

    2b) I flirt wiith everyone so I wouldn't be offended. It just wouldn't sexually interest me so i wouldn't be interested in a date. I do have a couple of trans friends who are some of the most fun people I have ever hung out with so I'm used to being around them and the questions it can bring up. I'm amazed at how well they handle it every time.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 27, 2012 3:53 AM GMT
    1. I would probably stare for a bit (I think everyone would secretly). It's something new. It's something exciting. Think about the first time we saw another man's penis. Eventually the novelty will wear off. That is life.

    2a. I think that's a case-by-case situation. Being interested in someone doesn't mean you know them. It doesn't mean there will be an engagement. It doesn't even mean there will be a date. It's just a simple fantasy of "What would it be like?".
    There's things that are private and things that are secret. Often we get those confused. What you have between your legs is private, hence the name. If you were a married man taking a dick on the side-- that's a secret, and it will keep you sick.

    2b. I would not be offended. I have a FtM friend and a MtF friend. They are both beautiful people in so many ways. Love takes on many forms and shapes, so to define what love can and cannot be is rather oxy-moron.
    I suppose like the question states, a date doesn't mean anything. Maybe after ten dates, I would have to come to a conclusion about what I could accept and what I couldn't.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 27, 2012 4:06 AM GMT
    Wouldn't worry me in the slightest..

    Although my first question would be "can you wear a strap on"

    Otherwise I mostly top so as long as it feels good hahaha

    But it depends on the guy, I've fooled around with a trans guy before and he hadn't had the surgery so still had a vagina. He was cool with everything except me going anywhere near it. If I was to date a guy in that position well everything would need to be on the table pretty much cause I'd wanna go there.

    So really he'd have to be comfortable with who he is in pretty much all aspects.

    If he can do that then I sure as hell can be cool with the equipment he's packin!

    If I was to see you in the shower, I'd probably stair and get a hardon hahaha but I'd be doing that to a lot of guys (Thank gawd for cubicals!)
  • matthieu17

    Posts: 101

    Nov 27, 2012 4:35 AM GMT
    deltalimen said1. I would probably stare for a bit (I think everyone would secretly). It's something new. It's something exciting. Think about the first time we saw another man's penis. Eventually the novelty will wear off. That is life.


    I go to a very cruisey gym and I'm a little afraid of the staring. Just because I assume the staring would be a grossed out response. Thanks for putting a different perspective on this...
  • NHLFAN

    Posts: 370

    Nov 27, 2012 6:33 AM GMT
    Interesting questions you are asking. I've never considered anything like this before, so good that you are posting to get feedback from others. With that said...Here are my responses.

    1. What would your reaction be if you noticed an FtM in the locker room at your gym who had chest surgery but no lower body surgery? (I go to a primarily gay gym in SF with an unfortunate 'gang' shower setup. To date I shower there but do so quickly and only during non-peak times and have a lightning fast towel to underwear transition.)

    You would get a puzzled look at first and then it wouldn't bother me one bit after the initial reaction. If I saw you in the locker room another day it wouldn't be any different than all the other guys in there.

    2a. If you were interested in a guy and it turned out that he was FtM, at what point would you expect him to disclose?

    I'd expect it to be very quick and be upfront.

    2b. Would you be offended if you were hit on by a guy you later found out to be trans? I suppose a better question is 'would you go on a date with an athletic guy who was reasonably attractive and also trans'?

    No and No. I'm a gay man and would have no interest in going on a date.
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    Nov 27, 2012 6:37 AM GMT
    I would have no issue dating a man who was not biologically male. Sex would be an issue of course. But if I got to know him and I really liked him I'd either find something we both like or just go without sex.

    Also it would be best to let me know from the jump although I could understand why'd a Guy like this wouldn't disclose this at first. I'm very open and I wouldn't be too mad but I would feel like he respected me more as a person and as a rrational human being if he was honest up front about it.
  • matthieu17

    Posts: 101

    Nov 27, 2012 2:47 PM GMT
    Thanks gentlemen for your answers -
    showme, jmuscmc85, bhp91126, BuddyinNYC, Pontifex, deltalimen, lilTanker, NHLFAN, and MashogaNubianPrince:

    Y'all have provided more responses & better answers (with regard to quality of thought) than I thought I would receive. I really appreciate it.

    I'm actually surprised by your locker room answers. Most of you wouldn't care. I probably won't walk around like half the permanently naked guys who spend more time in the steam room and less on the floor, but I may start to consider that it's less of a big deal than I'm making it.

    On the dating front. Dating is a challenge for bio gay men dating one another, so I kind of expected the range of answers given. Thanks for your honesty.

    Off to the gym...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 27, 2012 2:57 PM GMT
    the best advice i ever got was:

    "when you are comfortable in your own skin, others will be comfortable with you"


    i'd expect someone to disclose to me at the point at which it was relevant. OTOH, the burden isn't all on you. people shouldn't assume that they are entitled to live in a world where everyone is cookie cutter and anything less common is under some duty to explain.

    you haven't committed any crime by being who you naturally are that entitles anyone to require anything of you unless it's relevant.

    looking for approval from other people gives them too much power over you.
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    Nov 27, 2012 3:05 PM GMT
    At the gymn , it would bother me at all ..
    As a friend , he would be welcome in my life
    As a lover , not so much , not that i mind seeing a women's vagina ( i was married for 22 years ) but a vagina on a man body would freak me out !! icon_eek.gif
  • Tread

    Posts: 39

    Nov 27, 2012 3:21 PM GMT
    1. I would most likely not notice you, since I tend not to look at the guys in the locker room, was always freaked out as young kid, that I would get a hard on if I stared at the classmates after sports. But if I did notice you, I would send you a friendly smile and let you get on with your business.

    2. As someone posted earlier on, when I start showing you sexual interest.

    3. Nope, hit away. I did date a FtM once, but we never progressed past the kissing stage, not sure how I would handle myself, if I started getting romantic feelings for the guy. I would hope that the FtM thing would not be an issue, but honestly I don't know how I would react.

    Anyway more power to you for asking questions.
  • matthieu17

    Posts: 101

    Nov 27, 2012 4:58 PM GMT
    RedWhiteBlue saidthe best advice i ever got was:

    "when you are comfortable in your own skin, others will be comfortable with you"


    i'd expect someone to disclose to me at the point at which it was relevant. OTOH, the burden isn't all on you. people shouldn't assume that they are entitled to live in a world where everyone is cookie cutter and anything less common is under some duty to explain.

    you haven't committed any crime by being who you naturally are that entitles anyone to require anything of you unless it's relevant.

    looking for approval from other people gives them too much power over you.


    Thank you - this is a good reminder for me.

    I feel pretty comfortable in my own skin 80-90% of the time now. The two realms about which I asked - dating and gyms are about the only contexts in which I continue to feel off-kilter and uncertain still. I feel pretty comfortable in the gay-o-sphere of San Francisco at large as long as I'm "stealth". It can be pretty frustrating because I'm more than five years past transition and haven't figured these things out.
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    Nov 27, 2012 6:16 PM GMT
    1. Honestly, I would freak out just a little bit to see a guy in the gym shower with no penis. You'd never know it, but inside I'd be quite taken aback. After the initial shock, I'd be okay--I think. We might find out since you and I go to the same gym. I promise to be polite. :-) To be honest, there's a lot of visually offensive bodies in that locker room. A preop FtM wouldn't be offensive, just novel.

    2a. Like some of the other guys here, I have to admit I like penis--I mean REALLY like penis. So if we're flirting, the sooner you disclose the better. If you're passing as a man, you can't blame people for assuming you have all-male "equipment." If you don't, it seems like the right thing to do to say so if things seem to be going that direction.

    2b. I wouldn't be offended if a transguy hit on me. It's like when anyone I'm not attracted to makes a move or flirts: it's not offensive, it's just that it's not reciprocated. Call me "gay," but I'm not interested in a physical relationship with a guy who can't have sex the way I like it (and that requires a penis).


    To be honest, I've always been fascinated by transfolk. I can't imagine feeling like you're in the wrong body and I so respect those who have the courage to be true to themselves and go through everything that goes with transition. And I respect those who can love a person no matter their genitalia. Big hearts, those guys/gals.

    I'm pretty sure I sound awkward, but I really hope I don't sound close-minded or insensitive. I know you want honest feedback and that's what I'm offering.

    See you at the gym?

    --Scott
  • matthieu17

    Posts: 101

    Nov 27, 2012 6:25 PM GMT
    SlickCalifornia said1. Honestly, I would freak out just a little bit to see a guy in the gym shower with no penis. You'd never know it, but inside I'd be quite taken aback. After the initial shock, I'd be okay--I think. We might find out since you and I go to the same gym. I promise to be polite. :-) To be honest, there's a lot of visually offensive bodies in that locker room. A preop FtM wouldn't be offensive, just novel.

    2a. Like some of the other guys here, I have to admit I like penis--I mean REALLY like penis. So if we're flirting, the sooner you disclose the better. If you're passing as a man, you can't blame people for assuming you have all-male "equipment." If you don't, it seems like the right thing to do to say so if things seem to be going that direction.

    2b. I wouldn't be offended if a transguy hit on me. It's like when anyone I'm not attracted to makes a move or flirts: it's not offensive, it's just that it's not reciprocated. Call me "gay," but I'm not interested in a physical relationship with a guy who can't have sex the way I like it (and that requires a penis).


    To be honest, I've always been fascinated by transfolk. I can't imagine feeling like you're in the wrong body and I so respect those who have the courage to be true to themselves and go through everything that goes with transition. And I respect those who can love a person no matter their genitalia. Big hearts, those guys/gals.

    I'm pretty sure I sound awkward, but I really hope I don't sound close-minded or insensitive. I know you want honest feedback and that's what I'm offering.

    See you at the gym?

    --Scott


    Thanks Scott. Yes, honest feedback is what I'm looking for. And I get where you're coming from. Because I read a male then of course a guy is going to assume that I have typical equipment. That's part of what prompted that particular question. The vast majority of transguys don't have lower surgery - something like 97%, I think. In my opinion since surgery doesn't result in the functionality and aesthetics that rest of you were born with, it's not even close to worth it.

    You probably wouldn't notice me at the gym. I always use the showers at the corners. icon_wink.gif
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    Nov 27, 2012 6:26 PM GMT
    1) I think it'd be a lie to say I wouldn't be surprised, but I try not to look at people's junk in the change room anyway - its not a bath house. But I'd be surprised if someone was wearing a hot pink thong too. Its just not what you expect to see but after the initial surprise I wouldn't care.

    2) I don't really know how to answer this one. I guess whenever he felt comfortable enough to disclose it. We all have things we don't want to discuss for fear of rejection.

    2) I don't think I would date ftm that wasn't fully done the surgery but only because I'm a big nelly btm and as other people have said, I really like penis icon_redface.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 27, 2012 6:42 PM GMT
    Roll the dice boy~


    No time like the present.


    I dont think there is the 'right time', take control of the situation and i dont think is a turn off. You are a man after all.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 27, 2012 6:47 PM GMT
    Living in L.A., there are very few things I haven't seen:

    1. I've seen an FtM in the gym locker room. I was taken aback and frankly, he caught me in mid-stare. But then I smiled and went about my business.

    2a-b. I have been attracted to trans men; and the first time I was, I had to ask myself, "Could I do a boy with a pu**y?" And for me, as a top, the answer was, "Yeah, sure."

  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 27, 2012 6:58 PM GMT
    Interesting questions and I'm glad you're getting good responses.

    1) I guess it depends on the gym but as a general rule guys only check one another out in the locker room very furtively. Glance, but don't stare is sort of the unwritten rule. Now, having said that, if I saw a man without a penis, I would try NOT to stare but I'd sure be surprised. Maybe even shocked. Not disgusted, just a bit weirded out. My brain would have to take that in and create new pathways of acceptance. But like others have said, if I saw you more than a few times I'd get used to it and not even think about it much beyond being proud of you for having the, erm... balls?

    2) Yep, as soon as it were appropriate.

    3) I am gay (not bi) and I love dick. That said, oddly enough, my first LTR was with a woman. We fell in love. Go figure. I was out to her from the beginning but we ended up living together for 10 years. Ultimately it didn't work out precisely *because* I want to be with a man, which includes the equipment. We're still best buddies, though.

    The answers your getting lead me to wonder... why would you want to date *gay* men, why not bi or straight men? Given the range of human sexuality I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find there are *straight identified* guys who would LOVE to have a relationship with a man who has a vagina. That might be a small demographic but I bet there is one.

    Also, you might like this little story from 20 years ago at the gym: I was doing some barbell curls in the weight room, watching my form in the mirror. Over to my right was a younger blond guy with a flat top in workout shorts, t shirt, etc., doing bench presses. He was quite cute so I was sort of checking him out in the mirror. He couldn't see me as he was facing the other way. Anyway, some minutes later this young woman comes in and starts talking with him. Obviously his girl friend. But then, all of a sudden it hit me, OMFG 'he' is a 'she'! I love it when shit like that happens to me. It just makes me smile and laugh at myself.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 27, 2012 6:58 PM GMT
    1) It would catch me off guard but really- I'm tall and don't look down there anyway, plus I have some trans- friends so it'd be like "whatever" in the end.

    2) Your adams apple (or lack thereof) gives it away in the end, so my answer is soon but not right away. Seriously- that's how I found out that I made out with a MtF at a bar once.

    3) I'd date one.