Anglican vicars say they will defy equal marriage ban on Church of England

  • metta

    Posts: 39118

    Dec 16, 2012 4:10 PM GMT
    Anglican vicars say they will defy equal marriage ban on Church of England

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/12/16/anglican-vicars-say-they-will-defy-equal-marriage-ban-on-church-of-england/
  • metta

    Posts: 39118

    Dec 16, 2012 4:21 PM GMT
    Conservatives defect to UKIP over gay marriage law

    Polls show some anti-gay marriage Conservatives intend to vote UKIP at next election, but 60% of Britons now support the government plans

    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/conservatives-defect-ukip-over-gay-marriage-law161212
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    Dec 16, 2012 4:43 PM GMT
    What will say the Queen?
    I wonder if William will turn this right once he is King?

    Certainly his father, Charles, cannot be counted on to do anything right or decent. Look at how he used and abused Diana while banging that dried out old hag Camila without shame.

    We will always love you, Diana.
    500full.jpg
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    Dec 16, 2012 4:56 PM GMT
    I know the Queen is supposed to stay out of politics. But as the head of the Church of England can't she say something?

    She has stood against discrimination in the Commonwealth.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Dec 16, 2012 5:46 PM GMT
    She has spoken out often, but always in a non-public fashion, as her position demands. She took Archbishop Williams to task for risking losing the Episcopal Church, but as this was a "private" audience, it never made the news. She is doing what she legally can.
  • TheBizMan

    Posts: 4091

    Dec 16, 2012 6:14 PM GMT
    GAMRican said

    We will always love you, Diana.
    500full.jpg


    Why was she so special? I was young when she died.
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    Dec 16, 2012 6:19 PM GMT
    TheBizMan said
    GAMRican said

    We will always love you, Diana.
    500full.jpg


    Why was she so special? I was young when she died.


    She wasn't really. The only thing that was different about herwas that she wasn't as stuffy as the rest of the monarchy.
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    Dec 16, 2012 6:44 PM GMT
    TheBizMan said
    GAMRican said

    We will always love you, Diana.
    500full.jpg


    Why was she so special? I was young when she died.

    She was doing what each new generation of Royals should do. Modernize the behavior of the institution of the monarchy. Not in revolutionary ways, but as manners change. It shouldn't be expected that an 80-something year old queen is going to change her ways. So Charles and Diana would start those changes in their behavior.

    The problem arose because Charles was not allowed to marry the woman he loved, Camiila. Neither the institution of the monarchy nor the British public had come around to allowing him to marrying a married/divorced woman. So he had to settle for Diana. But the love wasn't there and Diana came to realize it and resented it.

    Apparently Diana and the queen clashed. Perhaps Diana was more rebellious to the ways of the institution because she resented her marriage.

    At Diana's death there was an outpouring of grief that surprised even the British public itself. I think a lot of that grief was based on the public's perception of her as wronged in marriage and by the queen. However, I feel the British public had a lot to do with the whole sorry marriage because of its attitude to allowing Charles to marry whom he will, while the public allowed divorce for themselves. They held Charles to a standard they themselves do not adher to, then blamed him when it failed.
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    Dec 16, 2012 7:29 PM GMT
    not_superman saidThe Anglican Church of Canada doesn't quite do "same sex marriages", but they bless "same sex unions"

    I remember my former rev. was very homophobic, but I don't think it's the norm. I wonder what would happen if I were to request a marriage in my home church. I expect it to be deconsecrated soon, so then it would be fair game.

    Good things happen to Anglican churches that support same sex marriage icon_smile.gifhttp://o.canada.com/2012/09/11/b-c-church-gets-windfall-from-sale-of-antique-armchair-treasures/


    It's not too different from churches here. I don't see American churches by and large blessing it either.

    But back on topic what I don't get is that the Church of England wanted protection legally from marrying gay couples and now they are complaining? Are they realizing that being homophobic is wrong or are they just afraid of losing members?

    How does the majority of clergy feel about this? What does the archbishops and so forth say about this?
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Dec 16, 2012 7:42 PM GMT
    Fascinating article, showing how this legislation could have all sorts of unintended consequences and inconsistences.

    The Church of England is divided over the subject, just as they are on the ordination of women bishops; evangelicals and Anglo-catholics oppose gay marriage, Liberals are in favour.

    The current Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, is personally opposed to gay marriage, though in favour of women bishops.

    Most of the polls in the UK show about sixty percent to two thirds in favour(or at least not opposed.)
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    Dec 16, 2012 8:42 PM GMT
    GAMRican saidWhat will say the Queen?
    I wonder if William will turn this right once he is King?

    Certainly his father, Charles, cannot be counted on to do anything right or decent. Look at how he used and abused Diana while banging that dried out old hag Camila without shame.

    We will always love you, Diana.
    500full.jpg


    Oh for fuck´s sake. Charles and Camilla have turned out to be pretty decent and are well loved in the UK.
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    Dec 16, 2012 8:47 PM GMT
    metta8 saidConservatives defect to UKIP over gay marriage law

    Polls show some anti-gay marriage Conservatives intend to vote UKIP at next election, but 60% of Britons now support the government plans

    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/conservatives-defect-ukip-over-gay-marriage-law161212


    Meh, all noise. The only people really against equal rights in the UK are the religious (ie christian and muslim) fucktards and they are a small minority. Muslims won´t go UKIP as UKIP is so racist which leaves the bigoted chavs and some of the evangelicals.

    The difference is that in the USA the party with the extreme anti gay, racist politics is called the GOP and is taken seriously. In the UK they are a minority which is hated and shunned.
  • metta

    Posts: 39118

    Dec 16, 2012 9:34 PM GMT
    TheBizMan said
    GAMRican said

    We will always love you, Diana.
    500full.jpg


    Why was she so special? I was young when she died.



    Princess Diana
    http://www.hivaware.org.uk/be-aware/princess-diana.php

    Begins at 1:27

    http://youtu.be/JnknWr2r11k?t=1m27s




    https://www.youtube.com/results?q=princess+diana+aids&sugexp=chrome,mod%3D13&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=w1

    http://alturl.com/7577u
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    Dec 17, 2012 5:16 AM GMT
    not_superman saidThe Anglican Church of Canada doesn't quite do "same sex marriages", but they bless "same sex unions"

    I remember my former rev. was very homophobic, but I don't think it's the norm. I wonder what would happen if I were to request a marriage in my home church. I expect it to be deconsecrated soon, so then it would be fair game.

    Good things happen to Anglican churches that support same sex marriage icon_smile.gifhttp://o.canada.com/2012/09/11/b-c-church-gets-windfall-from-sale-of-antique-armchair-treasures/

    So by "blessing" the union, the vicar just says a word of blessing upon the couple, but doesn't do all the ceremonial stuff?

    Or is the "blessing" a ceremony on its own, but with different liturgy from the traditional wedding?
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    Dec 17, 2012 2:18 PM GMT
    Caslon22000 said
    TheBizMan said
    GAMRican said

    We will always love you, Diana.
    500full.jpg


    Why was she so special? I was young when she died.

    She was doing what each new generation of Royals should do. Modernize the behavior of the institution of the monarchy. Not in revolutionary ways, but as manners change. It shouldn't be expected that an 80-something year old queen is going to change her ways. So Charles and Diana would start those changes in their behavior.

    The problem arose because Charles was not allowed to marry the woman he loved, Camiila. Neither the institution of the monarchy nor the British public had come around to allowing him to marrying a married/divorced woman. So he had to settle for Diana. But the love wasn't there and Diana came to realize it and resented it.

    Apparently Diana and the queen clashed. Perhaps Diana was more rebellious to the ways of the institution because she resented her marriage.

    At Diana's death there was an outpouring of grief that surprised even the British public itself. I think a lot of that grief was based on the public's perception of her as wronged in marriage and by the queen. However, I feel the British public had a lot to do with the whole sorry marriage because of its attitude to allowing Charles to marry whom he will, while the public allowed divorce for themselves. They held Charles to a standard they themselves do not adher to, then blamed him when it failed.


    This interpretation is nothing like what I have heard from people in England. Diana wasn't said to have been loved for being rebellious per se, but because she was just open and honest which was different from any of the other royals. She seemed like a really lovely, honest, normal person. But her honesty happened to go against the ways of the institution.

    And I can't see why the general public would have been more sympathetic to Charles marrying Camilla when he did a few years ago seeing how he was said to have cheated on Diana.

    And I think the difference between a normal person marrying a divorced person and a royal doing it is because that's how the Windsor's got the throne in the first place, another king married a divorced woman and had to abdicate the throne and give it to the Windsors and now rather than return the favour Charles is going to keep the throne.
  • shutoman

    Posts: 505

    Dec 17, 2012 3:57 PM GMT
    not_supermanThe Anglican Church of Canada doesn't quite do "same sex marriages", but they bless "same sex unions"


    The difference is pretty technical - someone I know who is a canon in a Canadian Cathedral was approached by his bishop recently. They wanted to talk about his boyfriend...and wasn't about about time they both got married :-)
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    Dec 17, 2012 4:11 PM GMT
    I've always felt very privileged to live in the UK.

    The gay marriage movement, brought forward very thankfully by our lovely brothers and sisters across the pond, has really been an interesting matter to watch unfold. For the most part those the public don't seem petered, as a matter of fact I'm yet to meet anyone not in support of it. It's what's known as 'Middle-England' which seem to have an issue with it, as they do with most matters of equality. It's important to keep in mind though that these people are largely fickle.

    We have an issue in the UK where people instantly believe what they read, whilst the newspapers don't have to source their information (unlike in the US I believe). So, those who read tabloid nonsense like the Daily Mail are often victims of misinformation which further fuels their incessant hatred for anything not white and middle class. I believe the results of the Levison inquiry may be changing this.

    As for the UKIP issue, they wont be elected.

    The Church of England, it was founded upon a monarchs wish to divorce his wife. It's an institution that's supposed to link religion with progression. It's failure to do so is regrettable, though not something that will largely concern the general public I should imagine. I do certainly hope Liz continues to steer it in the right direction, and have a lot of faith that William will do the same. Hopefully, Phillip wont do too much damage in the mean time.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Dec 17, 2012 4:20 PM GMT
    Trinity Episcopal, Seattle, performed its first same-sex marriage last Tuesday.
  • kew1

    Posts: 1595

    Dec 17, 2012 5:57 PM GMT
    karson said
    And I think the difference between a normal person marrying a divorced person and a royal doing it is because that's how the Windsor's got the throne in the first place, another king married a divorced woman and had to abdicate the throne and give it to the Windsors and now rather than return the favour Charles is going to keep the throne.


    Not quite , Edward 8th was a Windsor (Saxe-Coburg-Gotha until anti German sentiment in WW1 forced a name change) & abdicated to marry Wallis Simpson (twice divorced), his brother (present queen's father) became king instead.

    Going back further, the Church of England came about because a king (Henry 8th,what is it about 8ths & divorce?) wanted to divorce his wife to marry a younger woman. He'd already had to get permission from the Pope to marry the first one as she was his sister-in-law (his older brother Arthur died before becoming king). 1st wife's nephew was king of Spain & had the Pope's nuts in a vice , so Pope refused. Henry , not used to refusal, had a bit of a fit & decided to become Protestant instead, banning Catholicism in the process (& nicking all their money).

    Didn't help 2nd wife, as she had a daughter as well, he didn't divorce her but had her executed.