What should Comprehensive Immigration Reform look like?

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    Dec 22, 2012 6:20 PM GMT
    Congressional Hispanic Caucus Principles

    1.Requires the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. to register with the federal government, submit to fingerprinting and a criminal background check, learn English and American civics, and pay taxes to contribute fully and legally to our economy and earn a path to permanent residency and eventual citizenship;
    2. Protects the unity and sanctity of the family, including the families of bi-national, same-sex couples, by reducing the family backlogs and keeping spouses, parents, and children together;
    3. Attracts the best and the brightest investors, innovators, and skilled professionals, including those in science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) studies, to help strengthen our economy, create jobs, and build a brighter future for all Americans;
    4. Builds on the extraordinary success of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program and incorporates DREAMers—those who were brought to the U.S. at a young age and are Americans but for a piece of paper—into the mainstream of life in the United States through a path to citizenship so that America benefits from their scholastic achievements, military service and pursuit of their dreams;
    5. Includes a balanced, workable solution for the agriculture industry that ensures agricultural workers have a route to citizenship and employers have the workers and American agriculture continues to lead in our global economy;
    6. Ends the exploitation of U.S. and immigrant workers by providing sufficient, safe, and legal avenues for foreign workers to fill legitimate gaps in our workforce, with full labor rights, protection from discrimination, and a reasonable path to permanency that lifts up wages and working conditions for both native and foreign-born workers and their families;
    7. Ensures smart and reasonable enforcement that protects our borders and fosters commerce by targeting serious criminals and real threats at our northern and southern borders and promotes the safe and legitimate movement of people and goods at our ports of entry and which are essential to our economy;
    8. Establishes a workable employment verification system that prevents unlawful employment and rewards employers and employees who play by the rules, while protecting Americans’ right to work and their privacy; and
    9. Renews our commitment to citizenship, to ensure all workers pay their fair share of taxes, fully integrate into our way of life and bear the same responsibilities as all Americans and reaffirms our shared belief that the Citizenship Clause of the Constitution is a fundamental freedom that must be preserved.

    League of United Latin American Citizens.(LULAC)
    Comprehensive Immigration Reform

    Allow undocumented workers already in the U.S. to contribute to the U.S. economy and society by providing them with a pathway to citizenship;

    Reduce the backlog of individuals seeking residency or citizenship;

    Recognize that immigrants are an integral part of the U.S. labor force by addressing employment-based immigration needs and reforming the visa system for issuing permanent and temporary visas for high-skilled & low-skilled workers – this will allow workers to fill jobs already available to them and will better position the U.S. in the global economy and the global labor recruitment arena;

    Ensure strong worker protections are in place before any "guest worker" type provisions are considered,

    Reunite American families by allowing a U.S. citizen or permanent resident to sponsor their same-sex partner for immigration to the U.S., a right which is currently denied - this will not redefine marriage and would not repeal the Defense of Marriage Act law – however, it will benefit both these American citizens and the companies which employ them here in the U.S.; and

    Address our enforcement needs in a manner that is just, and consistent with our existing due process and civil rights laws.

    What do you think?
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    Dec 22, 2012 7:00 PM GMT
    AMNESTY FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yay.
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    Dec 22, 2012 7:49 PM GMT
    @msuNtx, not quite sure how to take that comment, sarcasm??
  • Webster666

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    Dec 22, 2012 10:23 PM GMT
    Build a "Berlin Wall" all along the entire border.
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    Dec 22, 2012 10:49 PM GMT
    Walter92 saidWhat should Comprehensive Immigration Reform look like?
    LA, NYC, and Miami.
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    Dec 23, 2012 12:19 AM GMT
    Basically: "hey everyone, you can break the law too and one day you also will be able to get away with it, haha! Oh, and forget going through the legal route because you'll just have to wait longer!"
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Dec 23, 2012 12:46 AM GMT
    i'm generally for amnesty, and an accelrated path to citizenship. with obvious criminal convictions disqualifiers.

    the conversation is almost always centered around mexican immigrants here, but we lose alot of intellectual capital by allowing foreign students of all nationalities to attend colleges here and then deny them the opportunity to put that education to work in the US.

    there also has to be a very accomodating guest worker program as part of the reform. The Agriculture and Food service industries would collapse if all immigrant labor was removed. americans won't do those jobs, even homeless, and citizens on welfare won't do those jobs. (maybe that's another discussion about entitlement reform)
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    Dec 23, 2012 1:13 AM GMT
    mocktwinkles saidBasically: "Oh, and forget going through the legal route..."


    There is no legal route for most immigrants, specially low-skilled immigrants.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only legal ways to immigrate legally to this country is:

    1. Family-Based Immigration.
    -US Citizen or Legal Permanent Resident can petition for family members. Although I think LPR cannot petition for their siblings.

    2.Employment Based Immigration.
    Available for people with an extraordinary skill, for people with a college degree in simple English I think.

    How about the immigrants who can't afford to go to school? What legal pathway is available for them if they want to provide a better future for thier families?
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    Dec 23, 2012 1:32 AM GMT
    Walter92 said
    mocktwinkles saidBasically: "Oh, and forget going through the legal route..."


    There is no legal route for most immigrants, specially low-skilled immigrants.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only legal ways to immigrate legally to this country is:

    1. Family-Based Immigration.
    -US Citizen or Legal Permanent Resident can petition for family members. Although I think LPR cannot petition for their siblings.

    2.Employment Based Immigration.
    Available for people with an extraordinary skill, for people with a college degree in simple English I think.

    How about the immigrants who can't afford to go to school? What legal pathway is available for them if they want to provide a better future for thier families?

    http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1326.html
    http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1318.html
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    Dec 23, 2012 1:47 AM GMT
    Deportation is obviously not an option because its would cost too much. I think amnesty is really the only solution to the current amount of immigrants here.

    However I don't think we should try to make immigration harder or curve the amount of immigrants we have. Our immigration debate is way too focused on Hispanics especially Mexicans. There are many Asians and East Asians who come here to work and to be honest these people always have been immigrating in. They tend to be very educated and it would be a loss to us to reform immigration that while centered on Mexican immigrants shuts them out too.
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    Dec 23, 2012 1:55 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1326.html
    http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1318.html


    Unfortunately, Diversity Visas go to people of countries with a low immigration pattern in the United States. Mexico, for example, cannot enter the Diversity Visa because of the high level of immigrants coming into the country already.
    This is not a fix or a legal pathway option for many people.
  • thadjock

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    Dec 23, 2012 2:48 AM GMT
    Walter92 said
    mocktwinkles saidBasically: "Oh, and forget going through the legal route..."


    There is no legal route for most immigrants, specially low-skilled immigrants.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only legal ways to immigrate legally to this country is:

    ?


    military service is another path,

    honorably serving or honorable discharged serving the country guarantees the right to citizenship.

    and i believe it extends to children and spouses of military personell.

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    Dec 23, 2012 2:53 AM GMT
    thadjock said
    Walter92 said
    mocktwinkles saidBasically: "Oh, and forget going through the legal route..."


    There is no legal route for most immigrants, specially low-skilled immigrants.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only legal ways to immigrate legally to this country is:

    ?


    military service is another path,

    honorably serving or honorable discharged serving the country guarantees the right to citizenship.


    Many of them do serve in the military but there's no gaurantee they will be coming back home alive or in a body bag.

    We should have an easier way for immigrants to come into the country. And we should redistribute immigrants to states with smaller populations. So instead of having everyone move to big overcrowded cities force them to move to places like Montana, the Dokotas or Wyoming. One that will probably help reshape the political landscape in favor of the Democrats in those locations and add to diversity.
  • thadjock

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    Dec 23, 2012 3:03 AM GMT
    MashogaNubianPrince said And we should redistribute immigrants to states with smaller populations. So instead of having everyone move to big overcrowded cities force them to move to places like Montana, the Dokotas or Wyoming. One that will probably help reshape the political landscape in favor of the Democrats in those locations and add to diversity.


    welcome to the land of the free!....oh and by the way you're required to live in south dakota.

    wtf???
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    Dec 23, 2012 3:32 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]thadjock said[/cite
    military service is another path,

    honorably serving or honorable discharged serving the country guarantees the right to citizenship.

    and i believe it extends to children and spouses of military personell.

    [/quote]

    how though? as far as I know, you need to be a US citizen in order to enroll in the military.
  • thadjock

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    Dec 23, 2012 7:10 AM GMT
    Walter92 said[quote][cite]thadjock said[/cite
    military service is another path,

    honorably serving or honorable discharged serving the country guarantees the right to citizenship.

    and i believe it extends to children and spouses of military personell.



    how though? as far as I know, you need to be a US citizen in order to enroll in the military. [/quote]

    on that you would be wrong

    http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/noncitizenjoin.htm
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    Dec 23, 2012 11:00 PM GMT
    @thadjock
    "First of all, in order to join the U.S. military as a non-citizen, you must be currently living permanently (and legally) in the United States."

    undocumented immigrants living in the US cannot join the military.
  • thadjock

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    Dec 23, 2012 11:59 PM GMT
    Walter92 said@thadjock
    "First of all, in order to join the U.S. military as a non-citizen, you must be currently living permanently (and legally) in the United States."

    undocumented immigrants living in the US cannot join the military.

    first of all your statement that you must be a US citizen to join the US military was false.

    second, just pay somebody to marry you, then you win the green card and can apply for citizenship.
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    Dec 24, 2012 5:52 AM GMT
    thadjock said
    first of all your statement that you must be a US citizen to join the US military was false.



    I see. I should've clarified I meant undocummented immigrants living here.
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    Jan 28, 2013 4:05 PM GMT


    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/28/fox-news-poll-66-percent-favor-path-to-citizenship-for-illegal-immigrants-with/
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    Jan 29, 2013 4:59 AM GMT
    Outline for a potential Comprehensive Reform Bill released today by a group of eight senators. Tomorrow, President Obama will announce his vision for Immigration Reform.

    1. Creating stronger borders: Under the plan, creating a path to citizenship is contingent on strengthening border protections using “the latest technology, infrastructure, and personnel.” That would be achieved by:

    Increasing the number of unmanned drones along the border.
    Increasing the number of border-patrol agents.
    Improving tracking of whether visitors on temporary visas have left the country as required.
    Creating a commission of governors, attorneys general, and community leaders from the Southwest to weigh in on implementation of these security measures.

    2. Registering with the government. As those border protections are put in place, undocumented immigrants could register with the government to begin becoming citizens. To get “probationary” status, which would let them live and work legally in the U.S., undocumented immigrants would have to commit to:

    Passing a background check.
    Paying a fine and back taxes.
    Getting no access to federal public benefits until granted full citizenship.

    3. Moving to the back of the line. Undocumented immigrants would start at the end of the line, meaning they wouldn’t receive a green card until everyone already legally in line gets theirs. The remaining hurdles to citizenship could include:

    Another background check.
    Paying taxes.
    Learning English and civics.
    Proving that they are and have been employed in the United States, although the bipartisan plan also proposes making it harder for undocumented immigrants to get jobs in the U.S. in the first place.
    Children and agricultural workers would be subject to different rules to gain citizenship.


    The plan’s three other pillars were described broadly. First, it would make getting citizenship easier for immigrants who receive a Ph.D. or master’s degree in the United States in science, technology, engineering, or math. Second, the plan would create a “tough” system to verify the immigration status of potential employees, making it easier for employers to know whether they are hiring a legal immigrant. Finally, the plan would make it easier for employers to hire immigrants for low-skilled jobs that they can’t fill with Americans.

    Fair enough? Thoughts?
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Jan 29, 2013 3:41 PM GMT
    Walter92 saidOutline for a potential Comprehensive Reform Bill released today by a group of eight senators. Tomorrow, President Obama will announce his vision for Immigration Reform.

    1. Creating stronger borders: Under the plan, creating a path to citizenship is contingent on strengthening border protections using “the latest technology, infrastructure, and personnel.” That would be achieved by:

    Increasing the number of unmanned drones along the border.
    Increasing the number of border-patrol agents.
    Improving tracking of whether visitors on temporary visas have left the country as required.
    Creating a commission of governors, attorneys general, and community leaders from the Southwest to weigh in on implementation of these security measures.

    2. Registering with the government. As those border protections are put in place, undocumented immigrants could register with the government to begin becoming citizens. To get “probationary” status, which would let them live and work legally in the U.S., undocumented immigrants would have to commit to:

    Passing a background check.
    Paying a fine and back taxes.
    Getting no access to federal public benefits until granted full citizenship.

    3. Moving to the back of the line. Undocumented immigrants would start at the end of the line, meaning they wouldn’t receive a green card until everyone already legally in line gets theirs. The remaining hurdles to citizenship could include:

    Another background check.
    Paying taxes.
    Learning English and civics.
    Proving that they are and have been employed in the United States, although the bipartisan plan also proposes making it harder for undocumented immigrants to get jobs in the U.S. in the first place.
    Children and agricultural workers would be subject to different rules to gain citizenship.


    The plan’s three other pillars were described broadly. First, it would make getting citizenship easier for immigrants who receive a Ph.D. or master’s degree in the United States in science, technology, engineering, or math. Second, the plan would create a “tough” system to verify the immigration status of potential employees, making it easier for employers to know whether they are hiring a legal immigrant. Finally, the plan would make it easier for employers to hire immigrants for low-skilled jobs that they can’t fill with Americans.

    Fair enough? Thoughts?


    I agree with above. However the second wave of immigration happened after each amnesty was declared in the past.

    This is clearly not blanket amnesty as in the past. But I think there should be quick and rapid deportation of new illegal immigrants after your law would be enacted.

    Frankly I am not sure exactly how to prevent new illegals. In the past once granted amnesty undocumented immigrants stepped up in the working hierarchy and often actively employe new illegals in start up business.

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    Feb 03, 2013 5:32 AM GMT
    thadjock saidi'm generally for amnesty, and an accelrated path to citizenship. with obvious criminal convictions disqualifiers.

    the conversation is almost always centered around mexican immigrants here, but we lose alot of intellectual capital by allowing foreign students of all nationalities to attend colleges here and then deny them the opportunity to put that education to work in the US.

    there also has to be a very accomodating guest worker program as part of the reform. The Agriculture and Food service industries would collapse if all immigrant labor was removed. americans won't do those jobs, even homeless, and citizens on welfare won't do those jobs. (maybe that's another discussion about entitlement reform)


    Americans won't do those jobs AT THE WAGES OFFERED. That said, do we want to pay $20 per pound for apples?
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Feb 03, 2013 4:24 PM GMT
    sfbayguy said
    Americans won't do those jobs AT THE WAGES OFFERED. That said, do we want to pay $20 per pound for apples?


    ultimately the consumer/end user is responsible for setting the wage level paid for any job, through the price they're willing to pay for any product/service.

    if the consumer won't pay an extra $200 for a car to have the electronic components assembled in the US, then those jobs go to china, brasil, mexico, india etc where there are workers who will assemble those parts for $200 less.

    once upon a time consumers demanded quality first and were willing to pay for it, but in the last few decades, there's been a race to the bottom, with consumers demanding the very lowest price, and manufacturers/growers/service providers tripping over themselves trying to be the lowest cost option.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Feb 03, 2013 4:43 PM GMT
    sfbayguy said
    thadjock saidi'm generally for amnesty, and an accelrated path to citizenship. with obvious criminal convictions disqualifiers.

    the conversation is almost always centered around mexican immigrants here, but we lose alot of intellectual capital by allowing foreign students of all nationalities to attend colleges here and then deny them the opportunity to put that education to work in the US.

    there also has to be a very accomodating guest worker program as part of the reform. The Agriculture and Food service industries would collapse if all immigrant labor was removed. americans won't do those jobs, even homeless, and citizens on welfare won't do those jobs. (maybe that's another discussion about entitlement reform)


    Americans won't do those jobs AT THE WAGES OFFERED. That said, do we want to pay $20 per pound for apples?


    I think there has to be a level of honesty in the whole debate. Americans profit on the backs of illegal immigrants.

    I noticed a difference when i moved from NYC to Los Angeles . The majority of the manual labor force are undocumented. It is to the point that locals IMHO have a significant higher standard of living because of it.

    The local and state government is complicit in allowing them to stay because indirectly it bolsters the economy. We have a 50% hit and run rate for accidents because of the amount of unlicensed drivers.

    The maintenance / Gardner who has been coming around for the past 4 years is one of the hardest workers I have met. He clearly has gout that is affecting his hands but shrugs it off when I offer help.

    One Christmas DAY ! he came bye to start repairing a fence. When I let him know that that he should go home because the neighbors would likely call the police on him I see his 6 year old son helping him. A memory that haunts me years later.

    This country has some soul searching to do. If we have laws WE MUST enforce them. We cannot have sanctuary cities anymore if comprehensive immigration is to go forward.