Protected carbs?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 07, 2012 12:52 AM GMT
    Was grocery shopping and saw the pastas, dreamfield. I'm on a low carb diet for months now and have been craving some grains. Are these safe? The miracle noodles/rice isn't cutting it for me.

    Dreamsfields-Lasagna-Nutrition.jpg
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    Dec 07, 2012 1:41 AM GMT
    Wait...you're on a diet that doesn't allow for the occasional "unhealthy goodness" meal?

    Dude, do Paleo. Fuck the fad diets. They only make you crave other foods.
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    Dec 07, 2012 3:28 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidWait...you're on a diet that doesn't allow for the occasional "unhealthy goodness" meal?

    Dude, do Paleo. Fuck the fad diets. They only make you crave other foods.


    I've looked into that, only problem is once you start this awful low carb diet, you start introducing carbs, you start inflating like crazy lol
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    Dec 07, 2012 6:21 AM GMT
    Careful with the pasta. I swear, when I have a pig-out day, I get a little drunk from the carbs.

    No driving under the influence of lasagna...
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Dec 07, 2012 6:25 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidWait...you're on a diet that doesn't allow for the occasional "unhealthy goodness" meal?

    Dude, do Paleo. Fuck the fad diets. They only make you crave other foods.


    Pros and cons aside, are you actually suggesting that Paleo isn't a fad diet as well?
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    Dec 07, 2012 6:29 AM GMT
    Buppi saidWas grocery shopping and saw the pastas, dreamfield. I'm on a low carb diet for months now and have been craving some grains. Are these safe? The miracle noodles/rice isn't cutting it for me.

    Dreamsfields-Lasagna-Nutrition.jpg


    You NEED carbs. Never, ever, never, eat less than 100 grams of carbs per day.

    Ideally, you should have a bit of a starchy carb at every meal, and a fast carb, as well as a slower one, post workout.

    You train your body to become a fat storing machine. What you are doing is largely counter productive.
  • mz29xy

    Posts: 37

    Dec 07, 2012 6:34 AM GMT
    That's because when the carbs turn into sugar you can also have a further conversion into alcohol. Some people really do get a drunk feeling off carbs.

    To the original question... I agree with the earlier paleo recommendation - if you incorporate enough good fats into your diet from grass fed/pasture fed meats, avocado's, nuts/seeds, etc then paleo works. The diet should be 80% steamed or raw vegetables with grass fed butter, coconut oil, or olive oil for taste and no more than 6-8 ounces of animal meat a day to prevent the body from going into protein toxicity.

    Every grain, except corn causes the body to have an immune reaction, but the problem with corn is that in the U.S., unless it says organic/non GMO its GMO which causes genetic malformations in human beings.

    The most metabolically destructive thing you can put in your body is sugar... which means, avoid potatoes, bread, wheat, pasta, beans, rice (esp. white rice), etc.

    Beans are actually 60% carb.

    yours in health...
  • mz29xy

    Posts: 37

    Dec 07, 2012 6:37 AM GMT
    You really do NEED carbs... vegetable carbs like leafy greens, broccoli, etc. Human beings didn't even start having autoimmune diseases like lupus, sclera derma, etc. until we started eating grains (simple carbs).
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    Dec 07, 2012 6:38 AM GMT
    mz29xy saidYou really do NEED carbs... vegetable carbs like leafy greens, broccoli, etc. Human beings didn't even start having autoimmune diseases like lupus, sclera derma, etc. until we started eating grains (simple carbs).


    Grains aren't simple carbs. DOH.

    Back to the books for you.

    Read up on glycemic indexes.

    (I hate this when folks are SO FAR OFF.)
  • mz29xy

    Posts: 37

    Dec 07, 2012 6:40 AM GMT
    Medjai said
    paulflexes saidWait...you're on a diet that doesn't allow for the occasional "unhealthy goodness" meal?

    Dude, do Paleo. Fuck the fad diets. They only make you crave other foods.


    Pros and cons aside, are you actually suggesting that Paleo isn't a fad diet as well?


    Paleo is the original human diet that our bodys are naturally programmed for.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 07, 2012 6:41 AM GMT
    Ok now we're totally off into lala land, misinformation and plain old lies.

    /thread
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    Dec 07, 2012 6:44 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    chuckystud saidYou NEED carbs. Never, ever, never, eat less than 100 grams of carbs per day.

    Ideally, you should have a bit of a starchy carb at every meal, and a fast carb, as well as a slower one, post workout.

    You train your body to become a fat storing machine. What you are doing is largely counter productive.

    Really Chucky? So what are the "essential carbs"? I know there are essential amino acids and essential fatty acids, but there are no essential carbs. Your body can make its own from fat and protein. Granted there are a couple of important organs that only utilize glucose as fuel (including your brain!) but the amount is so small that you can go weeks using carbs already stored or converted in your body.

    The Innu used to live 6 months of the year on seal and whale blubber....no carbs. In fact, they didn't even have a word for diabetes until the were (foolishly) enticed to switch to a western diet.

    (And I love ya, bud...your advice is usually bang on, but I strongly disagree with you on this subject.)


    You are correct in that your liver will dump, and bring your blood sugar up, and that fat will convert, but...for the most efficient performance of both body and mind...glucose...from carbs....(simple, or complex) is the body's preferred method, and prevents the famine response.

    You can read up on this.

    At the very low end...you need about 75 grams of carbs for proper brain function. Yes, you can go into ketosis, etc...but...that's not what you should be doing because is leans you towards metabolic syndrome (that of a slug).

    I've also seen the documentary on the Eskimos, but, they do not have the same makeup as folks domestically. I.e., it's genetic to them (you need to watch the whole program).

    You are also correct that in a sedentary society, too much glucose (from any source), causing too high of blood sugar, for too long, leads to type to type 2 diabetes (insulin tolerance via messed up insulin receptors). That does NOT means carbs are bad.
  • mz29xy

    Posts: 37

    Dec 07, 2012 6:46 AM GMT
    mindgarden saidOk now we're totally off into lala land, misinformation and plain old lies.

    /thread


    I do medical and health research professionally and am a nutritionist, one of the best people to explain the issue in plain english is Nora T. Gedgaudas in her book Primal Body, Primal Mind.

    Mark Sisson is more well known with the Primal Blueprint and other works.
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    Dec 07, 2012 6:48 AM GMT
    Medjai said
    paulflexes saidWait...you're on a diet that doesn't allow for the occasional "unhealthy goodness" meal?

    Dude, do Paleo. Fuck the fad diets. They only make you crave other foods.


    Pros and cons aside, are you actually suggesting that Paleo isn't a fad diet as well?


    QFT lol. Follow the government guidelines. Best advice ever. Choosemyplate.gov.

    Or you can trust people who give diet advice that aren't PhDs who go to conferences full time on their university salaries to come up with these guidelines. Some people become experts because they wrote a book on it and spent money on marketing. And then people follow them!!!! Kind of like scientology.
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    Dec 07, 2012 6:50 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    chuckystud said
    mz29xy saidYou really do NEED carbs... vegetable carbs like leafy greens, broccoli, etc. Human beings didn't even start having autoimmune diseases like lupus, sclera derma, etc. until we started eating grains (simple carbs).


    Grains aren't simple carbs. DOH.

    Back to the books for you.

    Read up on glycemic indexes.

    (I hate this when folks are SO FAR OFF.)

    Complex carbs are bullshit....they should be called complex sugars. Your body breaks them down so fast (starting with saliva in the mouth) that they are quickly turned into monosaccharides and absorbed. No one absorbs "complex carbs"....they're all broken down. The "complex" part only slows down the process slightly.


    Technically....tightly bonded (fats / lipid), not so tightly (MCT, and alcohol), less tightly (sucrose / frutose)...not at all tightly...(dextrose, maltose)....carbon chains...
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    Dec 07, 2012 6:54 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    chuckystud said
    mz29xy saidYou really do NEED carbs... vegetable carbs like leafy greens, broccoli, etc. Human beings didn't even start having autoimmune diseases like lupus, sclera derma, etc. until we started eating grains (simple carbs).


    Grains aren't simple carbs. DOH.

    Back to the books for you.

    Read up on glycemic indexes.

    (I hate this when folks are SO FAR OFF.)

    Complex carbs are bullshit....they should be called complex sugars. Your body breaks them down so fast (starting with saliva in the mouth) that they are quickly turned into monosaccharides and absorbed. No one absorbs "complex carbs"....they're all broken down. The "complex" part only slows down the process slightly.


    Yes. That's called glycemic index (the rate at which your glucose levels rise). Higher indexes correlate with higher insulin responses. However, insulin decays on a different curve that the blood sugar rises....hence...that's why folks who eat "fast" carbs end up hungry (the insulin doesn't go down in direct relation to blood glucose levels, and you end up with a blood sugar slump). That's why you eat starches / grains / slower carbs (unrefined grains) for stable blood sugar levels, less spiked insulin / fat storage levels. For stable blood sugar, clarity of mind, and good athletic performance you eat carbs that digest slower. For post workout...you WANT insulin response to shuttle glycogen into the cell, along with nutrition.

    During athletic performance (especially anaerobic) you can bring fast sugars on as you go. (Doing three sets of heavy leg presses can drop your blood sugar 80 points.)

    Understanding the insulin response is key to bodybuilding, incidentally.
  • mz29xy

    Posts: 37

    Dec 07, 2012 7:07 AM GMT
    chuckystud said
    yourname2000 said
    chuckystud said
    mz29xy saidYou really do NEED carbs... vegetable carbs like leafy greens, broccoli, etc. Human beings didn't even start having autoimmune diseases like lupus, sclera derma, etc. until we started eating grains (simple carbs).


    Grains aren't simple carbs. DOH.

    Back to the books for you.

    Read up on glycemic indexes.

    (I hate this when folks are SO FAR OFF.)

    Complex carbs are bullshit....they should be called complex sugars. Your body breaks them down so fast (starting with saliva in the mouth) that they are quickly turned into monosaccharides and absorbed. No one absorbs "complex carbs"....they're all broken down. The "complex" part only slows down the process slightly.


    Technically....tightly bonded (fats / lipid), not so tightly (MCT, and alcohol), less tightly (sucrose / frutose)...not at all tightly...(dextrose, maltose)....carbon chains...


    White rice is a simple carb in that it it is just the simple sugar. All rice starts out as brown, black, red or whatever variation. The outer shell with the nutrients, phytonutrients, vitamins and endosperm is hulled to make two products: 1. flour for baking and 2. white rice.

    Historically white rice was more expensive in Japan and the poor used to have to eat brown rice. The wealthier Japanese ended up having more nutrient deficiencies because of eating the white rice as well as weight issues.

    One of the problems more concerning to me is that all grains, except corn cause an immune reaction/inflammation and elevation of C-reactive protein akin to leukocytosis.

    I hit the "books" every day and am certified/licensed in holistic nutrition.
  • LJay

    Posts: 11612

    Dec 07, 2012 7:43 AM GMT
    Oh hell. Brown rice tastes better.

    Of course you need carbs. As a type 2 diabetic, I am told to do 60 grams of carbs three times per day. If one serving of the item has five or more grams of fiber, I can subtract that 5 grams from the total. Thus, your Dreamlands (overpriced) spaghetti would have 36 grams per servings net. Just check labels. As my doc says, "Carbs is carbs." A big thing here is to get a scale and a set of measures and observe portion sizes. You will soon learn where the carbs and fiber are. Bulghur will sound wonderful and kale will become a saint. Veggies are miracles and meat is good, too. Fresh fruits become a mystical blessing and you will simply lose interest in the sweet stuff. And guess what? It tastes better.
  • mz29xy

    Posts: 37

    Dec 07, 2012 12:27 PM GMT
    If my doctor thought all carbs are a like in form and function in the body "carbs are carbs," I'd get a new doctor.

    Type 2 dibetes is just resistance of insulin at the cellular level. Insulin can't get into the cell and turn the crank shaft that's 20 times larger than the insulin molecule because the cells have gotten gunked up in what some integrative doctors term a lack of oxygen homeostasis at the cellular level. The cells are gunked up with everything from environmental toxins to hydrogenated fats - for example, vegetable oil is in everything and used in most restaurants. It is a polyunsaturated oil that once heated turns hydrogenated and takes over 51 days to clear from the body at a cellular level - if it all becomes to much for the body to clear up then you have a lack of oxygen homeostasis because your cells really can't breath well. Clean up the diet (a lot of raw and steamed vegetables with some meat, no sugar and NO sugar substitute products which mostly turn into formaldehyde in the body as well as detoxing to include using products like Advanced Bionutritionals Pectasol and drink enough water and Type 2 diabetes completely goes away (non detectable). The problem is that once a Type 2 diabetic no longer has to take medication they will have to do so again (become a type 2 again) if they start eating the way they used to. Type 2 is just food and Type 1 can be cured by doing an islet transplant or having your own stem cells injected into your pancreas, but that only lasts for 4 years before you need another injection because of the life cycle of those cells.
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Dec 07, 2012 3:27 PM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    chuckystud saidYou NEED carbs. Never, ever, never, eat less than 100 grams of carbs per day.

    Ideally, you should have a bit of a starchy carb at every meal, and a fast carb, as well as a slower one, post workout.

    You train your body to become a fat storing machine. What you are doing is largely counter productive.

    Really Chucky? So what are the "essential carbs"? I know there are essential amino acids and essential fatty acids, but there are no essential carbs. Your body can make its own from fat and protein. Granted there are a couple of important organs that only utilize glucose as fuel (including your brain!) but the amount is so small that you can go weeks using carbs already stored or converted in your body.

    The Innu used to live 6 months of the year on seal and whale blubber....no carbs. In fact, they didn't even have a word for diabetes until the were (foolishly) enticed to switch to a western diet.

    (And I love ya, bud...your advice is usually bang on, but I strongly disagree with you on this subject.)


    Your body can, but your brain can't. Your brain will only run off of glucose and ketones, the former of which your body can't synthesize, and the latter is a byproduct of muscular breakdown.

    So while the rest of the body can use most carbon chain molecules as an energy source, 40% of your calories go to your brain, and that will either come from consumed carbs, or from digesting your own body. Take your pick.
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Dec 07, 2012 3:28 PM GMT
    mz29xy saidYou really do NEED carbs... vegetable carbs like leafy greens, broccoli, etc. Human beings didn't even start having autoimmune diseases like lupus, sclera derma, etc. until we started eating grains (simple carbs).


    Really? I didn't know health records went back 20000kya...
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    Dec 07, 2012 11:31 PM GMT
    Medjai said
    paulflexes saidWait...you're on a diet that doesn't allow for the occasional "unhealthy goodness" meal?

    Dude, do Paleo. Fuck the fad diets. They only make you crave other foods.


    Pros and cons aside, are you actually suggesting that Paleo isn't a fad diet as well?
    The Paleo Diet is a fad. The Paleo concept is not a fad. It's just removing grains (including bread), dairy, and processed foods from your diet...MOST of the time. You can still eat plenty of carbs (both good and bad ones) pretty regularly without worrying about backsliding on your progress.
  • gwuinsf

    Posts: 525

    Dec 08, 2012 12:25 AM GMT
    For those who are anti-Paleo, I would like to ask this: by removing dairy and grains from one's diet, what nutrients are you depriving yourself that are impossible to get in other foods?

    I don't think anyone will argue that removing processed foods from one's diet is going to have a negative impact on one's diet. But if you're going to argue that Paleo is bad, then the message I'm hearing is that I'm depriving myself of some critical nutrients by not eating grains or dairy. Fiber and calcium are plentiful in many other foods besides grains and dairy. So what am I not getting? Please educate me those who proclaim to be so much more well read than others. I really do want to be convinced that I'm wrong but so far none of your arguments or waving your degree in my face has convinced me.

    BTW, Paleo does not advocate NO carb. It advocates no processed carbs.
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Dec 08, 2012 12:46 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    Medjai said
    mz29xy saidYou really do NEED carbs... vegetable carbs like leafy greens, broccoli, etc. Human beings didn't even start having autoimmune diseases like lupus, sclera derma, etc. until we started eating grains (simple carbs).


    Really? I didn't know health records went back 20000kya...

    They actually do. When wheat was introduced, people got shorter and lived shorter lives.


    Really? I'd like to see your source on that. Something peer reviewed.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Dec 08, 2012 1:02 AM GMT
    if you want a pasta treat that won't upset your diet, try something made from rice flower