banning the burqa

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 23, 2012 5:45 AM GMT
    IN the last couple of days Ive stumbled upon the talks given by ayaan hirsi ali about the intolerance of islam. Should the burqa be a matter of free choice or can the state step in if they feel that something like the burqa has a negative effect on society? which is more important individual choice or community/government concerns?
  • Bicuriouscool

    Posts: 233

    Dec 23, 2012 7:26 AM GMT
    everyone should have a free choice of their own sexual preference, clothes and speech...(add to the list)
  • monet

    Posts: 1093

    Dec 23, 2012 7:28 AM GMT
    Are you asking about in the USA or in Islamic countries?
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    Dec 23, 2012 7:49 AM GMT
    monet saidAre you asking about in the USA or in Islamic countries?


    western nations
  • Buddha

    Posts: 1767

    Dec 23, 2012 8:23 AM GMT
    I don't believe in banning the burqa for phobic or national/cultural reasons, such as "oh but it doesn't belong in our long tradition of x".

    I do believe in banning the burqa when it has been imposed on the woman wearing it. In some cases where the burqa has been banned, it just ended up with the woman not being allowed to outside at all.

    Additionally, even though a woman chooses to wear it, it can also be a part of a norm which in turns oppresses the female gender and/or sex; in which I am also in favor of banning the burqa.

    I want a society that gets rid off all signs that indicate religious normativity, especially in schools and education.
  • Laurence

    Posts: 942

    Dec 23, 2012 8:26 AM GMT
    I think people should wear what they like, as long as they're not in a job that requires a particular uniform, like the police for instance, or if they work somewhere that requires human interaction, where you need to see someone's face.

    Like nurses, doctors, teachers etc.

    Things like Burqas and face masks should also be required to be removed when dealing with law enforcement.

    Personally I find them depressing. As, no matter what people say, I see them as a sign of the oppression of women.

    Lozx
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    Dec 23, 2012 8:32 AM GMT
    Islam needs to remove many more things apart from Burqa like any other religion. Sadly Muslims believe their religion is the best in town.
    I feel for Muslim women and LGBTs. Those Muslim women have to wear the Burqa in damn 40ºC (104ºF) temperature in places like Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. They go to swimming pool and beaches in Burqa. I don't think any sensible person given option would choose to do that. If it had been about freedom I doubt except few many would have chosen options like this. Its more about religion dictating your life instead of giving you choices.
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    Dec 23, 2012 8:37 AM GMT
    Im torn by the whole issue.

    In principle i believe that people should do whatever they like provided its doesn't effect other peoples right to do the same.

    At the same time, the burqa feels really conservative and misogynistic.
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    Dec 23, 2012 8:41 AM GMT
    jayj014 saidIm torn by the whole issue.

    In principle i believe that people should do whatever they like provided its doesn't effect other peoples right to do the same.

    At the same time, the burqa feels really conservative and misogynistic.

    You are not wrong. It should be banned. Whenever I see a woman in Burqa I feel she is oppressed. No other feeling comes to my mind. And its not because I am culturally ignorant. I have lived among Muslim people and interacted with them on day to day life. So I am not passing judgement based on some newspaper article.
  • GWriter

    Posts: 1446

    Dec 23, 2012 12:04 PM GMT
    I think it's insane to believe that any woman would choose to wear that if she were give a _truly_ free choice. After all, what does it represent? What is the meaning of it? The whole point is to say that a woman is somehow "indecent" if seen in public. It's a disgrace.
    Just ask yourself: Would you willingly wear that every time you went out of your home?
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    Dec 23, 2012 12:46 PM GMT
    When It was 100degree in NYC, women still wore them. I am not sure how they're deal with such hot weather.
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    Dec 23, 2012 12:47 PM GMT
    Turin saidWhen It was 100degree in NYC, women still wore them. I am not sure how they're deal with such hot weather.

    Same way they deal with not able to drive, vote, go out alone and many more women oppression imposed on them by these people.
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    Dec 23, 2012 1:07 PM GMT
    Religion doing what it does best, dominating humanity. icon_evil.gif
  • calibro

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    Dec 23, 2012 1:34 PM GMT
    i like how a lot of people assume the burqa is an object of female oppression without asking the women themselves if they mind.
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    Dec 23, 2012 1:38 PM GMT
    calibro saidi like how a lot of people assume the burqa is an object of female oppression without asking the women themselves if they mind.


    Well the two friends I had that wore them both hated them and only wore them to appease their traditional families. They were both foreign students and from their views it seemed to me that it just served to shame them for their bodies.
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    Dec 23, 2012 1:47 PM GMT
    Unless they cause those who seem them to light on fire when they see them, this shouldn't be an issue. icon_neutral.gif
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    Dec 23, 2012 1:50 PM GMT
    calibro saidi like how a lot of people assume the burqa is an object of female oppression without asking the women themselves if they mind.

    Yeah like asking prisoners whether they like the prison or not?
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Dec 23, 2012 2:24 PM GMT
    Shagglot said
    calibro saidi like how a lot of people assume the burqa is an object of female oppression without asking the women themselves if they mind.

    Yeah like asking prisoners whether they like the prison or not?


    actually, many women who wear burqas do so happily. it's a question of your western ideals over their aesthetics. if you are raised to believe the burqa is as natural as wearing socks, it's not the extreme prison you think it is. you're totally disregarding that many women believe in the ideas of modesty behind the burqa
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    Dec 23, 2012 2:41 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]Shagglot said[/cite]
    calibro said
    Shagglot said
    calibro saidi like how a lot of people assume the burqa is an object of female oppression without asking the women themselves if they mind.

    Yeah like asking prisoners whether they like the prison or not?


    actually, many women who wear burqas do so happily. it's a question of your western ideals over their aesthetics. if you are raised to believe the burqa is as natural as wearing socks, it's not the extreme prison you think it is. you're totally disregarding that many women believe in the ideas of modesty behind the burqa

    Obviously if you raise a kid in Prison without showing him the outside world his life will be that of a frog in the well. Its same with those women who have been raised in a conservative religiously dominated male centric society. Bring them to western world and show how many privileges they can enjoy and then ask how many of them are still ready to follow all those orthodox values ? I bet very small percentage and most of them will be due to the family pressure instead of their own accord.
    I am from a conservative society where women are supposed to always think about her husband's interest over her own. She is suppose to be an ideal woman staying inside home cooking for his husband, taking care of children. But all of this are changing in bigger cities where educated women work and none of them advocate older orthodox values.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Dec 23, 2012 2:42 PM GMT
    Shagglot said
    calibro said
    Shagglot said
    calibro saidi like how a lot of people assume the burqa is an object of female oppression without asking the women themselves if they mind.

    Yeah like asking prisoners whether they like the prison or not?


    actually, many women who wear burqas do so happily. it's a question of your western ideals over their aesthetics. if you are raised to believe the burqa is as natural as wearing socks, it's not the extreme prison you think it is. you're totally disregarding that many women believe in the ideas of modesty behind the burqa

    Obviously if you raise a kid in Prison without showing him the outside world his life will be that of a frog in the well. Its same with those women who have been raised in a conservative religiously dominated male centric society. Bring them to western world and show how many privileges they can enjoy and then ask how many of them are still ready to follow all those orthodox values or not? I bet very small percentage and most of them will be due to the family pressure instead of their own accord.
    I am from a conservative society where women are supposed to always think about her husband's interest over her own. She is suppose to be an ideal woman staying inside home cooking for his husband, taking care of children. But soon all of this are changing in bigger cities where educated women work and none of them enjoy the older ways of putting her husband's interest over hers.


    so do orthodox jews oppress women too?
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    Dec 23, 2012 2:56 PM GMT
    calibro said
    Shagglot said
    calibro said
    Shagglot said
    calibro saidi like how a lot of people assume the burqa is an object of female oppression without asking the women themselves if they mind.

    Yeah like asking prisoners whether they like the prison or not?


    actually, many women who wear burqas do so happily. it's a question of your western ideals over their aesthetics. if you are raised to believe the burqa is as natural as wearing socks, it's not the extreme prison you think it is. you're totally disregarding that many women believe in the ideas of modesty behind the burqa

    Obviously if you raise a kid in Prison without showing him the outside world his life will be that of a frog in the well. Its same with those women who have been raised in a conservative religiously dominated male centric society. Bring them to western world and show how many privileges they can enjoy and then ask how many of them are still ready to follow all those orthodox values or not? I bet very small percentage and most of them will be due to the family pressure instead of their own accord.
    I am from a conservative society where women are supposed to always think about her husband's interest over her own. She is suppose to be an ideal woman staying inside home cooking for his husband, taking care of children. But soon all of this are changing in bigger cities where educated women work and none of them enjoy the older ways of putting her husband's interest over hers.


    so do orthodox jews oppress women too?

    Sorry not much idea about jews so I won't give any half baked ignorant argument.
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    Dec 23, 2012 3:12 PM GMT
    I do think it is a personal choice but I respect woman who do wear burqa. For a woman to wear a burqa makes them closer to God. it is one of the requirements for a woman to cover her body so no man look at her in a lustful way. I also understand all the weird looks woman get when she wears the attire, which makes it more difficult for them to follow God's path. That is why you don't see many young women wearing burgas in western countries because it is not the norm and not many people like the feeling of being an outsider.

    Burqas are not there to oppress women. Men and women are born differently and that is a scientific fact. Islam provides a role for men and for women. We all have a role to play until we die.
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    Dec 23, 2012 3:39 PM GMT
    ryan2013 saidI do think it is a personal choice but I respect woman who do wear burqa. For a woman to wear a burqa makes them closer to God. it is one of the requirements for a woman to cover her body so no man look at her in a lustful way. I also understand all the weird looks woman get when she wears the attire, which makes it more difficult for them to follow God's path. That is why you don't see many young women wearing burgas in western countries because it is not the norm and not many people like the feeling of being an outsider.

    Burqas are not there to oppress women. Men and women are born differently and that is a scientific fact. Islam provides a role for men and for women. We all have a role to play until we die.

    Here we go. Yeah Islam also says being gay is a sin. How is that going for you? How do you live with that?
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    Dec 23, 2012 3:47 PM GMT
    Emotionally, I'm against the burqa. I can't believe that any woman truly wants to wear such a thing (unless she has been brainwashed or is being pressured by her family/culture).

    Intellectually, I'm for people's right to practice their religion (as long as they are not hurting anyone). It makes me uncomfortable when the government arbitrarily chooses which religious acts are legal & which are illegal.
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    Dec 23, 2012 3:48 PM GMT
    calibro said
    Shagglot said
    calibro saidi like how a lot of people assume the burqa is an object of female oppression without asking the women themselves if they mind.

    Yeah like asking prisoners whether they like the prison or not?


    actually, many women who wear burqas do so happily. it's a question of your western ideals over their aesthetics. if you are raised to believe the burqa is as natural as wearing socks, it's not the extreme prison you think it is. you're totally disregarding that many women believe in the ideas of modesty behind the burqa


    Sadly, I think if they ever said how they honestly felt about wearing it, they could face persecution depending on their country and family. I believe they are living in fear inside their male-dominated society and culture