Friends telling me he is a liar, and to be careful...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 08, 2012 6:13 PM GMT
    Here is the short and sweet of it all:
    Met a guy on scruff. Had coffee. Got pretty open and deep about much of our lives, including his fight and success with cancer. Felt OK about him after coffee. He is 13 years older, which is OK with me. Had three in person dates. He seems very, very honest and open. Shares a lot. Prides himself on his honesty and forthrightness. I like that. Super sexy. He's travelling right now and we Skype here and there.

    Then I tell a friend his name, and that we are dating. Friend says, "be careful, he's a cheater. He's cheated on everyone he has ever dated. He is always going to put himself first." I'm shocked by this, obviously. I confront him firmly but kindly. He reassures me there are lots of bad rumors about him that float around, but he never cheated.

    Fine. I move on and let go of that. Then I'm chatting with a second friend who runs in different social circles. That friend's face drops when I tell him who I am dating. This friend tells me he is a pathological liar. Friend says, "Did he tell you about having cancer? That never happened." I am of course, even more shocked.

    Thoughts? I can provide more details, but this is already too long.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 08, 2012 6:42 PM GMT
    Which do you trust more: the word of your two friends or the word of one guy you're dating?
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    Dec 08, 2012 6:47 PM GMT
    Open communication is needed. Sounds like you're doing that. Your new guy acknowledges there are "lots of bad rumors that float around" about him. I'd ask him why this is. How did those rumors start? What kind of people are making them up and spreading them? I'd be interested in his answers to those questions. Are his hands clean? Is this just a jealousy situation? Are some people envious of him? Has he possibly burned anyone in business? Has he got a bi-polar ex who made crap up about him? I'd just communicate with him and then see what shakes out.
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    Dec 09, 2012 1:42 AM GMT
    Something doesn't seem right. You met a guy on scruff and random friends of yours know who he is? Sounds like this guy has been around the park quite a few times. icon_confused.gif
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    Dec 09, 2012 2:08 AM GMT
    Tough call. Guys can get bad reputations unfairly started by spiteful former lovers, and the stories take on a life of their own, getting more exaggerated with each retelling. Or the slanders are coming from guys who are jealous of your good fortune in landing him, and might also be hoping to steal the guy away from you for themselves, once you drop him.

    I had the latter happen to me several times, particularly when I began dating a certain guy whom many in our gay community viewed as a real catch. I knew some guys thought I didn't "deserve" him, too good for me, a guy who could have anyone he wanted, incomprehensible why he would waste his time with me. And they'd tell me all kinds of awful stories about him for which I never saw any proof, not even indirect signs or hints.

    And at the same time, some of these same guys were telling HIM dreadful untrue stories about ME, all with the goal of breaking us up. And still other guys, with no agendas of their own, would nevertheless hear these stories, too, and begin spreading them as truth about us. The gay rumor mill is a wonder to behold.

    So what's the truth here? I couldn't guess. But I'd advise taking these reports with a grain of salt, yet tempered with the same cautious approach we should take with any new guy we meet.
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    Dec 09, 2012 3:24 AM GMT
  • ThatSwimmerGu...

    Posts: 3755

    Dec 09, 2012 4:04 AM GMT
    He sounds like a liar. Trust your friends. Have you thought about talking to the guy again and saying how you hate liars and that your glad he is honest and see how he reacts?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 09, 2012 4:09 AM GMT
    You need to check his background, If it is true. I would trust my friends. You know gay friends always know what's going in the closet
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    Dec 09, 2012 4:13 AM GMT
    hmmmm this is why i never involve or tell friends who i am dating...as they always make you question things and ruin a potential good thing. The best thing i can say is..keep your guards up as you have two persons telling you stuff..But then again whats the point of seeing someone if you already have doubts about them..see your friends totally ruined it for you before it even started.
  • mybud

    Posts: 11837

    Dec 09, 2012 4:15 AM GMT
    Dude....you got two strikes already...If it was me, I'd pick up my balls and live to play another day...Much luck....
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    Dec 09, 2012 6:28 AM GMT
    Thanks guys for all your time in replying. I spoke with him about the rumors directly, and he was very understanding and open about all of them.

    Jockbod48Open communication is needed. Sounds like you're doing that. Your new guy acknowledges there are "lots of bad rumors that float around" about him. I'd ask him why this is. How did those rumors start? What kind of people are making them up and spreading them? I'd be interested in his answers to those questions. Are his hands clean? Is this just a jealousy situation? Are some people envious of him? Has he possibly burned anyone in business? Has he got a bi-polar ex who made crap up about him? I'd just communicate with him and then see what shakes out.


    I did just this above. I asked all those questions. His responses felt genuine and from a good place. He didn't become reactive. He was very thoughtful. He ensures me that he will give me the time I need to trust him.

    IceBucketsSomething doesn't seem right. You met a guy on scruff and random friends of yours know who he is? Sounds like this guy has been around the park quite a few times.


    I could see why you think this, but being honest I have been around the block... granted... I'm always honest. But I meet a lot of guys, sleep with some of them, and I am sure to some it isn't flattering. But I'm always honest.

    Art_DecoThe gay rumor mill is a wonder to behold.

    So what's the truth here? I couldn't guess. But I'd advise taking these reports with a grain of salt, yet tempered with the same cautious approach we should take with any new guy we meet.


    ^^^This rings true, art_deco... I feel like he's a good guy caught in bad rumors in a small city... Gay's are interesting creatures. I could be wrong! I could get burned... but I am travelling slow and steady, and he is providing the details to calm my fears.

    NormalGuy93He sounds like a liar. Trust your friends. Have you thought about talking to the guy again and saying how you hate liars and that your glad he is honest and see how he reacts?


    I guess I kind of did this, just more directly. I told him "people are telling me these really negative things about you... what can you tell me about that?" His responses were essentially, "I know.. I know.. there are a lot of rumors about me. All I can see is they are not true, and I am a good person. Let's take time to gain trust."

    tereseus1hmmmm this is why i never involve or tell friends who i am dating...as they always make you question things and ruin a potential good thing.


    I could see why not involving friends would keep a clear perspective, but I did enjoy receiving this information. It gave me an opportunity to approach the guy about the rumors, and to see how he reacted to them. I did feel much closer based on his responses, and he is even going to provide paper-based documentation to clear up on of the rumors that I brought to his attention. Fact-based proof will really make me feel closer.

    Overall problem resolved! Thanks guys! Love these forums. I am also comforted by the fact that I feel like I could show him this post, and he would be rational, and kind, and tell me that he understands me seeking objective, outside perspectives. He might actually be a good catch... with some unfortunate baggage. OR... I'm doomed for a roller coaster ride with a psychopath, but I don't think so.
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    Dec 09, 2012 6:29 AM GMT
    Oh and thanks GAMRican for the coco video. Love her hahaha.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 09, 2012 6:47 AM GMT
    Prides himself on his honesty and forthrightness

    [quote][cite][/cite]I am a good person[/quote]

    Those two ring a bell for me.
    Might just be a cultural difference (I'm french), but I have more trust toward someone opening on his weakness and imperfections than toward someone telling me they think they are good.

    As a side note, a pathological liar and manipulator, specially an older one, will have decade of experience about telling the right things with the right tone.
    If I can feel emotions watching professional actor simulating them in movies, I believe non professional actors with low or non existent moral values can make a good sexual hunt using the exact same skills.

    Again, a guy like that will have decades of experience, thousandth of repeats of his role. You are no match.

    How can you know if he is genuine or skilled manipulator ?

    Watch what he does, not what he says.
    Ask detail to your friends. Because if it's more than rumors, they should be able to pin point who has been cheated. If not, it's just rumor.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 09, 2012 6:49 AM GMT
    Just who is your friend again? Since everyone seem to know him? ;p
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    Dec 09, 2012 7:18 AM GMT
    Where there's smoke, there's fire.

    You seem far too eager to believe your date and discount your friends' advice. The mere fact that the guy has rumours floating around should set off a lot of alarms. I'm not saying disbelieve him on all fronts, just excercise the type of "professional skepticism" an auditor would show.

    I knew a (straight) guy who was really good-looking and exceeding charming with women, and had no problems getting them, but OMG was he toxic. I began to see a pattern in the women drawn to him: they were all hopeless romantics who seemed to get annoyed when their friends started asking the kind of uncomfortable questions the girlfriends should have been asking themselves. I thought they were so desperate for a relationship with a guy who seemed to be a great catch that they were willfully blind.

    Good luck; hopefully he's an innocent victim for your sake. I just hope you don't get burned.
  • He_Man

    Posts: 906

    Dec 09, 2012 7:47 AM GMT


    Aw, you didn't have him first fill out THE dating application?

    You need to get at least three previous boyfriends telephone numbers, three personal references, drug testing results (STD while you're at it) and his criminal background checked out. Oh, and in case you get a little rough, an emergency contact of his closest family or kin.

    It could be a six-month process, but it'll save you a lot of hassle and headache.

    Hahaha.. No, really, I would heed your friends warnings. If you want to give him a chance, then do it, but take baby steps until he can win your trust. Trust and respect must be earned, not something that can be freely given. So, don't invest too much emotions and physical energy just yet until you can establish that trust.

    I dated a guy for six months, fell in love with him and moved to a different city to be with him. Within the first month I was there, I found out he was a freaking sociopath who uses people and who suddenly became heartless and emotionless and was hugely addicted to internet porn. I also found out that he was having sex chats with men online, talking about meeting up with them and getting off to guys on line throughout our whole relationship. You never really know someone until you live with them. We only see what they are willing to show us. I just wished I had friends who knew him and that would have warned me.

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    Dec 09, 2012 8:13 AM GMT
    Pathological or not... there would always be an answer to that notion. You would better know him if you are living together or even in the consistency of his words during more skype. My advice is, don't be a paranoid and jump to a conclusion you aren't sure of. If he is really into you, you would feel it like spending more skype with you whenever he is far and rumour has destroyed it's reputation so don't rely on friends because oftentimes, they are concern about you that they would say against your bf even without really knowing your bf at all.

    Finally, If you find out it's pathological lie, does it mean he cannot be trusted in a relationship or he would want to say i am old and please have a more time of coffee brakes for me. Yes, pathological liars need attention and not about the other way around that you could possibly think of.
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    Dec 09, 2012 8:17 AM GMT
    I'm thinking that you already know the answer to your question but you just don't wanna call it quits....icon_smile.gif I'd get out ASAP because if he'd lie about having cancer, imagine what else he'd lie about....abandon ship while it's still on the surface icon_wink.gif
  • Mazdaman_24

    Posts: 14

    Dec 09, 2012 8:20 AM GMT
    I'd say YOLO, just dont get too emotionally attached for awhile and play safe. I wouldn't confront him again so soon, but maybe do it indirectly. Talk a little about things that your friends said he lied about. It may be walking on thin ice but maybe talk more about the cancer, where he got treatment, what it was like, did the meds make him sick etc. Then research the heck out of it.
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    Dec 09, 2012 9:15 AM GMT
    My biggest fear is that he is an expert manipulator, and I know that I am not some magical creature who he "won't be able to dupe." I know that if he is an expert manipulator that I might not find out until way down the road. That thought is scary.

    I also plan on inquiring more and more with friends and people that know him. The more data that I collect, the more comfortable I will certainly feel about either decision: to move on or to believe he is a good soul. In fact, I am sitting down to coffee this week with one if his exes who spent five years with him. It will be good to get that perspective, and I told my guy that I would be having this cup of coffee with his ex. He encouraged me to do it.

    I am not eager to believe this guy. I just want to be sure I give him a fair shot, that is all. And, I am the opposite of a "hopeless romantic." I do not believe in "the one" and I'm quite polyamorous minded. So is this guy. It's one of the things we have connected over. The honesty and forthrightness needed for polyamory. So I definitely believe that if this doesn't work out there are hundreds of other men I could potentially build meaningful connections with throughout my life.

    He_Man, sorry for your painful experience. It makes me think that I should take things incredibly slow, which is healthy anyway. I will also pay much more attention to his actions and less attention to his words.

    BlackCat - I see where you're coming from. I honestly thought about calling it quits. I really did! But that felt dishonest on my part, and rather sudden. I'm just going to stick it out for a little bit longer to see how things feel. I am going to be brutally honest with him, and tell him all that I hear. I do like him but I'm not head over heels. Slow and steady.

    MazdaMan_24 - The interesting thing is that I confronted him directly about the cancer and told him that I want to see medical records. I told him that I know it's a bit demanding but it will calm my concerns and will help me put it in the past that he was lying. He was fully understanding and plans on providing them when he arrives home from his vacation. Now granted, I may never see them! But if I do, then I know the truth. If it becomes a struggle or fight to actually see them, I will quickly lose interest and be done.

    Thanks again everyone. Critical (group) thinking at its finest!
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    Dec 09, 2012 9:24 AM GMT
    GAMRican said


    He pees for a really long time
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 09, 2012 9:26 AM GMT
    Carrie wrote a song about your guy




    she says "you better run for your life"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 09, 2012 9:50 AM GMT
    it's you who should decide whom to believe and what to do next...
    But as for my little short exprience i would lean towards my two friends than this new guy
    but again, it all goes to you to decide
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Dec 09, 2012 11:02 AM GMT
    JerseyJames75 saidI am not eager to believe this guy. I just want to be sure I give him a fair shot, that is all.


    You're clearly doing the right things. It's possible to be both grateful for friendly warnings and willing to take a chance.

    He could be a liar, cheater, and manipulator. He could be a liar, cheater, and manipulator who's grown and changed. Or he could be someone who made mistakes that have been blown out of proportion. Who knows?

    It's sounds like you've opted to communicate and to tread carefully -- that's a lot smarter than just writing him off this early based on hearsay. I would just caution you not to tread so carefully you allow his past to poison YOUR future.

    I think you are being extremely reasonable about this. I'm actually jealous of your maturity.
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    Dec 09, 2012 1:50 PM GMT
    JerseyJames75 saidMy biggest fear is that he is an expert manipulator, and I know that I am not some magical creature who he "won't be able to dupe." I know that if he is an expert manipulator that I might not find out until way down the road. That thought is scary.

    Yes, those types do exist, and I've dated at least one of them. My pattern is to be constantly looking for inconsistencies & obvious falsehoods on my own when I first meet a guy, without waiting for others to be whispering warnings into my ear. Serial liars will trip themselves up sooner or later.

    At the same time, once I'm satisfied and committed to a guy, I'll believe pretty much anything he says. If my partner were to tell me that cows are falling from the sky, I'd ask him if I should move the car. Once I give a guy my love, I switch off my suspicion meter. But getting to that point is a long road.

    I already mentioned a couple of scenarios where "helpful" friends will diss on your BF, that I've experienced myself. In one the motivation is jealousy, and in the other they covet your BF for themselves. But I forgot to list a third I continue to face with some of my own friends.

    That's the guy who needs to feel needed & important by providing you with important advice that's gonna make you feel obligated to him, if not dependent, unable to function without his advice. It's closely related to the meddler personality. Gay men are particularly prone to this, and I don't exempt myself, as these forums attest.

    And much of the time this advice takes the form of warnings, aka scare tactics. These guys are "saving" you from something, that you would otherwise know nothing about. And in so doing they hope you'll begin to rely upon them, find them indispensable, showering them with thanks and cementing your friendship.

    All friends help & advise each other, but beware the ones who try to help you too much, like mothers who can't cut the apron strings. And in giving too many warnings too freely the quality gets diluted, facts distorted, the mission shifting from helping others to bolstering & promoting themselves. In a way it's flattering to think someone has an agenda to help us, but some are just helping themselves, advancing their own reputations and inner needs to feel important & needed. Except at times it comes at our expense.

    But having provided these alternative explanations for your situation, I must say your more recent posts incline me in the opposite direction. That is, he does sound like an expert manipulator, or at least has the potential for it. So be extra careful, and do the prudent checking you've mentioned here. And I think we'd enjoy learning what the final verdict is, to add to our own relationship databases.