Can these killing sprees be prevented?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 2:34 PM GMT
    How?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 3:00 PM GMT
    I know people won't like the source of this but it's instructive:

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/12/14/tragedy-in-connecticut-how-do-children-parents-move-forward/

    We should also empower our kids—especially those at Sandy Hook and all around Connecticut—to reach out to the bereaved families with cards and letters. Maybe schools around the nation will hold vigils. Those things help—the victims and the survivors and all the kids who participate.

    Beyond how to cope with the suffering of children exposed to Friday’s violence, we must make good on a commitment to rebuild our mental health care system and to better connect it to law enforcement. I know nothing about the shooter in Connecticut. And, yet, having worked for these 20 years as an adolescent, adult and forensic psychiatrist, I will tell you there is every probability that he expressed very concerning thoughts or feelings to more than one person before Friday—and those thoughts or feelings should have been acted upon much more completely than they were.

    We can do better. We must do better.

    One other thing: Those who call for gun control after incidents like this contribute nothing to the solution. Gunmen like Friday’s plan their actions, right down to wearing military garb. They could certainly procure illegal firearms or use incendiary devices to kill. I only wish the kindergarten teacher and principal in Connecticut had been armed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 3:02 PM GMT
    I think first we need to identify what are the causes.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 3:16 PM GMT
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/12/what-can-we-do-to-stop-massacres/266300/

    We must find a way to make it more difficult for the non-adjudicated mentally ill to come into possession of weapons. This is crucially important, but very difficult, because it would require the cooperation of the medical community — of psychiatrists, therapists, school counselors and the like — and the privacy issues (among other issues) are enormous. But: It has to be made more difficult for sociopaths, psychopaths and the violently mentally-ill (who, in total, make up a small portion of the mentally ill population) to buy weapons.

    People should have the ability to defend themselves. Mass shootings take many lives in part because no one is firing back at the shooters. The shooters in recent massacres have had many minutes to complete their evil work, while their victims cower under desks or in closets. One response to the tragic reality that we are a gun-saturated country is to understand that law-abiding, well-trained, non-criminal, wholly sane citizens who are screened by the government have a role to play in their own self-defense, and in the defense of others (read The Atlantic article to see how one armed school administrator stopped a mass shooting in Pearl Mississippi). I don’t know anything more than anyone else about the shooting in Connecticut at the moment, but it seems fairly obvious that there was no one at or near the school who could have tried to fight back.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 3:39 PM GMT
    Who could have tried to fight back? Yeah, I'm sure the principal and guidance counselor were totally expecting to get shot up that morning...why didn't they think to be packing heat??

    That article, those comments...the mere fact you posted it, it's all so stupid.

    You want truth? Here is some truth. These things are going to happen. We cannot control them, or stop them. It's a matter of statistics. The more people you have, the more probability for certain outcomes and scenarios.

    There starts a tribe with 10 people. 1 of which likes to start fires. So they make him the town center fire-tender. Fast forward X-amount of generations and your tribe has 10,000 people with 1,000 that likes to start fires. Someone's hut is bound to go up in flames.

    It's sad. My heart goes out to the families of the lost ones, and to the kids who had to suffer this traumatic experience. I hope they are able to mentally recover from what they went through.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 4:00 PM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidWho could have tried to fight back? Yeah, I'm sure the principal and guidance counselor were totally expecting to get shot up that morning...why didn't they think to be packing heat??

    That article, those comments...the mere fact you posted it, it's all so stupid.

    You want truth? Here is some truth. These things are going to happen. We cannot control them, or stop them. It's a matter of statistics. The more people you have, the more probability for certain outcomes and scenarios.

    There starts a tribe with 10 people. 1 of which likes to start fires. So they make him the town center fire-tender. Fast forward X-amount of generations and your tribe has 10,000 people with 1,000 that likes to start fires. Someone's hut is bound to go up in flames.

    It's sad. My heart goes out to the families of the lost ones, and to the kids who had to suffer this traumatic experience. I hope they are able to mentally recover from what they went through.


    Yes because fighting back has never worked out?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

    The fact remains that there was no one near who was in a position to fight back and that crimes like this are apparently pre-planned. I don't think that arming everyone up to the hilt is a good idea - but it could be a choice - but even better would be to identify those who are prone to this kind of thing... if possible.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 4:13 PM GMT
    it seems that all efforts to avoid this failed, because someone knew him, and let him in. Whoever it was, they must be feeling enormous guilt. All schools are now gonna be locked down like prisons. Soon we will have to go through a cat scan and strip search just to go into a shopping mall. Was this murderer on any illegal drugs or prescribed psychotropic medications?
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 15, 2012 4:17 PM GMT
    Blakes7 saidit seems that all efforts to avoid this failed, because someone knew him, and let him in. Whoever it was, they must be feeling enormous guilt. All schools are now gonna be locked down like prisons. Soon we will have to go through a cat scan and strip search just to go into a shopping mall. Was this murderer on any illegal drugs or prescribed psychotropic medications?


    If he was, they got the dose wrong. He should've been locked up.icon_mad.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 4:18 PM GMT
    People like riddler and Blakes are not interested in saving lives. They are committed to an ideology that says people, even small children, are expendable in the face of attempts to put the gun manufacturers in their place.

    At this point, you're either for better gun control measures or you're for the murder of 20 children. There's no middle ground.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 7:11 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidAt this point, you're either for better gun control measures or you're for the murder of 20 children. There's no middle ground.


    So you claim that better gun control measures would have prevented this from happening? That this guy wouldn't be deranged or have found alternative ways to get weapons in the US?

    You're an idiot.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 8:18 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidPeople like riddler and Blakes are not interested in saving lives. They are committed to an ideology that says people, even small children, are expendable in the face of attempts to put the gun manufacturers in their place.

    At this point, you're either for better gun control measures or you're for the murder of 20 children. There's no middle ground.


    Oh my god, I seriously wish your ugly ass face would stop posting your fucking nonsense.

    Check out the Norway Massacre of 2011. Yes, I know, you havent heard about it because it didnt happen in the United States and Norway has the strictest gun control laws on the books, which defeats your point that a massacre has:
    1) something to do with gun control
    2) can be prevented with gun control.

    people like you make me sick, only you would try to leverage 20 dead children to push your political agenda.

    The gun control debate is a very real subject to be talked about, but it has nothing to do with this, and wouldnt have prevented this.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 8:35 PM GMT
    This same week, a Chinese guy stabbed 22 schoolchildren. None of them died.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/man-stabs-22-children-in-china.html?_r=0

    Guns are like cigarettes and alcohol (like other agents amenable to epidemiology): you limit the number of people who have access, and you decrease the number who actually suffer from them.
    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html
    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/public-health-approach/index.html

    In the future, the NRA will be renamed National Laser Gun Association, or National Instant-Vaporization-Device Association.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Dec 15, 2012 9:08 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidAt this point, you're either for better gun control measures or you're for the murder of 20 children. There's no middle ground.


    So you claim that better gun control measures would have prevented this from happening? That this guy wouldn't be deranged or have found alternative ways to get weapons in the US?

    You're an idiot.


    In a way, it did. He tried to buy guns 3 days before the massacre, but didn't want to undergo the background check because he was 20 and THE LAW required him to be 21. He then used his mother's guns. The key to this is access.

  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 15, 2012 9:41 PM GMT
    How did the 20 year old get access to the guns in his mother's house ?
    Were they locked in a metal cabinet ?
    Did the guns have trigger locks ?
    Was the ammo kept locked up, in a separate place ?

    The answer to the problem is in the answers to these questions.



  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 15, 2012 9:43 PM GMT
    Chainers said
    Christian73 saidPeople like riddler and Blakes are not interested in saving lives. They are committed to an ideology that says people, even small children, are expendable in the face of attempts to put the gun manufacturers in their place.

    At this point, you're either for better gun control measures or you're for the murder of 20 children. There's no middle ground.


    Oh my god, I seriously wish your ugly ass face would stop posting your fucking nonsense.

    Check out the Norway Massacre of 2011. Yes, I know, you havent heard about it because it didnt happen in the United States and Norway has the strictest gun control laws on the books, which defeats your point that a massacre has:
    1) something to do with gun control
    2) can be prevented with gun control.

    people like you make me sick, only you would try to leverage 20 dead children to push your political agenda.

    The gun control debate is a very real subject to be talked about, but it has nothing to do with this, and wouldnt have prevented this.



    You are 100% wrong.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 10:20 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]riddler78 said[/cite]


    a lot of stuff that really is just not his place to say. icon_mad.gif

    My heart goes out to all Americans in the wake of this tragedy. It is not for outsiders to intrude upon the intense soul searching that will follow this. I only offer my heartfelt condolences and respect the Americans' right to discuss this without comments from citizens of other countries.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 10:25 PM GMT
    Upper_Cdn said[quote][cite]riddler78 said[/cite]


    a lot of stuff that really is just not his place to say. icon_mad.gif

    My heart goes out to all Americans in the wake of this tragedy. It is not for outsiders to intrude upon the intense soul searching that will follow this. I only offer my heartfelt condolences and respect the Americans' right to discuss this without comments from citizens of other countries.


    Do not presume to speak for anyone but yourself. Let's not forget you were kicked off of here for a period because of your racist comments.

    This attack was horrifying and transcends borders. I think there's room in all issues to consider different points of view regardless of where they come from - and particularly when they are in such opposition to some facts or instances. Reject them if you want but I can see though why you'd prefer that some debates remain echo chambers.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 10:30 PM GMT
    Chainers saidpeople like you make me sick, only you would try to leverage 20 dead children to push your political agenda.

    And what political agenda are YOU pushing? One that puts unrestricted guns in your hands, because that makes you feel like a man?

    Maybe actually BEING a man would be the better solution for you. And safer for the rest of us. icon_razz.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 10:33 PM GMT
    kicked off? icon_lol.gif you mean my announced departure in my profile when I I briefly had too high a profile to remain comfortable here? Never happened, boy despuite your warped perceptions. . you still dishonour your family. so be silent like obedient child Youy are beneath contempt Shanghai Shirley.

    Know when to shut up. This is a death in someone else's family, fuckface.

    The appropriate response is to express condolences and nothing else.












  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 10:35 PM GMT
    Upper_Cdn saidkicked off? icon_lol.gif you mean my announced departure in my profile when I I briefly had too high a profile to remain comfortable here? Never happened, boy despuite your warped perceptions. . you still dishonour your family. so be silent like obedient child Youy are beneath contempt Shanghai Shirley.

    Know when to shut up. This is a death in somdeone else's family, fuckface


    You're only fooling yourself. Which in a way is apt. You're classy as always you bigot.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 15, 2012 10:43 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Upper_Cdn saidkicked off? icon_lol.gif you mean my announced departure in my profile when I I briefly had too high a profile to remain comfortable here? Never happened, boy despuite your warped perceptions. . you still dishonour your family. so be silent like obedient child Youy are beneath contempt Shanghai Shirley.

    Know when to shut up. This is a death in somdeone else's family, fuckface


    You're only fooling yourself. Which in a way is apt. You're classy as always you bigot.


    My contempt for the stupid is as strong as always -
    read your Miss Manners - consult "on grieving" A very valuable resource when trying to fit in




  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 16, 2012 12:43 AM GMT
    Chainers said
    Christian73 saidPeople like riddler and Blakes are not interested in saving lives. They are committed to an ideology that says people, even small children, are expendable in the face of attempts to put the gun manufacturers in their place.

    At this point, you're either for better gun control measures or you're for the murder of 20 children. There's no middle ground.


    Oh my god, I seriously wish your ugly ass face would stop posting your fucking nonsense.

    Check out the Norway Massacre of 2011. Yes, I know, you havent heard about it because it didnt happen in the United States and Norway has the strictest gun control laws on the books, which defeats your point that a massacre has:
    1) something to do with gun control
    2) can be prevented with gun control.

    people like you make me sick, only you would try to leverage 20 dead children to push your political agenda.

    The gun control debate is a very real subject to be talked about, but it has nothing to do with this, and wouldnt have prevented this.


    With that fucking grill, you shouldn't be calling anybody else "ugly."

    The political agenda has been pushed and its result is 20 dead children.

    In the 8 years since the assault weapons ban expired, we've had Virginia Tech, Aurora, Lancaster, and now Newtown. All involved assault weapons.

    As for Norway, that was an ISOLATED incident.

    We've had three mass shootings THIS WEEK.

    The vast majority of guns were LEGALLY obtained.

    You fucking ignorant asshole.

    As for riddler, he's just the usual cunt who thinks unions are too powerful when public school teachers need to wear bullet proof vests to teach the alphabet. So he can choke on his own bile and die.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Dec 16, 2012 1:06 AM GMT
    Why do people need assault weapons? Why does a middle-aged woman living in a supposedly super-safe small town need three automatic pistols and an assault rifle?
    The NRA and the gun industry have convinced Americans that guns make you safer, when the statistics show just the opposite. The gun industry has one goal: make money. They don't care how many people/children are murdered in the process.
    It's definitely time for this madness to end. Decent people need to stand up to the gun nuts for our own safety.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 16, 2012 1:22 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    Chainers said
    Christian73 saidPeople like riddler and Blakes are not interested in saving lives. They are committed to an ideology that says people, even small children, are expendable in the face of attempts to put the gun manufacturers in their place.

    At this point, you're either for better gun control measures or you're for the murder of 20 children. There's no middle ground.


    Oh my god, I seriously wish your ugly ass face would stop posting your fucking nonsense.

    Check out the Norway Massacre of 2011. Yes, I know, you havent heard about it because it didnt happen in the United States and Norway has the strictest gun control laws on the books, which defeats your point that a massacre has:
    1) something to do with gun control
    2) can be prevented with gun control.

    people like you make me sick, only you would try to leverage 20 dead children to push your political agenda.

    The gun control debate is a very real subject to be talked about, but it has nothing to do with this, and wouldnt have prevented this.


    With that fucking grill, you shouldn't be calling anybody else "ugly."

    The political agenda has been pushed and its result is 20 dead children.

    In the 8 years since the assault weapons ban expired, we've had Virginia Tech, Aurora, Lancaster, and now Newtown. All involved assault weapons.

    As for Norway, that was an ISOLATED incident.

    We've had three mass shootings THIS WEEK.

    The vast majority of guns were LEGALLY obtained.

    You fucking ignorant asshole.

    As for riddler, he's just the usual cunt who thinks unions are too powerful when public school teachers need to wear bullet proof vests to teach the alphabet. So he can choke on his own bile and die.


    Oh my god, to be as stupid and ugly as you. That has to be the worst thing I can possibly image. I do not know what you did to deserve being that fucked up.

    Yes, the gun used to kill the students was legally obtained...by the mother...a school teacher. Do you really think that gun control laws would have said "Well we would give you a gun, but your son might snap and go kill your students so we wont."

    Fucking moron. Please, enlighten me, what is your grand plan to make criminals and the lunatic follow logic, reason, and laws?
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2942

    Dec 16, 2012 1:26 AM GMT
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/opinion/sunday/kristof-do-we-have-the-courage-to-stop-this.html?ref=opinion