Why do people bring straight people into discussions about gay problems.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 25, 2012 5:06 PM GMT
    This happens a lot, even on RJ.

    If someone brings up an issue that is especially relevant in the gay community, rather than engage the issue, some people just bring up that the issue also exists to some degree in the straight community. I don't really understand what argument they are trying to make.

    It's like saying

    "why don't gay people even pick up their dogs poops"

    only to hear

    "well some straight people don't pick up their dogs poop!"


    It's frustrating because if I'm gay, and I'm talking to another gay person, then I don't care what straight people are doing. I'm talking about us and how it impacts us. I remember as a child if I would do poorly on the assignment, I would come home and tell my mom that the WHOLE CLASS did poorly on that assignment. And she would say "the whole class isn't my kid, I want to know why YOU did poorly"

    Why can't we talk about our issues without having to validate our cultural pathologies by looking for instances where straight people falter too?

  • Splendidus_1

    Posts: 611

    Dec 25, 2012 5:32 PM GMT
    I get to some extent what you're trying to say, but the problem is when considering something, you can't put to the side that everything makes part of a bigger picture. Almost rarely will you find a situation that can be completely isolated.

    Sometimes there's a thin line separating issues that concern solely the gay community from those that actually concern any person (no matter their sexuality), thus the "some straight people go through the same" answer.

    I guess in the end it really comes down to the topic you're considering - some may actually be like "boo hoo, it's only because we're gay" when clearly it's not about that. So people, don't go "gaying" - I guess it's a verb now - your problems and try and see what's really happening.
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    Dec 25, 2012 5:39 PM GMT
    I wonder if straight people have ever had this discussion. icon_razz.gif
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    Dec 25, 2012 6:07 PM GMT
    DEKIRUMAN said I remember as a child if I would do poorly on the assignment, I would come home and tell my mom that the WHOLE CLASS did poorly on that assignment. And she would say "the whole class isn't my kid, I want to know why YOU did poorly"


    How about the standard: If everyone goes and jumps off the bridge, are you going to jump too? icon_rolleyes.gif
    I HATED that one....

    in answer to your question - imo, it should be - all inclusive.. Like, "(al)most everyone," or "in general." Not throwing the "straight people" into the mix.. It seems to be a feeble and unnecessary attempt to normalize ones sexuality either to their self or to others.....it only causes a furthering of the misconceptions and generalizations thereby achieving the opposite outcome...... why even bother to compare? What's the point, really? I don't see one...
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    Dec 25, 2012 7:20 PM GMT
    Good point. We're all human. How we act in society isn't any different from our heterosexual and bisexual equals. Our cars aren't gay cars. Marriage is gay marriage, it simple is a Civil acknowledgment by our governing body, of what every human being deserves. Why allow ourselves to be segregated against by feeding into the same destructive mentality.
    We should all start thinking as one body. Face to face, shoulder to shoulder, and back to back. We're all brothers here after all.
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    Dec 25, 2012 7:28 PM GMT
    I have no dog to pick poops up of.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Dec 25, 2012 7:39 PM GMT
    Because often someone is asking a question *as if* it ONLY applies to gay people. "Why are gay guys blablabla..." Well, often the answer is, they aren't any more so than any other demographic, so why put the question that way?

    In other words it is an expression of homophobia.
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    Dec 25, 2012 8:17 PM GMT
    People do it with race, religion, gender, political affiliations and so on. Everyone is always going to make a comparison to a different and often times larger group who we perceive as having it easier or some sort of advantage.
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    Dec 25, 2012 8:25 PM GMT
    DEKIRUMAN said

    Why can't we talk about our issues without having to validate our cultural pathologies by looking for instances where straight people falter too?




    MikeW saidBecause often someone is asking a question *as if* it ONLY applies to gay people. "Why are gay guys blablabla..." Well, often the answer is, they aren't any more so than any other demographic, so why put the question that way?

    In other words it is an expression of homophobia.



    Very interesting....
    Why Do we need to compare ourselves and our lives with what straight people do? It doesn't make us feel any better about ourselves and doesn't solve the issues that only we go through.
    There are similarities, but heterosexual life solutions may not apply to us because they handle it much differently.
    Take Gay marriage for example. It's funny how many straights compare, judge, even assume, that we cannot possibly go through the same thing they do and do not have the same issues than we do because social/political/religious structures tell Them their marriage is the only legit communion. How could they possibly know what's really going on with our hearts and in our minds???? And yet they, and we, still compare notes.
    Go figure.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 25, 2012 8:57 PM GMT
    DEKIRUMAN saidThis happens a lot, even on RJ.

    If someone brings up an issue that is especially relevant in the gay community, rather than engage the issue, some people just bring up that the issue also exists to some degree in the straight community. I don't really understand what argument they are trying to make.

    It's like saying

    "why don't gay people even pick up their dogs poops"

    only to hear

    "well some straight people don't pick up their dogs poop!"


    It's frustrating because if I'm gay, and I'm talking to another gay person, then I don't care what straight people are doing. I'm talking about us and how it impacts us. I remember as a child if I would do poorly on the assignment, I would come home and tell my mom that the WHOLE CLASS did poorly on that assignment. And she would say "the whole class isn't my kid, I want to know why YOU did poorly"

    Why can't we talk about our issues without having to validate our cultural pathologies by looking for instances where straight people falter too?



    What's the point in segregating between the two groups when the same issue crosses he sexuality barrier. Gay people are often too gay-centric and don't spend much time outside of their own group. Its important to know that certain issues aren't just gay problems. I think you're being far too sensitive to an issue that doesn't really matter...at all. Try spending your energy on things that matter.
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    Dec 25, 2012 8:59 PM GMT
    JRaRJ saidGood point. We're all human. How we act in society isn't any different from our heterosexual and bisexual equals. Our cars aren't gay cars. Marriage is gay marriage, it simple is a Civil acknowledgment by our governing body, of what every human being deserves. Why allow ourselves to be segregated against by feeding into the same destructive mentality.
    We should all start thinking as one body. Face to face, shoulder to shoulder, and back to back. We're all brothers here after all.


    This x 1000
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    Dec 25, 2012 9:09 PM GMT
    Because gay people grow up with a notion of seperation from straight and gay....kind of like feminine and masculine guys....or bitchy/sassy vs down to earth/kind

    People have to categorize things in order to see differences.
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    Dec 25, 2012 9:10 PM GMT
    redsoxfan791 said
    JRaRJ saidGood point. We're all human. How we act in society isn't any different from our heterosexual and bisexual equals. Our cars aren't gay cars. Marriage is gay marriage, it simple is a Civil acknowledgment by our governing body, of what every human being deserves. Why allow ourselves to be segregated against by feeding into the same destructive mentality.
    We should all start thinking as one body. Face to face, shoulder to shoulder, and back to back. We're all brothers here after all.


    This x 1000

    Very good point but some brothers/sister are too mean to even be consider as the same group.
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    Dec 25, 2012 9:10 PM GMT
    I think we need to drop the stupid labels

    "I now pronounce you gay married, you may now gay kiss."

    If we want to be equal, we need to act like we already are.
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    Dec 25, 2012 9:19 PM GMT
    Phoenyx saidI think we need to drop the stupid labels

    "I now pronounce you gay married, you may now gay kiss."

    If we want to be equal, we need to act like we already are.


    That's a good idea but not feasible,
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    Dec 25, 2012 11:08 PM GMT
    MashogaNubianPrince said
    Phoenyx saidI think we need to drop the stupid labels

    "I now pronounce you gay married, you may now gay kiss."

    If we want to be equal, we need to act like we already are.


    That's a good idea but not feasible,


    Agreed. Hard not to label yourself when everyone else does it.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Dec 25, 2012 11:41 PM GMT
    i know what you mean. ev'r time i'm all like i just be done banging this fine biatch, ya'll gotta be bringin' up how his wife is all unhappz about it. for realz.
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    Dec 25, 2012 11:50 PM GMT
    showme said
    MashogaNubianPrince said
    Phoenyx saidI think we need to drop the stupid labels

    "I now pronounce you gay married, you may now gay kiss."

    If we want to be equal, we need to act like we already are.


    That's a good idea but not feasible,


    Agreed. Hard not to label yourself when everyone else does it.


    And we all label ourselves. We are men or women. We are black or white. We are Christian or other. We are blue collar or white collar. We label ourselves because we want to express our identity. People who don't like or are afraid of labels have a problem telling people who they are because they don't know.
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    Dec 25, 2012 11:52 PM GMT
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    Dec 26, 2012 12:08 AM GMT
    MikeW saidBecause often someone is asking a question *as if* it ONLY applies to gay people. "Why are gay guys blablabla..." Well, often the answer is, they aren't any more so than any other demographic, so why put the question that way?

    In other words it is an expression of homophobia.

    QFT

    and especially on here it's internalized homophobia.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 26, 2012 2:00 AM GMT
    "Gay people are often too gay-centric and don't spend much time outside of their own group"

    "I think we need to drop the stupid labels

    "I now pronounce you gay married, you may now gay kiss."

    If we want to be equal, we need to act like we already are. "



    Agreed

  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Dec 26, 2012 2:12 AM GMT
    Oh for fuck sakes. I'm gay and I'm enveloped in straight culture. I listen to them talk about how dilated they were before each delivery because they are all hormonal and fucked up.

    sorry that was a rant.
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Dec 26, 2012 4:19 AM GMT
    DEKIRUMAN saidThis happens a lot, even on RJ.

    If someone brings up an issue that is especially relevant in the gay community, rather than engage the issue, some people just bring up that the issue also exists to some degree in the straight community. I don't really understand what argument they are trying to make.

    It's like saying

    "why don't gay people even pick up their dogs poops"

    only to hear

    "well some straight people don't pick up their dogs poop!"


    It's frustrating because if I'm gay, and I'm talking to another gay person, then I don't care what straight people are doing. I'm talking about us and how it impacts us. I remember as a child if I would do poorly on the assignment, I would come home and tell my mom that the WHOLE CLASS did poorly on that assignment. And she would say "the whole class isn't my kid, I want to know why YOU did poorly"

    Why can't we talk about our issues without having to validate our cultural pathologies by looking for instances where straight people falter too?

    because at the end of the day most problems are pretty similar whether you are straight or gay buddy.
  • LEANDRO_NJ

    Posts: 1114

    Dec 26, 2012 4:58 AM GMT
    As if we gay people don't exactly do the same things between ourselves! While it is true that gay people have and handle circumstances or situations differently from straight people; it doesn't mean other humans from all walks of life deals with the same issues! while most human beings are uniquely different it doesn't change the fact that as human at some point in our lives we ALL go through the same experiences, difficulties, challenges, prejudices, feelings, good or bad as the rest of the world do too. Are we normal? I don't know about you but I am sure as hell know I am!!

    Are you saying that the issues of being gay and straight is "Like comparing Apples to Oranges?" that may be true, but is it really? aren't both a fruit? different chemistry, taste, and texture makeup, YES!! nonethless they are both still classified as a fruit, right!! get it?