Don't you think it's time to reconsider your gun laws?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 15, 2012 5:35 PM GMT
    http://www.examiner.com/article/sandy-hook-school-shooting-update-20-reported-dead-many-injured?cid=rss

    Honestly, if an elementary school can just get shot up...
    High schools, elementary schools, malls, heck even cinemas, it's a wonder why everyone just doesn't become a hermit and live in a panic room.
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    Dec 15, 2012 5:47 PM GMT
    Absolutely !!
    Guns should only be sold to people that needs them for protection !! Real protection as a money carrier , business owners that deal with lots of cash money , farmers to protect their livehood against wild animals , body guards ....etc , would need them
    It is too bloody easy in the U.S to buy a gun !!icon_eek.gif
  • Kriss

    Posts: 690

    Dec 15, 2012 7:22 PM GMT
    No

    Here is why these people have mental problems. How is changing gun laws going to stop and change this problem? It's not, at all that is much like the laws on drug. Yes some are illegal and should not be used but does that mean no one is using drugs? No, does that mean people still cannot easily get drugs? No. Changing gun laws would not change much of anything.

    Frankly I think more effort should be put into mental and counciling centers. These people are ill if they can walk in a place of innocent kids and slaughter them without batting an eye lash. If we put more time and effort and research into such things we could take more pre-emptive strikes against something like that happening.

    Of course not every system is perfect but I think more time spent in the mental health sector instead of attempting to slam more gun laws down on people will be a bit more helpful.

    Weapons don't kill humans. Humans kill humans.

    What happened is tragic but trutfully we need to remember that a gun cannot decide for itself that it wants to go on a rampage. The human/person wielding the gun is the one that puts things into motion.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 15, 2012 7:36 PM GMT
    OBVIOUSLY
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 15, 2012 7:37 PM GMT
    Kriss saidJust my 2 cents.
    They were worthless.

    Have you ever researched anything about mass murderers, sociopaths, cannibals, etc.? Their neighbours always give the same story - "Gee, I never knew he was crazy, he seemed like such a nice guy."
    There is no rhyme or reason for these events. Many are people that seem perfectly average until they lash out.

    The gun culture in the U.S. is absolutely insane, and I mean really, like batshit crazy. What the fuck do you even need guns for anyways? If you say you need them to defend yourself, that's a fucking lie. This isn't the 18th century, when it was necessary to lock every door and window in your house so that robbers couldn't break in to murder your family and loot your drawers. The "right to bear arms" bullshit is irrelevant in today's society.

    The defense for why you should be allowed to own military-grade weapons is extremely weak. The people in the NRA are lunatics that collect guns to compensate for their terrible personalities and tiny penises.

    Any civilized country (Canada, countries in Europe, etc.) does not allow the general public to own guns except for hunting purposes, and even then you need a license to own one.
  • Import

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    Dec 15, 2012 7:40 PM GMT
    Yeah we can re-consider gun laws, but the larger (silent) issue is mental illness. . . I think as a society we seriously need to recognize the extent mental illness plays into each and everyone of our lives....

    This needs to be dealt with.
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    Dec 15, 2012 7:40 PM GMT
    waterloonicetop saidOutside of all that, I think america should allow ARMS or more specifically ONE arm. Design a really big awkward bulky PARTICULAR gun that you cant conceal, difficult to shoot a lot of people without reloading, open its manufacture to whoever wants patent free...and then collect all other guns. Takes care of a lot of problems.
    That's exactly the type of guns that existed when the 2nd Amendment was written. The 2nd Amendment was not written for fully-automatic weapons that can shoot down half a crowd of people in 10 seconds.
  • Import

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    Dec 15, 2012 7:42 PM GMT
    Not enough attention is paid to mental illnesses until its too late. We have to wake up and get these people the help they need BEFORE the next shooting occurs.
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    Dec 15, 2012 7:42 PM GMT
    Import saidYeah we can re-consider gun laws, but the larger (silent) issue is mental illness. . . I think as a society we seriously need to recognize the extent mental illness plays into each and everyone of our lives....

    This needs to be dealt with.
    I honestly think that everyone is taking this mental illness thing way too far.
    Yes, of course your country needs to take care of the mentally ill, but that doesn't mean you should keep gun laws the same. Just because somebody visits a psychiatrist or therapist doesn't mean they aren't gonna get their hands on a gun and go shoot up a school.
  • Import

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    Dec 15, 2012 7:44 PM GMT
    McQueen said
    Import saidYeah we can re-consider gun laws, but the larger (silent) issue is mental illness. . . I think as a society we seriously need to recognize the extent mental illness plays into each and everyone of our lives....

    This needs to be dealt with.
    I honestly think that everyone is taking this mental illness thing way too far.
    Yes, of course your country needs to take care of the mentally ill, but that doesn't mean you should keep gun laws the same. Just because somebody visits a psychiatrist or therapist doesn't mean they aren't gonna get their hands on a gun and go shoot up a school.


    I agree reform is needed with gun laws, but also why are so many ppl bent on killing ppl like this??

    The movie theatre in Colorado?
    The mall shooting in Oregon?
    That Sikh temple shooting in the mid-west?
    now this?


    what the fuck? All with in a year. Damn. Shit is real fucked up.
  • Kriss

    Posts: 690

    Dec 15, 2012 7:46 PM GMT
    waterloonicetop said
    Kriss saidNo

    . How is changing gun laws going to stop and change this problem? It's not,



    Actually you are just wrong. Having different laws like Canada, UK, France, Germany, Sweden, etc, etc reduces the problem to less than a 100 deaths a year, rather than over 10000 a year in the US. Even per capita it is reduced to almost nothing.


    I don't think you can quickly assume anyone for being wrong when I made a valid point. Every place has a different law yes, but once again Humans kill humans not guns. It takes a person to pull the trigger. It takes a person to pick up the knife and systematically stab and mutilate children. So adding laws and restricting guns is going to help how? To some extend I can see it making it harder to perhaps purchase weapons but then again the harder and more illegal you make something the more likely you will find people taking more interest in it.

    People will still come in contact and find ways to get something of that nature. No place on earth is perfect and no system is perfect in general but I think it's just a plain silly idea to waste effort in expanding on laws when the laws can and will be broken. I am not going into any sort of statistical information or anything such as that but in all those countries with gun laws shooting still happen. Death still happens in some form of a person killing another person.

    All shootings and deaths are tragic events that occur but each time they happen a plethora of people run up and start yelling about changing laws over and over again. It happens nearly everytime there is some sort of school incident.

    Then the people that say ok why do we not focus instead on not the laws and weapons that are merely tool in such things but on the actual person that is killing these people.

    How can I prevent it? What could I have done or looked for as a warning sign? Was there help available to this person and would it be something they could feel that they could actively pursue without being judged? Limiting something to merely the tool does not solve the problem, and I think that is why there continues and will continue to be killing. Because people limit themselves to the idea that Johnny was killed by a gun that Hank used. No Hank Killed Johnny with a tool, that tool happened to be a gun, but it does not change the fact that Hank is the killer and the one that used the tool aforementioned to commit the act.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 15, 2012 7:48 PM GMT
    Import saidI agree reform is needed with gun laws, but also why are so many ppl bent on killing ppl like this??

    The movie theatre in Colorado?
    The mall shooting in Oregon?
    That Sikh temple shooting in the mid-west?
    now this?

    what the fuck? All with in a year. Damn. Shit is real fucked up.
    Mall shooting in Toronto, too, and the guy in China that knifed a bunch of kids and a couple of teachers.

    Each case has it's own reasons, and most of them could have been prevented.
    I mean, guess how the guy in Toronto got access to a handgun. Pro tip: it wasn't on our side of the border.
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    Dec 15, 2012 7:55 PM GMT
    Kriss saidI don't think you can quickly assume anyone for being wrong when I made a valid point. Every place has a different law yes, but once again Humans kill humans not guns.
    [cut for length]
    No Hank Killed Johnny with a tool, that tool happened to be a gun, but it does not change the fact that Hank is the killer and the one that used the tool aforementioned to commit the act.
    but you ARE wrong. Did you not read the facts? The average amount of people killed by guns in the U.S. each year is around 10,000. The average amount of people killed by guns in Canada each year is 200.

    Do you not realize how much easier it is to shoot a gun and feel no remorse for the killing than it is to actually stab someone, up close and personal, or choke/strangle them? If I'd had access to a gun when I was a teenager I'm about 90% sure some shit would have gone down at my highschool.

    I honestly believe that if you do not have a mental illness and you have not studied mental illnesses for years in University, you have no idea what goes on in people's heads, and you do not realize how easy it is to prevent these things from happening by doing something as simple as removing guns from public access.
  • Import

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    Dec 15, 2012 8:01 PM GMT
    It's so crazy to think as a kid i grew up around guns. My dad had and still has guns....it's a hobby of his, which I think he got from his dad who had guns...and all my dad's 4 brothers have guns...

    when i was 8th grade this kid brought a gun to school in his backpack, yet i didnt even think anything of it. I thought "whoa, cool".....like an idiot. It didn't cross my mind that he could have potentially shot and killed me or the rest of the class. I just thought it was neat and kind of something "off limits" that he had access to.... like sneaking into an r-rated move when you're 13....

    Now, as an adult I realize how effin crazy it was...to be around all these guns. and i hope steps are taken to restrict access to them, but at this stage in the gun game....America's streets and population are so filled with guns, thats it would take generations to finally get them down to the levels of Canada and the UK.... the proliferation of guns in society is huge and not something that can be changed in a years time...5 years time...10 years time.
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    Dec 15, 2012 8:02 PM GMT
    ^ That may be, but nothing's going to change if you don't start sometime.
  • Kriss

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    Dec 15, 2012 8:13 PM GMT
    McQueen said
    Kriss saidI don't think you can quickly assume anyone for being wrong when I made a valid point. Every place has a different law yes, but once again Humans kill humans not guns.
    [cut for length]
    No Hank Killed Johnny with a tool, that tool happened to be a gun, but it does not change the fact that Hank is the killer and the one that used the tool aforementioned to commit the act.
    but you ARE wrong. Did you not read the facts? The average amount of people killed by guns in the U.S. each year is around 10,000. The average amount of people killed by guns in Canada each year is 200.

    Do you not realize how much easier it is to shoot a gun and feel no remorse for the killing than it is to actually stab someone, up close and personal, or choke/strangle them? If I'd had access to a gun when I was a teenager I'm about 90% sure some shit would have gone down at my highschool.

    I honestly believe that if you do not have a mental illness and you have not studied mental illnesses for years in University, you have no idea what goes on in people's heads, and you do not realize how easy it is to prevent these things from happening by doing something as simple as removing guns from public access.


    On a personal note no, I dont know the feeling of being unable to feel no remore for killing someone at a distance via point of a gun or up close and personal with hands or any other tool. I don't know exactly what you mean when you say having a mental illness of any sorts but if depression and attempted suicide account for something then yes, to some degree I have had and still have some forms of mental illness.

    It's just from my own understanding that you can't change the fact people will continue to kill other people. Regardless if you impose a million laws or not people will still die. I think combating a piece of the problem on a mental level would be more efficent. I did not mean to be so crude in the first post and simply throw out the idea of gun laws being sanctified in order to protect people. I just believe in coming at it from a different angle than. All that being said we cannot always understand what another person is thinking, we cannot know the complete details of another person's life unless we lived with them side by side for every moment or they chose to share that with us.

    We can pick up on signals and other small signs, and no I personally don't have years of experience in University studying this kind of issue. I only have personal research and my own idea to go off. That being said perhaps instead of saying no I should have said something along the line of Yes; to some degree it is time to reconsider gun laws but to also look more into research with combating the problem on a mental level.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 15, 2012 8:15 PM GMT
    ^ You must not think in such extremes. The answer is neither one or the other, it's BOTH.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 15, 2012 8:19 PM GMT
    Import saidYeah we can re-consider gun laws, but the larger (silent) issue is mental illness. . . I think as a society we seriously need to recognize the extent mental illness plays into each and everyone of our lives....

    This needs to be dealt with.


    I keep hearing this, especially from those who are opposed to any gun control (not inferring Import is). The problem, in my opinion, with this statement in reference to the current events is that it has nothing to do with gun control. Sure you can argue there needs to be changes in the mental health issues, this will always be a difficult discussion between safety and personal rights and responsibilities. It takes time to come up with a solution that works for society as a whole, however with removing automatic guns from our society, it's a no brainer. Make it illegal to manufacture, sell, own or posses these items. I don't care how many guns you grew up with or how likely you think that you're going to have to join a militia to defend against your government or neighbor or how much you believe we should all be walking around with bazookas to even the playing field, having automatic weapons in our society is barbaric and unnecessary.

    Anyone who wants to blame all the mass murder shootings on mental health should go sit with the loved ones of those shot and explain that to them. Of course these folks are mentally ill, why else would you do this? Get rid of the guns and then deal with issues related to addressing the mental health crisis, including safety and individual rights.
  • Kriss

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    Dec 15, 2012 8:19 PM GMT
    @McQueen

    I can see an understanding of both being the solution, perhaps I got a bit heated because of the idea that no one saw it coming and that both incidents involved children.
  • Wyatt

    Posts: 239

    Dec 15, 2012 9:33 PM GMT
    IF PEOPLE CAN'T GET GUNS AS EASILY IT MEANS THAT PEOPLE CAN'T ACT ON RANDOM FEELINGS AS EASILY AND WILL THEREFORE DECREASE THE RATE OF VIOLENT CRIME VIA FIREARMS.


    DUH!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 15, 2012 9:34 PM GMT
    Someone created a sock account to make this thread? icon_neutral.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 15, 2012 9:43 PM GMT
    We should change the laws to make it less easy to just walk up and buy a gun. Where I live I can buy a permit and a handgun that day. I know plenty of people here who have guns and yes gun crime is crazy in my state. I believe we are like number four in the nation.

    There needs to be gun education in schools. Kids should learn to respect the privilege of being armed and what responsibility gun ownership brings on. I don't think getting rid of guns is the answer. It wont work and it would be too expensive to try and round them all up. And even if you did people would import then from Mexico and Latin America countries much in the way they do now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 15, 2012 10:26 PM GMT
    Let's set the record straight here after reading some incorrect information above.

    Handguns are restricted in Canada but legally attainable if you jump through enough hoops etc. . Long guns aka rifles and shotguns are NOT restricted excepting for automatic rifles which are illegal, Any Canadian citizen can buy a rifle or shotgun, you don't have to be a "hunter" In order to purchase a rifle/shotgun since the early 70's you need to get an FAC permit (firearms acquisition certificate) from the local police dept to present to the store. So long as you don't have a criminal record all it entails is a quick background check and you're set to go. The much maligned Long Gun Registry has been eliminated recently . On a per capita basis rifle and shotgun ownership in Canada is pretty close to that of the US if not higher.
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    Dec 15, 2012 11:06 PM GMT
    I know people have said "it's not the guns, it's the people" in regards to mental health, but honestly after so many shootings it's obvious that since there hasn't been a change in the "people" (and I used that term loosely) you should then consider the gun laws.

    Think about it, if someone robs a bank, the getaway person is still an accomplice and is guilty. So in a way, the fact that you guys still legally allow the above mentioned "people" access to guns makes the gun law an accomplice to such gun shootings simply out of the fact that it enabled them to do so by being available to them.

    Not that I'm saying that mental problems aren't important however in the light of how many shootings, the safer and more, for lack of a better word, ergonomical action is to reconsider the gun laws at least until the mental health issue is being addressed well enough.
    Addressing the mental health issues seems like a long and complicated path (not that I'm saying it's not important, it is) that it seems dangerous to simply wait on that without making some change to gun laws considering how many shootings have happened.

    I mean come on, if kids aren't safe in elementary schools, does "oh don't worry we'll address the mental health issues" seem reassuring to the familes or sound like it takes any immediate steps to making sure it doesn't happen again in the future? How many more shootings could happen by the time mental health issues are adequately dealt with?

    Thanks for the replies and discussion. I'm not trying to say I'm right, who knows I could be wrong, I just thought this was something that needed to be discussed in light of all of the events so far.

    Also, just a side note as I saw on one of the replies, I'm not a sock account, this account is actually verified I just like it hidden. Another side note is that I'm not from the U.S so this was made partly to see what Americans thought of gun laws and the shootings.

    --EDIT--
    Also, wasn't the guy from the university/college who did the cinema shooting not even considered mentally ill? If he wasn't diagnosed with a mental illness, wouldn't you say that in this circumstance the fact that he was legally allowed in some way to get all those guns and apparently over 6000 bullets is at least in some way a form of accomplice or enabler to the shooting?
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    Dec 16, 2012 11:58 PM GMT
    The U.S has one of the highest gun violence rates in the developed world. civillians should not have access to a device that's strictly intended to inflict damage to other humans. The U.S needs to learn from Japan where rarely anyone dies from gun violence due to very strict gun laws. We can't get rid of crazy but you can make it a lot harder for crazy to kill 20 kinder gardens.