A Massacre at an Elementary School, so Let's Debate Politics? What the fuck?

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    Dec 15, 2012 7:16 PM GMT
    I can't take credit for this, I stole this off someone's Facebook status because I felt it should be shared:

    27 people are dead in Connecticut and so we turn it into a political debate? For every single one of you who posted something on the 2nd Amendment (pro or anti, doesn't matter) what the hell is wrong with you? It's a national tragedy, not a cue for partisan debate. If anything we should unite across party lines as Americans, together facing a national tragedy. Save the constitutional debate for another time. This isn't about guns, regulations or rights, it's about 27 families who are going to sit around the Christmas Tree in 2 weeks time with a bunch of unopened presents because there little boy or girl isn't there to open them. That's what this is about. So if you posted something today about 2nd Amendment Rights or Gun Control, stop for a second an ask yourself "what the fuck is wrong with me? How dare I politicise this tragedy. I must be a sick fuck."
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    Dec 15, 2012 7:41 PM GMT
    Completely agree. The discussion of gun control is entirely different from this tragedy. I just wish the rest of the country would see that.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 15, 2012 7:46 PM GMT
    Last night, I watched the news and BALLED MY EYES OUT. Even Scott Pelly looked like he couldn't hold back the flood gates. I finally had to turn off the TV...

    I think most people can mourn the tragedy but also find time to think of ways to prevent future horrors. Problems need to be dealt with, not ignored. Sounds like you guys are in denial, to me.
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    Dec 15, 2012 7:52 PM GMT
    Chainers saidCompletely agree. The discussion of gun control is entirely different from this tragedy. I just wish the rest of the country would see that.

    Yet I saw another post that noted that after every one of these gun-related massacres, the NRA-types say the same thing: "This is not the time for a debate over gun control."

    Well, then when IS the time? Never, apparently. Nothing is said, nothing ever done, nothing ever changes. And then more of these tragedies occur, with increasing frequency.

    The time for discussion is precisely when these things happen. The NRA and Republicans would like to defer a review & examination, until we forget and it happens all over again. Their denial & sandbagging is also a political statement.

    How many little children must die, before it's time for a national debate & action?
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    Dec 15, 2012 8:14 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    Chainers saidCompletely agree. The discussion of gun control is entirely different from this tragedy. I just wish the rest of the country would see that.

    Yet I saw another post that noted that after every one of these gun-related massacres, the NRA-types say the same thing: "This is not the time for a debate over gun control."

    Well, then when IS the time? Never, apparently. Nothing is said, nothing ever done, nothing ever changes. And then more of these tragedies occur, with increasing frequency.

    The time for discussion is precisely when these things happen. The NRA and Republicans would like to defer a review & examination, until we forget and it happens all over again. Their denial & sandbagging is also a political statement.

    How many little children must die, before it's time for a national debate & action?


    And this is the problem. You asswipes seem to think that gun control would have prevented this, and that gun control is the answer, and if we have gun control everyone would hold hands and love each other. You forget that these people who do things like this are mentally deranged lunatics. They do not follow laws, reason or logic. Period.

    In Norway, 2011, an individual bombed a government building. While the town was worried and in a lock down, he drove to an island off of Norway dressed as a police officer. This island was hosting a summer camp event, and he used his disguise to get in. He then proceeded to hunt down these children like animals while they couldnt call for help and the town was distracted. I think something along 77 people died.

    Guess what, Norway also has the STRICTEST gun control laws on the books IN THE WORLD.

    So now, tell me, how does gun control relate to a lunatic going on a massacre?

    And please, tell me this crazy theory you have about how criminals follow laws?

    Yea thats right, dumbass.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Dec 15, 2012 8:58 PM GMT
    And how many massacres does Norway have compared to the United States? You may not be able to eliminate it entirely, but it certainly can reduce it.

    After the VT shootings in 2007, the NRA agreed that more needs to be done to prevent mental health risk types from getting guns. Since that time, they've lobbied more for easier gun access across the board and nothing concerning mental health risks.
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    Dec 15, 2012 9:11 PM GMT
    If we're arguing hypotheticals and not worrying about Constitutionality, would say that violent video games, movies, etc. are more of a problem. I can't imagine that some kids get inured to violence that way.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14305

    Dec 15, 2012 9:11 PM GMT
    A bloodthirsty lunatic decides to take innocent lives in all places, an elementary school. What the goddamned hell is the matter with our society. What did those innocent children and the teachers in that elementary school do to incur this vicious asshole's wrath. This is not only horrible, but beyond any comprehension. Tighter gun control is definitely needed in the US. Both the NRA and the right wing neocons should be told to go fuck themselves. As for owning a concealed weapon, the minimum age should be at least 25 years not 19 and not 21. Owning a concealed weapon or any weapon for that matter is a very serious responsibility that requires some additional life experience or to put it simply "being a little wiser."
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    Dec 15, 2012 9:21 PM GMT
    Chainers saidSo now, tell me, how does gun control relate to a lunatic going on a massacre?

    If a lunatic can't get his hands on a gun, the injuries he inflicts on others are gonna be a lot less. Can your pea brain comprehend that?

    And is your pea-sized penis made bigger by holding a gun in your hand? Apparently it is, in your own mind. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 15, 2012 10:16 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidA bloodthirsty lunatic decides to take innocent lives in all places, an elementary school. What the goddamned hell is the matter with our society. What did those innocent children and the teachers in that elementary school do to incur this vicious asshole's wrath. This is not only horrible, but beyond any comprehension. Tighter gun control is definitely needed in the US. Both the NRA and the right wing neocons should be told to go fuck themselves. As for owning a concealed weapon, the minimum age should be at least 25 years not 19 and not 21. Owning a concealed weapon or any weapon for that matter is a very serious responsibility that requires some additional life experience or to put it simply "being a little wiser."


    Sometimes the good guys are under 25:
    http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

    I'd agree with the OP - it's too bad people can't even wait to get the facts before the knee jerk reactions towards politics.
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    Dec 15, 2012 11:19 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidAnd how many massacres does Norway have compared to the United States? You may not be able to eliminate it entirely, but it certainly can reduce it.

    After the VT shootings in 2007, the NRA agreed that more needs to be done to prevent mental health risk types from getting guns. Since that time, they've lobbied more for easier gun access across the board and nothing concerning mental health risks.


    This person stole a gun from his mother, he was not issued a gun.

    Norway has much less massacres because it has much less people. More people = more crazy people. This is a huge country, we are bound to have a lot of mentally deranged compared to another one.
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    Dec 15, 2012 11:20 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    Chainers saidSo now, tell me, how does gun control relate to a lunatic going on a massacre?

    If a lunatic can't get his hands on a gun, the injuries he inflicts on others are gonna be a lot less. Can your pea brain comprehend that?

    And is your pea-sized penis made bigger by holding a gun in your hand? Apparently it is, in your own mind. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Fucking idiot.

    Drugs are illegal, has that ever stopped me from buying pot?

    Just cause it is illegal doesnt mean that people cant buy it, there is this thing called the black market gramps. Check it out before you die.
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    Dec 15, 2012 11:20 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    roadbikeRob saidA bloodthirsty lunatic decides to take innocent lives in all places, an elementary school. What the goddamned hell is the matter with our society. What did those innocent children and the teachers in that elementary school do to incur this vicious asshole's wrath. This is not only horrible, but beyond any comprehension. Tighter gun control is definitely needed in the US. Both the NRA and the right wing neocons should be told to go fuck themselves. As for owning a concealed weapon, the minimum age should be at least 25 years not 19 and not 21. Owning a concealed weapon or any weapon for that matter is a very serious responsibility that requires some additional life experience or to put it simply "being a little wiser."


    Sometimes the good guys are under 25:
    http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

    I'd agree with the OP - it's too bad people can't even wait to get the facts before the knee jerk reactions towards politics.


    http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.

    Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.
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    Dec 15, 2012 11:34 PM GMT
    Chainers said
    ART_DECO said
    Chainers saidSo now, tell me, how does gun control relate to a lunatic going on a massacre?

    If a lunatic can't get his hands on a gun, the injuries he inflicts on others are gonna be a lot less. Can your pea brain comprehend that?

    And is your pea-sized penis made bigger by holding a gun in your hand? Apparently it is, in your own mind. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Fucking idiot.

    Drugs are illegal, has that ever stopped me from buying pot?

    Just cause it is illegal doesnt mean that people cant buy it, there is this thing called the black market gramps. Check it out before you die.

    What an amazingly ugly person you are, eager to see me die. But consistent with your other hatred here.

    Well, those that live by the sword (and gun) shall die by the sword. I may be the older, but I think my prospects to outlive you are better.

    Your hate of others, and love of violence will be your undoing. I wonder if one day we'll see your name splattered all over national headlines, just like this kid in Connecticut. I think you are in desperate need of anger management therapy ASAP. Any maybe cut back on the pot.
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    Dec 15, 2012 11:47 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    riddler78 said
    roadbikeRob saidA bloodthirsty lunatic decides to take innocent lives in all places, an elementary school. What the goddamned hell is the matter with our society. What did those innocent children and the teachers in that elementary school do to incur this vicious asshole's wrath. This is not only horrible, but beyond any comprehension. Tighter gun control is definitely needed in the US. Both the NRA and the right wing neocons should be told to go fuck themselves. As for owning a concealed weapon, the minimum age should be at least 25 years not 19 and not 21. Owning a concealed weapon or any weapon for that matter is a very serious responsibility that requires some additional life experience or to put it simply "being a little wiser."


    Sometimes the good guys are under 25:
    http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

    I'd agree with the OP - it's too bad people can't even wait to get the facts before the knee jerk reactions towards politics.


    http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.

    Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.


    You apparently missed his follow on sentence - here it is as I'm sure it was an oversight:

    "I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."
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    Dec 15, 2012 11:49 PM GMT
    http://www.newsmax.com/m/Article/S21

    "No Rise in Mass Killings, but Their Impact Is Huge
    Saturday, 15,December 2012 03:52:07

    A gold plaque hangs next to a bullet hole in the Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wis., where a lone gunman killed six worshippers and injured three others last August. It is engraved with the words, "We Are One."

    "It frames the wound," says Pardeep Kaleka, son of former temple president Satwant Singh Kaleka, who died in the massacre. "The wound of our community, the wound of our family, the wound of our society."

    In the past week, that wound has been ripped open with shocking ferocity.

    In what has become sickeningly familiar, gunmen opened fire on innocents in what should be the safest of places — first, at a shopping mall in Oregon, and then, unthinkably, at an elementary school in Connecticut.

    Once again there were scenes of chaos as rescuers and media descended on the scene. Once again there were pictures of weeping survivors clutching one another, of candlelight vigils and teddy bears left as loving memorials. And once again a chorus of pundits debated gun control and violence as society attempted to make sense of the senseless.

    "Are there any sanctuaries left?" Kaleka asked. "Is this a fact of life, one we have become content to live with? Can we no longer feel safe going Christmas shopping in a mall, or to temple, or to the movies? What kind of society have we become?"

    As this year of the gun lurches to a close, leaving a bloody wake, we are left to wonder along with Kaleka: What is the meaning of all this?

    Even before Portland and Newtown, we saw a former student kill seven people at Oikos University in Oakland, Calif. We saw gunmen in Seattle and Minneapolis each kill five people and then themselves. We saw the midnight premiere of "The Dark Knight Rises" at a theater in Aurora, Colo., devolve into a bloodbath, as 12 people died and 58 were wounded; 24-year-old James Holmes was arrested outside.

    And yet those who study mass shootings say they are not becoming more common.

    "There is no pattern, there is no increase," says criminologist James Allen Fox of Boston's Northeastern University, who has been studying the subject since the 1980s, spurred by a rash of mass shootings in post offices.

    The random mass shootings that get the most media attention are the rarest, Fox says. Most people who die of bullet wounds knew the identity of their killer.

    Society moves on, he says, because of our ability to distance ourselves from the horror of the day, and because people believe that these tragedies are "one of the unfortunate prices we pay for our freedoms."

    Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections who has written a history of mass murders in America, said that while mass shootings rose between the 1960s and the 1990s, they actually dropped in the 2000s. And mass killings actually reached their peak in 1929, according to his data. He estimates that there were 32 in the 1980s, 42 in the 1990s and 26 in the first decade of the century.

    Chances of being killed in a mass shooting, he says, are probably no greater than being struck by lightning.

    Still, he understands the public perception - and extensive media coverage - when mass shootings occur in places like malls and schools. "There is this feeling that could have been me. It makes it so much more frightening."

    On one spring day more than four years ago, it WAS Colin Goddard.

    For two years after a gunman pumped four bullets into him in a classroom at Virginia Tech, Goddard said he couldn't bear to listen to television reports about other shootings, or read about them. It brought him back instantly to that day - April 16, 2007 - when he lay on the floor of classroom 211, blood dripping from his shoulder and leg as he wondered if he would survive.

    And then, on April 3, 2009, he turned on the computer and heard the news. A 41-year-old man had opened fire at an immigrant community center in Binghamton, N.Y., killing 11 immigrants and two workers. The shooter, a Vietnamese immigrant and a former student at the center, killed himself as police rushed to the scene.

    Goddard watched, riveted, realizing that this is what it was like for the rest of the world when a mass shooting occurs. Inside the school, or the mall, or the theater, the victims lie wounded and terrified and dying, while the rest of the world watches from afar. People glue themselves to the television for a day. They soak in the horror from the safety of their office or home. They feel awful for a while. Then they move on with their lives. They grow numb.

    Duwe says the cycle has gone on for generations.

    "Mass shootings provoke instant debates about violence and guns and mental health and that's been the case since Charles Whitman climbed the tower at the University of Texas in 1966," he said, referring to the engineering student and former Marine who killed 13 people and an unborn child and wounded 32 others in a shooting rampage on campus. "It becomes mind-numbingly repetitive."

    "Rampage violence seems to lead to repeated cycles of anguish, investigation, recrimination, and heated debate, with little real progress in prevention," wrote John Harris, clinical assistant professor of medicine in the College of Medicine at the University of Arizona, in the June issue of American Journal of Public Health. "These types of events can lead to despair about their inevitability and unpredictability."

    And there is despair and frustration, even among those who have set out to stop mass killings.

    "We do just seem to slog along, from one tragedy to the next," Tom Mauser said last July, after the Aurora shootings.

    Mauser knows all about the slog. He became an outspoken activist against such violence after his 15-year-old son, Daniel, was slain along with 12 other at Columbine High School in 1999. But he has grown frustrated and weary.

    "There was a time when I felt a certain guilt," said Mauser. "I'd ask, `Why can't I do more about this? Why haven't I dedicated myself more to it?' But I'll be damned if I'm going to put it all on my shoulders.

    "This," he said, "is all of our problem."

    Carolyn McCarthy enlisted in the cause in 1993, when a deranged gunman killed her husband and seriously injured her son in shooting rampage. She has served in Congress since 1997.

    Known as the "gun lady" on Capitol Hill for her fierce championship of gun control laws, McCarthy says she nearly gave up her "lonely crusade" after hearing about the Virginia Tech shooting. And when she heard about the January 2011 shooting of former U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords she says, "I just sat there frozen and watching the television and couldn't stop crying."

    "It's like a cancer in our society," she says. "And if we keep doing nothing to stop it, it's only going to spread."

    After the Binghamton shootings, Colin Goddard resolved that he had to get involved, to somehow try to stop the cycle. Reminders are lodged inside him: three bullets, a legacy of Virginia Tech.

    He now works in Washington for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

    "I refuse to believe this is something we have to accept as normal in this country," he said. "There has to be a way to change the culture of violence in our society."
    "


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 16, 2012 12:24 AM GMT
    To the OP - The deaths of 27 people (including 20 children) in the 6th mass shooting in the US this year is inherently political. Anyone saying it's not is either naive or doesn't want a discussion of

    Was 9/11 not the time to discuss airline safety?

    Was the day after Katrina or Sandy not the time to discuss climate change, our ailing infrastructure and the epic inequality they revealed?


    To those claiming that the ease with which anyone can get guns is not the issue, fuck you.

    At this point, you're either for sensible gun control and safety, or your for the murder of children.

    The second amendment does not give gun enthusiasts and manufacturers the right to create a country where 20 kids can be shot to death by a disturbed 20-year-old
  • comfortablynu...

    Posts: 230

    Dec 16, 2012 12:33 AM GMT
    Isn't the time to talk about gun control after an elementary school massacre. Wasn't the time to talk about gun control after a shooting in a Sikh temple. Wasn't the time to talk about gun control after a massacre in a movie theater. Wasn't the time to talk about gun control after a congresswoman got shot in the face as well as many innocent bystanders. When the hell is the time?

    When I saw Jay Carney get on TV yesterday and say "Today isn't the time to talk about gun control," I shouted at my TV "Yeah you fuck, yesterday was."

    There's a longer waiting period for talking about gun control after a mass shooting than there is to buy a damn gun in this country. Fucked up...
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    Dec 16, 2012 12:34 AM GMT
    comfortablynumb saidIsn't the time to talk about gun control after an elementary school massacre. Wasn't the time to talk about gun control after a shooting in a Sikh temple. Wasn't the time to talk about gun control after a massacre in a movie theater. Wasn't the time to talk about gun control after a congresswoman got shot in the face as well as many innocent bystanders. When the hell is the time?

    When I saw Jay Carney get on TV yesterday and say "Today isn't the time to talk about gun control," I shouted at my TV "Yeah you fuck, yesterday was."

    There's a longer waiting period for talking about gun control after a mass shooting than there is to buy a damn gun in this country. Fucked up...


    Amen, brother.
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    Dec 16, 2012 12:56 AM GMT
    Annually, the UK has 0.22 firearms-related deaths per 100,000 population, while the figure for the US is 9 deaths per 100,000 population. The UK has some of the strictest firearms laws in the world, while, it is safe to say, the US does not.

    Compared with the US, the UK has a slightly higher total crime rate per capita of approximately 85 per 1000 people, while in the US it is approximately 80, so it would not appear that widespread gun ownership has any significant value in reducing crime generally.

    As they say, go figure.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1980

    Dec 16, 2012 1:13 AM GMT
    comfortablynumb saidIsn't the time to talk about gun control after an elementary school massacre. Wasn't the time to talk about gun control after a shooting in a Sikh temple. Wasn't the time to talk about gun control after a massacre in a movie theater. Wasn't the time to talk about gun control after a congresswoman got shot in the face as well as many innocent bystanders. When the hell is the time?

    When I saw Jay Carney get on TV yesterday and say "Today isn't the time to talk about gun control," I shouted at my TV "Yeah you fuck, yesterday was."

    There's a longer waiting period for talking about gun control after a mass shooting than there is to buy a damn gun in this country. Fucked up...


    +1
    Exactly right. And because we took no action yesterday, 20 kids are dead.
    The time to begin taking action is today, so maybe we can prevent the next gun massacre.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Dec 16, 2012 1:14 AM GMT
    I know at least three people who own guns who I am not comfortable knowing that they do. It scares me. Guns scare me. I have never shot, or even held, a gun...and I never want to.
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    Dec 16, 2012 1:18 AM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    Chainers said
    ART_DECO said
    Chainers saidSo now, tell me, how does gun control relate to a lunatic going on a massacre?

    If a lunatic can't get his hands on a gun, the injuries he inflicts on others are gonna be a lot less. Can your pea brain comprehend that?

    And is your pea-sized penis made bigger by holding a gun in your hand? Apparently it is, in your own mind. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Fucking idiot.

    Drugs are illegal, has that ever stopped me from buying pot?

    Just cause it is illegal doesnt mean that people cant buy it, there is this thing called the black market gramps. Check it out before you die.

    What an amazingly ugly person you are, eager to see me die. But consistent with your other hatred here.

    Well, those that live by the sword (and gun) shall die by the sword. I may be the older, but I think my prospects to outlive you are better.

    Your hate of others, and love of violence will be your undoing. I wonder if one day we'll see your name splattered all over national headlines, just like this kid in Connecticut. I think you are in desperate need of anger management therapy ASAP. Any maybe cut back on the pot.


    Never said that I was eager to see you die, but maybe that was just a fruedian slip of yours. Seriously, though, do you actually think that gun control would prevent this? Im sorry but you are delusional...just a delusional disgusting old man who trolls this site because no one ever wants to talk to him, on or off these forums.

    Seriously, I pity you.
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    Dec 16, 2012 2:04 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    q1w2e3 said
    riddler78 said
    roadbikeRob saidA bloodthirsty lunatic decides to take innocent lives in all places, an elementary school. What the goddamned hell is the matter with our society. What did those innocent children and the teachers in that elementary school do to incur this vicious asshole's wrath. This is not only horrible, but beyond any comprehension. Tighter gun control is definitely needed in the US. Both the NRA and the right wing neocons should be told to go fuck themselves. As for owning a concealed weapon, the minimum age should be at least 25 years not 19 and not 21. Owning a concealed weapon or any weapon for that matter is a very serious responsibility that requires some additional life experience or to put it simply "being a little wiser."


    Sometimes the good guys are under 25:
    http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

    I'd agree with the OP - it's too bad people can't even wait to get the facts before the knee jerk reactions towards politics.


    http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.

    Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.


    You apparently missed his follow on sentence - here it is as I'm sure it was an oversight:

    "I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."


    Yes I did read that sentence. I commend his concern that he will most likely hit innocent bystanders. I do not commend his certainty that his appearance with a gun was what made the gunman shoot himself. And cannot convince myself that all people with guns, even if sane, has his degree of doubt about harming innocents.

    Anyway, this case is a rarity. The mass majority of civilians with arms did NOT stop massacres. I can quote more from the following article, but here's what relevant:

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigationThere was one case in our data set in which an armed civilian played a role. Back in 1982, a man opened fire at a welding shop in Miami, killing eight and wounding three others before fleeing on a bicycle. A civilian who worked nearby pursued the assailant in a car, shooting and killing him a few blocks away (in addition to ramming him with the car). Florida authorities, led by then-state attorney Janet Reno, concluded that the vigilante had used force justifiably, and speculated that he may have prevented additional killings. But even if we were to count that case as a successful armed intervention by a civilian, it would account for just 1.7 percent of the mass shootings in the last 30 years.

    More broadly, attempts by armed civilians to stop shooting rampages are rare—and successful ones even rarer. There were two school shootings in the late 1990s, in Mississippi and Pennsylvania, in which bystanders with guns ultimately subdued the teen perpetrators, but in both cases it was after the shooting had subsided. Other cases led to tragic results. In 2005, as a rampage unfolded inside a shopping mall in Tacoma, Washington, a civilian named Brendan McKown confronted the assailant with a licensed handgun he was carrying. The assailant pumped several bullets into McKown and wounded six people before eventually surrendering to police after a hostage standoff. (A comatose McKown eventually recovered after weeks in the hospital.) In Tyler, Texas, that same year, a civilian named Mark Wilson fired his licensed handgun at a man on a rampage at the county courthouse. Wilson—who was a firearms instructor—was shot dead by the body-armored assailant, who wielded an AK-47. (None of these cases were included in our mass shootings data set because fewer than four victims died in each.)


    BTW, what are Canadian laws on guns? Do you own a gun and are you willing to use it if you had it to stop a massacre in progress?
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    Dec 16, 2012 2:26 AM GMT
    I know I'm in the unpopular opinion here but guys like this isn't going to sit at home because he can't get a gun. He might be resorted to do something worse. Like build a bomb and blow everyone up at that school. I know everyone is referencing that Chinese man who went on a rampage with a knife without any casualties but recall that this kid was pretty smart and in the United States, I'd say he'd have a bit more access to resources (albeit raw and makeship) unlike a censored China.

    Just sayin. That said, I believe the 2nd Amendment is outdated. There isn't any reason for anyone in this town, save for law enforcement and hunting enthusiasts, to posses a gun.