Question to Older Guys Who Have Been Working Out For Years

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 03, 2012 8:06 AM GMT
    I have a friend who is 33 and is starting to complain that he's getting that haggish-face look. He's about 5'10" 150 lbs. He typically weight trains twice a week and runs maybe 4 miles the other days (from what I hear).

    I suggested that if he gained about 15 lbs, some of that would go to his face, eliminating that runner's look that people get when all subcutaneous fat leaves your face. He doesn't like the idea because he loves his abs and likes his figure (he wants collagen injections instead, he jokes).

    Anyhow, my question is: Do you think it is healthier to gain weight and lose weight over time (ie go from a strength lifter, say with my stats, to an endurance athlete say with his stats, and back to a strength lifter, say every 5 years or so), or to maintain a weight overtime even though it no longer poses much stress to your body?

    My opinion is that physiological stress is bad and to be avoided if possible because you have a limited supply of repairability over a lifetime. That said, if anyone has different anecdotal experience, I'd be willing to hear. Obviously too much muscle limits your ability to have nice unstressful cardiovascular workouts (HIIT is a bit stressful, you have to admit and unless you swim a lot, then it doesn't matter because you can swim forever with low impact and you're in the horizontal position which makes it easier for your heart to pump minus less venous return from your legs due to less large muscle contraction), and the more muscular you are, the more resistance your heart has to pump through, therefore causing benign (I assume?) cardiac hypertrophy.

    If anyone understands what I'm thinking about, I'd like to hear your opinions. I don't think the scientific community knows the answer yet, so I am just throwing out theories.
  • joxguy

    Posts: 236

    Dec 03, 2012 4:27 PM GMT
    Not sure if I am hitting what you are asking. I have been working out at least three days a week since I was like 16. I have also over the years gained and lost weight, and have realized I am going to stay around 200 pounds no matter what I do.

    My working out has changed over the years. I used to run a lot, and then as I got older it started affecting my legs and knees. I transitioned from running, I do some swimming, but spend a lot of time now on the treadmill/bike/eliptic. Cardio is more important as you age.

    weights use to do max weight, then went down on weight but up on reps. Went from free weights to stand alone equipment to now cable with constant preasure on the pull and release.

    Now the big thing in my 60's is stretching, lots of it. Less weight but lots of constant presure reps.

    Last thing the weight in the face will come natural if he lets it and it will help with keeping a younger look.

    Hope this helps
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    Dec 03, 2012 4:54 PM GMT
    i think i get what you mean. it's easy to get so lean that your face starts to look unhealthy but your abs look great. since you're seeing your face in the mirror every day you don't notice that you're starting to look starved.

    i still think there's a balance there where you can find a spot that your body wants to be - for lack of a better phrase. i've found that it's pretty easy to stay stable at 175lbs and 9-11 percent body fat. sure, my abs aren't as great as when i'm 7-9 percent but i look much more healthy and i'm not balanced on that knife edge of fitness. at that low a percentage, it's easy to overdo it at the gym and have my body basically shut down and i get sick really easily.

    all that being said, i don't see any chance your friend is going to put on 15lbs of muscle when he weighs 150lbs. from how you characterize him, it sounds like he's got a really low body fat percentage. maybe it'd be more helpful to talk him into trying to gain about 2-5 percent? if he doesn't like it, it's not that hard to change his diet and exercise plan back to lose it again.
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    Dec 03, 2012 7:42 PM GMT
    Wow.. and he's only 33 yrs old? I'm with IMASRXD... 9-11% on the body fat.. I'm at about 11% myself (sometimes a bit over, especially this time of the year).... lot's of pasta.. (not hard being Sicilian..lol).. anyway, I gave up defined abs for that... I'd rather have a full and healthy face.. Too, I'm sure genetics may have some part in it.. But, having a sunken in or haggard face isn't worth having the abs... not for me, anyway..
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    Dec 03, 2012 8:03 PM GMT
    I have found that chemistry rules, specifically testosterone. So my workouts are kinda based on getting T up. Basically thats working large muscles intensely, short duration basically opposite of typical routine cardio workouts. Diet is Paleo with estrogen blocking foods.
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    Dec 03, 2012 8:16 PM GMT
    That haggish face is genetic. Not everyone hollows out the same. If he's hollowing out but hates the look...yeah, sure, injections.

    It's too bad he hates the look, though. Maybe a little facial hair will give him a smoother appearance.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3287

    Dec 03, 2012 9:02 PM GMT
    bluey2223 saidI have a friend who is 33 and is starting to complain that he's getting that haggish-face look. He's about 5'10" 150 lbs. He typically weight trains twice a week and runs maybe 4 miles the other days (from what I hear).

    I suggested that if he gained about 15 lbs, some of that would go to his face, eliminating that runner's look that people get when all subcutaneous fat leaves your face. He doesn't like the idea because he loves his abs and likes his figure (he wants collagen injections instead, he jokes).

    Anyhow, my question is: Do you think it is healthier to gain weight and lose weight over time (ie go from a strength lifter, say with my stats, to an endurance athlete say with his stats, and back to a strength lifter, say every 5 years or so), or to maintain a weight overtime even though it no longer poses much stress to your body?

    My opinion is that physiological stress is bad and to be avoided if possible because you have a limited supply of repairability over a lifetime. That said, if anyone has different anecdotal experience, I'd be willing to hear. Obviously too much muscle limits your ability to have nice unstressful cardiovascular workouts (HIIT is a bit stressful, you have to admit and unless you swim a lot, then it doesn't matter because you can swim forever with low impact and you're in the horizontal position which makes it easier for your heart to pump minus less venous return from your legs due to less large muscle contraction), and the more muscular you are, the more resistance your heart has to pump through, therefore causing benign (I assume?) cardiac hypertrophy.

    If anyone understands what I'm thinking about, I'd like to hear your opinions. I don't think the scientific community knows the answer yet, so I am just throwing out theories.



    Does he have any medical problems or take medication?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 03, 2012 9:43 PM GMT
    yourname2000 said33 = "older guy" icon_eek.gif

    [sigh] icon_sad.gif


    Shut up, BOY ;-)
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Dec 04, 2012 2:07 AM GMT
    The body and the face really aren't connected aside from their shared body moisture content.

    He should get some moisturizers for the face sagging thing. It's not make-up. Tons of guys are using it, and looking good.

    The rest I didn't understand, but if you work out you'lll get larger muscles and be more attractive, generally speaking.
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    Dec 04, 2012 2:23 AM GMT
    Trollileo saidHaggish?


    lol i goolged it too
    i think he meant "haggis face" cuz thats all i could find
    it means "When a scotsman ejaculates and then vomits on a woman's face creating a mixture that resembles haggis."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 04, 2012 2:23 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said33 = "older guy" icon_eek.gif

    [sigh] icon_sad.gif


    I don't think the OP was saying that his 33 year old friend is an "older guy," but was asking those of us who are of "more mature years" if over time we prefered the haggard face with the spectacular abs, or a better overall look with not-so-spectacular abs.

    I'll take the latter. I don't think you can have both the un-"haggard" look with the spectacular abs -- but if it is possible, please enlighten!!
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    Dec 04, 2012 2:25 AM GMT
    It's hard to form a good mental picture of what you mean by "haggish look." Do you mean he is forming Jowel's around the chin line? Can you post a face pic ( block out the eye ateas, so he is not recognizable). Could the genetic. What did his father's and his mother's father's face look like at that age? Without fattening up his face, maybe he could use a face lift? ( sounds drastic for a 33 year old).
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    Dec 04, 2012 5:26 AM GMT
    Well he's a former twink and in that early life crisis where he is having trouble maintaining the twink look. He has a toned/tight body and does have muscle, but he likes to stay at the lower end of his ideal height-for-weight percentage. I'm sure it is a mental thing of course.

    But I digress because I don't think most people got the point of my post, which is to say that do you think that it is healthier to go through weight fluctuations (while working out and switching your focus from muscle bound to endurance bound) or to maintain one of them long term? I mean, if you go through the fluctuations, that taxes your body, but if you don't go through them, your body doesn't find working out really that challenging since you are doing the same stuff (even if it is intense). Do you think it is better to go from say 5'10" 180 (me) back to like 160 and be endurance athlete for a while and then go back to strength and hypertrophy lifting for strength and mass gains?

    One person did post what I was looking for--that he thinks cardio is more important as you age, etc, and that he can't lift as heavy and instead goes for less weight more times...but I'm still looking for someone who considers going from muscle bound to endurance bound (yea you can be both by doing both, but you can't be good at both from a performance standpoint where you look at strength lifts vs running times).
  • mr_bijae

    Posts: 229

    Dec 04, 2012 5:35 AM GMT
    "haggish-face look"

    This is part genetics, but mostly it's the inner personality shining through. You friend needs to have a better disposition on life in general. This is a common ailment for 30-35 year olds as they realize their mortality. Lucky for your friend it passes by age 40 when the "I don't give a fuck" gene kicks in. If you want to help your friend out show him all the reasons why he shouldn't give a fuck what you think about his "haggish-face look" and be happy with who he is inside, because from here on out that's all he's got...
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    Dec 04, 2012 5:42 AM GMT
    Instead of worrying about botox your friend should spend more time developing his character so he can find an equally good person to spend his life with. We all age and its better to have fun while the inevitable happens.
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    Dec 05, 2012 4:44 AM GMT
    Tis better to be a hunky hag. I know. icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 06, 2012 4:28 AM GMT
    Still looking delicious MuchMore icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 06, 2012 5:59 AM GMT
    Before injectable facial fillers actress Catherine Deneauve famously said something like "At some point in life a woman has to choose between her face and her ass."

    I never had that problem because my face was always the last thing to lean out, with abs being second to last. But at 50 I have to admit - starting to look haggish, but I had a good run. It's not like I'm 33! Maybe a walk across Spain would do me some good, too!
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    Dec 06, 2012 8:24 PM GMT
    bluey2223 said Do you think it is better to go from say 5'10" 180 (me) back to like 160 and be endurance athlete for a while and then go back to strength and hypertrophy lifting for strength and mass gains?

    Why cant you work on endurance training at your current weight instead of dropping it? If you aren't planning to compete I don't think it matters much.

    Depending on your goal you may be able to get to the endurance level you want and still maintain your body's set point. Don't you think thats an option?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 07, 2012 8:48 PM GMT
    still can't fathom "old 33 year old?" WTF?
    [url][/url]

    here's me at 33...
    Picture0003.jpgFrom PicturesRE">
  • charmr

    Posts: 233

    Dec 07, 2012 9:42 PM GMT
    bluey2223 saidI have a friend who is 33 and is starting to complain that he's getting that haggish-face look. He's about 5'10" 150 lbs. He typically weight trains twice a week and runs maybe 4 miles the other days (from what I hear).

    I suggested that if he gained about 15 lbs, some of that would go to his face, eliminating that runner's look that people get when all subcutaneous fat leaves your face. He doesn't like the idea because he loves his abs and likes his figure (he wants collagen injections instead, he jokes).

    Anyhow, my question is: Do you think it is healthier to gain weight and lose weight over time (ie go from a strength lifter, say with my stats, to an endurance athlete say with his stats, and back to a strength lifter, say every 5 years or so), or to maintain a weight overtime even though it no longer poses much stress to your body?

    My opinion is that physiological stress is bad and to be avoided if possible because you have a limited supply of repairability over a lifetime. That said, if anyone has different anecdotal experience, I'd be willing to hear. Obviously too much muscle limits your ability to have nice unstressful cardiovascular workouts (HIIT is a bit stressful, you have to admit and unless you swim a lot, then it doesn't matter because you can swim forever with low impact and you're in the horizontal position which makes it easier for your heart to pump minus less venous return from your legs due to less large muscle contraction), and the more muscular you are, the more resistance your heart has to pump through, therefore causing benign (I assume?) cardiac hypertrophy.

    If anyone understands what I'm thinking about, I'd like to hear your opinions. I don't think the scientific community knows the answer yet, so I am just throwing out theories.


    Being on the "gaining and losing circus" is basically a bad idea. When you gain, unless you are extremely conscientious about exercising, you will gain mostly fat. When you lose, you lose some fat but a high percentage of muscle, and you don't want to do that. If you are in shape I would not recommend losing at any time. If you are obese of course that's another story.
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    Dec 08, 2012 7:32 PM GMT
    TellMeMoar said
    bluey2223 said Do you think it is better to go from say 5'10" 180 (me) back to like 160 and be endurance athlete for a while and then go back to strength and hypertrophy lifting for strength and mass gains?

    Why cant you work on endurance training at your current weight instead of dropping it? If you aren't planning to compete I don't think it matters much.

    Depending on your goal you may be able to get to the endurance level you want and still maintain your body's set point. Don't you think thats an option?


    This is a good point. I don't have performance goals but more just metabolic goals. I think as I've focused on strength training the past year that my cardiovascular fitness isn't the best, but I still do cardio like 4x a week between swimming and running, and I do a high intensity and a low-moderate intensity session of each.