Speed Limits - Nevada to 85 mph?

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    Dec 26, 2012 6:42 AM GMT
    While looking up the dates for the Detroit Auto Show, I ran across this piece. I've long thought Michigan had some of the best drivers in the country with excellent lane discipline.

    The article seems to claim that according to sources within the Michigan State Police that 70 mph is often much too slow and dangerous. It's recommended that speed limits be set at the 85th or 90th percentile level which would be 75-85 MPH on most of rural MI interstates. I agree. I wish Ohio had such a progressive mindset.

    I noticed this last summer when heading from Woodward during Dream Cruise up to Flint for the Back to the Bricks event. Even when I was cruising at 100 mph, I sure wasn't exactly flying by folks. They were running 85-90 on average and the world didn't end.

    http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/should_michigan_up_its_70_mph.html
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    Dec 26, 2012 3:26 PM GMT
    I live here and I haven't heard a thing about it, Im not sure how I feel about the idea yet.icon_cool.gificon_smile.gif
  • rnch

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    Dec 26, 2012 3:30 PM GMT
    When one takes into consideration the the Interstate Highway System was designed for a safe crusing speed of 70 mph, in the 1950's, when tires, automotive brakes, chassis development and saftey equipment was nowhere as refined as we enjoy in today's cars, the speed limit increase seems (to me) like a "No Brainer" icon_exclaim.gif





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    Dec 26, 2012 3:32 PM GMT
    Even though the "slow" speeds in Minnesota drive me nuts, considering that Michigan has the same climate and has more snow (moreso in the UP than around Detroit) due to the lake effect than Minnesota does. As "progressive" as this sounds, I find this to be a really, really bad idea.
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    Dec 26, 2012 3:33 PM GMT
    lookinforcars1 saidI live here and I haven't heard a thing about it, Im not sure how I feel about the idea yet.icon_cool.gificon_smile.gif


    I noticed this during Dream Cruise week last summer while in a hurry to get to Flint for Back to the Bricks. Even cruising at 100 (in a 50 yr old Grand Prix) I wasn't hugely blowing by folks. Best, if you're going to have a speed limit at all, for it to set at the 90th percentile. Too slow is dangerous. I think 70 is dangerous if traffic flow is at 85.

    1:00 min mark

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    Dec 26, 2012 3:35 PM GMT
    Bullwinklemoos saidEven though the "slow" speeds in Minnesota drive me nuts, considering that Michigan has the same climate and has more snow (moreso in the UP than around Detroit) due to the lake effect than Minnesota does. As "progressive" as this sounds, I find this to be a really, really bad idea.


    Obviously, common sense needs to prevail if weather/traffic, etc. isn't ideal.
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    Dec 26, 2012 3:37 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Bullwinklemoos saidEven though the "slow" speeds in Minnesota drive me nuts, considering that Michigan has the same climate and has more snow (moreso in the UP than around Detroit) due to the lake effect than Minnesota does. As "progressive" as this sounds, I find this to be a really, really bad idea.


    Obviously, common sense needs to prevail if weather/traffic, etc. isn't ideal.


    I'll give you props, because you clearly trust more people with common sense than I do. icon_lol.gif
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    Dec 26, 2012 3:41 PM GMT
    rnch saidWhen one takes into consideration the the Interstate Highway System was designed for a safe crusing speed of 70 mph, in the 1950's, when tires, automotive brakes, chassis development and saftey equipment was nowhere as refined as we enjoy in today's cars, the speed limit increase seems (to me) like a "No Brainer" icon_exclaim.gif





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    You're also old like me so you probably remember this .... remember how many blow outs we used to have on the good old family vacation given tire technology from the 50s and 60s?

    Even the old iron drives immensely better with tires and shocks from today. True, I wouldn't want to hit an immoveable object such as a bridge abutment with the old Pontiac, but it gets down the road in fine fashion with fat bars, HD spring, Bilsteins and modern tires ... in this case Firestone Firehawks.
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    Dec 26, 2012 3:43 PM GMT
    Bullwinklemoos said
    freedomisntfree said
    Bullwinklemoos saidEven though the "slow" speeds in Minnesota drive me nuts, considering that Michigan has the same climate and has more snow (moreso in the UP than around Detroit) due to the lake effect than Minnesota does. As "progressive" as this sounds, I find this to be a really, really bad idea.


    Obviously, common sense needs to prevail if weather/traffic, etc. isn't ideal.


    I'll give you props, because you clearly trust more people with common sense than I do. icon_lol.gif


    And unlike most states, the same seems to apply from the prospective of the state police (article).


    "And guess what, Michigan? Your fellow motorists overwhelmingly are not obeying the 70 mph limit, at least on rural stretches of Michigan’s interstates.

    “On nearly every one, if not every one of our rural freeways in the state of Michigan, the 85th percentile speeds are nearly 75 to 85,” Megge said.

    Because of this, he added, law-abiding citizens might actually be more in danger than motorists driving five to 10 mph faster than the posted limit on rural freeways.

    “If you are driving 70 mph on a rural interstate, your chance of being involved in a crash is much greater than people driving at or near the 85th percentile speed,” Megge said."

    "“People who are driving closer to what is more like the 90th percentile speed, ... they tend to be driving at a speed that best matches the driving conditions, the driving environment, and they tend to be the safest drivers,” Megge said.

    “The myth out there that a speed limit actually controls travel speeds is exactly that. It’s a myth,” he added. “The driving environment is what dictates how fast a vast majority of the speed folks drive.”
    "
  • calibro

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    Dec 26, 2012 3:53 PM GMT
    you're completely missing the point. the reason 70 mph isn't say is because most drivers are speeding, so safe drivers who follow the speed limit are put in danger. your reckless 100 mph driving is disgusting.
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    Dec 26, 2012 3:56 PM GMT
    calibro saidyou're completely missing the point. the reason 70 mph isn't say is because most drivers are speeding, so safe drivers who follow the speed limit are put in danger. your reckless 100 mph driving is disgusting.


    Spoken like a true leftie.

    Not missing the point at all. Safest drivers at the least risk are the ones at appx. the 90th percentile, which in the case of MI's interstates, is about 75 to 85 mph. Obviously, a few in the MI State Police agree with me.

    Don't ask me, ask an expert.

    "“If you are driving 70 mph on a rural interstate, your chance of being involved in a crash is much greater than people driving at or near the 85th percentile speed,” Megge said."

    "“People who are driving closer to what is more like the 90th percentile speed, ... they tend to be driving at a speed that best matches the driving conditions, the driving environment, and they tend to be the safest drivers,” Megge said."
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    Dec 26, 2012 4:17 PM GMT
    What is truly dangerous and probably the biggest single cause of road rage, which many of you Angelinos love to do, is get on an Interstate and make a bee-line for the #1 lane and sit there at the speed limit and traffic piles up for miles behind you (I-15 to Vegas is a good example). And yes I know that many times in LA we need all lanes just for traffic flow. This is not the condition I'm talking about. Left lane hogs make for very angry drivers and hugely unsafe lane changes and generally at the front of the line will be a Prius.

    Michigan has probably best lane discipline in the country. Let traffic flow at its 'natural' speed and you greatly reduce this problem.
  • rnch

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    Dec 26, 2012 4:17 PM GMT
    I've witnessed wayyyyy too many Interstate road "almost-accidents" that were brought on by Left Lane Bandits cruising at 10, 15, 20 miles per hour slower than the prevailing traffic flow, hogging the middle or left lanes, oblivious (or intolerant) to the people tailgating them or switching lanes abruptly to get out of the way of these all-too-slow driving fools.




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    Dec 26, 2012 4:40 PM GMT
    rnch saidI've witnessed wayyyyy too many Interstate road "almost-accidents" that were brought on by Left Lane Bandits cruising at 10, 15, 20 miles per hour slower than the prevailing traffic flow, hogging the middle or left lanes, oblivious (or intolerant) to the people tailgating them or switching lanes abruptly to get out of the way of these all-too-slow driving fools.

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    I have a very good LA friend of mine that while going to the LEED convention in Phoenix a few years back, and driving my car when I got sleepy did this, and argued like crazy that as long as he was at the speed limit or below, he could drive in any lane that he wished. Of course he picked the #1 lane the moment he got on the freeway. There was, however, about a mile of traffic backed up behind and folks doing really crazy things to pass. Of course there was about a mile of empty roadway directly in front of us. Folks who were finally able to pass him on the right were flipping him off, weaving in front of us and doing a 'brake check', blowing horns, etc. It was dangerous enough that I made him pull over and I drove the rest of the way and never used the #1 lane unless passing.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Dec 26, 2012 5:08 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    calibro saidyou're completely missing the point. the reason 70 mph isn't say is because most drivers are speeding, so safe drivers who follow the speed limit are put in danger. your reckless 100 mph driving is disgusting.


    Spoken like a true leftie.

    Not missing the point at all. Safest drivers at the least risk are the ones at appx. the 90th percentile, which in the case of MI's interstates, is about 75 to 85 mph. Obviously, a few in the MI State Police agree with me.

    Don't ask me, ask an expert.

    "“If you are driving 70 mph on a rural interstate, your chance of being involved in a crash is much greater than people driving at or near the 85th percentile speed,” Megge said."

    "“People who are driving closer to what is more like the 90th percentile speed, ... they tend to be driving at a speed that best matches the driving conditions, the driving environment, and they tend to be the safest drivers,” Megge said."


    you're not getting it... the speed limit isn't the problem. it's the people who drive over the speed limit who make it unsafe for those going the speed limit. raising the speed limit won't fix the problem because people will just go faster. it will merely shift that going 80mph is now unsafe because everyone drives at 90. it's the same logic with guns. why don't we just give everyone guns to stamp out gun violence. it's worked really well.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Dec 26, 2012 5:23 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]calibro said... the speed limit isn't the problem. it's the people who drive under the speed limit who make it unsafe for those going the speed limit.... [/quote]



    Corrected for "Real World" driving conditions icon_exclaim.gif



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  • coolbna

    Posts: 14

    Dec 26, 2012 5:31 PM GMT
    Yea 80 will make it safer. I've noticed most people crushing speed seems to be 80mph.

    It's an optimal speed for modern day roads and cars.
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    Dec 26, 2012 5:33 PM GMT
    calibro said
    freedomisntfree said
    calibro saidyou're completely missing the point. the reason 70 mph isn't say is because most drivers are speeding, so safe drivers who follow the speed limit are put in danger. your reckless 100 mph driving is disgusting.


    Spoken like a true leftie.

    Not missing the point at all. Safest drivers at the least risk are the ones at appx. the 90th percentile, which in the case of MI's interstates, is about 75 to 85 mph. Obviously, a few in the MI State Police agree with me.

    Don't ask me, ask an expert.

    "“If you are driving 70 mph on a rural interstate, your chance of being involved in a crash is much greater than people driving at or near the 85th percentile speed,” Megge said."

    "“People who are driving closer to what is more like the 90th percentile speed, ... they tend to be driving at a speed that best matches the driving conditions, the driving environment, and they tend to be the safest drivers,” Megge said."


    you're not getting it... the speed limit isn't the problem. it's the people who drive over the speed limit who make it unsafe for those going the speed limit. raising the speed limit won't fix the problem because people will just go faster. it will merely shift that going 80mph is now unsafe because everyone drives at 90. it's the same logic with guns. why don't we just give everyone guns to stamp out gun violence. it's worked really well.


    NO, its actually YOU who doesn't get it. Absolute BULLSHIT. Proven false too (Utah is one good example). Vast vast majority of folks don't drive at speeds to scare themselves silly. You can set the speed limit at 100 and that doesn't mean that folks will drive 110. Set the speed limit at the 90th percentile for the safest speeds, silly. Even the Michigan State Police disagrees with you.

    Better yet, get your Prius out of the left lane and let the rest of us worry about it. And better yet, get out of LA. Try that left lane shit in Michigan and see what happens.
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    Dec 26, 2012 5:40 PM GMT
    coolbna saidYea 80 will make it safer. I've noticed most people crushing speed seems to be 80mph.

    It's an optimal speed for modern day roads and cars.


    If the 85th or 90th percentile speed is 90 mph on rural interstates then so be it. If its 70 MPH then fine. The drivers can and will decide.

    The vast majority of drivers will drive at what they consider a safe speed for conditions. Whatever that rate of speed is the safest speed. If it's snowing like it today, then maybe the reasonable speed is 25

    Sections of the German Autobahn are still unlimited, but does that mean that everyone drives at their car's top speed ... of course not.
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    Dec 26, 2012 5:55 PM GMT
    If only the bigger, safer cars could get decent gas mileage at 70-80-90 mph . . . .

    There are lots of straight roads in the West with little traffic that could use MUCH higher speed limits.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Dec 26, 2012 5:56 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    calibro said
    freedomisntfree said
    calibro saidyou're completely missing the point. the reason 70 mph isn't say is because most drivers are speeding, so safe drivers who follow the speed limit are put in danger. your reckless 100 mph driving is disgusting.


    Spoken like a true leftie.

    Not missing the point at all. Safest drivers at the least risk are the ones at appx. the 90th percentile, which in the case of MI's interstates, is about 75 to 85 mph. Obviously, a few in the MI State Police agree with me.

    Don't ask me, ask an expert.

    "“If you are driving 70 mph on a rural interstate, your chance of being involved in a crash is much greater than people driving at or near the 85th percentile speed,” Megge said."

    "“People who are driving closer to what is more like the 90th percentile speed, ... they tend to be driving at a speed that best matches the driving conditions, the driving environment, and they tend to be the safest drivers,” Megge said."


    you're not getting it... the speed limit isn't the problem. it's the people who drive over the speed limit who make it unsafe for those going the speed limit. raising the speed limit won't fix the problem because people will just go faster. it will merely shift that going 80mph is now unsafe because everyone drives at 90. it's the same logic with guns. why don't we just give everyone guns to stamp out gun violence. it's worked really well.


    NO, its actually YOU who doesn't get it. Absolute BULLSHIT. Proven false too (Utah is one good example). Vast vast majority of folks don't drive at speeds to scare themselves silly. You can set the speed limit at 100 and that doesn't mean that folks will drive 110. Set the speed limit at the 90th percentile for the safest speeds, silly. Even the Michigan State Police disagrees with you.

    Better yet, get your Prius out of the left lane and let the rest of us worry about it. And better yet, get out of LA. Try that left lane shit in Michigan and see what happens.


    which is why 12,545 deaths between 1995 and 2005 are attributed to increased speed limits? physics is against you. the faster a car goes, the shorter the response time is for defensive driving while the force of impact increases.
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    Dec 26, 2012 6:00 PM GMT
    calibro said
    freedomisntfree said
    calibro said
    freedomisntfree said
    calibro saidyou're completely missing the point. the reason 70 mph isn't say is because most drivers are speeding, so safe drivers who follow the speed limit are put in danger. your reckless 100 mph driving is disgusting.


    Spoken like a true leftie.

    Not missing the point at all. Safest drivers at the least risk are the ones at appx. the 90th percentile, which in the case of MI's interstates, is about 75 to 85 mph. Obviously, a few in the MI State Police agree with me.

    Don't ask me, ask an expert.

    "“If you are driving 70 mph on a rural interstate, your chance of being involved in a crash is much greater than people driving at or near the 85th percentile speed,” Megge said."

    "“People who are driving closer to what is more like the 90th percentile speed, ... they tend to be driving at a speed that best matches the driving conditions, the driving environment, and they tend to be the safest drivers,” Megge said."


    you're not getting it... the speed limit isn't the problem. it's the people who drive over the speed limit who make it unsafe for those going the speed limit. raising the speed limit won't fix the problem because people will just go faster. it will merely shift that going 80mph is now unsafe because everyone drives at 90. it's the same logic with guns. why don't we just give everyone guns to stamp out gun violence. it's worked really well.


    NO, its actually YOU who doesn't get it. Absolute BULLSHIT. Proven false too (Utah is one good example). Vast vast majority of folks don't drive at speeds to scare themselves silly. You can set the speed limit at 100 and that doesn't mean that folks will drive 110. Set the speed limit at the 90th percentile for the safest speeds, silly. Even the Michigan State Police disagrees with you.

    Better yet, get your Prius out of the left lane and let the rest of us worry about it. And better yet, get out of LA. Try that left lane shit in Michigan and see what happens.


    which is why 12,545 deaths between 1995 and 2005 are attributed to increased speed limits? physics is against you. the faster a car goes, the shorter the response time is for defensive driving while the force of impact increases.


    Bullshit. Then lets set the speed limit at 5 mph then. What determines safe speed? I say 85th or 90th percentile just like most traffic experts. Since you spent, I assume, considerable time in Cali, read VC 40802 and 40803. Radar use is forbidden unless traffic survey shows that speeds are set at 85th percentile and rounded UP to the nearest 5mph

    Montana's accident and fatality rate actually went up when the numerical speed limit of 75 was put in place versus the 'reasonable and proper' daytime limit they had in place for several years after the repeal of the NMSL. Prior to 1974 Montana also had 'reasonable and proper' as the daytime limit along with Nevada during all hours. We got along just fine.
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    Dec 26, 2012 6:02 PM GMT
    Puppenjunge saidIf only the bigger, safer cars could get decent gas mileage at 70-80-90 mph . . . .

    There are lots of straight roads in the West with little traffic that could use MUCH higher speed limits.


    Now true, there is a gas mileage issue when you're pushing exponentially more air out of the way at higher speeds. However, given how folks drive when speed limits are set too low, combined with a few left lane bandits, that's pretty easy to overcome.
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    Dec 26, 2012 6:08 PM GMT
    http://money.msn.com/auto-insurance/why-speed-limits-are-rising.aspx

    http://www.motorists.org/press/safe-to-raise-freeway-speed-limits
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Dec 26, 2012 6:16 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    calibro said
    freedomisntfree said
    calibro said
    freedomisntfree said
    calibro saidyou're completely missing the point. the reason 70 mph isn't say is because most drivers are speeding, so safe drivers who follow the speed limit are put in danger. your reckless 100 mph driving is disgusting.


    Spoken like a true leftie.

    Not missing the point at all. Safest drivers at the least risk are the ones at appx. the 90th percentile, which in the case of MI's interstates, is about 75 to 85 mph. Obviously, a few in the MI State Police agree with me.

    Don't ask me, ask an expert.

    "“If you are driving 70 mph on a rural interstate, your chance of being involved in a crash is much greater than people driving at or near the 85th percentile speed,” Megge said."

    "“People who are driving closer to what is more like the 90th percentile speed, ... they tend to be driving at a speed that best matches the driving conditions, the driving environment, and they tend to be the safest drivers,” Megge said."


    you're not getting it... the speed limit isn't the problem. it's the people who drive over the speed limit who make it unsafe for those going the speed limit. raising the speed limit won't fix the problem because people will just go faster. it will merely shift that going 80mph is now unsafe because everyone drives at 90. it's the same logic with guns. why don't we just give everyone guns to stamp out gun violence. it's worked really well.


    NO, its actually YOU who doesn't get it. Absolute BULLSHIT. Proven false too (Utah is one good example). Vast vast majority of folks don't drive at speeds to scare themselves silly. You can set the speed limit at 100 and that doesn't mean that folks will drive 110. Set the speed limit at the 90th percentile for the safest speeds, silly. Even the Michigan State Police disagrees with you.

    Better yet, get your Prius out of the left lane and let the rest of us worry about it. And better yet, get out of LA. Try that left lane shit in Michigan and see what happens.


    which is why 12,545 deaths between 1995 and 2005 are attributed to increased speed limits? physics is against you. the faster a car goes, the shorter the response time is for defensive driving while the force of impact increases.


    Bullshit. Then lets set the speed limit at 5 mph then. What determines safe speed? I say 85th or 90th percentile just like most traffic experts. Since you spent, I assume, considerable time in Cali, read VC 40803. Radar use is forbidden unless traffic survey shows that speeds are set at 85th percentile and rounded UP to the nearest 5mph

    Montana's accident and fatality rate actually went up when the numerical speed limit of 75 was put in place versus the 'reasonable and proper' daytime limit they had in place for several years after the repeal of the NMSL. Prior to 1974 Montana also had 'reasonable and proper' as the daytime limit along with Nevada during all hours. We got along just fine.


    i lived in montana. that's not true. montana's reasonable and proper limit existed in the 90s. accidents didn't double. see for yourself. and for the record, montanans have the highest death rate for motor vehicle accidents because of their constant speeding and drinking. it's not a coincidence montana has one of the highest two-lane highway speeds.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:HmOumyOuXBUJ:www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1103.pdf+&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiE6vVPPAAbkTwsiT-8IAhqJuxLJDWfaHp8vHkizQj5z33F3PXf8HPeV5UdvFMKKnLnIpRyBZWdnRz6m6UYofYnY-O7X8jaffJBsVrxp7pKlI4X38uPGKojO9IbnV57M-t5wkpf&sig=AHIEtbTtDnesm-fcqOPIb9VLBuxuKEGY8g