UPDATE: Are we dating? Or are we just doing stuff together?

  • Lunastar

    Posts: 328

    Dec 31, 2012 4:19 AM GMT
    Alright RJ, so this is where it gets a little personal with me. Beware this is also a LONG post.

    So I've been out really for about a year to a year and a half now. I've gone on only about 4-5 dates and none of them lasted past the first time. Tired of the back and forth messaging on OkCupid I decided to.....this is where it gets judgy so don't all harp on me at once. I decided to give Grindr a try. Honestly I had no expectations using it: hookup, dating, chatting, whatever.

    So there was this guy who I thought was quite attractive who just had in his blurb "Looking for a nice guy". I started out with my usual chatty self without being sexual, he said he liked my pic and we went back and forth. We eventually set up a date for the day after Christmas (26th). However it was the 22nd when both of us we're bored and realized we didn't live too far from each other, and so we met and walked and chatted for a good three hours in the area.

    Over the next couple days we had holiday plans but sent each other holiday texts.

    Our date in NYC was lovely. 11:30am we took a bus in and then walked for 2 miles before arriving at our lunch destination, a nice vegan/vegetarian place. On the way back was extremely cold windy and snowy , the same 2 miles back but we stopped at Rockefeller Center on the way back and he particularly loved it since he hadn't seen snow in 10 years. It made for a very sweet touch and it ended around 5pm. But during the whole date, lunch included, we were talking back and forth. Whether on the bus, walking or eating. The departure was a nice warm embracing hug ( I got off an earlier stop and we were in public).

    And finally today we went ice skating over by the waterfront and had lunch, only from 11:30 to 2:30 since we both had new years plans with families. Also another nice embracing hug. However I was hoping for a kiss, but then again that's partly my fault since I didn't lean for it.

    Now it might seem perfect from the way I just described. But I don't know if the level physical affection should be upped by now? We haven't acknowledged that we're dating. I mean how many dates does it take anyway to say that? Whenever he got a call he would say he was with a "friend", this is also because he's not out to his family yet (comes from a part Egyptian background). He would give a look that insinuated he didn't actually mean the word when he said it.

    Warning signs:
    -He's told me he's has trust issues.
    - I still checked Grindr (haven't chatted with anyone since our 2nd date though). But I still check it to see if he's online and sure enough he's online sometimes. By the same logic he could be checking only to see I'm on as well. This hasn't been brought up yet.
    - He sometimes takes a long time to reply to texts. Not in the sense that a conversation will completely stop, only to recontinue later on, but in the sense that if its not really clear if he should reply or not, often he won't reply until much later. As in text sent that afternoon and doesn't reply until later that night.
    - When I suggested meeting again after new years, we both have similar gaming interests and he said he wouldn't want me over while he has family (cousins over) because they would sense that we're not "established friends" yet. That wording has been bugging me a bit. We're not established but if I was just a friend, regardless of how far into us knowing each other, he'd invite me anyway?

    Good:
    - Whenever we do hangout, we have long quality conversations and stand close to each other, and I certainly find him attractive. He said he liked my pic in the very beginning, but he hasn't said anything in person. Then again I've only said how he looked "cute" one time in a beanie he wore which he smiled+light chuckled off.
    - He's always been up hanging out and making plans for another time. He was the one who suggested ice skating while I planned the lunch place for NYC. And next time it seems like he's coming over to my place (no one at my house after new years).
    - If he felt like were just meant to be friends, he would've said something already. Normally I feel this is said early to avoid awkwardness. But then again I could be wrong.
    - We're both scorpios, don't know if this means shit lol.

    I'm partly afraid to bring up these points with him because I don't want to be disappointed or try to rush things by bringing anything up too early. And I might seem as clingy or obsessive by bringing up the Grindr thing. But really I haven't in the sense that I've played it cool and haven't alluded to his delays in texting. He always apologizes so I think its just a habit rather than one of disinterest.

    So there you have it. My concerns are essentially, are we in midst of a healthy start to a potential relationship? Is this just a friendship that I've been oblivious to? What are some tips for me? Am I being too passive? Should I just be upfront? What should I bring up, if anything?

    Sorry if you all were looking for a graphic sex story icon_twisted.gif, but I appreciate all feedback and replies. And feel free to ask any additional info that you feel is crucial!







  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2012 4:25 AM GMT
    You're obsessing. Stop it. Stop it right now. You're thinking too much about it and THAT will destroy it by your own craziness. I've done it enough times to know that you're at that stage where the crazy starts to come out.

    You just have to roll with it. Don't harp on what you're doing. Just enjoy each others company. Don't think about dating. Don't think about how much you like him. He's your friend that could possibly be more. I know it's easier said then done but take a breath. He's just a guy. Chill out and roll with the punches.

    I can explain the text messages: I do that. I do it on purpose so I don't come off that I'm sitting right next to my phone. Sad I know. I do it here too with my messages. That isn't to say that he isn't looking to see whats still out there but you guys aren't dating so it's fair game.
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    Dec 31, 2012 5:56 AM GMT
    The joys of the aching self-will: Obsessions will lead to compulsion.

    Analogy: I can leave my house and think/worry endlessly about whether or not I locked the front door when I've been locking the front door naturally for decades. That's the obsession. Since I can't control it from afar, I will turn around just to check that I did indeed lock it. Now I feel secure. That's the compulsion.

    In relationships I can wait anxiously and endlessly by my phone knowing that he's received the message and will naturally respond when he has time, or I can search to find everything I can find out about him and how he spends his time-- without me. That's the obsession. Since I can't control when he responds, I can manipulate him into responding by sending another message and another, or I can bring up information and questions about him that's none of my business. Now I feel secure. That's the compulsion, and that will drive any healthy person away.

    IceBuckets said it: Stop obsessing.... or fingers-crossed he's unhealthy and loves that behavior.

    Thinking that our behaviors are only present in one facet of our lives is called denial. These behaviors (like obsessing) are what makes our character. In this case, it is un-fun, unhealthy, and torturous. Only you can make the decision to set yourself free starting at the bottom and working you're way up.
  • PR_GMR

    Posts: 3831

    Dec 31, 2012 2:57 PM GMT
    IceBuckets saidYou're obsessing. Stop it. Stop it right now. You're thinking too much about it and THAT will destroy it by your own craziness. I've done it enough times to know that you're at that stage where the crazy starts to come out.

    You just have to roll with it.


    This x100. As someone who did just as Ice Buckets posted (my crazyness came out when a connection didn't want a relationship), please don't ruin the connection by over-thinking things, over-chasing, or even obsessing about exclusivity. Just roll with it. Let him text you and seek you out.Don't stop meeting others. Stay busy and spend time with friends and family. If he fades away, so be it.. but do not let it consume you. Don't chase!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2012 3:04 PM GMT
    When I was dating my ex, after a few weeks, I did ask him point blank, "So what are we?"

    He later said that was one of the happiest moments in the relationship. He answered, "Boyfriends, of course."

    I agree with the other guys. You shouldn't over-think it. But there's no harm in making things clear. You might be surprised.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2012 3:13 PM GMT
    huhwhat saidWhen I was dating my ex, after a few weeks, I did ask him point blank, "So what are we?"

    He later said that was one of the happiest moments in the relationship. He answered, "Boyfriends, of course."

    I agree with the other guys. You shouldn't over-think it. But there's no harm in making things clear. You might be surprised.
    Yep. Worry less about him and focus more on what you are looking for right now. If he fits in your life, ask him straight up.

    Can't expect to get what you want if you aren't willing to put it out there. icon_wink.gif
  • turtleneckjoc...

    Posts: 4685

    Dec 31, 2012 3:14 PM GMT
    Good advice from above and for the most part, this actually happened to me with a guy I met a few days after Thanksgiving. We got together a couple of times and we departed with a hug, but I took it up a notch and gave him an innocent peck-like kiss on his cheek.

    Then after Christmas, I received an e-mail from him saying he met someone else and it could be a deep, long-lasting relationship for him. He wants to be "friends," but we know how that goes.....

    Since the dumping via e-mail thing didn't provide me with the closure I wanted, I called him and after some pleasantries, we got around to the breakup. He said our times together were "awkward."

    Lunastar, like you I wanted to raise the level of the whole relationship to something more than a hug. Apparently what I did with the cheek kiss was taboo (even though we held hands while watching a movie). One never knows when to kiss/not kiss, have sex/not have sex. I suppose every one is different and I hope your budding relationship doesn't go the way mine did.
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    Dec 31, 2012 3:21 PM GMT
    I'm confused: so you have basically told the OP not to do any chasing. Now imagine if his intended is told the very same thing by his friends. How the hell then do either of them figure out of the other is interested or not?
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    Dec 31, 2012 3:28 PM GMT
  • Tread

    Posts: 39

    Dec 31, 2012 3:33 PM GMT
    Next time you see him, I think you need to try and put your hand on his leg, or let your chin slightly touch his when you go in for a hug. If he does not pull away and you can feel a good vibe coming from him.. then I would go in for a kiss at that moment or later on during your 'date'.

    In my experience if you date more than three times and there is no more physical contact than a hug, then you will most likely just stay friends.

  • PR_GMR

    Posts: 3831

    Dec 31, 2012 3:34 PM GMT
    Blondizgd saidI'm confused: so you have basically told the OP not to do any chasing. Now imagine if his intended is told the very same thing by his friends. How the hell then do either of them figure out of the other is interested or not?


    Good point. Someone has to do the chasing. The problem is that it's a slippery slope. If he texts him or calls him more than once a day.. hell, more than once every three days or a week.. the other person will see it as over-chasing. And then it's game over.

    Best he could do is say 'I'm interested' and see if the other party musters a response. Learn to live with whatever result that occurs. Best of luck to the OP.
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    Dec 31, 2012 3:39 PM GMT
    You are getting to know each other. It has been 5 days since your date. If you are at this place already, the likelihood of having a healthy, non-neurotic relationship is slim. Take some time to figure out your personal needs (completely independent of him). And then start finding things to fill those needs outside of a boyfriend. Build up your strengths and have a short memory about the bad things. This is called...living.

    You will meet many guys like this guy where they are just a part of life. Some people will be in your life for a few days, others for a lot longer. When you start counting the minutes between texts and the days between dates before you have a true history together, it's like listening to a ticking clock in a quiet room. You're too young and too good looking to be listening to clocks tick man. You can do that when you're 80. Go meet other guys and keep in touch with this guy and fucking have fun with it. My advice anyways.
  • PR_GMR

    Posts: 3831

    Dec 31, 2012 3:42 PM GMT
    Myol saidYou are getting to know each other. It has been 5 days since your date. If you are at this place already, the likelihood of having a healthy, non-neurotic relationship is slim. Take some time to figure out your personal needs (completely independent of him). And then start finding things to fill those needs outside of a boyfriend. Build up your strengths and have a short memory about the bad things. This is called...living.

    You will meet many guys like this guy where they are just a part of life. Some people will be in your life for a few days, others for a lot longer. When you start counting the minutes between texts and the days between dates before you have a true history together, it's like listening to a ticking clock in a quiet room. You're too young and too good looking to be listening to clocks tick man. You can do that when you're 80. Go meet other guys and keep in touch with this guy and fucking have fun with it. My advice anyways.


    This is called.. true wisdom! Great post! icon_smile.gif
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    Dec 31, 2012 4:05 PM GMT
    Myol saidSome people will be in your life for a few days, others for a lot longer. When you start counting the minutes between texts and the days between dates before you have a true history together, it's like listening to a ticking clock in a quiet room. You're too young and too good looking to be listening to clocks tick man. You can do that when you're 80. Go meet other guys and keep in touch with this guy and fucking have fun with it. My advice anyways.

    I'm not quite sure what to take from that, but it almost has elements of poetry to it. LOL!

    But I have known guys for whom minutes were like hours to me, waiting for their calls or their e-mails, their knock on my door. When it gets to that point you know you're hooked.

    The question always is, of course, are THEY hooked on you? And that's the answer we never know, until they tell us, and show us themselves. I wish there was a place we could go to check, see the results on a chart or a report or online or something, to know for sure and right away. But there's not.

    But lacking that, I've been content just to spend some time with guys I liked, and be happy with that alone. Simple dating, a boyfriend, even a quick hookup, whatever, I ask myself was I happy doing that? And if I was that's enough satisfaction for me, and I can leave it at that.

    Will it go on to more? Maybe, maybe not. That's why when I was single I dated as much as I could - I was having a great time just doing it, and increasing my odds I'd find the keeper I was waiting for. I knew he wasn't going to come knocking on my door on his own, just because I was sitting inside all alone and praying for him. It really is true: God helps those who help themselves, and it's never more true than in gay dating.
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    Dec 31, 2012 4:13 PM GMT
    Blondizgd saidI'm confused: so you have basically told the OP not to do any chasing. Now imagine if his intended is told the very same thing by his friends. How the hell then do either of them figure out of the other is interested or not?


    icon_lol.gif Very good point.
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    Dec 31, 2012 4:20 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    Myol said[...]
    [...]
    But I have known guys for whom minutes were like hours to me, waiting for their calls or their e-mails, their knock on my door. When it gets to that point you know you're hooked.

    The question always is, of course, are THEY hooked on you? And that's the answer we never know, until they tell us, and show us themselves. I wish there was a place we could go to check, see the results on a chart or a report or online or something, to know for sure and right away. But there's not.

    But lacking that, I've been content just to spend some time with guys I liked, and be happy with that alone. Simple dating, a boyfriend, even a quick hookup, whatever, I ask myself was I happy doing that? And if I was that's enough satisfaction for me, and I can leave it at that.

    Will it go on to more? Maybe, maybe not. That's why when I was single I dated as much as I could - I was having a great time just doing it, and increasing my odds I'd find the keeper I was waiting for. I knew he wasn't going to come knocking on my door on his own, just because I was sitting inside all alone and praying for him. It really is true: God helps those who help themselves, and it's never more true than in gay dating.


    All of the above.
    Exactly. Wow.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2012 5:03 PM GMT
    Blondizgd saidI'm confused: so you have basically told the OP not to do any chasing. Now imagine if his intended is told the very same thing by his friends. How the hell then do either of them figure out of the other is interested or not?

    Then keep the playing field even. Don't text him EVERYDAY. Don't initiate every conversation. Maintain a healthy connection. Guys can sense the desperation you know.
  • turtleneckjoc...

    Posts: 4685

    Dec 31, 2012 5:07 PM GMT
    IceBuckets said
    Blondizgd saidI'm confused: so you have basically told the OP not to do any chasing. Now imagine if his intended is told the very same thing by his friends. How the hell then do either of them figure out of the other is interested or not?

    Then keep the playing field even. Don't text him EVERYDAY. Don't initiate every conversation. Maintain a healthy connection. Guys can sense the desperation you know.


    Good point, but please educate the uneducated here:

    If one (let's say it's me for argument sake) doesn't initiate the conversation and days go by without hearing from the guy, shouldn't that be the time to worry? I feel it's okay to at least initiate something daily or every other day, at the very least in order to maintain interest. I tend to lose people very easy if my "head isn't in the game" to use a sports metaphor.

    Thoughts? Ideas? Feedback?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2012 5:10 PM GMT
    turtleneckjock said
    IceBuckets said
    Blondizgd saidI'm confused: so you have basically told the OP not to do any chasing. Now imagine if his intended is told the very same thing by his friends. How the hell then do either of them figure out of the other is interested or not?

    Then keep the playing field even. Don't text him EVERYDAY. Don't initiate every conversation. Maintain a healthy connection. Guys can sense the desperation you know.


    Good point, but please educate the uneducated here:

    If one (let's say it's me for argument sake) doesn't initiate the conversation and days go by without hearing from the guy, shouldn't that be the time to worry? I feel it's okay to at least initiate something daily or every other day, at the very least in order to maintain interest. I tend to lose people very easy if my "head isn't in the game" to use a sports metaphor.

    Thoughts? Ideas? Feedback?

    I can say if it were me and if that were me, it'd be a giant big flag that he isn't interested anyway so you're wasting your time. Guys don't really like it when I show any interest. It's why I don't hot/buddy list people initially or PM people initially.

    After a couple of days, close to a week even, I guess it's okay but you really have to be comfortable with the absence.
  • Import

    Posts: 7191

    Dec 31, 2012 5:16 PM GMT
    Myol saidYou are getting to know each other. It has been 5 days since your date. If you are at this place already, the likelihood of having a healthy, non-neurotic relationship is slim. Take some time to figure out your personal needs (completely independent of him). And then start finding things to fill those needs outside of a boyfriend. Build up your strengths and have a short memory about the bad things. This is called...living.

    You will meet many guys like this guy where they are just a part of life. Some people will be in your life for a few days, others for a lot longer. When you start counting the minutes between texts and the days between dates before you have a true history together, it's like listening to a ticking clock in a quiet room. You're too young and too good looking to be listening to clocks tick man. You can do that when you're 80. Go meet other guys and keep in touch with this guy and fucking have fun with it. My advice anyways.


    I would "like" this if this were fb
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    Dec 31, 2012 5:40 PM GMT
    It's been about a week... and you're looking for a label already? Seriously...?

    And if you want to see if he's interested in you, make a move... Be the one that kisses him rather than waiting for it to happen. I'm sick of guys whining about how they don't know if the other guy is interested when they do nothing to find out. That's when a stalemate happens.

    You're scared, I get it. But the answers to your "guy problems" are trivial and kind of self explanatory.
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    Dec 31, 2012 7:04 PM GMT
    turtleneckjock said
    IceBuckets said
    Blondizgd saidI'm confused: so you have basically told the OP not to do any chasing. Now imagine if his intended is told the very same thing by his friends. How the hell then do either of them figure out of the other is interested or not?

    Then keep the playing field even. Don't text him EVERYDAY. Don't initiate every conversation. Maintain a healthy connection. Guys can sense the desperation you know.


    Good point, but please educate the uneducated here:

    If one (let's say it's me for argument sake) doesn't initiate the conversation and days go by without hearing from the guy, shouldn't that be the time to worry? I feel it's okay to at least initiate something daily or every other day, at the very least in order to maintain interest. I tend to lose people very easy if my "head isn't in the game" to use a sports metaphor.

    Thoughts? Ideas? Feedback?
    I don't know the answer here turtle - I will say that any arrangement has to be reciprocal. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to do all the work in staying in touch.

    Everyone is busy, but we make time for what have our sights set on building in our lives.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 01, 2013 6:11 PM GMT
    turtleneckjock said
    IceBuckets said
    Blondizgd saidI'm confused: so you have basically told the OP not to do any chasing. Now imagine if his intended is told the very same thing by his friends. How the hell then do either of them figure out of the other is interested or not?

    Then keep the playing field even. Don't text him EVERYDAY. Don't initiate every conversation. Maintain a healthy connection. Guys can sense the desperation you know.


    Good point, but please educate the uneducated here:

    If one (let's say it's me for argument sake) doesn't initiate the conversation and days go by without hearing from the guy, shouldn't that be the time to worry? I feel it's okay to at least initiate something daily or every other day, at the very least in order to maintain interest. I tend to lose people very easy if my "head isn't in the game" to use a sports metaphor.

    Thoughts? Ideas? Feedback?


    58 years old and you haven't got a clue. Astounding!

    Here's a hint: People don't like being around you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 01, 2013 6:23 PM GMT
    You're being too clingy and that's going to mess up anything you might be able to have with the guy. Put it in lower gears and ask him what he's looking for.
  • hanzo83

    Posts: 457

    Jan 01, 2013 6:46 PM GMT
    I think the best thing to do is just ask him what the two of you are thus far. If you like him and you think you want to be with him then tell him so.