Tasers for all teachers

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    Jan 03, 2013 1:06 AM GMT
    http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/17549650/lawmaker-says-give-tasers-to-teachers

    Maybe a bad joke for Australians, but a real option for the gun-prevalent US. There you have it: a quick, non-lethal way to stun a would-be assailant.
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    Jan 03, 2013 1:11 AM GMT
    Future headline:

    Student Steals Teacher's Taser; Puts Fellow Student in Hospital.
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    Jan 03, 2013 1:14 AM GMT
    SkinnyBitch saidFuture headline:

    Student Steals Teacher's Taser, Puts Fellow Student in Hospital.


    Yeah, we need biometric tasers. icon_lol.gif
  • BardBear

    Posts: 533

    Jan 03, 2013 5:42 AM GMT
    Being that I'm a teacher? No. Just plain no.

    Peace,
    Bardy
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    Jan 03, 2013 6:11 AM GMT
    Curing an old problem by replacing more new problems. I think it hard to resist the temptation to threaten people, including pupils, with tasers and are we showing kids to resolve violence with more violence? Im very happy to not worry about this in Australia.
  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Jan 03, 2013 6:34 AM GMT
    BardBear saidBeing that I'm a teacher? No. Just plain no.

    Peace,
    Bardy


    Seconded.
  • Suetonius

    Posts: 1842

    Jan 03, 2013 6:50 AM GMT
    Taser vs gun: Gun wins.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jan 04, 2013 2:30 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidhttp://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/17549650/lawmaker-says-give-tasers-to-teachers

    Maybe a bad joke for Australians, but a real option for the gun-prevalent US. There you have it: a quick, non-lethal way to stun a would-be assailant.




    ...while he's firing an assault weapon at you ?
    I don't think so.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Jan 04, 2013 2:32 AM GMT
    I would not send my child to a school with armed teachers, even if it were only a taser.
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    Jan 04, 2013 2:33 AM GMT
    SkinnyBitch saidFuture headline:

    Student Steals Teacher's Taser; Puts Fellow Student in Hospital.
    Past headline: Criminal steals cop's gun; puts innocent bystanders six feet under.
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    Jan 04, 2013 3:37 AM GMT
    ozcomrade saidCuring an old problem by replacing more new problems. I think it hard to resist the temptation to threaten people, including pupils, with tasers and are we showing kids to resolve violence with more violence? Im very happy to not worry about this in Australia.


    I agree with you, but if I had to choose between tasers or guns for teachers, the former is better. 15 states have started gun training programs for teachers already, or rather, teachers from 15 states have joined a program to learn how to shoot...and it's only a matter of time before actual guns will be put in classrooms in the Republican dominated states like Ohio.

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/02/1384531/armed-teacher-training-program/
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    Jan 04, 2013 3:45 AM GMT
    These would also add visual gravitas to encourage compliance in the classroom.


    As we can see, the young man was visibly moved by the device and would probably think twice about misbehaving around a teacher who walked the room brandishing one of these. At the beginning of the semester (and at certain periodic intervals), a "demonstration" could be held in a school auditorium. This would not only showcase the power of the device, but also the teachers' willingness to keep order.

    I doubt there will be many who misbehave, and those could be dispatched away quickly after public treatment with the device.

    icon_lol.gif

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    Jan 04, 2013 8:05 AM GMT
    I don't see evidence that this is going to be effective, and moreover it seriously degrades education.

    Educational spaces---if they are effective ones---are places where we may confront ideas that deeply conflict with our sincerely-held beliefs. We may change those opinions, or we may not, but we cannot be nearly as free to confront controversy when weapons are in the room.

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    Jan 04, 2013 12:03 PM GMT
    TigerTim saidI don't see evidence that this is going to be effective, and moreover it seriously degrades education.

    Educational spaces---if they are effective ones---are places where we may confront ideas that deeply conflict with our sincerely-held beliefs. We may change those opinions, or we may not, but we cannot be nearly as free to confront controversy when weapons are in the room.



    I wish everybody saw it that way. But since we don't live in a reasonable world, and guns being as cheap and deadly as they are and are likely to be introduced further onto school properties by current authorities, we should favor non lethal methods such as tasers and mace.

    It does need to be a presence that's there all the time. The fire extinguishers are not even given a second thought until there is a fire.
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    Jan 04, 2013 1:10 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    TigerTim saidI don't see evidence that this is going to be effective, and moreover it seriously degrades education.

    Educational spaces---if they are effective ones---are places where we may confront ideas that deeply conflict with our sincerely-held beliefs. We may change those opinions, or we may not, but we cannot be nearly as free to confront controversy when weapons are in the room.



    I wish everybody saw it that way. But since we don't live in a reasonable world, and guns being as cheap and deadly as they are and are likely to be introduced further onto school properties by current authorities, we should favor non lethal methods such as tasers and mace.

    It does need to be a presence that's there all the time. The fire extinguishers are not even given a second thought until there is a fire.


    I could never carry a taser in my own classroom, and I would not allow someone with a weapon in my classroom. I'm fairly sure that many of my colleagues feel the same.

    It's not the worst idea, I appreciate, but it has never been tested---what if it doesnt work? There are alternative strategies that have been shown to work; I'm much more in favor of those.

    And just for the record, I've been mugged at gunpoint now twice in the USA (in Cleveland and Chicago). Nothing about the experience would make me want to carry a gun or a taser.
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    Jan 04, 2013 2:47 PM GMT
    Tasers in the hands of non-trained teachers. We've seen how this has played out in the past. Hell, remember what happened with TRAINED army soldiers with GUNS during the shooting at Fort Hood? It's ridiculous to think that this will solve the problem.
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    Jan 04, 2013 5:24 PM GMT
    heytheredude saidTasers in the hands of non-trained teachers. We've seen how this has played out in the past. Hell, remember what happened with TRAINED army soldiers with GUNS during the shooting at Fort Hood? It's ridiculous to think that this will solve the problem.


    The Fort Hood shooting isn't really a good example. Except for MPs, none of the on-base soldiers were armed. This is generally true of all stateside military bases.
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    Jan 04, 2013 6:03 PM GMT
    Judging by the shit poor education system in America, most teachers deserve a daily tasering just for being such poor examples to their students.
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    Jan 04, 2013 6:22 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidIt does need to be a presence that's there all the time. The fire extinguishers are not even given a second thought until there is a fire.


    Have the children started spontaneously combusting?

    Stop gap measures can become de rigueur. What sort of world are we building? And in doing so, what matters more, the second thoughts or prior collective unconscious?

    Fire codes and fire fighting equipment make us feel safe as they are not aimed at humans. Housing against the elements makes us feel safe. A standing army can make you feel safe, but also doesn't it make you feel a little nervous--all those guns, what if they turn? Nukes can make a people feel very safe and at the same time can make the very same people feel very nervous.

    Does aiming high voltage or other weaponry at life give you a good feeling, even if proposed as protection? It gives me the creeps. It's like creating a localized arms race. How does that foster peace of mind, gun control, an inclination towards preemptive intervention? What does that do to our psyche, especially if we don't give it a second thought? I believe we need to think twice about this.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 04, 2013 8:21 PM GMT
    Un Otero Newspaper Headline

    Teacher Tases Students to Stop Fight in Cafeteria Parents Obtain Gloria Allred as Attorney

    Basically the Teachers to have guns in the classroom argument with training wheels
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    Jan 04, 2013 9:16 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    q1w2e3 saidIt does need to be a presence that's there all the time. The fire extinguishers are not even given a second thought until there is a fire.


    Have the children started spontaneously combusting?

    Stop gap measures can become de rigueur. What sort of world are we building? And in doing so, what matters more, the second thoughts or prior collective unconscious?

    Fire codes and fire fighting equipment make us feel safe as they are not aimed at humans. Housing against the elements makes us feel safe. A standing army can make you feel safe, but also doesn't it make you feel a little nervous--all those guns, what if they turn? Nukes can make a people feel very safe and at the same time can make the very same people feel very nervous.

    Does aiming high voltage or other weaponry at life give you a good feeling, even if proposed as protection? It gives me the creeps. It's like creating a localized arms race. How does that foster peace of mind, gun control, an inclination towards preemptive intervention? What does that do to our psyche, especially if we don't give it a second thought? I believe we need to think twice about this.


    No, it doesn't give me a good feeling. But I would feel much worse if it was a gun.

    It's the non-lethality that is appealing to my practical side. Rather than getting more guns in the classroom (and guess what, there are TWO bills introduced today in Congress to eliminate gun-free school zones), if one can point to something that is reasonably deterrent, it may just eliminate those potential guns in school.

    And no, I'm not saying untrained teachers should do it--tasers are weapons and should require training and certification as well.
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    Jan 04, 2013 10:32 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn said
    heytheredude saidTasers in the hands of non-trained teachers. We've seen how this has played out in the past. Hell, remember what happened with TRAINED army soldiers with GUNS during the shooting at Fort Hood? It's ridiculous to think that this will solve the problem.


    The Fort Hood shooting isn't really a good example. Except for MPs, none of the on-base soldiers were armed. This is generally true of all stateside military bases.


    Good point. With that said, it really is shocking that several instances of people trying to subdue the shooter has ended up in tragedy. I did make the mistake of misreading the details surrounding Fort Hood. However, it still stands that having guns or tasers in a classroom is not a good idea.

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    Jan 04, 2013 11:56 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    theantijock said
    q1w2e3 saidIt does need to be a presence that's there all the time. The fire extinguishers are not even given a second thought until there is a fire.


    Have the children started spontaneously combusting?

    Stop gap measures can become de rigueur. What sort of world are we building? And in doing so, what matters more, the second thoughts or prior collective unconscious?

    Fire codes and fire fighting equipment make us feel safe as they are not aimed at humans. Housing against the elements makes us feel safe. A standing army can make you feel safe, but also doesn't it make you feel a little nervous--all those guns, what if they turn? Nukes can make a people feel very safe and at the same time can make the very same people feel very nervous.

    Does aiming high voltage or other weaponry at life give you a good feeling, even if proposed as protection? It gives me the creeps. It's like creating a localized arms race. How does that foster peace of mind, gun control, an inclination towards preemptive intervention? What does that do to our psyche, especially if we don't give it a second thought? I believe we need to think twice about this.


    No, it doesn't give me a good feeling. But I would feel much worse if it was a gun.

    It's the non-lethality that is appealing to my practical side. Rather than getting more guns in the classroom (and guess what, there are TWO bills introduced today in Congress to eliminate gun-free school zones), if one can point to something that is reasonably deterrent, it may just eliminate those potential guns in school.

    And no, I'm not saying untrained teachers should do it--tasers are weapons and should require training and certification as well.


    Looking at the practical side of this, to potentially save the 20-40howevermany children per classroom who could be killed in just moments of a gunman going crazy, you'd have to arm every teacher in every classroom in every school in the country. And beyond what's normally considered practical though I consider it practical, what does that do to our psyche as a nation?

    There's just under 100,000 public schools in the country. Another 33,000 private schools, 5,000 degree granting schools and another 2,000 non degree'ers.

    There are 77,000,000 students, nursery school thru college, 27% of the population.

    55,000,000 students prek-12. Let's just look at those. Say there's 30 kids to a classroom. So you are proposing to introduce into our school system
    1,833,333 tasers. What could possibly go wrong with that? To my mind it is practically crazy.

    How many school shootings have there been to justify electrifying our teachers? Now here's something that certainly came as a surprise to me while I was just perusing this info. In regard to school shootings, per capita, Canada is more violent than we are.

    Let's look again at tasers after Canada gets them and while we're waiting maybe we should start looking more at what Europe is doing.

    Canada population of 35,000,000 has seen 7 school shootings since 1989 (1 for every 5 million residents)

    United States population of 315,000,000 had 40 shootings since 1989 (1 in every 7.8 million)

    Europe population of 740,000,000 has seen 16 since 1989 (1 in every 46 mil)

    References:
    http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=84
    http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/cb11-ff15.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
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    Jan 05, 2013 1:04 AM GMT
    theantijock said So you are proposing to introduce into our school system 1,833,333 tasers. What could possibly go wrong with that? To my mind it is practically crazy.


    Not as crazy as 1833333 guns. icon_sad.gif
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    Jan 05, 2013 1:28 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    theantijock said So you are proposing to introduce into our school system 1,833,333 tasers. What could possibly go wrong with that? To my mind it is practically crazy.


    Not as crazy as 1833333 guns. icon_sad.gif


    1,833,333 paper cranes

    paper_cranes_davidH-532x361.jpg