Venting a personal story: Appearances. [Uber Long Post]

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    Dec 04, 2012 9:38 AM GMT
    I rarely posts on RJ these days anymore, for personal reasons that won't be mentioned. However, as I come full-circle, I wanted to share something real personal with everyone-- or at least those who would take interest in my posts. icon_surprised.gifPlease note: I am not fishing for sympathy, trying to create an Olympics of Pain/Woes, or what have you. This is just me sharing my thoughts and story. Take it as you will or leave it be.


    For those of us who have been here a long time or even a relatively short time will see the boards littered with forums related to image, attraction, and confidence. I'm not new to these subjects of course, particularly ones dealing with whether or not "gay men like _____." I've wondered these questions myself. I think we all have to some degree, especially those who have been seen or marginalized by our features some how (e.g. weight, skin color, body structure, et cetera). There are many theories to why men are so obsessed with their appearances. Here is a post that illuminates one struggling gay man's affirmation to his identity: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2840430/. Notice the input he gets in there. Some decry hypocrisy, marginalize, and are blatantly offended. Others still share their insight to perhaps guide him away from all which we are surrounded by constantly-- a myriad of confusing messages. Ones that tell us to accept ourselves. Others which tell us to change if we want to bring equal changes. I don't really get it. Which one is it? Do we change? Do we not change? If we change to make ourselves happy and get what we want, why do people have a problem with the change? I guess the hypocrisy of society and its vacuous statements never made much sense to me, one way or another.

    Appearances... Do they matter? I think they do and for some, radical changes are necessary to finding happiness. It's unmistakably human because we're all judged based on our appearance. You do it, I do it, we all do it. It's normal and a hard ugly fact of life. Hah! Imagine that.

    Personally for me, I've struggled all the time with being thin and trying to gain weight. People tell me all kinds of things to pep me up-- "you look great the way you are!" to which I vehemently disagree. "Oh, don't worry about those who don't accept you! Find those who do appreciate you!" to which, again, I appreciate in parts as a gesture but cannot take more than a grain of salt.

    Why?

    Appearances do matter-- to both women and men, regardless of the sex you're interested in. They have. They will. I was bullied because of my appearance-- because I was thin, because I was olive, because I wasn't white, because I wasn't tall, because I wasn't a jock or built like a brick house. Maybe it's a Dallas thing, maybe it's a Texan thing, maybe it's an adolescent/teenager thing, maybe it's a human thing. I don't know which is correct; however, it certainly does piss me off. In addition to being stereotyped as being a 'power bottom', 'twink', 'gay and in denial', among other ludicrous labels.

    Luckily, college help me gain something I really never had: respect for myself, self-esteem, and confidence. Granted, I still struggle from time to time but I have made a near turn around-- even without the body transformation to come with it.

    Still, I can't say it's improved my dating opportunities. People still look at me the same way, regardless of where I go. Most of them aren't really interested in people who have my appearance but I do what I can. I have been without much success. There are certainly those who -are- interested but the overwhelming majority are not my type. I suppose that would be same for the types I do go for, the types which I am physically attracted to-- men who are generally fit, about my skin color or lighter. Of course personality and other components do matter but physically speaking, I just don't have much luck with the way I look and what have you.

    I send messages, I get discouraged from a lack of interest or reply. I retract. I suppose the counsel would be to then "be patient", "not to worry and just be happy being single", to "keep on trying."

    I've been patient. Patience is running dry. While I know that I am not 'entitled' to a relationship, I suppose it gets hard when you're cooped up in your apartment all day because you can't drive, get a job, and lack friends close by you physically. I get being impatient won't get me there faster. I believe I have been patient long enough.

    I'm also not worried about being single. I'm simply bored and tired of it. 7 years of being at home, living in obscurity is more than enough patience and not to mention maddening. I'd like to share myself in all the ways I can. What's life without experiences? I seem to be lacking in them. At my age, I'm almost 8 years behind. It'll be 'fun' to catch up.

    I've been trying too. I don't know what difference is it going to make this umpteenth time. I also don't know where I look. I feel like my options are always the same. Guys who I do like don't like me. Guys who I don't like like me. I like men that are a bit bigger than myself. Men who I like usually prefer men with more meat. I can't seem to gain weight and I sure as hell am not going to wait till I'm 30 to gain weight.

    Dilemmas, problems, issues. *Shrug* I don't know. Apologies for the vomit fest. I just had vent. icon_smile.gif
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    Dec 04, 2012 10:46 AM GMT
    Hmmm that's a lot to digest...

    Appearances do matter, especially in the gay world. Most of us are not blessed with perfect genes and disposable cash and we have to figure out how to work with what we've got.

    It sounds like you aren't content where you are in life. What are your goals? What can you realistically achieve? How do you position yourself to be closer to those goals in one year? In five years? What vision of a man do you have for yourself? What will you sacrifice for that vision?

    I know those questions sound like cliches but I challenge myself with them regularly. (I was in a bad rut in my late 20s and got my life on track.) You're young and smart in a land of great resource. I'm sure you can find a path to be the man you want to be (within reason).
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    Dec 04, 2012 11:00 AM GMT
    icon_biggrin.gif

    This was really cool to hear from you in this kind of way. I too agree with a lot of what you said about appearances and how people perceive others based on superficial notions.

    I have been in a similar rut .. I too was bullied throughout school and was able to manage myself only during senior year in high school. To people that were never bullied .. they may care but they truly don't understand the lack of self-esteem and confidence that builds up when you have been pushed down and stepped on for so long.

    I'm no psychiatrist nor am I 100% better/healed from it, but I can offer a bit of advice and that is to just keep living. I haven't figured it out why I'm still here or alive and it is a daily struggle to overcome my social anxiety and low self esteem. Ironically enough, I even tried to commit suicide recently .. I made a decree right before that If I didn't die ... then I would begin to trust God instead of rebelling against him.

    Lastly, even with all of that I can sit here and just be content with the struggles that people like us face and just stress to keep living. Keep fighting to live another day .. be who you are and treat people with kindness and respect and continue to be a good person. Just keep living and find the light at the end of the tunnel.


    Hope this helps somewhat,

    Isaiah
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    Dec 04, 2012 12:10 PM GMT
    atxd13 saidHmmm that's a lot to digest...

    Appearances do matter, especially in the gay world. Most of us are not blessed with perfect genes and disposable cash and we have to figure out how to work with what we've got.

    It sounds like you aren't content where you are in life. What are your goals? What can you realistically achieve? How do you position yourself to be closer to those goals in one year? In five years? What vision of a man do you have for yourself? What will you sacrifice for that vision?

    I know those questions sound like cliches but I challenge myself with them regularly. (I was in a bad rut in my late 20s and got my life on track.) You're young and smart in a land of great resource. I'm sure you can find a path to be the man you want to be (within reason).


    I think many people are blessed in those regards. I cannot say the same for me. I have been blessed in other aspects-- a relatively good heart, intellect, wisdom, kindness for others, sincerity, and honesty. That's more than what I can say for most; however, all of which become meager gains in the eyes of the beholder-- for there are so many who would only see what their eyes want them to.

    Before I dabble into the questionnaire below, I think it's important to know that I am an immigrant who was brought here to America as a baby. For the longest time, I had no documentation nor any lawful presence. This is the major reason why I haven't been able to get out, get a job, have a car, drive, among other things. In addition, I attended 12 different schools and 8 different ISDs. The average K-12 student has no more than 3-5 schools they attend-- or so I estimate.

    So, nine years ago, I was asked what you asked me-- "what do you want to be when you grow up? Where do you see yourself in five years from now?What vision of a man do you have yourself?" My answer was:

    I am not sure what I want to do yet. Maybe be a chef or an actor. If not that, maybe I'll do something in the sciences. I'm really good at both art and science. As far as the other two questions, I want to attend college, have a job, make good money, drive, maybe have a girlfriend or get engaged/settle down. I'd also like to have kids too. By 25, I no longer want to be skinny-- I want to be muscular and solid. I also want to be married and maybe have a kid by then too.

    That dream never came true. It never happened for many reasons: I didn't learn to drive. I couldn't work. It didn't help that 9/11 happened and I was born in Saudi Arabia, despite me being here since I was about 3. Then, I started to come to grips with my orientation/sexuality at 18 and struggled with it in isolation. I was bisexual though, not gay. I got a lot of shit for it too. Someone told me "don't even bother coming out; there's no point." No friends, no company to help really either. Just me and myself. When I turned 25 this year, I suddenly reflected to that time when I made those earnest dreams, a heart beating and throbbing passionately with dreams and hopes for a bright future.

    When I realized that future was not the future I had currently, I suddenly felt downtrodden. What killed me the most was not having a choice or say in the matter. I had no choice but to accept and live isolated at my home. So, to comment to your statement:

    Am I content with life? No. I am not. Not hardly. Those dreams I had were forcibly snuffed out from me and I couldn't do a damn thing but sit there and let them slip away. The 'land of freedom', the 'land of opportunities' was never my land to begin with and never welcomed me as such-- especially when 9/11 happened. It kills me not being able to do anything for so long.

    Kills me.

    Fatalism aside, all was not lost. I mean, I still had myself, right? There's always a second chance-- there's always tomorrow. I'm not too old. I can still do things. I can still dream new dreams. I just don't know what they are yet. I have many interests, many things I'd be great at even, but I've lost my passion. That doesn't seem to be rectifiable or reconciled. I don't know what my goals are because I don't know what I can do for myself. I have no experience, no solid ground. I don't know what I want to become. People ask me all the time. I never know what to tell them. Makes me sad because I feel like I only disappoint, especially when they their looks/answers seems to convey disdain for my situation.

    I am, at least, 7 years behind; how can I know? What am I supposed to tell people? I don't have an answer. But I'm not looking for pity nor am I fishing for sympathy, especially when the extent of it is: "Wow... that sucks. I'm sorry".

    Yeah, no kidding.

    However, I share to be honest.

    I did get my Associates (General Studies - Liberal Arts) though. I graduated with top honors-- Summa Cum Laude, International Honor Society honors, honors distinction from the classes I took, among other achievements. Honors, honors, honors, and more honors but nothing to do afterwards. My college president keeps on asking me when I attend chapter-related functions: "So, what are you doing these days?"

    Seems to be the billion dollar question these days. Holy crap.

    Realistically speaking, I just got lawful presence in America, thanks to Obama-- love him or hate him. He's the man who did the work when no one else could or would. The DACA-- Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals-- is what I got or else I wouldn't get squat. I'd be rotting away in my apartment, contemplating suicide.

    Hurrah! Progress with legal initiative! icon_biggrin.gif

    I fight, everyday to live, to get by. Just... one more day. I'm single, I'm skinny still (though I've made progress compared to 5 years ago when I first started), I'm a loner, I'm unattractive to many. I'm not like most people. No one wants to hold my hand in their hand, stare into my eyes, make me feel like I'm someone worth being with. There are days when I wish, so badly, I could cry but I can't seem to ever. What's the point anyway?

    Although, to be fair, I tend to be fairly closed off to most seeing how most don't even want to do those things, and those that do are too far away or simply not my type.

    So, boom. First world problems? Probably but hey, they're still my problems.
    I own them. icon_smile.gif

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    Dec 04, 2012 5:34 PM GMT

    Hey Paradise

    I usually surf this site on my iPhone so I apologize in advance if I mangle a quote or my response is not clear....

    In general I think you are voicing angst that is common to a lot of guys in their 20s who are not living the life that was envisioned in their teens. It's especially hard on us (LGBT) since were raised in the heteronormative American society. We're taught that hard work earns real rewards, but most of us have discovered that hard work just leads to hard aches. Even worse - most of us will not have the family that our parents/society expected of us. On some level I think most of us can relate to some of the ache that you so eloquently described.


    ParadiseLost said


    Am I content with life? No. I am not. Not hardly. Those dreams I had were forcibly snuffed out from me and I couldn't do a damn thing but sit there and let them slip away. The 'land of freedom', the 'land of opportunities' was never my land to begin with and never welcomed me as such-- especially when 9/11 happened. It kills me not being able to do anything for so long.

    Kills me.



    I can't speak to this specific source of anguish. It's unfortunate that the land of opportunity is an illusion unless you are a white man with family resources. (Yeah that's a generalization but it rings true for many people.) It's reprehensible that society pushed you aside after 9/11. It kills me as an American that you faced American Jingoism at a generational peak. Arguably those are not the best values that represent our society...

    ParadiseLost said

    That dream never came true. It never happened for many reasons: I didn't learn to drive. I couldn't work. It didn't help that 9/11 happened and I was born in Saudi Arabia, despite me being here since I was about 3. Then, I started to come to grips with my orientation/sexuality at 18 and struggled with it in isolation. I was bisexual though, not gay. I got a lot of shit for it too. Someone told me "don't even bother coming out; there's no point." No friends, no company to help really either. Just me and myself. When I turned 25 this year, I suddenly reflected to that time when I made those earnest dreams, a heart beating and throbbing passionately with dreams and hopes for a bright future.



    You are still young, bright, and attractive. Life might have dealt you a weak hand, but I'd argue that you have a lot going for you. I volunteer with disabled and homeless youth - so many people envy what you have. Your wounds are real and your pain is legitimate, but I suspect you are in a good position to make a good life for yourself.


    ParadiseLost said

    Fatalism aside, all was not lost. I mean, I still had myself, right? There's always a second chance-- there's always tomorrow. I'm not too old. I can still do things. I can still dream new dreams. I just don't know what they are yet. I have many interests, many things I'd be great at even, but I've lost my passion. That doesn't seem to be rectifiable or reconciled. I don't know what my goals are because I don't know what I can do for myself. I have no experience, no solid ground. I don't know what I want to become. People ask me all the time. I never know what to tell them. Makes me sad because I feel like I only disappoint, especially when they their looks/answers seems to convey disdain for my situation.

    I am, at least, 7 years behind; how can I know? What am I supposed to tell people? I don't have an answer. But I'm not looking for pity nor am I fishing for sympathy, especially when the extent of it is: "Wow... that sucks. I'm sorry".



    Well I think life is really difficult - even sucky at times. I won't get into my life story but I feel like I am ten years behind most of my peers due to circumstances of my family and youth. When I turned 30 I found myself weighing over 200 pounds in a dead-end relationship and a stalled career. I wasn't sexy, I wasn't happy, I wasn't alive. I gave myself goals of losing weight and gaining control of my life. It took a couple years and a lot of sacrifice - and I lost most of my friends along the way. Sadly I am still behind where I want to be in life, but I am in control.

    I encourage you to somehow regain control over your life, your body, your diet, your future. You aren't the man you hoped to be at this age. That's OK. Most of us aren't.... But I don't think a happy, fulfilling life is out of reach for you. You are obviously honest about yourself and that's the first major step. Find an older mentor. I think RJ is full of guys who have overcome difficult life challenges. Knowing how other people find success/happiness can help you on your path.

    ParadiseLost said

    Realistically speaking, I just got lawful presence in America, thanks to Obama-- love him or hate him. He's the man who did the work when no one else could or would. The DACA-- Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals-- is what I got or else I wouldn't get squat. I'd be rotting away in my apartment, contemplating suicide.



    I'm not the biggest fan of Obama or suicide but this makes me happy that I voted for him.


    ParadiseLost said

    I fight, everyday to live, to get by. Just... one more day. I'm single, I'm skinny still (though I've made progress compared to 5 years ago when I first started), I'm a loner, I'm unattractive to many. I'm not like most people. No one wants to hold my hand in their hand, stare into my eyes, make me feel like I'm someone worth being with. There are days when I wish, so badly, I could cry but I can't seem to ever. What's the point anyway?



    It pains me to read this because I have been there (except not skinny). I can share how I was able to get out of my rut, but I have to be honest and admit that I still have those feelings. I suspect that a lot of guys here share these feelings but would prefer not to explore them. It's so much easier to talk about hot guys, diet, sex, etc.

    You're not alone. Reach out when/if you hit your bottom.
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    Dec 04, 2012 6:16 PM GMT
    Self-pity is the highest form of poverty. I hope you make a decision to let go of that one day.



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    Dec 04, 2012 8:56 PM GMT
    First of all,
    I'd like to thank you both, Shell and atxd13, for not being dickwads like deltalimen and actually reading my post rather than slapping a useless one-liner. I genuinely appreciate the sincerity and kindness you two have shown here.

    @Shell: I'm glad you're still alive and kicking Mr. Shell. Who elses booty will I stalk then if you just go poof? :/ Hehe. :3

    But in all seriousness, I, being a spiritualist, often believe that there is a reasoning to the madness and suffering I am dealt. Often times, it seems to be true, a light does bear itself at the end of the journey reconciling the heartaches and providing deep lessons that etch itself onto my heart.

    I do fight on, not just because of my loved ones but because I have to fight on for myself too. I just think there are days when things become greasley and dark for me, such as last night. That's when the load becomes unbearable.

    Thank you for your kind words though. icon_smile.gif *Hugs and gently pats his cheek*

    But... which cheek am I patting? icon_surprised.gif



    @atx13:

    I know many of those who are my age my have the same general concerns as I do, leering into our future with much uncertainty and perhaps disillusionment. We're raised to be productive so when we're not, we feel like we're falling behind, that we are unattractive, we are not doing enough, and we begin to doubt ourselves. We wonder if we're 'good enough', ever.

    Yep, same questions in my head.

    Yes, I know that life isn't over, that there is still tomorrow. I can change things albeit it a little later. The cards I was dealt were shitty indeed in life but they've given me a source of strength, a sense of persevereance, and a determination that helps me stay on board-- even when the future looks bleak and uncertain. I suppose it's that fear of being left behind, not being good enough, and even a little bit of envy. There are so many who have the opportunities and means to create and carve out the futures but don't. They rather sit there and dwell in their suffering without even trying to get out. I've done remarkable at least when it came to my honor society. I attended inductions and reached heights high and profound.

    Yet, I still don't feel it is enough. I feel like I must do more. Gosh, society sure does make you into their personal productive lil' automoton, doesn't it?

    I'm sorry to hear that you also had those similar pains or struggles. I know I cannot relate to being 200 lbs. I never have been above 130 in my life. I hope that may change soon; however, I know the complexities that come with weight and appearances; that feeling of dysphoria that comes from reflecting on one's accomplishments and comparing it to others. It can be vitriol to our egoes and self-confidence. Luckily, opportunity creates possibilities when you take a step forward. It seems like you so obviously have but not without your own trials and errors.

    I think I'll be able to regain some sense of myself and my future when my work permit comes in. It'll be the tipping point and my way out of this infernal cage. Tigers/Wolves are not meant to be kept in cages, after all and I see myself being very much just that. It's funny how that is-- one little piece of paper will change everything I've known and all that I have been so far telling me "it's okay for you to live here, after 22 years." Hahaha... how amusing.

    I have old mentors actually. They're my old college professors and such. They seem to give me more than what most gay men have as far as perspective and support. My English professor alone has become like family to me; she literally raised me from the shambles of darkness and put me into the light. She saw potential in me when really no one else did. She believed in me, and look, it changed me-- for the better. That's what I want in my life; people who believe in me, more than the nuggets of wisdom, most of which things which I already know of. As I state in my profile, I was 50 before I was 20. My family members and peers seem to confirm that in me.

    I know Obama is sometimes seen as "Oblabla" to others; however, like I said before, love him or hate him, he's the man. The man with a plan who actually got shit done. Maybe it was a political move. So what? I don't mind. He actually bent down from his pedestal of kingship and scratched MY back. That's what matters to me. I can't vote for him anyway and he still scratched my back. It didn't benefit him directly by helping me out but now I've gained freedom in the process. So, I'm extremely grateful and will personally pardon all of his misgivings.

    But... I'm happy that you're happy that you voted for him, lol. icon_razz.gif

    Haha, I'd talk about "hot guys, sex, and diet" too but I don't have any of those to really talk about. My life is abundantly without than with. It doesn't mean I lack gratitude for the things I do have. It just means I want more than what I have right now. I hope it may change in the future but until then, I am the denizen of the dark.

    Thank you once again adtx13. You're a real gem. *Plants a kiss on his cheek.* icon_smile.gif
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    Dec 04, 2012 8:59 PM GMT
    I believe I've voiced my opinion on appearances and why we're so obsessed.

    But I also do think that unless you have appearances and/or confidence, you WILL have a very hard time as a gay man. Men as a whole are pretty shallow in that regard. Even straight men. Which is why sometimes I'll see a guy who is less then ideal have a boyfriend. He makes up for it confidence and simply being himself. That said, he does have to make an extra bit of effort to reach out because his appearance won't draw them in.

    But why are we so obsessed? It's simply an unconscious habit we have. Unlike straight men, we are also attracted to the body that we want for ourselves. So we push and beat ourselves up when we are having trouble achieving that body and then even more so because we don't think we can ever even attract someone with that body and thus we constantly beat ourselves up. And keep in mind, this after beating ourselves up internally for a number of years growing up for having homosexual feelings in the first place. By the time we get to the point where we are ready to pursue someone that we're actually attracted to, our minds are pretty bruised.
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    Dec 04, 2012 9:14 PM GMT
    deltalimen saidSelf-pity is the highest form of poverty. I hope you make a decision to let go of that one day.


    There are probably a million things I want to say to you, none of which are friendly. Spare me your 'illustrious wisdom', especially when you:

    a) apparently cannot read when I clearly stated "I am not fishing for sympathy" and was simply telling my story

    b) obviously are condescending and have a problem with a person expressing their grievances and assume much without trying to empathize or understand

    c) don't know a damn thing about me.

    "Self-pity is the highest form of poverty?" No. Denial, lack of awareness, insincerity, dishonesty are forms of poverty-- not 'self-pity'. I choose to express myself in an honest light rather than the verisimilitude of 'strength' or pretending to be invulnerable to life and the lemons it deals you. However, it's apparent to me that you cannot discern between 'self-pity' and expression of one's heartfelt grievances.

    I hope you can pull your head out of your ass before shitting out your useless parables, deltalimen.
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    Dec 04, 2012 9:21 PM GMT
    IceBuckets saidI believe I've voiced my opinion on appearances and why we're so obsessed.

    But I also do think that unless you have appearances and/or confidence, you WILL have a very hard time as a gay man. Men as a whole are pretty shallow in that regard. Even straight men. Which is why sometimes I'll see a guy who is less then ideal have a boyfriend. He makes up for it confidence and simply being himself. That said, he does have to make an extra bit of effort to reach out because his appearance won't draw them in.

    But why are we so obsessed? It's simply an unconscious habit we have. Unlike straight men, we are also attracted to the body that we want for ourselves. So we push and beat ourselves up when we are having trouble achieving that body and then even more so because we don't think we can ever even attract someone with that body and thus we constantly beat ourselves up. And keep in mind, this after beating ourselves up internally for a number of years growing up for having homosexual feelings in the first place. By the time we get to the point where we are ready to pursue someone that we're actually attracted to, our minds are pretty bruised.


    I think my issue, personally, has less to do with 'being myself' and more to just being accepted. Maybe I should re-title this post as Appearances Vs. Acceptance. icon_surprised.gif

    Luckily, I have more sense on most days than to crucify myself for the sake of society and their apparent inability obsession with appearances. Still, I do have my days when I whip myself, especially when I do reach out to others and get an overwhelming amount of rejection or dead-ends. Sometimes these dead-ends are because the person is a dullard. Other times, it's because, I believe, the way I look.

    Does that mean I think I'm ugly?

    No. But I wish there were more people around me who felt the same way. o.o The ones I'd actually enjoy dating and such.

    You see, these things would likely not even be topics if I was just working the grind like most humans do instead of finding ways to criticize myself or feeling inadequate/lonely at 3:38 in the morning. -.-
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    Dec 04, 2012 10:10 PM GMT
    I can't believe I read through this entore posting on my cellphone.
    I'm glad for you that you got whatever kind of deferral of deportation that you did. I trust in hope that this allows you to get a job and a driver's license. But I wouldn't hold out hope at this time for becoming a US citizen. If it comes, it may very well be predicated upon military service, which you might not find desirable. If you have not already, I would look into the possibilities of immigration to Canada, Australia, NZ, all of which are tolerant of immigrants, and especially immigrants from the Mideast ( which the US does not seem to be). Have you ever thought of trying to get a job at the UN? You would need connections, academic and or political. You said you received a degree with honors . Academic achievment is the way to get ahead, either in this country, or in getting an immigrant visa to go to another country. All countries today want highly skilled imigrants.

    As to your emotional delimmas, getting a job we're getting ahead academically will no doubt make you feel a lot better about yourself. There is not much you can do about your looks, but you do not appear to be UN attractive. why in god's name are you still in Texas? I assume your immigration status made you immobile? If you lived in a more cosmopolitan city, I like New York or Boston or perhaps San Francisco, you might find a lot easier in the sex/dating scene. There are guys there that are accepting of all different kinds of appearances. There are all so much larger pools of available men. Lastly, it's almost necessary that for you to do well in the dating scene, you have to feel good about yourself. Wherever you meet, the other guy picks up vibrations from you which unconsciously tells him whether or not you are a fun guy or a depressed guy, or whatever. No one you would want is attracted to depression. Thus you have to feel good about yourself. Circular problem perhaps - I don't know if you are depressed. So dive back into academics or the Arts, or whatever and really immerse yourself until you get somewhere. And talk to a professional about the most attractive way to wear your hair with your face. Best of luck in your future.
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    Dec 04, 2012 10:41 PM GMT
    deltalimen saidSelf-pity is the highest form of poverty. I hope you make a decision to let go of that one day.





    *points towards the door*

    ... that was very unnecessary icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 05, 2012 12:09 AM GMT
    @hikeswimskiSF:

    I cannot believe you do that either. o.O Damn, you must be committed or I seriously grabbed your attention. +D Thank you so very much for your response though. I appreciate it. :3

    Ahem, to expound...

    The DACA-- Deferred Action for Chidlhood Arrivals (I sound like a lawyer now icon_surprised.gif) does indeed allow for lawful presence, exemption from deportation (unless you fuck up), the ability to drive, and get a job. Citizenship is something faaaaaar reached right now. I did apply for Residency but I would be 30-31 before I actually get it. Until then, the work permit is a great way to start.

    Edit: I checked my status online. Apparently it's suspended because I need to provide them more information than what I already have. -_- Everyone else I know has gotten it but me. *Sigh* I swear... This is the kind of shit that makes me want to off myself sometimes.

    The Military service no longer guarantees residency/citizenship based on service. I think they changed that recently. Besides, I'm not sure if I'd do well in the military. I may be too skinny or something.

    Canada, Australia, NZ all abide by a 'point system' for immigration. They won't invite anyone and everyone. There needs to be a reason why you are immigrating and usually it's due to a trade or skill you have to offer. I have no such trade or skills I can offer. I am raw potential but it is untapped in any specific way. There are no connections which I have in NZ or Australia. My aunt/uncle do live in Canada but I don't think it'll work. Besides, to pay for the fees among other things is also a burden I cannot bear to afford. It costed my mother almost everything to just pay this lawyer fee. She's having to pay back everyone and she's not even half-way there. Money is tight.

    I think you're right though-- once I'm professionally situated, things will become a bit better.

    Perhaps I am not to some. Matters of attraction are wholly subjective and relative to the eyes of the beholder. Many, it seems, where I live want to do nothing with me. *Shrug* Those who do, I do not care for. I'm really good at attracting the kind of people I am personally not attracted to. It's great.

    Why am I in Texas? Good question. I didn't choose to be here, that's for sure but with my sister living her with her husband and her baby, my mother wants to stay close. Besides, where else would I go? Texas is all I've known. It'd be one thing if I could actually work and travel. I cannot do that. I cannot do a damn thing. If the DACA dismisses my case, I'm fucked. Besides, how would I live in these other said cities? You need a job and PLEASE don't tell me "to work underneath the table." It doesn't happen here anymore and most certainly doesn't happen without a car. Local transits are wholly inefficient. Things have changed since USCIS. Companies which hire do all kinds of screens and background checks.

    When I date people, I don't bring them down or bore them with the incapacities of my life. I share these things in some confidance with the people who I know. I shared my story on RJ not to prattle on about how 'woe is me'. o_o I just was venting my frustrations and indignations with how things are with my life right now and to share some things about myself for those who care to know more. Ultimately though, every person produces baggage. What matters is to not let your 'baggage' or as I like to see it, your 'beer belly' get in the way of meeting others. For me, it doesn't. Others who I take interest in seem to lack interest in me. *Shrugs* I can't have what I like, I suppose due to appearances, I presume.

    Money. To emphasize: No-money. I cannot go to school anymore not until I make money. I can't make money because I cannot get a job. I cannot get a job because I'm not legally eligible to work and lack a car. So...? Stuck at home.

    Maddening.

    My sister is a professional but wearing my hair isn't going to make a sea of difference if they don't care for my body size, skin color, or facial features. Ya dig?

    Terribly vexing situation to be in. I don't wish my life's situation on anyone, that's for sure.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 05, 2012 12:20 AM GMT
    *hugs*

    You have my # if you need to talk.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 05, 2012 12:21 AM GMT
    paulflexes said*hugs*

    You have my # if you need to talk.


    I did have your number-- until my old phone crapped out on me and decided to go kaput. >:/
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 05, 2012 12:26 AM GMT
    ParadiseLost said
    paulflexes said*hugs*

    You have my # if you need to talk.


    I did have your number-- until my old phone crapped out on me and decided to go kaput. >:/
    Well that sucks. icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 05, 2012 12:34 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    ParadiseLost said
    paulflexes said*hugs*

    You have my # if you need to talk.


    I did have your number-- until my old phone crapped out on me and decided to go kaput. >:/
    Well that sucks. icon_lol.gif


    You suck. >:/

    ...But at least you're good at it. icon_surprised.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 05, 2012 12:46 AM GMT
    ParadiseLost said
    paulflexes said
    ParadiseLost said
    paulflexes said*hugs*

    You have my # if you need to talk.


    I did have your number-- until my old phone crapped out on me and decided to go kaput. >:/
    Well that sucks. icon_lol.gif


    You suck. >:/

    ...But at least you're good at it. icon_surprised.gif
    I'm not good at sucking. That would imply I swallow, which I don't. icon_razz.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 05, 2012 12:49 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    ParadiseLost said
    paulflexes said
    ParadiseLost said
    paulflexes said*hugs*

    You have my # if you need to talk.


    I did have your number-- until my old phone crapped out on me and decided to go kaput. >:/
    Well that sucks. icon_lol.gif


    You suck. >:/

    ...But at least you're good at it. icon_surprised.gif
    I'm not good at sucking. That would imply I swallow, which I don't. icon_razz.gif


    You don't have to swallow anything. It depends on what you're sucking. icon_confused.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 05, 2012 12:54 AM GMT
    Well all I can say is that the ParadiseLost I know from a few emails awhile back is a very gracious, kind and warm hearted person. (It's OK if you don't remember them- haha! I can't recall what we discussed myself, only that I was grateful to you for the engaging back and forth. That's very unusual for this site, in a very good way.)

    I don't have any answers for you - I just hope that you discover your path.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 05, 2012 1:12 AM GMT
    Tenebrism saidWell all I can say is that the ParadiseLost I know from a few emails awhile back is a very gracious, kind and warm hearted person. (It's OK if you don't remember them- haha! I can't recall what we discussed myself, only that I was grateful to you for the engaging back and forth. That's very unusual for this site, in a very good way.)

    I don't have any answers for you - I just hope that you discover your path.


    I hope so too... Thank you though Tenebrism. icon_smile.gif I could use some light in the canvas of darkness.
  • Oddball

    Posts: 13

    Dec 05, 2012 1:29 AM GMT
    Wooooow I feel like this too.
    Your writing is so eloquent.For me, I'm just tired of being jealous of regular people all the time. I'm mainly jealous of relationships that come so easily to the straight people out here whether they be fat, ugly, nerds, or anything, really. It seems like it takes no effort.
    The simple feeling of being wanted and cared for is the most important feeling but... people like us can't seem to find it. Without being loved, I don't feel like there's a purpose in life. At least not for me.

    I also lost my passion. I'm an excellent student and I was planning to go to dental school blah blah. But, then, I realized that even if I had a lot of money and nice things, a good job, and hobbies... I wouldn't really have anything if I didn't have someone to share it with.
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    Dec 05, 2012 1:41 AM GMT
    deltalimen saidSelf-pity is the highest form of poverty. I hope you make a decision to let go of that one day.


    This was not meant to be cruel or funny but a solution. Often times we aimlessly seek out advice with no intention of ever solving the problem. Look at the money that's poured into therapy and counseling, but even though the solution is given we like to try to do it our own way instead.

    This is a solution that worked for me. I don't know your story up-close, but I think I've been down the same road. I'm objective because I know you don't want sympathy.

    This was said previously, "Reach out when/if you hit your bottom." Like the phrase above, not a parable, poverty is the bottom, and from what I read there's nothing but poor, poor me. The solution is making the decision to let go of that. Only you can make that decision, no one else. It takes a lot of pain to get to that point.

    It seems that the constant theme in this snippet of 'you' is if someone found you attractive life would be better, and that no one finds you attractive. The whole reason you state that you would like to change your appearance is so someone would find you attractive. So you're dependent on others' view of yourself? Those that indulge in self-pity also indulge in acceptance and validation from others. A single validation for the self-centered one will never be enough.

    You state that you understand you're not entitled to a relationship. This is an extremely good place to be, but it doesn't sound like you believe it. You are responsible for giving your own life meaning. If you're only meaning in life is to find one single relationship, I would say that's not a very fulfilling life. I'm sure you're surrounded by loving relationships (sister, BnL, their child, mother), but perhaps you still feel lonely. Loneliness is not unique. Many people are lonely, but like what was said earlier, "You're not alone."

    Another contradiction on the 'spiritual' side is, "...that there is still tomorrow." We are never entitled to that either. When tomorrow comes it will be today. So today is the only day you have. Living in the past or living in the future is not living at all.

    We can change our bodies-- we can change location, jobs, boyfriends, etc... The only true form of change is a change in the soul. Acceptance is that change.

    ^This is just my view of your situation based on what I went through myself.^
    Hang in there, and you can only live in today.

    Now here's my subjective side if you choose to read:

    I grew up with emotionally unavailable parents-- Mom was a drunk, Dad was a German. I was a fat kid. I never got acceptance from my Father because I wasn't the athletic type like him. I went through school depending on others' for my self-worth. I didn't get it. I was actually made fun of and tormented everyday for my size, appearance, and my second-hand clothes. I did develop a very large ego though.

    I remember around 10 years of age contemplating killing myself. I thought about it daily for about 15+ years after that. I was the epitome of 'nothing is right'. When I came out of the closet at age 17, I thought that would open the door for me to have this fulfilled life with a lover and be happy. I dropped massive amounts of weight in the search that someone would want me. I spent money on surgery to create this perfect body so someone would want me. No one did. If they did, I didn't want them.

    I got older, but nothing changed about me inside. I was the same child just screaming for acceptance. I was a poor soul with a 'poor, poor me' attitude. Why am I single? I'm so smart. I'm so kind. The list went on and on about me, and me... and more me.

    Finally, I hit that so called bottom. I realized that I loved and cherished my self-pity. It made me feel special. It made me feel okay. The further I got away from it the more I realized how unhealthy and self-centered it was. Self-criticism is just another form of arrogance, but I still didn't want to make the decision to let it go.

    Like stated on a post above, I started doing things for other people. I started giving back all the things that I was given. That opened my eyes to the idea that the world still goes on with or without me. I'm just one tiny part of the big picture. I must decide to be that tiny part. Essentially, the 'self' in self-pity and self-centeredness slowly started going away.

    My life today is unimaginably different. There are plenty of bad things still in my life, but I don't fondle those ideas today. I seek connections with other people today to get out of myself. I share tears. I share stories. When I'm not looking at my 'self', compassionate things happen.
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    Dec 05, 2012 4:14 AM GMT
    @Deltalimen:

    *Blinks*

    The advice offered for relationships is not something I have the ability or power to change; therein was my dilemma and the reason for my vomit fest. I cannot speak for others but I know if there is a solution, I grab it by the horns and do my best to rein it in. However, my situation isn't so simple as that. It's compounded with various facets which I reveal throughout this thread.

    In general: I find it incredibly naive and immature a person would find expression such lamentations to be the same as being on some sort of sympathetic welfare. While some people do expect handouts, there is a clear division between grieving and wanting to be pitied. On a side note: This condescending mentality is exactly the kind of psychological blitzkerg that confuses people into assuming that strength is simply the absence of weakness, even the weakness of oneself. The warfare is what causes people to believe crying is weakness, feeling sorry for yourself is repulsive, and grieving for a situation is pointless. If/When you truly hit rock bottom, you really don't give a flying fuck whether it's logical or not. You feel the overwhelming feelings that hit you in a surge and often it leaves you feeling crippled. When you feel like no one else understands how you feel or feel trapped by your emotions, you do begin to feel sorry for yourself. Of course, I -do- believe that one should be opportunistic and try to remedy either the situation or slowly try to come to terms with it rather than remain fixated by their issues. Otherwise, they risk being stuck in a victim-mentality and gain this really terrible thing called "learned helplessness." However, every situation and person is different. That source of strength isn't something that can be immediately available.

    Personally? My 'loneliness' is something I've beared for a great deal of my life, a time which I should be learning and gaining experiences of life, not holed away in my apartment. There are situations, unbenknown to you, which makes it all the more apparent; it also makes me feel out of place. I make no assumptions-- in fact, I pretty much say it up there-- life WOULD be better if I had someone else to spend my time with, other than my family BECAUSE most of the time the situation is like this: "Hmn... I'm bored today. What to do? OH, wait, I can't do shit except get on the computer. Guess I'll just get on there."

    This isn't a life. It's imprisonment and hellish and that's what it feels like to me. Also why I wanted to get out, meet people, maybe find a nice person to date to keep my mind off of the fact I can't do shit yet. It's a great source of distraction AND I can actually spend quality time with someone else other than myself.


    Also, it's not that "NO ONE" finds me attractive; it's that the ones who I find attractive do not reciprocate the same interests. I'm a master at attracting people who I don't feel interest in. *Shrugs* Many men who do have more muscles or a bigger body usually do get noticed more often than, say, a man with my kind of composition or features-- assuming I'm not walking into a Baptist church on Sunday or something, haha. When I was with my bestie one time, he definitely got all the stares and looks. All I got were some squints and some occasional glances. Of course, you may think it's me being melodramatic, me overestimating my friend or underestimating myself but I'm sharing what I've experienced. *Shrug* It'd be fine if it was an isolated event but the same general attitudes seem to repeat no matter where I go. The ones that do are not the ones I prefer to be with. Perhaps that's hypocrisy but I also don't prefer to lie to myself or a person. I'm not desperate to be with just ANYONE. I am, however, wanting to seek the company of what I find to be a compatible and generous man-- one who I feel a physical, mental, psychological, sexual, and spiritual attraction to.

    Do I hinge on the support and validation of others? Perhaps in small parts, yes, I still do though it pains me to say it. There are still parts of me that feel unreconciled. It comes with dealing with a pattern of rejection or disdain, the same kind no matter where I go. Granted, I've made great improvements but I know I have work to be done.

    We all wish to be wanted and find someone who cares and appreciates us-- not just family members or even friends. What I want isn't different from that. That's why I don't feel entitled to anything. I simply just want one. There is a difference. I'm 25-- I don't have to be the epitome of self-love and be completely detached from wanting to be in the company of others or even wanting love or a relationship. I just want one. *Shrug* I know I am not entitled to it but I don't demand one. I just do what I can to try and find it but with little luck do to the reasons aforementioned. My life is given meaning by what I do for myself, what I do for others, and what others do for me.

    I get what you mean by "today is the only day you have"; however, to ignore the past and pretend it never happened, doesn't matter, or doesn't affect you is a contradiction as well. That's why I even considered the idea my appearances may be the reason why people do not seem interested in me. It may be a flawed notion but it's the only conclusion I can extrapolate, especially given the attitudes of others and how it would quickly shift on things like my picture.

    The past does affect you. That's why you are here today. The future you make today is determined by the choices and actions you bring forth. The future becomes the present and the present becomes the past. When every day is the same and seems devoid of anything else, life looks bleak and boring. when my legal situation clears of its clouds. Until then, I am stuck, slowly drained of time. Hence why instead of twiddling my thumbs or sitting on my hands, I seek to find someone else to spend time with, preferably in the present than in the later future.

    Your story is heartfelt and, in parts, I can relate to it. I was the screaming child once too demanding acceptance. I indulged in pity and being 'emorific' thinking I was the "King of Sorrow", among other things. I find that sort of thinking indulgent, self-centered, and debilitating. I grew out of the phase but I always felt less than adequate-- until college. I met great people, people who changed my life, people who I can get out and about with. Since I graduated, I've been stuck at home. I no longer demand acceptance, contrary to the post above. I WAS complaining I didn't get it and was expressing my frustrations. Of course, I make it perfectly obvious that's what I was going to do-- was vent about appearances. I didn't come to seek pity, advice, or counsel. Just wanting to share myself with those who would listen.

    The difference between your situation in mind, beside the obvious, is you're not considered an "unwanted alien". You're not struggling with your residency. You're also not stuck at home all day. Life provides you opportunities to work, make a living, and gives you the potential to create a future. I am stuck and I wanted out. I probably said this million times but I'll say it again: That's why I wanted to be with someone-- to help me pass time instead of being isolated.

    So, in short, am I alone? No. I do have my mother, my sister, and a handful of friends-- none of which are nearby really. Am I lonely? You're damn right I am. I feel isolated, even if I live with my mom. I want to get out, do things, make some noise, dance, laugh, sing, work, work out and do it independent of my family. I want to experience life. I can't through an enclosure.
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    Dec 09, 2012 10:25 AM GMT
    Hey OP, I just have to say that your post was very insightful even if it was more about your own personal story, I definitely relate to it.
    I even read your post on the other forum topic you posted and that was so insightful too!!

    To tell you the truth, I do agree alot with what you said about appearances and have posted very similar things to what you have said here on different forum topics. The problem I found never really started in not having a good enough "inside" quality, but just the fact that people don't bother discovering it unless they like your "outside" quality.
    That especially rings true with men in generaly to begin with, not that I'm saying all are like that, but a good vast majority.

    I once watched this movie or tv show I can't remember, where this girl said "inner beauty is for ugly people". That in a sense actually made sense to me, not that I'm saying inner beauty isn't important, to me that statement spoke a different truth in my experience.
    I felt that for me to find someone, since my outside wasn't favourable I really had to dig deep and work on my inner qualities. The statement just made me so aware that for me it's highly likely that it's the ONLY thing that I have got going for me whereas for other's, it's a luxury on top of their looks.
    Being honest, let's face it out of the 2 options, people would pick the latter over the former because they want the whole "package" right.

    So the way my self-loathing began was because I always felt robbed because it's not like I'd asked to be born less 'attractive' in the eyes of others. I know alot of people say "you have to love yourself before other's can love you" but honestly, other people's opinions do matter still to some degree because if I was just seeking a relationship with myself then everything would be fine already.

    Anyway in the long run I began to find that this way of thinking was so poisonous so it was really hard but I mostly managed to turn that around. I still have my moments here and there, but I have found really good ways to distract myself and forget about them.

    Okay now the next part I'm going to say isn't my actual advice for you to follow, it's merely the solution I found that I used to help me.
    So similar to you, there was a time when I was looking and not finding and then being disappointed. At this point I had learned to not actually take it so personally so I wouldn't get that emotionally hurt but just disappointed.

    There came a time where I honestly felt enough was enough, and so I felt that my only option to cease the disappointment and help regain my sanity (not that I'm saying you've lost yours lol, just saying for me) was that I had to choose to completely close myself off.
    So I decided on just keeping my singledom and not looking at all in any way, shape or form and then adapting from there.
    So in short I changed my life to adapt and suit as best as it can to that decision.

    Surely enough with time I was less self loathing and depricating (not that it's completely gone, but less than before) and was becoming, maybe not happier in the sense but more accepted and content with who I am.
    When I say close my self off, I don't mean that I don't let people into my life. I have really great friends and I let them in of course, I just mean in the sense of relationships that in order for me to get my sanity back I had to finally decide to shut that door completely. I don't know for how long or if I will ever let it open, especially since I've done it for so long now it's probably second nature.

    I suppose besides changing your body and suit what you want to attract, the only thing I can think of which I'm not entirely sure is possible, is to change or alter what you find attractive so that it suits or is closer to the people who are attracted to you. Who knows, maybe if you tried you might be surprised.

    Anyway, I'm just so glad that there is someone else who feels similar to what I've also been feeling too, though like what other's have posted, you said it so eloquently that it in a way in made perfect sense haha.
    I'm also glad because often people keep this repressed and then become very depressed but I'm glad you chose an outlet to vent, and in doing so you helped other's feel more at ease.
    I know I felt more at ease with myself after learning that someone feels similar, so thank you for that really!

    P.S. Sorry for the long winded reply and if I tangented off topic.