Loss Father 12/28/2012, Loss Minister of My Young Adulthood 12/30/2012

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    Jan 03, 2013 3:12 AM GMT
    My dad was 83.
    Dr. Caliandro (former senior minister after Norman Vincent Peale / Marble Collegiate Church) was 79.
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    Jan 03, 2013 3:48 AM GMT
    May God rest his soul.Our sympathy to you and your family.Ryan and Ruben
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    Jan 03, 2013 3:57 AM GMT
    Sorry for loses. One is hard enough but two must be tough. My prayers for you and your family. Hang in there.
  • RaggedyMan

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    Jan 03, 2013 9:11 AM GMT
    I'm sorry for your loss. Hope you're OK.
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    Jan 03, 2013 10:13 AM GMT
    Sorry for your loss (hug)
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    Jan 03, 2013 10:56 AM GMT
    Sorry for your loss you and yours are in my prayers
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    Jan 03, 2013 11:21 AM GMT
    Sorry for your loss. I'll keep you and your family in my prayers.
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    Jan 03, 2013 11:32 AM GMT
    Sorry about your father, mine died last year also. I used to listen to Arthur Caliandro on the radio until he retired. Good man. God Bless. icon_neutral.gif
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    Jan 03, 2013 1:36 PM GMT
    Thank you.

    I was speaking with one of my best friends at Marble Collegiate Church. I was a member there (in person) 1984-2008. From 1984 -2000, Dr. Caliandro was a major inspiration to my Christian life and worship through singing.

    I was listening to the community choir's Christmas Concert at Carnegie Hall (1999) - I didn't sing that concert but was there for another concert which wasn't made into a CD. Anyway, he would come on stage and say short words of encouragement to the audience and to the choir.
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    Jan 03, 2013 1:38 PM GMT
    astro_245gw_01_steven_no_201313.10845.43

    Sometimes, I think on life through Astrology. I'm a group leader who help others do the same with the aid of Dr. Jeffrey Thompson's BrainFiteness Kit.

    There are astrologers much more advanced than I am. So I wrote to them:

    Anguish: Loss Father 12/28, Loss Minister 12/30 (Read 31 times)

    My real father died 12/28/2012.
    And the minister who kept fatherly love in my life, through his sermons, while I was in New York and my dad was in New Orleans, died 12/30/2012.

    Is this Transiting Saturn opposing Natal Sun or is it more than that?


    ~ ~ ~

    Of the 31 times read, one astrologer spoke up and said

    Sorry to hear of your losses. I would think your Sun tsquare Neptune Saturn triggered by transit Saturn and also your Chiron return in the 8th house-Neptune rules your 8th house and being the Sun Neptune opposition straddles your 4th and 10th houses shows around family/parent/father.

    ~ ~ ~

    I wrote back

    Tranquil (I'm blessed),
    Thank you for the condolences.

    Given my Mercury in Taurus, I'm not the fastest-witted person in the world (despite being born in the year of the Tiger). I say that because now, with your help, I have to self-identify as a Sun-Neptune-Saturn T-Square individual. (I'm thinking the naming convention is: the opposition is mentioned first (north to south and east to west followed by the square counter-clockwise from the bottom of the opposition).

    I want to know, as I self-examine/self-diagnose, I should examine what happens to my T-Square. I would think obviously so, since I understand people with planets on angles should realize the significance of planets on angles as well as transits across angles.

    Okay, I have a Saturn transit not only at the IC and at Neptune, that same transit is triggering/energizing the entire T-Square?

    I truly need a coloring book of my natal chart. The planets could be a color legend. Neptune would be colored heavenly orange and my eighth house wedge would be colored heavenly orange. Taurus-Mercury is such a still bull feeding in a large field.

    I'll come back to this later in the day.

    ~ ~ ~

    Well, I'm trying to collect all the Peace I can to face seeing my dad's body for the last time on Saturday before he's interred. Our place in a mausoleum is in the New Orleans area. Big community grief is different from the peace I can have on my own. I won't be able or would want to stop the disturbance of peace. People must grieve well for their hearts, minds, the loss to the community against memories of one who served the community well.
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    Jan 03, 2013 3:16 PM GMT
    My condolences. Also lost my Dad this year [at 98], gradually losing the last of his generation icon_sad.gif
  • TonyD

    Posts: 168

    Jan 03, 2013 3:39 PM GMT
    My condolences
    Good for you in finding an avenue to express yourself.
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    Jan 04, 2013 3:36 AM GMT
    Well,

    I say astrological delineations/explanations are like opening one's Book of Life in the heaven of the Afterlife.

    So, here is more on that approach.

    Tranquil says
    Sun tsquare Neptune Saturn triggered by transit Saturn


    My Response:
    Liz Greene identified in my Long Term Perspectives Report:

    Saturn conjunction IC
    You may experience some loss or separation during this time...You may...find that you have gone as far as you can in a particular direction and now need something new to which you can commit yourself. This may be part of a gradual relinquishing of the past; and although any such separation or change may cause you pain, grief or anxiety, you may need to recognise that the timing is somehow deeply appropriate and the experience necessary.

    Feelings of depression may be necessary and appropriate for such a rite of passage.

    Saturn square Saturn

    ...based on an increasing sense of self-sufficiency...

    You may experience a strong sense of separateness, and this could leave you feeling lonely and isolated.

    This is also a time when you may experience a kind of psychological separation from your family background.

    You may have to define who you are even if it means severing the unconscious fusion or identification with others which previously made you feel safe and secure. (Hopefully, this process of separation will not involve actual physical parting from those you love.)

    But it does.

    But if it does, it could mean that such a relationship has fulfilled its purpose.

    The most painful issue you may now be facing is a profound and archetypal sense of aloneness.


    tranquil says
    Chiron return in the 8th house
    Neptune rules your 8th house


    My Response:
    I think Chiron takes 50.75 years to complete its transit around the natal chart.
    I'm approximately 50.75 years old. My dad left me on my Chiron return.


    tranquil says:
    Sun Neptune opposition straddles your 4th and 10th houses shows around family/parent/father.

    My Response:
    Saturn at my IC, at my 4th house speaks to my experience of losing my my father.
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    Jan 04, 2013 3:43 AM GMT
    psblond saidMy condolences. Also lost my Dad this year [at 98], gradually losing the last of his generation icon_sad.gif


    psblond,

    Thank you. I'm sorry for your loss.

    Yes, we can sense the loss of a generation, the spirit of their times, gone.
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    Jan 04, 2013 3:45 AM GMT
    TonyD saidMy condolences
    Good for you in finding an avenue to express yourself.


    Well, I hadn't planned on doing this, but finding out another spiritual father of mine 1984-2000, Rev. Arthur Caliandro died two days after my dad made me communicate.
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    Jan 04, 2013 3:50 AM GMT
    sanjose408 saidI'm sorry for your loss. Hope you're OK.


    I'm only slightly OK: OK with the reasonable feelings given the situation.

    It's a qualified OK, okay?
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    Jan 04, 2013 3:53 AM GMT
    minox saidSorry for your loss (hug)


    Thank you minox.

    May your hug let me know, in my community of gay-bi men, I get your hug when there is no man of our kind physically present to hold me/hug me.
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    Jan 04, 2013 3:55 AM GMT
    Pacha and bri_66,

    Thank you.
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    Jan 04, 2013 3:56 AM GMT
    I almost lost my father to cancer around Christmas so I know what you are going through. I lost 2 neighbors in the same week recently from alcohol effects. They were friends. Tragic holidays for a lot of people it seems.
  • Karl

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    Jan 04, 2013 3:58 AM GMT
    Sorry for your loss.
    My thoughts are with you and your family.
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    Jan 04, 2013 3:59 AM GMT
    Blakes7 saidSorry about your father, mine died last year also. I used to listen to Arthur Caliandro on the radio until he retired. Good man. God Bless. icon_neutral.gif


    While I sit here thinking of what to write, finally, Hamlet's grief comes to mind.

    Hamlet was one of my favorite Shakespearean plays.
    My dad used to drive me to and from the Speech & Debate tournaments where I would compete in various categories, even performing scenes from Hamlet.

    Blakes7,

    OMG, Blakes7, you used to listen to one of my spiritual fathers.

    Okay, I spent some time in the Catholic education system. Many of my teachers were called Father _____.
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    Jan 06, 2013 1:38 PM GMT
    After one week, I'm removing the picture of my dad (when he was younger than 83) and the picture of me at his internment last week.
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    Jan 12, 2013 4:16 PM GMT
    Question:
    The Sun seems to be the solar system object (SSO) representing the father.
    When and to what degree should wise Saturn enter into the picture of the father?

    Answer (first to me, second to another person whose father died when he was a child):

    The perspective I have (which isn't fixed and subject to modification), is that Saturn is symbolic of Paternalism, that broader parenting which ensures we all behave in a civilized manner and play well with others. That larger-than-life Pater Familias, filters down through the personal parent (represented by the Sun). Saturn may show up in unspoken rules and traditional expectations such as: "now you have to be the Man of the House". Which is very common for a young boy to be told when the father has died. (Similarly when it is the other parent who dies young, the eldest daughter is expected to fill her shoes with mothering the younger siblings.)

    My understanding of Saturn is: there are expectations of knowing what to do, the role you have to fill without the benefit of being told or having received adequate preparation for taking up that mantle.

    When the same-gender parent is absent in the developmental years of the native, ideally another elder in the extended family will step up with providing guidance. This is where the Saturn-structure of 'godfather' and 'godmother' is not a redundant tradition.


    # # #

    In the same forum thread, someone inserted this quote:

    A man who has lost his father, and who has Venus or Neptune or the Moon in the 4th, may seek the qualities of the father in women. Or if he is gay, he may seek them in another man...
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    Jan 12, 2013 4:19 PM GMT
    StephenOABC said

    In the same forum thread, someone inserted this quote:

    A man who has lost his father, and who has Venus or Neptune or the Moon in the 4th, may seek the qualities of the father in women. Or if he is gay, he may seek them in another man...


    In the natal chart in a higher post in this forum thread is a natal chart with Neptune in the fourth house.
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    Jan 26, 2013 9:52 PM GMT
    A song the Marble Collegiate Church (NYC) choir under the direction of Ken Dake sang at the service of celebration for Dr. Arthur Caliandro (1933-2012).

    The live-streamed service just ended at 5th Avenue and 29th Street in Manhattan.

    "Remember" by Stephen Chatman

    Remember me when I am gone away,

    Gone far away into the silent land;

    When you can no more hold me by the hand.
    Nor I half turn to go yet turning stay.

    Remember me when no more day by day
    You tell me of our future that you plann’d:
    Only remember me;

    you understand
    It will be late to counsel then or pray.

    Yet if you should forget me for a while
    And afterwards remember, do not grieve:

    For if the darkness and corruption leave
    A vestige of the thoughts that once I had,
    Better by far you should forget and smile
    Than that you should remember and be sad.
    — Christina Rossetti