Cultural differences caused a suicide?

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    Dec 09, 2012 5:08 AM GMT
    Ok i didn't really see anyone post on here about this incident. A Australian radio station pulled a prank whereby they called the hospital where Kate Middleton was admitted. They pretended to be the Queen and prince Charles..inquiring about Middletons health. Well needless to say the nurse gave out information that was not overly sensitive or a secret. Needless to say the day after the nurse committed suicide.

    Now the nurse is from a Indian family. It is considered a shame to ones family if you somehow cause an embarrassment. No one could have guessed the outcome of a rather silly harmless phone call. Its best to summarize that this is about cultural differences and how our cultures affect our emotional inability to deal with personal embarrassment - Or “Saving Face” as it is commonly referred to. This nurse was from East Asia and had no real connection to the pride of Britain’s royalty...What she could not handle - was the public shame of having been duped - as minor as it was.

    What are your thoughts on the issue? And do you believe the family could sue the radio station for a wrongful death case?

    Prank call
    [url][/url]

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/08/world/europe/uk-royal-hospital-death/index.html?iref=allsearch
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    Dec 09, 2012 5:55 AM GMT
    I'm about to make myself very unpopular and state the DJ's should not be held responsible for the death of the nurse.

    It is an absolute tragedy that someone is dead over this incident. Yes, this was an embarassment to this nurse and likely the hospital. However, I suspect the nurse had some mounting emotional problems and this incident sent her over the edge. Anyone in a stable state of mind would not have even considered suicide for something like this prank.

    Everyone, is looking to place blame and the DJ's are obvious candidates. Does this mean we should condemn Dick Clark for his years of Candid Camera? Ellen Degeneres for her hidden camera pranks? Of course not. Once things settle , I hope people will look at this as the tragedy of a very sensitive woman possibly suffering from some culture shock trying to excel and making her family proud.

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    Dec 09, 2012 4:02 PM GMT
    26mileman saidI'm about to make myself very unpopular and state the DJ's should not be held responsible for the death of the nurse.

    It is an absolute tragedy that someone is dead over this incident. Yes, this was an embarassment to this nurse and likely the hospital. However, I suspect the nurse had some mounting emotional problems and this incident sent her over the edge. Anyone in a stable state of mind would not have even considered suicide for something like this prank.

    Everyone, is looking to place blame and the DJ's are obvious candidates. Does this mean we should condemn Dick Clark for his years of Candid Camera? Ellen Degeneres for her hidden camera pranks? Of course not. Once things settle , I hope people will look at this as the tragedy of a very sensitive woman possibly suffering from some culture shock trying to excel and making her family proud.



    I have to agree with you. Yes, the djs were idiots to pull off the prank, but you can't hold them responsible for the fragile frame of mind the nurse was in.

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    Dec 09, 2012 4:19 PM GMT
    26mileman saidI'm about to make myself very unpopular and state the DJ's should not be held responsible for the death of the nurse.

    It is an absolute tragedy that someone is dead over this incident. Yes, this was an embarassment to this nurse and likely the hospital. However, I suspect the nurse had some mounting emotional problems and this incident sent her over the edge. Anyone in a stable state of mind would not have even considered suicide for something like this prank.

    Everyone, is looking to place blame and the DJ's are obvious candidates. Does this mean we should condemn Dick Clark for his years of Candid Camera? Ellen Degeneres for her hidden camera pranks? Of course not. Once things settle , I hope people will look at this as the tragedy of a very sensitive woman possibly suffering from some culture shock trying to excel and making her family proud.



    This won't make you unpopular at all. Very well-reasoned.

    I think if the radio station owner elects to can the DJs for the bad publicity this incident generated, that's within their right. But that's about as much "holding responsible" as can be expected in this case.

    I absolutely despise the pranks and "What Would YOU Do?" situational theater our media exposes random people to unwittingly participate in. The DJs aren't expected, though, to be aware of whatever cultural values the person who picks up the phone personally embraces. If anything, the "Don't F with the Royal Family!" cultural value is the only one the Australian DJs could be expected to know in advance of conducting a prank.
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    Dec 09, 2012 4:34 PM GMT
    Just to be clear the nurse who took her life only transferred the incoming call to the ward. I don't see how there could be any shame and suspect she had problems well before the royals were admitted.
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    Dec 09, 2012 4:35 PM GMT
    To be honest, I thought the prank was hilarious, because no matter how bad the mimicking was, it brought to reality how human our royals are.

    The English are furious, using the excuse of the death of the nurse to accuse the pranksters of having blood on their hands, but in reality, I tend to believe that the nation's wrath is due to having their pie-in-the-sky fantasy of the Firm suddenly brought down to earth.

    The suicide of the nurse who took the phone call was a tragedy. But she was not in line for discipline by the hospital management nor, for that matter, from Buckingham Palace or any among Members of Parliament.

    Her shame and embarrassment arising from her Asian background could be the likeliest theory why she took her own life.
  • ursa_minor

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    Dec 09, 2012 4:59 PM GMT
    I wouldn't make a comparison between Candid Camera's or Ellen's antics with this one.

    1) None of those above resulted in death.
    2) The issue involves breach of privacy involving a professional institution and the Royal Family. Imagine bearing both weights on your psyche.

    It wasn't her who divulged private info about Kate, but she let the call in, and makes her responsible for the breach.

    In an extreme case, if someone dies from a heart attack due to Horror/Scaring prank, would you say it was all done in jest? There is direct causality.

    So let's say a bunch of homophobic dudes teased a suspected gay guy which leads him to kill himself....
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    Dec 09, 2012 5:04 PM GMT
    I blame our media's obnoxious obsession with the personal lives of British royalty. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • training_guy

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    Dec 09, 2012 5:20 PM GMT
    Of course we should blame the stupid DJ's - I mean who in there right mind pranks a hospital??? Disgusting! I hope they lose there jobs.

    Poor lady, she sounded like a highly proffesional nurse, who was mortified by her mistake. Still who knows what was going through her mind. So sad & for her children too.
  • training_guy

    Posts: 271

    Dec 09, 2012 5:24 PM GMT
    NotThatOld said

    The English are furious, using the excuse of the death of the nurse to accuse the pranksters of having blood on their hands, but in reality, I tend to believe that the nation's wrath is due to having their pie-in-the-sky fantasy of the Firm suddenly brought down to earth.



    Not sure how you came up with that one! No one has fantastys about the Firm, they are human like the rest of us. The nation's warth is directed at two stupid DJ's who should no better then to prank a hospital.
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    Dec 09, 2012 5:29 PM GMT
    26mileman saidI'm about to make myself very unpopular and state the DJ's should not be held responsible for the death of the nurse.


    Why would that be unpopular?

    No one "makes" a grown woman kill herself.
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    Dec 09, 2012 5:33 PM GMT
    I'm sorry, but I seriously do not understand how this adds up.
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    Dec 09, 2012 5:33 PM GMT
    ursa_minor saidThe issue involves breach of privacy involving a professional institution and the Royal Family. Imagine bearing both weights on your psyche.


    ^^ I think this is what it comes down to. As one commenter on a Yahoo news report puts it...

    In the US, this breach of a patient's privacy rights would result in your instant termination (HIPAA Laws) and a lawsuit. She faced professional ruin, public humiliation and career dead end...

    Even a mentally stable individual could become extremely distressed in a situation like this. Had she been terminated in such a public manner, I'd imagine how hard it would be for her to find another job. While the hospital has released that they had no plans to reprimand her, I question whether or not that's true and they're just lying because the woman is now dead. And even if they really didn't plan on reprimanding her, I wonder if they actually told her that they didn't have such plans.

    I come from a family of nurses, my mom: my brother, my aunts, and now my cousins as they finish up school. As if the nursing profession wasn't stressful enough in and of itself, they're always on edge about malpractice lawsuits.

    In any case, police haven't released a cause of death yet, nor has anyone necessarily determined the motive was suicide beyond media speculation. This is more speculation on my part, but the physiological responses from the stress caused by the situation could have very well physically killed her. Who knows?
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    Dec 09, 2012 5:36 PM GMT
    Larkin said
    26mileman saidI'm about to make myself very unpopular and state the DJ's should not be held responsible for the death of the nurse.


    Why would that be unpopular?

    No one "makes" a grown woman kill herself.


    I think he was comparing his view to what ursa_minor said

    "So let's say a bunch of homophobic dudes teased a suspected gay guy which leads him to kill himself....

  • bfirbs

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    Dec 09, 2012 5:37 PM GMT
    I don't think the DJ's should have pranked the hospital, but I don't think they should be charged either. I do think they should have to make a radio broadcasted appology to the family. Which hopefully they have already done.
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    Dec 09, 2012 8:06 PM GMT
    NotThatOld saidTo be honest, I thought the prank was hilarious, because no matter how bad the mimicking was, it brought to reality how human our royals are.

    The English are furious, using the excuse of the death of the nurse to accuse the pranksters of having blood on their hands, but in reality, I tend to believe that the nation's wrath is due to having their pie-in-the-sky fantasy of the Firm suddenly brought down to earth.

    The suicide of the nurse who took the phone call was a tragedy. But she was not in line for discipline by the hospital management nor, for that matter, from Buckingham Palace or any among Members of Parliament.

    Her shame and embarrassment arising from her Asian background could be the likeliest theory why she took her own life.


    Where are people getting all these conspiracy theories from? No I don't think a 'cultural difference' led the woman to kill herself. If anything, seeing as she was a mother of two moderately young children it would have encouraged her to stick around for them.

    And no one I've spoken to in England really mentions the DJ's as being partly to blame. They've just found it strange that a grown woman with a family, and hasn't been said to have any known mental disorders killed herself for something so minor.

    Edit I just reread the OP's statement. It is one of the stupidest things I've ever read, trying to paint itself up as being insightful.
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    Dec 09, 2012 10:07 PM GMT
    karson said
    NotThatOld saidTo be honest, I thought the prank was hilarious, because no matter how bad the mimicking was, it brought to reality how human our royals are.

    The English are furious, using the excuse of the death of the nurse to accuse the pranksters of having blood on their hands, but in reality, I tend to believe that the nation's wrath is due to having their pie-in-the-sky fantasy of the Firm suddenly brought down to earth.

    The suicide of the nurse who took the phone call was a tragedy. But she was not in line for discipline by the hospital management nor, for that matter, from Buckingham Palace or any among Members of Parliament.

    Her shame and embarrassment arising from her Asian background could be the likeliest theory why she took her own life.


    Where are people getting all these conspiracy theories from? No I don't think a 'cultural difference' led the woman to kill herself. If anything, seeing as she was a mother of two moderately young children it would have encouraged her to stick around for them.

    And no one I've spoken to in England really mentions the DJ's as being partly to blame. They've just found it strange that a grown woman with a family, and hasn't been said to have any known mental disorders killed herself for something so minor.

    Edit I just reread the OP's statement. It is one of the stupidest things I've ever read, trying to paint itself up as being insightful.


    You realize you on the same line as bullies thinking their victim are overreacting and should take it like a man ?

    And as for your flat hand rejection that cultural difference (specially about shame/honor) can be significant, I'm all about hearing where you take that from ? Your long experience about living several years in many different countries ? Your extensive studies of sociology ?
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    Dec 09, 2012 11:02 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidHym, I honestly can't see the shame that this nurse endured from taking this phone call. If anything I think the Australian radio DJ's were mocking the queen and prince Charles, making a parody of their lives.

    I don't know how long this Indian nurse lived in Australia but, unless she just moved to Australia very recently and wasn't accustomed to a different culture, I am left wondering how she was so ill prepared to handle this type of situation. If you go to another country and can't take their way of joking then should you really be there in the first place?

    There was no form of abuse, no scare tactics involved (which could, in some rare cases, induce heart attack or stroke, etc.) that these Australian DJ's used on anyone. They simply posed as someone else on the phone and simply asked the medical condition of a person. If a nurse is willing to provide medical updates over the phone s/he should be aware that anyone can be on the other end posing as someone else.

    Maybe the nurse was on edge about other aspects to her life and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I personally can't believe a married woman !!WITH TWO CHILDREN!! threw her life away after a less than two minute phone conversation.


    But it was public, not private. The DJ disregarded, forgot, or didn't care that should could well lose her job and have quite an hard time finding one after that.
    That is abuse, not private joke.
    Now, I don't think they are guilty of her death, but they are responsible of the distress she went through.
  • Aodhan

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    Dec 09, 2012 11:05 PM GMT
    My guess is her boss and staff may have put her in a stressful place where she was humiliated and under pressure.
    The royals are obviously a big deal she may have felt terrible.

    The radio presenters had no business doing that though

    poor women and her kids
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    Dec 09, 2012 11:11 PM GMT
    training_guy said
    NotThatOld said

    The English are furious, using the excuse of the death of the nurse to accuse the pranksters of having blood on their hands, but in reality, I tend to believe that the nation's wrath is due to having their pie-in-the-sky fantasy of the Firm suddenly brought down to earth.



    Not sure how you came up with that one! No one has fantastys about the Firm, they are human like the rest of us. The nation's warth is directed at two stupid DJ's who should no better then to prank a hospital.


    Pie-in-the-sky fantasy of the Firm.

    Apparently you have not noticed that this year was the Queen's Diamond Jubilee, ending with multiple thousands, perhaps millions, crowding the Mall for a glimpse of the Royal Family as they stood on that famous Palace balcony.

    This is far more than mere allegiance. It is adoration, dare to say, worship. This means that the English see the Queen and her family members as gods, totally above reproach and devoid of any human weakness.

    Two things I like to bring up here.

    1. Can you point out any other nation on this planet who not only worship their monarch like we do, but actually broadcast globally?

    2. A newspaper journalist has reported that the crowds were 100% white. This seem to indicate that our monarchy is purely English, the ethnic minorities in this country does not see the Queen as their Queen.

    I have listened to the video recording posted on the OP, which was confirmed by the newspapers. True enough, the mimicking was bad, but it did remind us that what goes on behind closed doors of the Palace is not unlike that of any ordinary household up and down the country, contrary to our perception of them being gods above reproach.

    And the barking dogs made the prank all the more hilarious.
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    Dec 09, 2012 11:12 PM GMT
    If someone is so weak as to take their lives over some idiot prank, rather than face the consequences of their actions then go ahead and die. This woman selfishly ended her life and did not give a damn about those she left behind. icon_evil.gif
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    Dec 09, 2012 11:22 PM GMT
    Bustamante saidIf someone is so weak as to take their lives over some idiot prank, rather than face the consequences of their actions then go ahead and die. This woman selfishly ended her life and did not give a damn about those she left behind. icon_evil.gif


    She was obviously dealing with severe mental issues that went beyound what happened at the phone call. You are being insensitive.
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    Dec 09, 2012 11:25 PM GMT
    Bustamante saidIf someone is so weak as to take their lives over some idiot prank, rather than face the consequences of their actions then go ahead and die. This woman selfishly ended her life and did not give a damn about those she left behind. icon_evil.gif


    to tell you the truth, i really don't believe that this prank was responsible for her committing suicide. I don't believe it was her cultural difference. I merely proposed it a possibility. It must have been something more personal that was already there, and this prank just pushed her over the edge.I just don't see a mother killing herself and abandoning her children over a prank phone call.
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    Dec 09, 2012 11:49 PM GMT
    minox said
    karson said
    NotThatOld saidTo be honest, I thought the prank was hilarious, because no matter how bad the mimicking was, it brought to reality how human our royals are.

    The English are furious, using the excuse of the death of the nurse to accuse the pranksters of having blood on their hands, but in reality, I tend to believe that the nation's wrath is due to having their pie-in-the-sky fantasy of the Firm suddenly brought down to earth.

    The suicide of the nurse who took the phone call was a tragedy. But she was not in line for discipline by the hospital management nor, for that matter, from Buckingham Palace or any among Members of Parliament.

    Her shame and embarrassment arising from her Asian background could be the likeliest theory why she took her own life.


    Where are people getting all these conspiracy theories from? No I don't think a 'cultural difference' led the woman to kill herself. If anything, seeing as she was a mother of two moderately young children it would have encouraged her to stick around for them.

    And no one I've spoken to in England really mentions the DJ's as being partly to blame. They've just found it strange that a grown woman with a family, and hasn't been said to have any known mental disorders killed herself for something so minor.

    Edit I just reread the OP's statement. It is one of the stupidest things I've ever read, trying to paint itself up as being insightful.


    You realize you on the same line as bullies thinking their victim are overreacting and should take it like a man ?

    And as for your flat hand rejection that cultural difference (specially about shame/honor) can be significant, I'm all about hearing where you take that from ? Your long experience about living several years in many different countries ? Your extensive studies of sociology ?



    My flat hand rejection of the cultural differences stems from
    1) It is based on the idea that an embarassment is something for which people often commit suicide for in Indian society which in itself is something I'm not sure is common.

    2) she wasn't just Indian, she was a Brit Indian. A completely different kettle of fish, I know lots of brit-Indians, I am one and this is not something I think you can call cultural.

    3) What is a well established indian cultural thing is that family is the most important thing, in a very conservative Indian environment it doesn't seem unusual for a woman with children to be a mother before everything else. The fact she had kids which she left behind means that this is completely in the opposite direction to any Indian culture.

    I actually don't know where people get the idea that shaming your family means you're supposed to commit suicide. I've heard of honour killings but this is very unusual. And honour killings vary depending on religion and how much money the family has usually but I won't go in to that because it involves some unpleasant generalisations.

    And finally I think this is different to bullies picking on a kid in school because she is a grown woman. She is an adult. And it wasn't a personal attack on her. I do think the DJ's caused her distress but I still think something else happened or someone official said something to her because it in itself would not seem like enough to cause someone to commit suicide even though it would make it hard for her to find work afterwards.

    And as for your assumption that honour killing is common among Indians of a non-poverty status in a Western country where's your fucking sociological research? You didn't need any to state that.
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    Dec 10, 2012 12:12 AM GMT
    Being of Indian descent, I can tell you that this has nothing to do with cultural differences. First of all, the woman lived in Australia; so, her culture was that of Australia too. Second, not every Indian who is embarrassed commits suicide. Third, people of all cultures commit suicide; some over reasons much less public or humiliating. Forth, she obviously had some emotional and/or mental issues to take such a drastic step. Thus, I really don’t think that the radio DJs should be held liable. They must feel bad enough (as they should), without having legal actions taken against them or the radio station.