Trying to let go of an abusive friendship...should I say anything else or just walk away?

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  Dec 18, 2012 2:39 AM GMT

  By abusive I don't mean this person is hitting on me or anything...But in more of an mind-fuck abusive way.
  
  So here's the scenario recap. I have been "friends" (meaning we don't have sex) with a dude for like 8 months now. He's given every reason under the sun why he's not ready for a boyfriend or won't have sex with ME. But yet he wants to see me every weekend, just wants it to be us hanging out, acts all crazy when I get hit on or hit on other guys, etc. He also wants to go home together and sleep in the same bed but won't do any kind of sex.
  
  Other the course of the relationship, he's done things that are totally contrary to what friends would do. He's made out with me and given me head twice for like 2 seconds, and then will stop saying he's joking around.
  
  The abusive part of this, is he talks about other dudes he's hooked up with and how big their dicks are when he's around me. Or he'll flirt with guys but I can't. Some who are less attractive and he even TELLS ME they aren't attractive the next time he sees them at the bar. Yet, me he's known for 8 months always denys or pushes me away when I 'used to' make advances to him. On many times, he'd be the one to initiate and then stop saying he's just joking or that it'll hurt the friendship or not into me like that (bullcrap). Most times he just comes to my place and falls asleep or plays on the computer all night.
  
  The kicker came last weekend when he said, "if we would have had sex the night we met, we wouldn't be hanging out right now". That statement had every implication that he's withholding sex to control the relationship cause he's afraid our relationship will change if we do. I finally realized I don't want to be even friends with him anymore because of this. What's got me really wound up is people start thinking we're dating because we're always together, yet the truth is we go home and don't even do shit...when I could be meeting someone else.
  
  I want to tell him all this but it's pointless. I've discussed it with him over and over and over. He'll either not respond or if it's in person he'll make up excuses or leave the house. I plan to drop him without bringing it up again and just avoid all the drama because I know he'll just make it out that we're just friends, I'm too sensitive, overly sexual etc. like he's already done.
  
  I know I've been the enabler to this mess and I have to take responsibility for it too. I've been 'done' with him like 10 times already this year and keep forgiving and forgetting only to have it resurface later. It's just nice to have a best friend to go out with, but damn who needs all that aggravation?

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• JetStarBrian
  
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  Dec 18, 2012 5:09 AM GMT

  Gay friendships can be difficult at times, due to any number of things, most of which go to a lack of honesty or authenticity.
  
  One thing about friends is that they are never abusive. That's not to say a friend cannot or will not hurt you, but intent, which differentiates abuse from hurt, cannot be present in a genuine friendship. It sounds like to me that this guy may merely be using you for company.
  
  It would seem obvious he is very selfish, dishonest and immature in his behavior. A certain amount of self loathing usually is at the core of this, and these behaviors are an attempt to mask the insecurity that is very probably consuming him.
  
  Put another way, no normal person wakes up and says "I think I'll see how big of a jackass I can be today".
  
  Looking at what you have to offer, and it's spelled out in your post as clear as day. You have a forgiving heart and a nature that believes that there is some good in people no matter how much garbage they heap on it. You're true to yourself and authentic. My best guess is that he is jealous, deep inside.
  
  Although, like you, I am loathe to just break off a friendship, I have been faced with very similar scenarios (and am facing one now as a matter of fact) where "friends" were manipulative and playing mind games. You are not walking away from a friendship - your "friend" has earned his "F" through failing to be a friend in the first place.
  
  For what it's worth - My situation involves a friend who is obese, is more conservative than Pat Buchanan and is as delusional as Glenn Beck in that he is convinced that I am his "future husband". Two weeks ago we went out and he kept trying to hold hands with me walking to the bar, and kept trying to grab me and hold me from behind. Once we got to the bar, I was subjected to an excruciating hour of passive-aggressive "It sucks when guys I am interested in won't return even a bit of that interest" commentary. I have made it very clear on a number of occasions that we will never, ever be a couple. He repeatedly calls me pet names, which I have never reciprocated. It's gone from annoying to uncomfortable to disrespectful. Tolerating a lack of respect, for even five minutes says "I don't feel that I am worthy of respect". I will be having a very direct and pointed conversation with this guy when he gets back to Chicago and re-laying down ground rules. One failure to comply and we're done. He will have "earned his F".
  
  Though it may seem tough, cutting a person who is this hurtful and damaging out of your life is not only prudent, but may well be a matter of your own reputation and potential damage to it as well. People may well think you are as bad as he is because you're always together - or they'll see you as tolerant and therefore complicit in his behavior. Either way, he is doing you more damage than good, not to mention the toll he is taking on you mentally.
  
  You've got a lot more to look forward to than he does. Why give him an audience? What has he done to earn that?

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• EricLA
  
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  Dec 18, 2012 5:15 AM GMT

  I think you've answered your own question. Clearly, you get something out of the relationship, too. You want attention from this guy and would like it to progress to the next level. But you recognize this isn't a healthy relationship. Whatever you are -- friends, star-crossed lovers -- this is not a relationship that's good for you.
  
  I don't think you need to say anything to him. What would the point be? He is manipulative. He'd just say something to get you to hang in there a bit longer. It's just been 8 months, not eight years. Make the break simple. You can be honest and tell him you're not getting anything out of the friendship any more and want to move on. Or, you can wean him off you, and make more and more excuses that you're busy with work, or other friends, and hopefully he'll find someone else to become addicted to.

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• in_this_corne...
  
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  Dec 18, 2012 5:20 AM GMT

  Who has time for that? Ain't nobody. End it.

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  Dec 18, 2012 6:05 AM GMT

  If you really think he's abusive, then you don't owe him an explanation or anything. Walk away and never look back.

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  Dec 18, 2012 6:09 AM GMT

  Is this the same friend? http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2810268/

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  Dec 18, 2012 6:44 AM GMT

  LakeviewBrian saidPeople may well think you are as bad as he is because you're always together - or they'll see you as tolerant and therefore complicit in his behavior. Either way, he is doing you more damage than good, not to mention the toll he is taking on you mentally.
  
  You've got a lot more to look forward to than he does. Why give him an audience? What has he done to earn that?

  
  
  Yup..see that's what I'm thinking too. Reputation has it he's an asshole, but I was the 'understanding' person who seen his nice side. However, as time progressed that nice said is constantly over-shadowed by how silly he is. I had already told him last week that I was not interested in hearing about his sex life. What does he do? Shows me 3 guys whom he hooked up with in the past or recently. Then...he asks me later that night, "what's wrong, you seem like you're annoyed?" Almost like he doing it on purpose. Common sense would tell him that what he is doing makes me feel like I can't measure up to his hookups...why can he do it with them but not me?
  
  The reason I get upset is because how can you say we're friends, but then makeout with me when you're drunk, tease sexually then stop saying "you don't have sex with guys you care about"...but then turn around and hookup with some random guy and then tell me about it later???
  

  deltalimen saidIs this the same friend? http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2810268/

  
  
  Yes, embarrassing I know. He's actually tried pissing me off less now that he realizes I'm on a thin line with him, but he still can't seem to help himself.
  

  EricLA said
  I don't think you need to say anything to him. What would the point be? He is manipulative. He'd just say something to get you to hang in there a bit longer.

  
  
  I probably won't because last thing I need is for him to be going around telling people I stopped hanging out with him because he wouldn't have sex with me. I know he'll do it...Plus I'm just tired of talking about it. I know he realizes he has issues. Me talking about it just simply reminds him of the problem, but doesn't do anything to help change it. And that's just too bad..

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  Dec 18, 2012 6:52 AM GMT

  Look, I've hung around abusive friends before. I tolerated their bullshit (and to be honest, they tolerated mine as well) because I was in a bad place in my life and very unhappy. The users, the liars, the Decepicons, the opportunist slugs. When I realized I was worth more, I bettered myself and got rid of them. And what a LOAD of stress off my shoulders that was. Finally, an end to the emotional vampires. For your mental health get rid of him. This friendship is unbalanced: he is forcing you to tolerate too much. Good luck!

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  Dec 18, 2012 6:57 AM GMT

  Walking away sounds like a good option. I've found that a friend who isn't even willing to listen to another friend's concerns is showing a lack of respect, and not really being a friend. I would say make another effort to seriously tell him how you feel about the situation (using I language takes out most of the aggression) and then seeing how he reacts. If he truly is a friend he will listen if not it might be better to walk away and that is never an easy thing to do.

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  Dec 18, 2012 7:02 AM GMT

  Lustolove saidFinally, an end to the emotional vampires. For your mental health get rid of him. This friendship is unbalanced: he is forcing you to tolerate too much. Good luck!

  
  
  LOL, I like that...emotional vampires.
  
  I am also in a bad place in my life, well...not bad but just an adjusting phase. Like moving to a new state and having a hard time meeting steady friends in the 2 years I lived here. Plus I've tried hard to meet new people to replace him, but no one has been consistent. But now, I'm just willing to stand in the void if I need to and I've also re-connected with an old friend to get thru the holidays without him because that's the toughest part. But I know if I can get past the holidays, I can do without him come next year.
  
  

  censorthis1 saidI would say make another effort to seriously tell him how you feel about the situation (using I language takes out most of the aggression) and then seeing how he reacts.

  
  
  man, you have to understand. I've tried it LOL. I've told him before I don't want us sleeping in the same bed or going home with each other regularly if we're not having sex. All he does is give examples of close friends in the past who has allowed similar arrangements and didn't "get all weird about it". And I've told him 100 times, nobody else is going to sit and allow that to happen. And obviously they not allowing it now so...
  
  If I do have a talk with him again, it won't be over the phone or thru text. I'll have him come to my place like we're going out, and give 1 final ultimatum...either start putting out, or he can get the fuck out of my house LOL. It's not fair he gets to have a warm place to sleep but I have to suffer with blue balls while he lays next to me with his shirt off...or plays with my dick for 10 seconds and then rolls over and falls asleep.
  
  

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  Dec 18, 2012 7:14 AM GMT

  ^ *Sigh* Well if he hasn't listened anyways probably walking away will give him the point real quick.

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  Dec 18, 2012 7:17 AM GMT

  throw him from the cliff of your life
  
  listen for the splat.
  
  Brush off your hands and walk the hell away from what ever mess he is!

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• omgazn
  
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  Dec 18, 2012 7:37 AM GMT

  FuzzyPecs25 said

  Lustolove saidFinally, an end to the emotional vampires. For your mental health get rid of him. This friendship is unbalanced: he is forcing you to tolerate too much. Good luck!

  
  
  LOL, I like that...emotional vampires.
  
  I am also in a bad place in my life, well...not bad but just an adjusting phase. Like moving to a new state and having a hard time meeting steady friends in the 2 years I lived here. Plus I've tried hard to meet new people to replace him, but no one has been consistent. But now, I'm just willing to stand in the void if I need to and I've also re-connected with an old friend to get thru the holidays without him because that's the toughest part. But I know if I can get past the holidays, I can do without him come next year.
  
  

  censorthis1 saidI would say make another effort to seriously tell him how you feel about the situation (using I language takes out most of the aggression) and then seeing how he reacts.

  
  
  man, you have to understand. I've tried it LOL. I've told him before I don't want us sleeping in the same bed or going home with each other regularly if we're not having sex. All he does is give examples of close friends in the past who has allowed similar arrangements and didn't "get all weird about it". And I've told him 100 times, nobody else is going to sit and allow that to happen. And obviously they not allowing it now so...
  
  If I do have a talk with him again, it won't be over the phone or thru text. I'll have him come to my place like we're going out, and give 1 final ultimatum...either start putting out, or he can get the fuck out of my house LOL. It's not fair he gets to have a warm place to sleep but I have to suffer with blue balls while he lays next to me with his shirt off...or plays with my dick for 10 seconds and then rolls over and falls asleep.
  
  

  
  
  I think you should explain what your expectation of your friendship. Because ultimately if he is interested in you then tell him to stop playing games, if he isn't then tell him to stop interfering with your love life. If he can't follow these simple rules then I would recommend you to cancel your friendship with him.

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  Dec 18, 2012 8:00 AM GMT

  omgazn
  I think you should explain what your expectation of your friendship. Because ultimately if he is interested in you then tell him to stop playing games, if he isn't then tell him to stop interfering with your love life. If he can't follow these simple rules then I would recommend you to cancel your friendship with him.

  
  
  It would be hard to simply remain friends with him though because I know deep down inside that he's just using 'friends' as an easy way out. He wants the loyalty and consistency of a relationship but not willing to make the sacrifices to be in one.
  
  What's so bad is when we go out at night and I tell him he can't stay over, he gets mad and tells me he's just going to go do his own thing and hangs up. He expects me to be obligated to let him stay over whenever we go out, so he doesn't drink and drive. Well the kicker will be, you think our friendship would be over if we had sex when we first met...it's going to be over anyway because he can't even get his pony up to do anything.

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  Dec 18, 2012 8:01 AM GMT

  Some Friends lift us up, other drag us down.
  
  Wisdom is knowing the difference.
  Courage is doing something about it.
  

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• inmidair
  
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  Dec 18, 2012 8:02 AM GMT

  LakeviewBrian saidOne thing about friends is that they are never abusive.

  
  
  I'm going to disagree with you here-- even platonic friends can be emotionally abusive. Luckily, abusive friends can also be dumped, with or without an explanation.

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  Dec 18, 2012 8:11 AM GMT

  inmidair said
  I'm going to disagree with you here-- even platonic friends can be emotionally abusive. Luckily, abusive friends can also be dumped, with or without an explanation.

  
  
  I'm going to go the without explanation route. I know if I end it with an explanation especially for the reasons listed, it'll give him the upper hand. He'll make it seem like I was 'begging' for it and HE was the one who turned ME down. And I'm not going to let him do that.
  
  If anyone is wondering why I allowed this to happen, is because I figured it'd be like my best relationship from years ago..where in the beginning he couldn't seem to make up his mind, but the difference is after 4 months we slept together and continued our relationship for another whole year and all mind games had ceased to exist.

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  Dec 18, 2012 2:40 PM GMT

  FuzzyPecs25 said

  inmidair said
  I'm going to disagree with you here-- even platonic friends can be emotionally abusive. Luckily, abusive friends can also be dumped, with or without an explanation.

  
  
  I'm going to go the without explanation route. I know if I end it with an explanation especially for the reasons listed, it'll give him the upper hand. He'll make it seem like I was 'begging' for it and HE was the one who turned ME down. And I'm not going to let him do that.
  
  If anyone is wondering why I allowed this to happen, is because I figured it'd be like my best relationship from years ago..where in the beginning he couldn't seem to make up his mind, but the difference is after 4 months we slept together and continued our relationship for another whole year and all mind games had ceased to exist.

  
  
  I see your point, but you have to realise he's not that guy. He's not the one messing with your mind because he wants, you've given him the permission to.

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  Dec 18, 2012 2:53 PM GMT

  FuzzyPecs25 saidHe's made out with me and given me head twice for like 2 seconds, and then will stop saying he's joking around.
  
  The abusive part of this, is

  
  
  ...that he's made out with you and given you head twice for like 2 seconds, and then will stop saying he's joking around.
  
  Get away.

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  Dec 18, 2012 3:08 PM GMT

  Your friend is a player and possibly bipolar with self-esteem issues. Either dump him or establish rules by which the two of you could live.

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  Dec 18, 2012 3:20 PM GMT

  What you need to establish is ground rules, at least I think.
  If you are going to be friends, then just be friends and leave it at that. Refute any sexual advances unless you actually WANT it to be a FWB kind of relationship.
  
  I think partly the reason why it got messy is because the lines between just being friends and being fwb seemed to be continuously blurred.
  Since he sounds like he's either indecisive, has issues or is playing you, I think you should take it into your own hands and make the choice. If he's just going to be a friend to you then keep him as that; if you want more then you'll have to see if he'll reciprocate which by the sounds of it doesn't seem likely.
  
  Ask him. If he just wants to be friends only then leave it at that and at least you know where he's at. If he wants more, which again I don't think he will say since he seems indecisive or a player, then discuss the particular dynamic it's going to be (i.e. fwb or more).
  
  To each their own of course and I make no judgements, just that it's stuff like this that I personally choose to never have fwb. I feel it ruins too many, what would have been, good friendships.

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  Dec 18, 2012 4:03 PM GMT

  FuzzyPecs25 said

  omgazn
  .

  
  
  . . . . I know deep down inside that he's just using 'friends' as an easy way out. He wants the loyalty and consistency of a relationship but not willing to make the sacrifices to be in one.
  
  . . . I'll have him come to my place like we're going out, and give 1 final ultimatum...either start putting out, or he can get the fuck out of my house . . .
  

  
  Like you said, you already know that he is using you, and you already know that a sexual relationship just isn't in the cards. So why give the "ultimatum",that you know will not get you a response that you want. Save yourself the drama, and just call him and tell him it's over.

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  Dec 18, 2012 6:39 PM GMT

  I liked the progression this thread made.
  
  One quote I've always loved was "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
  
  And tell yourself, for the love of God, "you're better than that."
  
  Life's full of grief enough to have to play at where we stand with others.

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  Dec 18, 2012 7:44 PM GMT

  Puppenjunge said
  
  Like you said, you already know that he is using you, and you already know that a sexual relationship just isn't in the cards. So why give the "ultimatum",that you know will not get you a response that you want. Save yourself the drama, and just call him and tell him it's over.

  
  
  I'm just not the type to have an issue with someone and not say so, if I've seen them for a long enough period of time.
  
  i just want to let him know that what he said the other day had all the implications of the fact that the simple reason why he can't go to the next level with me is all about control and fear. And that I can no longer keep it as "friends" (yet monopolizing my time as if it were a relationship) especially when we have people thinking we're together.
  
  I want to give that 1 last ultimatum because all along I've been too soft about it. Next time he comes over, I'm not going to ask. I'm not going to be kind about it. I'm going to say it before we even leave the house. I'm going to say straight up..."if you think you're going to sleep over here tonight when we get home from the bar and play this game called, "we're friends and not have sex", you can get your ass up and get the fuck out of my house." See I haven't done that yet...but this will let him know I'm not playing anymore.
  
  Nobody else is going to allow him to come home with them at night and lay in the bed and not have sex. I don't even know why he be trying me like that (I know because I have allowed it)

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